reply to post by mohammed_nz
well i think you raise a good point. Fair enough, people will always ask for proofs and miracles. And I think God provides miracles to every human
beings so they have no excuse.
Ok, show me those miracles. I’d love to believe in something if every single person on the planet has proof of it.
I will not tell you about the creation of the universe, or even science is now starting to admit the idea of intelligent design.
Because the first is something the entirety of humanity only has an inkling about and the second is an outright falsehood, but at least you’re not
If you specialize in a subject, maybe its easier to see. am an electrical engineer, and the amazing thing is, when scientists and engineers go about
designing/discovering something, its already there, just waiting to be discovered.
I believe you mean that it’s rare for new data or inventions to go against the established order of the universe, which means we can predict how
things will act to a certain degree (because we haven’t cracked the base code of the universe)
I mean when they look at how electrons and electricity and conduction etc etc behaves, its amazing, its as they expect it to be,
Yes, because we created lovely theories and hypotheses and tested them until the best one came about that predicted a plethora of things about
electricity. It’s a long stretch from when we used to think that electricity was a fluid. Yep, we used to. Think about the way we describe it: it
flows and has a current. Those are things you say about a liquid, but we didn’t know better when we named ot.
its been designed that way, and without that design already in place, it would be impossible to analyze, much less use.
Now you’re making a massive leap in logic that has absolutely no rational basis within the post or anywhere.
You’re stating that for something to be analyzed or used it must have an intentional design from a rational being. Please find a way to support this
hypothesis, as I find no reason to accept it at face value.
Thats one miracle that people should really consider. Ppl tend to think that humans are inventing things, but the truth is actually the ground works
and the basics are in place, we just manipulate them.
Of course, we’re not talking about the fabric of reality; we’re just finding new uses for the stuff that’s strewn across the universe. But then
there’s the fact that we can actually conceive of things outside of the concept of our universe, we create fiction. There’s also language.
Language an entire abstract, it’s not there in any way shape or form in the universe, but we birthed it into being to use it ourselves.
think about what made the original design/behavior (ad please dont even mention random. the chances of these things being random might be there, but
its so small its almost zero).
I’ve proved to you before that the chances of any game of five card stud poker happening in any way is near zero, and that’s just working with a
stack of 52 cards and five people.
I also brought up the point that you have yet to provide a probability that is apparently much higher that a divine being interfered. You can’t
shout about the probability of an event happening making it unlikely without showing that another event has a much higher mathematical probability.
But ah, people still need to see more solid proof.
THERE IS SOLID PROOF. Are you ready to see it though or do you just do these posts for the sake of them?
Yay, this might just be the hundredth time I’ve heard this, possibly higher. I don’t do these posts for the sake of them, I do them to prove
there’s no logical reason to believe in a deity.
Solid Proofs is simply the Quran. It has three enduring miracles that every human beings gets to see if they look into it, so that NO ONE is excused.
I will list them in the order that makes sense to you, but unfortunately that happens to be in reverse order in terms of importance.
Oh, the old ‘holy book’ argument, this one never gets old. Let me just prep some popcorn.
1) Scientific Proofs: In our day and age, science is the bench mark. the Quran is simply full of scientific explanations. few simple examples of the
top of my head, but by no means comprehensive (keep in mind the Quran was revealed around 700AD and written about 750-800AD, sorry I dont know the
exact dates but they are close)
It’s ok, but next time I suggest simply doing a quick web search to come up with the dates after you’ve finished the post. We are
internet, no simple fact should elude us.
-quran talks about mountains being like pegs, and that they stabilise the earth.
Could you please provide a reference to the passages or possibly a link to an online Qu’ran for future posts? It would simply be easier to respond
to questions pertaining to them.
When did science discover that mountains are actually like pegs, and what you see on the surface is only a small part? when did science find out that
mountains do actually stabilise the earth? when I say the Quran mentions that, I do not say like a metaphor or a parable, I mean quite literally it is
said like that. Quran is not like the Bible or Torah, its different.
Science never discovered that mountains stabilize the Earth…in fact, it’s not a fact at all. I’ve been trying to look for it because it’s news
to me, but the only places I find that even mention this ‘fact’ are all places that seek to prove the Qu’ran to be full of miracles.
Now, if you analyze the amount of surface variation that mountains have with the rest of the Earth’s surface, you can calculate that it’s actually
less than the raised areas on a typical coin have with the flat surface of it. I don’t see how something so frankly insignificant could have any
effect on stabilizing the crust or the whole planet, but I can’t really address this ‘miracle’ without you giving me a proper scientific source
to look at and analyze alongside the portion of the Qu’ran you’re referencing.
-Quran talks about the area where two seas meet, and that they meet yet there is a barrier between them such that they do not mix. science recently
discovered that due to different salinity levels the seas do not actually mix.
There is hundreds more examples, but they are so common is the Quran that Muslims do not actually consider them a big deal. Look up 'Scientific
miracles in Quran', you will get hundreds of articles/videos.
Again, just as a matter of furthering the discussion, please provide me with a link to the portion of the Qu’ran you’re quoting.
Anyway, the Qu’ran makes an off-handed comment that two seas meet and do not mix so you’re going to gather from that single statement that it
means the authorship was talking about the effects on salinity in the mixing of water? Unless you’re going to give me a passage where the Qu’ran
mentions a purely scientific reason for it and doesn’t just throw an off-handed comment out, I’m going to have to just dismiss it as a lucky guess
unless you’re going to provide the science to back it up.
2) The Quran has stayed the same since the day it was written to this day. You will not find two different versions of it. It has been preserved in
the original language (Arabic), thus it has not been tampered with even by one letter, fulfilling Gods promise that this is his book, and he will
preserve it to the end of times (As the Bible and Torah have been modified/changed over the years, and now you can see many different contradicting
versions of them, the quran is preserved so each man can see the truth for himself).
How is that a miracle of any sort? That’s just rigorous prevention of editing… Also, do we have a first edition of the Qu’ran? It’s one thing
to make the claim that it’s unchanged if we do, because that’s the only way you can prove the Qu’ran has been unchanged. But without a first
edition to refer to, how would we know?
3) This is the biggest miracle of all. Unfortunately you would have to be a native speaker of the language of the quran to appreciate it. Although
there has been successful attempts at conveying the miracle to non arabic speakers, the true impact of it is never fully appreciated.
Well, I’m a speaker of a language similar to Arabic (Maltese), so it might be possible for me to understand.
U must first understand that at 700AD when the Quran was revealed, there was no science,
Now you’re either misinformed or outright lying. There has been science since at least 3500 BCE, when the Sumerians started looking at the world and
recording their observations. We have a detailed history of plenty of science between 3500 BCE and the rise of Islam, here’s
(Wikipedia link) en.wikipedia.org...
so the miracle at that time had to be different. The Arabs back then were known for their linguistic prowess. They were great poets and story
Um…they were? Can I have a source on that?
So to show them a miracle, the quran was revealed in such a way that it blew them away. No matter how hard they tried and try they did, they could not
come up with anything like it. It was written in such a way, the sentence structure was amazing, the paragraphs and flow were like never seen (and
like still never seen).
That could just mean that the Earthly author was a damn good author…but it’s also a moot point. Something being well written isn’t a miracle.
They use this exact same argument with the Bible and it’s equally useless there.