Lodge Was open, nobody cared....

reply to post by tigpoppa

And thats OK too. If you cant sit still for an hour, OK. If you have no tolerance for history and/or tradition, thats OK too. Others enjoy this type of thing. Again, its not for everyone. Nobody is obligated to participate let alone even observe. The door has a tyler to restrict
admission, but not egress. See, others than yourself enjoy tradition and history. So we participate. Otherwise, we leave.I feel that my church's ritual and procedure is archaic and tedious, but I attend church too. Business meeting also, I observe the work or business "ritual " and process. But I can leave my work meetings also. There is a door. There is always a door.If you have left Masonry for the reasons you stated,thats fine.. But remember,others do have different opinions,even outside of ATS.

Originally posted by scooterstrats
reply to post by tigpoppa

 

And thats OK too. If you cant sit still for an hour, OK. If you have no tolerance for history and/or tradition, thats OK too. Others enjoy this type of thing. Again, its not for everyone. Nobody is obligated to participate let alone even observe. The door has a tyler to restrict
admission, but not egress. See, others than yourself enjoy tradition and history. So we participate. Otherwise, we leave.I feel that my church's ritual and procedure is archaic and tedious, but I attend church too. Business meeting also, I observe the work or business "ritual " and process. But I can leave my work meetings also. There is a door. There is always a door.If you have left Masonry for the reasons you stated,thats fine.. But remember,others do have different opinions,even outside of ATS.

I know other people have different opinions. That is why their stuck the way they are with these long ceremonies. I mean seriously some meetings can take 3 or 4 hours!!! who wants to sit through that! I should be attending church but at least that is only 45 mins to an hour. Not only that I can wear normal clothes and not a tuxedo which is VERY HOT! I know some people love history but come on it can be altered and changed. I am not talking about the degrees I am talking about the general meetings. I do not care about all that, its silly pageantry why not just include reading the gettysburg address that is history and would take just as long. I am not a mason hater I am a mason. Thing is their meetings are boring and noone goes and I dont go so if they want to be relevant again they need to MAKE THEMSELVES relevant and not so boring.

Originally posted by Aeons
... Lose some camp. Keep your Fraternity. Lose the male-sponsorship. Elevate the Sorieties. Give people a message of works they can cleave to that makes their hearts full of light.

If you can do those five things, you can keep your system that works in the other cultures and appeal here.

Stop being old men, and just be men.

I guess this is the map you referred to. Some of it makes sense to this outsider, some not.

Why lose the male-sponsorship? Are you really trying to say it should be open to anyone or with formal requirements, like the US Tennis Association? Or it should be a male-organization that allows female sponsorship? I can't see why those would be improvements.

Elevate the "sorieties" -- I guess you mean the female auxiliary? If I join I don't think my wife would be interested anyway, so this is probably a non-issue for me.

Give people a message that works that they can cleave to ... well I'm not sure what you would improve. Their current message is something about making men better. That's a pretty decent message.

reply to post by Aeons


"list of works to persue" Really? Or peruse? Quit being pretentious when you cant even be successful in being pretentious.

Originally posted by scooterstrats
reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

 

Well Proto,you seem to be a swell guy also, but isn't my name at the top of the thread? And a second line just for giggles !

The Knights of Proto is a true evil secret society complete with code words and phrases...

Lodge Was Open = Knights of Proto
Nobody cared = Big event

So I do beg to differ, the title of the thread is clearly about the Knights of Proto.

It's alright though we have recipricol agreements with the other true evil secret societies, so yeah if Masonic recruiting is down, you can piggy back off the Knights of Proto thread.

I was just wondering if you were aware of what you were doing is all.

reply to post by tigpoppa


So we seem to agree to a point. Respectfully,you don't seem to appreciate history nor ritual. There is time involved. Hard to combine 300 years into a few minutes, an IM, or a text onto a cellphone. Some of us (and Im in my 40's not 90's) do have time to appreciate the history and meeting that involves more than 5 minutes . Dont own a suit? Dont need one. Just dont dress like you came from a frat party. Not sure where the problem is here. Honestly. We're all moslty civil here, but I'm getting confused.

Originally posted by tigpoppa
I know other people have different opinions. That is why their stuck the way they are with these long ceremonies. I mean seriously some meetings can take 3 or 4 hours!!! who wants to sit through that! I should be attending church but at least that is only 45 mins to an hour. Not only that I can wear normal clothes and not a tuxedo which is VERY HOT! I know some people love history but come on it can be altered and changed. I am not talking about the degrees I am talking about the general meetings. I do not care about all that, its silly pageantry why not just include reading the gettysburg address that is history and would take just as long. I am not a mason hater I am a mason. Thing is their meetings are boring and noone goes and I dont go so if they want to be relevant again they need to MAKE THEMSELVES relevant and not so boring.

I suppose all of the above depend on the lodge. In my lodge, the meetings are usually an hour. Could go a little longer if we're voting on a number of issues, or if we have to go through the list of items being voted on at Grand Lodge this year. In my lodge the dress code is at the discretion of the sitting WM, and in our case, only really applies to the officers, not the rest of the brethren. Then again, I know a local traditional observance lodge which is strictly black-tie. So it can vary from lodge to lodge quite a bit.

reply to post by tigpoppa


just to let you know that not everywhere is the same. We dress in shorts and t-shirts with flip-flops for stated meetings. Degrees we wear ties. since it is usually about 100 degrees in the summer, we don't worry about the dress. Attendance is much more important. We enjoy the meal and the fellowship. I don't do church, so this is my official fellowship. I have a great neighborhood with lots of friendly neighbors and quite a few of them are brothers. So I get to spend time with lodge brothers often.

I completely understand how you could get frustrated and sick of the regular lodge functions. I would say pace yourself. I hate to see anyone give up on anything they put that much work into. Another tip is to bring a suit with you when you travel and try to visit some other lodges. I enjoy being able to meet new people and masonry is a great tool for that function.

BTW, I have always loved your avitar.

reply to post by tigpoppa

Masons are not just doddering old men stuck in the past. We're starting to get younger and younger. We're also an institution that holds steadfast to our morals and principles, not giving into outcry.

The degrees cannot be cut down as they each one teach an important lesson. Why change what isn't broken?

reply to post by tigpoppa

Well, I'm all for cutting down the meetings and as Master we only had an average 1.5-hour Stated meeting time. Plus the degree nights, some ceremonies naturally take a long time, but the night is not about you, its about the candidate. You get out what you put into it.

When I sat as Master I had my officers dress up in suits, but for the Lodge I said if you are coming from work that is fine, but if you can dress nicely I would appreciate it. During the summer time, the dress code loosens slightly especially during the annual treks up to the historic Lodge buildings that don't have A/C.

We also sent out minutes before hand via email and also printed/distributed them before the meeting so come meeting time we just vote to approve them. We had a few family nights and game nights. We also did a open Table Lodge for our District meeting of which my Lodge was in charge of opening and closing. Overall, my year was to make the year fun, get the families involved, and work with the Youth Groups.

I say, go back to your Lodge, get involved. I brought in a few young people, they brought in some young people, and so on. It pyramided out and we're slowly changing the overall age group down to the 40s and 30s. Step up to leadership through which you will learn and improve yourself, not just in Freemasonry either. Get yourself involved and try to establish a more efficient way to run the meetings. Come up with ideas to bring more people in. Its so much easier to just give up and complain than put some effort into it and make the change happen, but the easier thing is not always the right thing to do.

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler

Originally posted by scooterstrats
reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

 

Well Proto,you seem to be a swell guy also, but isn't my name at the top of the thread? And a second line just for giggles !

The Knights of Proto is a true evil secret society complete with code words and phrases...

Lodge Was Open = Knights of Proto
Nobody cared = Big event

So I do beg to differ, the title of the thread is clearly about the Knights of Proto.

It's alright though we have recipricol agreements with the other true evil secret societies, so yeah if Masonic recruiting is down, you can piggy back off the Knights of Proto thread.

I was just wondering if you were aware of what you were doing is all.
Are you now done seeking attention?

[edit on 8/30/10 by scooterstrats]

Scooterstrats,

I'm sorry to hear that you didn't get any visitors. Here in So. Cal. where I live the Scottish Rite puts on a Masonic Information Night once a year. We have the good fortune of having a fairly large population of Masons here so they invite family and friends out for dinner and a short talk of the relevancy of the Fraterinty and the kinds of things that attract some men. Not everybody is interested in the kind of teaching and ritual that is found in the Fraternity. But then again not everyone wants to sit in a bar or watch sports all the time either.

Some people are going to deride and make fun of us, so be it. These aren't folks that you could trust in a pinch anyways, so who cares what they think. Some of us, who may have served in the military or law enforcement may have an inckling of what the Fraternity has to offer and we often draw men from those kinds of backgrounds. These are men who understand the value of honest, virtuous behavior. Most Post-Modern men have been culturally emasculated and don't understand the meaning of virtuous, let alone know how to practice being it. Neither do they understand having to cover another mans back when things get ugly. Some of us in the Lodge Room do understand it and we value this kind of Brotherhood over many other social settings.

Don't be down on yourselves, continue to reach out to your neighbors and friends and continue to practice and live by the tenets we profess. It is a process of attraction not promotion. Those that are looking will be looking for men like you, those who are not, will not.

The world is always in need of honest, trustworthy and able men. But often times its only when things get really tough that they come looking for us. In the meantime practice patience and humility and always be ready to be of service.



[edit on 1-9-2010 by sharkman]

Why would masons take the time out of there day
to argue on conspiracy theory boards
i trust you the same way you trust a conspiracist
no love dude, go burn your lodge and read the bible
oh wait the devil might enjoy that, fire gets him horny

reply to post by sharkman


I must just have to say very good post brother! Masonry will never die, we will only attract men that are most worthy to be a member of our great fraternity.

Originally posted by reeferman
reply to post by scooterstrats

 

Why go?

You masons are sworn to secrecy ...

you can't answer a question straight..

Masons have been answering questions straight here for a dog's age. Every Masonic ritual I know of is easily Googleable (along with an awful lot of inaccurate shlock) so obviously being "sworn to secrecy" hasn't prevented many and sundry beginning in the 18th century from breaking their solemn promises.

That speaks to the worth of their word and I choose not to emulate them because I value my reputation.

Originally posted by Theproofessor
Why would masons take the time out of there day
to argue on conspiracy theory boards

masons are just people. they came here for all sorts of reasons. mainly because they like conspiracies I would assume. Why are you here?

i trust you the same way you trust a conspiracist
no love dude, go burn your lodge and read the bible
oh wait the devil might enjoy that, fire gets him horny

whatever.

Originally posted by Aeons
reply to post by scooterstrats

 

But if this fraternity prefer dying off and slowly moving into smaller and smaller venues, and losing your base in the small towns to the apostolic movement that hates it....who am I to stand in the way?

All I can say is that my experiences don't jibe with yours vis a vis membership. If you were making this assertion say 15 years ago, I'd probably be inclined to agree with you because men of the Baby Boom generation by and large didn't involve themselves with anything beyond their front door. The churches that prospered were not their parent's church but of a self-centred, evangelical bent. To the Baby Boomer, old=bad, new=desirable.

But in the last 8 years or so, in my suburban Toronto Lodge, we've been seeing a consistent increase in interest and applications from 20 and 30-somethings looking for something outside themselves. The average age of our membership is dropping not moving closer to the grave. As for Lodges in smaller cities and towns, I can't say with certainty but I'm sure that they're facing challenges for new members simply because modern mobility and communications options have created alternatives for local men that didn't exist to the same degree even 20 years ago.

Originally posted by tigpoppa
Masons are just doddering old men stuck in the past.

Like humbleseeker, your 'experiences' don't jibe with mine and I think it's a mistake to project an absolute opinion (in either direction) based on a limited data set.

Originally posted by tigpoppa
Those rituals can be cut down! They wont do it because like you said I need to appreciate them wasting my time.

Anything can be cut down. Why read a book when you can see the film? Why see a film when you can read the review? Why read the review when you can see how many stars the reviewer gave it? Sometimes the process IS the message.

Originally posted by tigpoppa
Their not fun to watch their not entertaining,

Sorry morality's such a buzzkill.

Originally posted by tigpoppa
lets be honest, I wont say what parts but you know what parts at open and close we can cut out! I mean seriously if they dont adapt then their gonna die.

No. Say it! Show us how you'd change the ritual!

Originally posted by tigpoppa
The old men only want people to like you said read about it and keep it alive. The idea is there and I am down with the underlying principals that the parts i want to change HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH!!

For example.....?

Originally posted by tigpoppa
Changing what I want to change does not change any of the meaning or the beliefs it just streamlines it. Sitting there watching the same thing again and again and traveling to other lodges to see the same thing by different people just killed it for me. Its soooooo boring it doesnt help anyone get jobs or network since their all to old and out of the industry to assist anyone. I mean there is no point in this organization.

Ah!!!!! There's the rub! So you joined for mercenary motives! Thanks for clarifying the issue! Sorry your networking has to include some boring old morality.

The point of the organisation obviously escaped you.

Originally posted by tigpoppa
I rely on my fraternity more for connections then the masons in my area simply because their so old and out of touch they wouldnt even know how to help me if they wanted too.

Also I never read on any websites about them being weird.

You're on ATS, aren't you? Clearly you haven't been looking all too hard.

Originally posted by tigpoppa
They seemed fine to me. They also seemed very boring. Everything took forever to get done. I got things to do, people to see and such. The only fun part was going to the bar afterwards. If you consider hanging with old men fun which I dont mind. Thing is I love listening to their stories but the rituals for open and close killed it for me cant go back and never will.

Such a loss.

Well I am not exactly sure after reading all these posts of where I would fit in. I have tried to figure out if it is a code or a riddle or a hidden meaning. I have failed so I will just be blunt.

What does the requirement to have a "A belief in a Supreme Being" mean?
I have read it being referred to as the "Great Architect of the Universe" and the "Grand Architect of the Universe". Does "Supreme Being" refer to God? Is this a statement meaning Intelligent Design or Creationism?

I will say it plainly and clearly. I am what people call an Atheist. Does that mean that my application would be rejected outright without giving my other traits and deeds a chance to speak for me as a human? I use the Scientific Method whenever I can. I find logic in scientific experiments resulting data indicating that prayer has no effect. Does this mean that I would not be accepted into your group?

Originally posted by idonotcollectstamps
I will say it plainly and clearly. I am what people call an Atheist. Does that mean that my application would be rejected outright without giving my other traits and deeds a chance to speak for me as a human?

Yes, it does. The organization is religious and spiritual in nature. If you steadfastly reject the idea of any such beliefs, you would gain nothing from the teachings within the lodge. You'd probably be bored to death with it, roll your eyes, etc.

You don't have to be a Christian with a hands-on belief of God, but you at least have to believe that something bigger than us, perhaps with intent, caused the Big Bang. If you can meet us at least that far, you're welcome to join, because such an entity would be the "creator" that we pray to in our own way.

I use the Scientific Method whenever I can. I find logic in scientific experiments resulting data indicating that prayer has no effect. Does this mean that I would not be accepted into your group?

Every lodge opens and closes with a prayer; the oaths you make in lodge, you make on a "volume of sacred law" (be it the Bible, the koran, or whathaveyou). If you don't at least have SOME belief, then you'd just be going through the motions without any meaning to it. So why would you even want to be there with us? I mean, as an atheist, do you go to Catholic masses regularly? Take communion? Why not?