Revelation; The two witnesses

reply to post by DISRAELI

Disraeli,

Rev. 11: is a very end time prophecy, verse 1 reveals the fact that judgement comes first to those who have called on Him for salvation. Measuring up those in the churches and have claimed Him and do to some extent worship Him.

Verse two then those outside who have never come to him are going to get a wake up call for 42 mos. literal time to place them in His or the destroyers camp literally. And literally they do in blastphemy etc. curse the throne of God which is the Heavenly Jerusaleum. The two witnesses may well be the 144,000 and they go out as His witnesses in humility and will take all kinds of abuse, you name it. These are armed with the oil, the Holy Spirit, "two olive tree" and the two candlesticks, His Word to us, the old and new Testaments. And many miracles will be done by them without doubt, it is the last witness to rebelling mankind. When their witness is completed it is clear the beast out of the bottomless pit kills them, not long though and they are vindicated as their bodies lay only 3-1/2 days and are not buried.

There is much I would add but am not sure it would be fruitful here. I must add these prophecies all tie in to each other and substantiate each other, prophecy is a beautiful and rewarding study and proves our God, Yahweh, Yahshua are who and what He says he is Knowing the end from the beginning, perfectly!

Being His is not gaulding in no way shape or form, we find ourselves freed from Satan's Prison house instead.

Truth is a precious gem and we must have it and have it on every point.

Truthiron









g

Hmmm this thread is kind of disappointing (perhaps because your others are so good). The theory here is that the two witnesses could be anybody and they could die anywhere. Or did I miss something?

Originally posted by jjkenobi
The theory here is that the two witnesses could be anybody and they could die anywhere. Or did I miss something?

Anybody in the church, anyway. I saw them as representing the church where it has to stand up against the Beast.
Taking items symbolically rather than literally is one of my standard practices; I did it a couple of threads before this one when I was looking at the sealing of the 144,000. I'm sorry you were disappointed, but I think that shows how much the idea of a literal two witnesses appeals to you.

reply to post by DISRAELI
we could speculate on and on who the two witnesses are, but one thing that should be pointed out, is that they will be seen by all, will cnn be the first to cover this? or will a 20/20 host be consumed by fire? Will there body's be seen dragged through the streets live? Will they show them come back to life, to be taken up, this is the clue as to who they are what two in old test and in new, were taken up? to make this clear one from the old testament, one from the new.

Originally posted by bekod
we could speculate on and on who the two witnesses are, but one thing that should be pointed out, is that they will be seen by all, will cnn be the first to cover this?

In the view outlined in the OP, there would be many of them dying all over the world, in different times and places.
Then the world at large would know what was happening. I think that would be enough to meet the text.

reply to post by bekod


They will not be seen by all

Luke 4: 25But I tell you of a truth, many widows were in Israel in the days of Elias, when the heaven was shut up three years and six months, when great famine was throughout all the land;

26But unto none of them was Elias sent, save unto Sarepta, a city of Sidon, unto a woman that was a widow.

27And many lepers were in Israel in the time of Eliseus the prophet; and none of them was cleansed, saving Naaman the Syrian.

The teacher and the student, the one who gives and the one who receives. These are the only witnesses to the Word of God.

reply to post by iamnot

I now add a link to my more recent thread on the first chapter of Revelation, which sets the tone for the whole book.
Fear Not

Originally posted by truthiron
Verse two then those outside who have never come to him are going to get a wake up call for 42 mos. literal time to place them in His or the destroyers camp literally. And literally they do in blastphemy etc. curse the throne of God which is the Heavenly Jerusaleum. The two witnesses may well be the 144,000 and they go out as His witnesses in humility and will take all kinds of abuse, you name it.

I don't see the 42 months as a literal time period, but as a symbolic one. This is brought out in my later "time, times and half a time" thread,.
I agree with the two witnesses being the 144,000, except that I don't take the second number literally either.

many have been called to witness, in Spirit, and in Truth. God is furious and His cup of anger overflows and is ready to be poured out on the nations. It is the sin, the lawlessness, the lack of regard and love for your fellow man in the spirit of Cain, it is the abortion, the war, the corruption, the hedonism, materialism, atheism, homosexuality, and all sorts of sexual perversion and blasphemy. God is not happy with our response to the MOST generous offering of His blameless Son, Jesus the Christ, who SUFFERED, and shed blood and water from His pierced heart that we might be made Holy in Him. Most of all God is ready to pour out judgement upon those whom He has called to be faithful followers who have turned from Him and His ways and have partaken in the cup of the blood of the Saints which the great Harlot Babylon. Repent from your sins and pray you who call yourselves faithful in Christ, pray that God in His Power and Mercy would use the coming woes to convert and save as many as possible! Have faith, and trust in the Lord, when you are tempted look to the Cross of Christ and contemplate His suffering, and His love and goodness which is so clear, and ask, do I want to cause this any more than I have? Foster a sincere sorrow for your sins, and thank Jesus for all that He has done, does, and will do to make things right! Fast and perform works of charity in union with the Unblemished Lamb of God, the Perfect Sacrifice, for the reperation of sins and the salvation of Humanity. You all worry so much about preparing yourselves physically, but never taking the time to prepare spiritually! This is primarilly a spiritual battle and the consequences and woes we see which have fallen upon the world are a punishment from God. First will be the revolutions, unrest, rebellions, and wars which will originate from the Earth, these are the inevitable ends of thinking we as Creatures can exist apart from our Creator; the second punishment will come from Heaven, and those who refuse to repent will be thrown away like chaff and never remembered in Heaven. How much time we have only the Father knows, but know that the hour is near, so trim your candles and let your light shine! Fellow watchmen be vigalent and pray, have faith, and be bold in the Spirit! Preach the Gospel, the cross of Christ, and do not be deceived by the lying spirits who only seek confusion, disorder, chaos, and death! This is what we have chosen, and God respects our free will. We are merely suffering the inevitable consequences. We were created by God and for God, but we have turned from Him! Woe unto you, and woe unto me! For I was called but fell back into sin, but praise be to God almighty who in His patience, love, and wisdom has seen fit for me to be brought back from a most disastrous path! Do not give in to the spirit of rebellion and lawlessness, and realize that we need God! What you are experiencing is growing pains as we had a painful, costly, and convicting lesson to be learned that we might know that God knows what is best for us, and wants what is best for us, but that we didn't trust Him, nor did we wish to resignate ourselves to His will. It was a test of love, or suffer the consequences of life without Love; God is love! Pray for our leaders and for those who have been deceived by the Devil himself! Would you care to take their place and know their temptations? The temptations these elitists have been confronted with is not far different from the temptation of Christ in the desert when He was brought to the top of a very high mountain and shown the kingdoms of the world in an instant, and offered the power to rule over them all for a time if only He would bow down and worship the Serpent! Pray for these leaders, that God would give us Just Judges, and Prudent, Holy, and Righteous leaders after His own heart! Nevertheless the things which are to come are those which have been written, and more! My fellow believers do not be disheartened or disenfranchised and remain firmly rooted in Christ through it all and you shall be granted a crown. Google Three Days of Darkness, and prepare!

pps: don't ever trust any movements, leaders, or even what appears to be a voice of truth which might suggests that we can save ourselves from our sins. This is the path that seems right to man, but in the end leads to death. Even with the right motivation of Justice and Righteousness, apart from God, it is a way which seems right but continues to lead us to the apex.

reply to post by mrphilosophias

Thank you for that contribution.
Yes, it is a spiritual battle.
This thread is one of a long series in Revelation, now drawing towards a close.
You may be interested in looking at the others, which you will find in my profile.

the neo paganism and seeming prevalence of the Gnostics in our modern times are a sign; it is becoming much like the world was before Christ came in the flesh. As it was in the days of Noah...

reply to post by mrphilosophias

Yes. you'll find gnostics on this site as well.
I get some of them trying to influence my interpretation.

reply to post by DISRAELI


would you send me a PM as I can't send them because I don't have enough posts.

They are two actual people. They are alive now. The internet is how they accomplish the things that seem impossible for two actual people to accomplish. You must see how the internet makes things possible that seem impossible. How could bodies lay in one street but be seen by the whole world? Easy with the internet.

reply to post by AtConspiracyDude

What is your reason for saying they are alive now?
Do you have their identities?

Following the suggestions that the "two witnesses" might be the two Testaments, or "The Law and the Prophets";
This lists the "Law" passages quoted on this Revelation series.
The numbers in yellow identify (on a different list) the threads where the quotations can be found.

Genesis

ch3 Tree of Life------4,41
ch4 v10 Blood of Abel------9
ch37 v9 Joseph's dream ------22

Exodus

ch9 v14 Boils------16,31
ch9 v23 Hail------16
ch15 Song of Moses------13
ch15 v12 Earth swallowed------24
ch19 v4 On eagles' wings------5,24
ch19 v6 Kingdom of priests------1,5
ch24 vv9-11 The elders------5

Leviticus

ch17 v11 Life is in the blood------9

Numbers

ch5 vv11-28 Waters of bitterness------16
ch25 vv1-3 Shiittim------3
ch25 vv12-13 Eleazar------12

Deuteronomy

ch13 vv13-14 Abominations------34
ch23 v18 Abominations------34
ch27 v15 Abominations------34

Judges

ch2 vv11-14 The sins of Israel------11

1 Kings

ch10 v9 Solomon-666------27
ch11 v4 Solomon idolatry------27
ch11 v5 Abominations------34

2 Kings

ch1 v10 Elijah- fire from heaven------26
ch9 v22 Jezebel------3
ch17 v7 The sins of Israel------11
ch23 v29 Megiddo------32

Ezra

ch9 v3 Desolated------20

Job

ch2 v9 Curse God------31
ch3 vv20-26 Wanting to die------17,31

Psalms

Ps 2v2 Nations rage------34
Ps 2v9 Rod of iron------4,22
Ps 8vv4-5 What is man?------5
Ps 24v8 Lord of Hosts-----39
Ps 33 God looks down from Heaven------5
Ps 68v17 Host accompanies------18
Ps 79 How long?------9
Ps 91vv5-6 Arrows, pestilence------8
Ps 96v1 Sing a new song------13
Ps 96v11 Heaven, earth, and sea------24
Ps 96v13 He judges with righteousness------39

Proverbs

ch6 vv11-18 Abominations------34

reply to post by DISRAELI

Following the suggestions that the "two witnesses" might be "the Law and the Prophets";
This lists the passages from the Prophets quoted in this series.
The numbers in yellow identify (on a different list) the threads where the quotations can be found.

Isaiah

ch1 v12 You trample on my courts------21
ch2 v19 Flight into caves------10
ch6 vv1-5 Vision of God------5
ch11 v4 Rod of Jesse------1
ch13 vv20-22 Babylon uninhabited------38
ch14 v12 Fallen from heaven------23
ch21 v9 Babylon is fallen------38
ch25 v8 God will swallow up death------13,41
ch34 v4 Heavens roll up------10
ch38 v14 Joy and gladness------41
ch40 v2 Jerusalem pardoned------38
ch44 vv2-6 Fear not------1
ch46 Bel bows down------34
ch47 vv7-8 Babylon self-confident------38
ch49 v2 My mouth a sharp sword------1,39
ch49 v14 Will guide them by springs------13
ch51 v1 Water without price------41
ch60 v11,vv19-20 New Jerusalem------41
ch62 v4 A new name------3
ch63 v3 Bloody garments------39
ch63 v18 They have trodden down the sanctuary------21

Jeremiah

ch3 v9 Adulteries of Israel------33
ch4 v4 The sins of Jerusalem------11
ch4 vv23-29 Earth quakes, men flee------10,11
ch4 v30 Harlot Jerusalem------22,33
ch4 v31 Jerusalem in travail------22,33
ch5 v14 My words a fire in your mouth-----21
ch9 vv14-15 Wormwood------16
ch15 v2 Four fates-----11,29
ch25 v10 Joys lost-----38
ch25 vv15-16 Cup of wrath------33
ch31 vv33-34 New covenant------19
ch46 v8 Egypt sends a flood------24
ch49 v36 Four winds------5,12
ch50 v38 Babylon river dries up-----31
ch51 v25 Babylon-burnt mountain-----16
ch51 vv7-8 Babylon-cup of wrath------34,38
ch51 v9 Babylon's judgement reaches heaven------38
ch51 v45 Leave Babylon------38
ch51 v63 Dropping the stone------38

Ezekiel

ch1 Vision of God------5,19
ch3 Eating the scroll-----19
ch5 vv16-17 Four fates-----11
ch9 vv4-6 Marked for God-----12
ch13 vv18-19 Trading in souls-----38
ch14 v21 Four fates------11
ch16 Adulterous Israel------33
ch23 vv32-33 Cup of wrath------34
chs 26&27 Tyre------38
ch29 v3 Egypt a dragon----24
ch37 v37 God dwells with his people-----41
ch39 Gog of Magog------39,40
ch40 Measuring the Temple------20,21,41
ch43 The Lord returns to the Temple------20,21,41
ch47 The stream from the Temple------41

Daniel

ch7 Four kingdoms------25,36
ch7 v10 Accompanied by host----18
ch7 v11 Beast destroyed------39
ch7 v12 Other kingdoms prolonged------40
ch7 vv13-14 One like a son of man------1
ch9 v27 Half a week------15,24
ch10 Vision of man of bronze-----1
ch11 v30 Rome annoys Antiochus------36
ch11 v31, vv36-37 Abomination that makes desolate------20
ch12 v1 Book of Life------39
ch12 v7 A time, two times, and half a time------15,19,24

Hosea

ch1 vv8-9 New name-----4
ch2 v5 Adultery of Israel------33
ch2 vv11-15 Reconciled------24
ch2 v19 Bethrothed----- 41
ch10 v8 Fall on us!-----10

Joel

chs1&2 Locusts------10,11
ch2 vv10-11 Day of the Lord------10,11
ch2 v31 Sun darkened-----10
ch3 vv5-6 Tyre sells into slavery-----38
ch3 vv11-14 Dayof the Lord, valley of judgement------32,39
ch3 v13 Harvest------30

Micah

ch4 v10 Jerusalem in travail------22
ch5 v3 The birth------22

Zephaniah

ch3 v13 No deceit found in them------13

Zechariah

ch1 Four horses------7
ch3 Satan against Joshua------23
ch3 v9 White stone------3
ch4 v10 Seven eyes------1,6
ch4 v14 Olive trees------21
ch5 vv5-11 The woman of Wickedness------38
ch6 Four horses, four winds------5,7
ch12 v10 Mourning over the pierced one------1

Malachi

ch4v1 The day of burning------1

Following the suggestions that the "two witnesses" might be the two Testaments;
This lists the passages from the New Testament which have been quoted in this series.
The yellow numbers identify the threads (as numbered on another list) which have made the quotations.

Matthew

ch10 35 Confess them before the Father------4
ch18 v6 Millstone------38
ch18 v10 Their angels are in Heaven------13
ch21 v5 Mounted on an ass------39
23v35 Guilt for bloodshed------38
ch24 v5 False christs------26
ch24 v43 When the thief comes------32
ch25 v30 Outer darkness------39
ch25 v31 Son of man sits in judgement------39
26 v52 Will perish by the sword------29

Mark

ch4 v17 if anyone has an ear------29

Luke

ch10 v18 Satan falling------23
ch21 v24 Jerusalem trodden by gentiles------20,21

John

ch1 v29 Lamb takes away sin------23
ch4 v14 Spring of eternal life------41
ch5 v24 Believer has eternal Life------13,40
ch6 vv49-51 Living bread------4

Acts

ch17 v30 God calls world to repentance------11
ch19 Diana of the Ephesians------34

Romans

ch8 v1 No condemnation------4
ch3 v23 All have sinned------39
ch13 vv2-4 Rulers appointed by God------25

1 Corinthians

ch3 v16 You are God's Temple------20
ch6 v9 Will not inherit the kingdom------41
ch 6 v12 Self-confidence------3
ch8 v1 Self-confidence------3
ch10 vv8-9,v20 Immorality------3
ch10 v17 One bread, one body------20
ch11 v26 We proclaim the Lord's death until he comes------20

2 Corinthians

ch1 vv21-22 Sealed with the Spirit------12

Ephesians

ch1 vv13-14 Sealed with the Spirit------12
ch2 v6 Sitting with Christ in Heaven------22,40
ch5 vv23-27 Bride of Christ------41

Galatians

ch3 v27 Clothed in Christ------32
ch4 vv25-26 Two Jerusalems------33

1 Thessalonians

ch5 vv2-6 Like a thief------32

2 Thessalonians

ch1 vv7-8 Jesus comes in judgement------39
ch1 v9 Eternal destruction------40
ch2 v4 Man of sin------20
ch4 v13 Always with the Lord------40

Hebrews

ch1 v1 God speaks------27
ch4 v12 Word sharper than a sword------1

1 Peter

ch3 v20 Eight in ark-----35
ch4 v12 Facing a fiery ordeal------36
ch5 v13 Those living in Babylon------36

2 Peter

ch2 v5 Eight in ark------35
ch3 v10 The elements dissolve------39,40

1 John

ch2 v18 Antichrists------26

and the three days of darkness are catholic prophecy.....which dates the tribulation much later than these days we are in now....God sent three days of darkness against the Egyptians near the end of a series of sufferings whose purpose was to free the Israelites from slavery. Similarly, God will send three days of darkness on the whole world at the end of a long series of sufferings, that is, when the first part of the tribulation ends (late 2039 or early 2040). The purpose is, at least in part, to free the faithful from the slavery of sin and to bring the world into a time of relative peace and holiness.
....the prophecy from the catholics goes into great detail and promotes the newly popular again in protestant churches....Mary worship... which i personally do not practice. i'm whole Bible.

reply to post by GBP/JPY


I certainly agree with you about the not practising worship of Mary