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Originally posted by JesusisTruth
that's funny, science huh. science has been used to prove certain miracles in the church.
as for madness.
madness Iv'e been studying your post for a while, and this is my opinion. I like to think of you as a fencer. You keep God a possibility in the back of your mind but will never embrace faith.
Proof will be given to you shortly, actually all of us shortly. because imo every soul on this website will live to see WW3.
Until then there is nothing we can say or do to persuade you, it's up to each individual soul to believe by the things we see around us including the miracles and the complexity of nature.
Because even when we die, the unsincere soul can say to God. ' how do I now you are God '
proof involves faith but it also involves trust.
Like my grandmother who seen christ in her bedroom, she's an incredibly sane and normal very religious woman. I could not believe her but I know her heart, she doesn't lie, and why would she.
or my aunt who had one month to live and was cured by prayer, no medication from late stage cancer.
like saint gemma who bled the stigmata daily and in the sight of people would have normal hands and then bleed in their presence out of nowhere.
like my signature. eucharist of laciano italy tested by science.
But scoffers can always try to find loop holes. it's where the souls sincerity lies.
the soul that wants a God will most likely emrbrace them
the soul that doesn't want God to be real, usually can never be convinced.
Originally posted by MechanicalSunrise
There is no proof for the existance of a god/creator. Religious people make desperate attempts to claim they have proof, but it's always torn apart by science.
well i think you raise a good point. Fair enough, people will always ask for proofs and miracles. And I think God provides miracles to every human beings so they have no excuse.
I will not tell you about the creation of the universe, or even science is now starting to admit the idea of intelligent design.
If you specialize in a subject, maybe its easier to see. am an electrical engineer, and the amazing thing is, when scientists and engineers go about designing/discovering something, its already there, just waiting to be discovered.
I mean when they look at how electrons and electricity and conduction etc etc behaves, its amazing, its as they expect it to be,
its been designed that way, and without that design already in place, it would be impossible to analyze, much less use.
Thats one miracle that people should really consider. Ppl tend to think that humans are inventing things, but the truth is actually the ground works and the basics are in place, we just manipulate them.
think about what made the original design/behavior (ad please dont even mention random. the chances of these things being random might be there, but its so small its almost zero).
But ah, people still need to see more solid proof.
THERE IS SOLID PROOF. Are you ready to see it though or do you just do these posts for the sake of them?
Solid Proofs is simply the Quran. It has three enduring miracles that every human beings gets to see if they look into it, so that NO ONE is excused. I will list them in the order that makes sense to you, but unfortunately that happens to be in reverse order in terms of importance.
1) Scientific Proofs: In our day and age, science is the bench mark. the Quran is simply full of scientific explanations. few simple examples of the top of my head, but by no means comprehensive (keep in mind the Quran was revealed around 700AD and written about 750-800AD, sorry I dont know the exact dates but they are close)
-quran talks about mountains being like pegs, and that they stabilise the earth.
When did science discover that mountains are actually like pegs, and what you see on the surface is only a small part? when did science find out that mountains do actually stabilise the earth? when I say the Quran mentions that, I do not say like a metaphor or a parable, I mean quite literally it is said like that. Quran is not like the Bible or Torah, its different.
-Quran talks about the area where two seas meet, and that they meet yet there is a barrier between them such that they do not mix. science recently discovered that due to different salinity levels the seas do not actually mix.
There is hundreds more examples, but they are so common is the Quran that Muslims do not actually consider them a big deal. Look up 'Scientific miracles in Quran', you will get hundreds of articles/videos.
2) The Quran has stayed the same since the day it was written to this day. You will not find two different versions of it. It has been preserved in the original language (Arabic), thus it has not been tampered with even by one letter, fulfilling Gods promise that this is his book, and he will preserve it to the end of times (As the Bible and Torah have been modified/changed over the years, and now you can see many different contradicting versions of them, the quran is preserved so each man can see the truth for himself).
3) This is the biggest miracle of all. Unfortunately you would have to be a native speaker of the language of the quran to appreciate it. Although there has been successful attempts at conveying the miracle to non arabic speakers, the true impact of it is never fully appreciated.
U must first understand that at 700AD when the Quran was revealed, there was no science,
so the miracle at that time had to be different. The Arabs back then were known for their linguistic prowess. They were great poets and story tellers.
So to show them a miracle, the quran was revealed in such a way that it blew them away. No matter how hard they tried and try they did, they could not come up with anything like it. It was written in such a way, the sentence structure was amazing, the paragraphs and flow were like never seen (and like still never seen).
To an english speaker, imagine if you heard the most beautiful poem or song, that was so well written, and so well structured (and keep in mind that the arabic language is very very rule heavy and strict, much more than the english language).
Now if the Quran was in english, it would be 100 times better than the best written peom or song or story.
To analyse its use of words and grammatical structure is the work of thick volumes of books, and people that devoted an entire life for that matter.
it would put Shakespeare to shame.
Its so well written that modern day arabs struggle to fully come to terms with it. Thus a large part of them never fully understand it. Yet the main message is very simple and clear. does not require special skills or knowledge to understand. Problem comes when you want to go deeper and fully appreciate it. And it was all uttered by an illiterate man that did not know how to read or write.
Those are the miracles you asked for. they are as clear as day light. whether you choose to screw your eyes shut and not see them is up to you.
but I will tell you something, when you talk to an ex atheist, the first thing they say is they cant believe they did not see these things before, they were more involved in the hate ofreligion that they could not see it for what it truly was.
please dont start bashing the quran or muslims. if you doubt what i say read for yourself.
if you really want to bash any way, i could point you to a couple of websites that you would love. you will come out convinced that muslims did actually pull of 9/11.
and they probably killed jesus christ and JFK too lol.
Originally posted by JesusisTruth
madness you are so hardheaded, you missed the ENTIRE baises for my reply.
so i'll respond to these two and say nomore about it in this thread.
Back to the old routine it seems. This is the part where, like in the past, I ask you to provide instances of science proving the miracles of the Church. I've asked dozens of Christians both online and in my life to provide it to me, but it's never been done.
So, show me the money. [MIMS]
Ok how much you want, five dollars, three, I got silver dollars too. the tests in the italy eucharist miracle were taken directly from the eucharist, held for days and tested. It's not from a peasant woman. That flesh has stayed intact for 120 years in Italy.
again, it's impossible to prove anything because imo you don't want to believe so you say it's this and that and don't have trust even when there are documented amazing facts about certain miracles.
I've been hearing that WW3 will come soon every year since I joined ATS nearly 5 years ago. Nothings happened yet, and I doubt any war would provide proof of a deity.
Yea well give it some time. The illuminati and freemasons have their timetable. they created 9/11 and they will create more. But you miss the point. The war will proivde proof because 1 third of humanity will die off, hoping not you, but if you go, you will come face to face with the one I know exist. Not to mention christs second coming.
time will do my talking. Until then believe what you will.
Originally posted by JesusisTruth
one more thing to say here. It's impossible to give proof about God because he's not seeable.
Yet he was seeable to saints and prophets and worked miracles in their lives. So imo the OP is a circular exhibition that will go asolutely nowhere.
just to warn the repliers to this thread.
like I said God ask for faith and trust in this life and through that saints seen God in ecstacy.
without a hint of faith, you will never have proof madness until you die and are in eternal seperation.
I feel that the best test to determine whether or not you really believe that absolute moral laws exist, is not whether you feel that atrocities like rape and child molestation could be right somewhere in the universe, but whether they could ever be right if perpetrated against you or someone you love. Please keep in mind, I am asking what YOU believe, not what you think anyone else believes.
Button 1: Molesting children for fun is absolutely morally wrong
Button 2: Molesting children for fun is not absolutely morally wrong
Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
Let's take a better example to look at the existence of an absolute morality:
You have a train going down a track and it will hit 10 people, you are at a railroad switch that could divert the train to a different track. On the second track there are 9 people, on the third track there are 8, on the fourth there are 7.
Which of these choices is the absolute moral choice?
Well, if you don't hit the switch, 10 people will die from your inaction, but if you hit the switch at least 7 people will die from your direct action.
There is no directly moral choice, only a choice that is simply more moral than the others.