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Originally posted by sigil23
What I feel the union of the States of America, and the rest of the world, truly needs is self sufficient citizens willing to build their own infrastructure that circumvents corporate distribution lines; amongst other things. Sustainable living practices are key, as well. America seems to have become well seated in to a tradition of an active discourse on sociological and political conditions with little to no practical action. Once you make your everyday life 'cost' little to no money in dollars, then you have performed an integral act of dissent.
The only thing that seperates a janitor from a Neurosurgeon is his mental capacity to do the work needed. Both perform a job that is needed to be done according to their abilities. These abilities are mostly beyond their control, however, there labor is equal.
Ability being equal, the other thing that seperates the two is fortune. The surgeon had a life blessed with either the fortune of money, time, or will to make the pursuit of his job a reality. The janitor did the same with his fortune.
All of which is beyond their control.
Without money, at least one of the obstacles has been eliminated and only the obstacles beyond our collective control exist. Now if the janitor wishes to become a surgeon, and has the desire, ability, and will, he can do so.
Now society has benefited by having two surgeons instead of one, and someone else who is more fitted can pick up the janitors job.
An article which passes judgement after judgement on men who the writer perceives as being inferior only goes to prove just how evil money is. You cannot even write about it without speaking unlovingly of mankind.
First of all, the mental capacity to do a job is nothing to be disregarded when placing value upon the effort put forth. Mental capacity has value, and the higher the mental capacity, the higher the value placed upon it. Secondly, the labor comparison of a neurosurgeon and a janitor is absurd. The remarkable amount of skill and knowledge that is required of neurosurgeon is far greater than that of a ...
It is a false assumption that the ability between a neurosurgeon and a janitor is equal. A janitor very well may have the same ability as a neurosurgeon prior to the development of craft, although you have implied that janitors lack the same mental capacity as neurosurgeons, which is really just another assumption, not based upon any quantifiable evidence...
You began by first insisting there was no difference between the janitor and the neurosurgeon, and now you change your position and leave the open janitors position for one "more fitted".
The janitor need not rely on "collective control" in order to become a surgeon, and if it is money that is the major obstacle to that janitor obtaining the necessary education to become a surgeon, that janitors will and effort will lead him towards scholarship or grants that will resolve the problem of money, and such scholarship or grants can be found on an individual basis, without any "collective control" forcibly taking...
You have passed judgment after judgment yourself brother...
Who assigns the value to this mental capacity? Society of course and we show our value by elevating the status of those with higher mental capacity within our society.
But, where did that mental capacity come from? It certainly isn't something that comes from rigorous study.
Being a thing of nature, is it natural to place it above the rest of nature? I don't think so. What this creates is a sense of inequality...
...for though others may not be blessed the gift of a higher mental capacity, they surely are blessed with something that they can contribute to society as a whole.
Each little blessing contributes to our general survival and progress.
It is not their ability that is equal, it is their labor that is equal.
Each does that which he can according to his ability.
Elliminating money removes the self created obstacle allowing more to reach for such goals, if they so choose, and are able.
"More fitted", being one who is willing and able to do the job. The janitors position is just as laudable as the surgeons, once we eliminate our scale of weighing each against the other.
"Collective control" as used are those things which we cannot, as a society, do anything about.
I am not sure how you perceived it to mean a force used to take from to give to another, but that is not the intent of my usage.
Certainly it is not intended to take wealth away from one to give to another. By all means keep your wealth if you so choose.
It is an illusion of this world. A false idea that one has more than another.
What we do in between can be for the self, or the whole of society.
Money, by its very nature, compels one to focus more on the self, than society.
Of course I did. My point was not to be void of judgement, but that my judgement is all are equal.
The human species is an organism that can either exist individually, creating false divisions which lead to envy, jealousy, pride, anger, war, and its eventual demise, or it can function collectively and provide for all equally leading to peace and prosperity.
The first is demonstrated by history, the later is hoped for as a future.
Thank you for joining me in this discussion Brother, it is most enjoyable!
Originally posted by Klaatumagnum
reply to post by IAMIAM
Large corporation's are an abomination upon mankind. They exist for the sole purpose of achieving greater and greater profit's at the expense of humanity and the planet. They orchestrate war and misery all for money. Money, the root of all evil? No. Money is worthless, backed by NOTHING. It is but printed paper unbacked by precious metals, backed only by the torrid breath of a millionaire class of windbag politicians. Atlas shrugged, my derriere!
Originally posted by Unit541
The only problem, is that trying to get everyone to be self sufficient, especially in this country, is an exercise in futility.
Don't take that to mean that I don't agree with the OP though, I really think every one should not only be allowed to, but required to, support themselves entirely. My gut reaction to someone under such a society who simply won't pull their own weight, is to simply let them deal with the consequences.
I'm just frakking fed up with the welfare culture. I'm fed up with paying (via taxes) for services that don't get rendered. I'm tired of kids with unemployed drug addict parents getting free braces, but $27k a year is too much income to qualify for any assistance in getting my kids (who need braces by the way) health insurance, even if it's just catastrophic coverage. So on and so forth.
So in summation, I agree completely with the OP. Let me worry about me, just stay the hell out of my way. No government has a better idea of what's best for me than I do, but they sure seem to think they do.
Originally posted by idonotcollectstamps
I get a pretty big laugh out of thinking that money is not backed by any commodity. No more gold, silver or platinum, no nothing. There is absolutely no amount of material goods to back up our money.
Isn't that the ENTIRE POINT OF CURRENCY?
So that you do not have to lug around gold bars? You can carry something more mobile that is representative of that pile of gold bars?
What makes a piece of paper worth anything without backing it with something?
I laugh so hard at this concept. I laugh and laugh and laugh.
What determines how much money can be printed? Absolutely nothing. They could print 5 quintillion dollars or 5 dollars. Either way the paper is freaking worthless.
I mean I will admit it is kind of cool from the perspective of a work of art. Presidential mug shots, groovy colors, neat metal strips inside the paper you can see when you hold it up to the light. And that little tiny owl is cute (not sure if it is on the new money).
Nothing can stop this beast of Ca$h now.
Hell with digital currency they do not even have to print the money out. It is not like for every dollar in circulation digitally there is one in storage on paper.