What happens when you see an unmarked car on your property and some guy snooping around

Having dealt with enough cops in social, family and official situations (never arrested), my opinion is that if the cop is doing a stakeout certain formulaic responses should be known to the that stakeouter (sp? just for fun).

He shouldn't be allowed to randomly shoot passerbys.

He should avoid confrontations without BACKUP, It's dark, he's alone, he should call it in.

Attempting to make the civilian responsible for poor, man-slaughtering police work is unjustified. It's also exceedingly stupid.

The civilian may have prevented his death by being a bit more cautious. The cop was willfully screwing up.

Alternate scenarios, formed by my prior associations and general cop familiarity, the cop was up to something illegal. HE may have been the burglar, the burglar's lookout, the burglar's fence or waiting for his payoff. The civilian may have come upon him when this was going down.

I do not accuse him of doing this but any investigation needs to consider that others were present, whether this cop's patrols coincide with burglaries, etc.

He's not an innocent because he's a cop. If anything his familiarity with the criminal is supposed to be used for society's purposes but he may have gone to the 'Dark Side'.

reply to post by whatukno


LoL! Are we reading the same thread or are you watching a Law and Order marathon?

It's a conspiracy website, there is a never ending supply of police corruption, brutality and cover-up stories and we have have concerns.

Ironically, my seven year old has made the same observation about speed traps that getreadyalready made. IMHO, if a seven year old has the sense that LEO are not always looking to just protect us, then that concerns me.

reply to post by kosmicjack


Believe me, I understand that this is a conspiracy website. I understand that in this instance the cop was probably in the wrong.

But I have been here for a while now, I know how this goes. I know that those "conserns" are more like:

OMG COPS ARE ALL EVIL AND ARE ALWAYS OUT TO SHOOT EVERYONE THEY CAN IN FACT EVERY COP OUT THERE MARKS THEIR CARS WITH DEAD GRANDPAS THAT THEY HAVE SHOT BECAUSE IT'S FUN AND THEY LOVE KILLING INNOCENT PEOPLE!

Barely anyone in these threads takes the time to actually think about things for a while.

I tried early on to give some common sense, and what do I get in return?

WHAT? WHY WOULD YOU CALL THE COPS? WHAT SO THEY CAN SEND MORE TO KILL YOU? MY GOD HOW STUPID CAN YOU BE? THE ONLY RATIONAL THING TO DO IS TO RUN UP ON THE COP AND START SHOOTING BEFORE THE MURDEROUS BASTARD GETS YOU!

It drives me nuts!

reply to post by Jenna

Wait, this pastor approached an unmarked car in the middle if the night with a gun in his hand and no one can see how that might have been what caused the cop to shoot? ...regardless, the pastor should have called the police station.

reply to post by whatukno

The Pastor forgot the most important rule, you NEVER EVER approach a strange car at night.

You call the cops. Tell them about the strange car you see on your property and have them deal with it.

It makes no difference that the individual in the car happened to be a cop.

"All are equal under the law" This includes professions where individuals are hired to protect people, property, and/or businesses. Choosing a professions such as a police officers, security guard, or body guard does not elevate you above the law. It does not give you carte blanch to trespass (with a deadly weapon at that), violate due process, claim self defense above the legal definition, etc.

It seems as though there is a recent trend by a small subset of the US who wish to give preferential treatment to certain professions. Treatment that would in effect elevate such individuals working in such professions to a status that would, in fact, make them above the law. You don't have to turn the history books back even a page to discover the dangers in such a decision.

You may not agree with how people exercise their rights but they are their rights and it is their prerogative how they use them.

I don't know what exactly happened in this situation but to demonize the property owner where there is no indication of unlawful activity on his part doesn't make a lot of sense.

EDIT TO ADD:

I get it, can we skip the "all cops are always guilty" lecture?

BTW. Please don't lump me in with your generalizations. I don't believe "all cops are always guilty" But when a man is shot by a trespasser on the mans own property then the killer should stand trial just like everyone else would.

[edit on 27-8-2010 by harvib]

Originally posted by whatukno
I tried early on to give some common sense, and what do I get in return?

WHAT? WHY WOULD YOU CALL THE COPS? WHAT SO THEY CAN SEND MORE TO KILL YOU? MY GOD HOW STUPID CAN YOU BE? THE ONLY RATIONAL THING TO DO IS TO RUN UP ON THE COP AND START SHOOTING BEFORE THE MURDEROUS BASTARD GETS YOU!

Who said that?

This might shock you but an awful lot of people still take care of things themselves. Especially the old timers who werent brought up as state dependents.

You've never shoo'd away wierdos parked in front of your house or gone into a park at night on your block to kick out the drunks hooting and hollering at 2AM?

Just call the cops and wait half an hour? Is that really better? In my experience a neighborhood that gets involved with no putting up with peoples crap and petty crimes experiences far less criminal activity than one that just calls the cops and hides in the closet.

Originally posted by airspoon
While this seems like a horrible and unfortunate incident, the variables are unknown to this thread, thus far. How did the pastor "confront" this cop? Was the pastor trying to beat or kill the cop? Did the pastor have a weapon? Did the cop kill the guy in cold blood?

I agree, a cop does not just shoot someone walking up to them without breaking all protocols and the law. If that was the case he should go to jail for murder, but we do not know the whole story and unless the cop was there to kill him for some reason or the cop is a really bad one I would think there is a whole lot more to this.

reply to post by whatukno


I didn't say it was "dangerous" to call the cops, or that they would send more to shoot you. I also didn't say the cop was evil and set out to kill anybody. I said it was prudent to do your own preliminary investigation before you call the cops, and I said the cop is the trained professional that is carrying a lethal weapon, so the ultimate responsibility is his.

Do you disagree with any of those things?

I have many friends in law enforcement from Police Chiefs and FBI all the way down to rookie deputy sheriffs. Their job is difficult. It is stressful. It is dangerous. Nobody wants to leave for work and then not make it home alive. But, by the same token, they have extensive training in weapons handling, de-escalation of situations, and appropriate use of force. They are the ones that are supposed to make all the correct decisions in a tense and unpredictable situation. They train for it, and they do it day in and day out. They have to be better at it than the average citizen, or they shouldn't be allowed to wear the uniform and carry the gun. They know this, and I doubt any cop you meet would ever say any differently.

Plus, I did say the Preacher should shoulder some of the blame. Whether this car was a cop or a prowler, the preacher seems to have acted rashly and gotten himself killed. I would have expected a cop situation to turn out better than a prowler situation, but two armed men, in the middle of the night, unsure of each other's intentions is a recipe for disaster!

Originally posted by whatukno
The Pastor forgot the most important rule, you NEVER EVER approach a strange car at night.

You call the cops. Tell them about the strange car you see on your property and have them deal with it.

That's what I thought. I worked graveyard shift at a convenience store. When I got to work I noticed a truck parked in the lot. Hours later it was still there. It had Arizona plates, I figured someone had car trouble and left it. I had to go out to do the trash that's when I saw movement inside. I went in and called 911.

Right off the bat the dispatcher asked me if I approached the vehicle and tried to talk to the person inside. It took some time but finally the cops came. Long story short the guy was a railroad worker trying to get home and was sleeping in our lot. Well he could have told someone! Anyway the cops came in all chesty and told me next time I should just try knocking on the window and tell them to move on....with a bit of an eye roll.

I work in a very sleepy tourist town the city cops do nothing all night. State patrol usually takes care of the tourists, our main street is a state hgwy. We're right off the interstate lots of travelers coming through at all hours but little ole me is suppose to approach strange out of state vehicles at 3AM.

Obviously not everyone, namely the cops, is aware of that "most important rule."

reply to post by thisguyrighthere


Dont forget that you should urinate and soil yourself as well.

We must give up any desire to protect ourselves, the armed pirates of the New American Police System will protect us!

They guys that cost you a days pay pay because you forgot to wear your seatbelt, really are out their to help!

Stop selling drugs and flush whatever I have on me...Just kidding lmao!!!

Really I would have gone outside and asked what's up...chances are it had nothing to do with you.I know someone who had a house on a major roadway and he saw the same thing unmarked car and a guy snooping in the bushes come to find out they were chasing drug dealers and the dealers had thrown the drugs out the window, they had arrested the dealers, but they were looking for the drugs for evidence. So could be that or something similar.

OOPS just saw the whole post, well they may have been looking for someone and thought that the guy approaching was the "suspect"? But yeah the damn cop should have told him to put his hands up etc etc and find out before firing jees!

[edit on 27-8-2010 by ldyserenity]

reply to post by harvib


Someone quoted an article that said police had been asked to step up patrols in the area. The guy had called the police himself before because of cars being in the same area as this incident. He took it upon himself to approach a car in the middle of the night with a gun in his hand instead if calling the police like he'd already done 100 times this year. Why this car? If he was willing to call the cops before, why not now?

I'm not saying the cop is blameless, I highly doubt this guy shot himself. But the guy did screw up by not calling the police. Two minutes is all it would have taken to find out it was a cop sitting there and he'd still be alive.


Edit: 'mousse of the night' Thank you cell phone auto-correct....

[edit on 27-8-2010 by Jenna]

Originally posted by Jenna
He took it upon himself to approach a car in the mousse of the night with a gun in his hand instead if calling the police like he'd already done 100 times this year. Why this car? If he was willing to call the cops before, why not now?

Are you saying it is the preachers fault for going out to invesigate a cop doing the exact same thing that he has "called the cops on 100 times this year"? I mean, the cop was doing something illegal to trap the criminals in the first place. Undercover cops shouldn't get a "free pass" when a citizen thinks they are actually a criminal when they are doing something illegal. Unless of course the officer identifies himself and is still in an actual life threatening situation.

I can't for the life of me see how that happens with a 78 year old pastor though.

Sorry if that makes me one of the "cop haters" on ATS.


[edit on 27-8-2010 by Nutter]

This is a very sad incident.

I think that everyone here needs to wait for the facts before they jump to conclusions.

Oh I get it,
So if the police officers "Feel" threatened, they are given a license to kill.
You mean like this?



[edit on 27-8-2010 by ATS4dummies]

I can not believe the total defense of the cop.
if the cop had been kill.
you BET there would have been a full investigation.
this is the cops protecting there own.
there should have been a investigation.
they just dont care any more.

I wonder if the pester recognized him and went to say hello. and wake him up? blam!


[edit on 27-8-2010 by buddha]

reply to post by thisguyrighthere


This doesnt sound like it was in a major metropolitan area, so calling the police will only do you any good if they can find the place in the dark. My friends who live in the sticks dont bother to call paramedics or police because they wouldnt be able to find the place, especially at night, and if its an emergency you dont want to wait 45 minutes.

And what ever happened to a man's right to patrol his own property?

It sounds to me like this cop might have been doing something shady in that unmarked car, and was surprised that someone saw him. He could have had some "company" in the car with him, he could have been drinking, doing drugs, etc....my point being, if he was a dirty cop and someone surprised him, saw him doing things that could easily ruin his career, his marriage, his reputation.... some would kill over such a thing. If the guy walked up with a gun, even better for the cop, now its justifiable.

Clearly this is all just speculation. But I think we are all in agreement that there some major pieces of the story missing. Something doesnt add up.

Ive personally seen on duty cops do some shady stuff. Unfortunately for them, I have pictures and video. Next time I have a run in with the law, guess who's going to be more embarrassed?

Originally posted by getreadyalready


I didn't say it was "dangerous" to call the cops, or that they would send more to shoot you. I also didn't say the cop was evil and set out to kill anybody. I said it was prudent to do your own preliminary investigation before you call the cops, and I said the cop is the trained professional that is carrying a lethal weapon, so the ultimate responsibility is his.

When seconds count the cops are minutes away.....

reply to post by Jenna

The guy had called the police himself before because of cars being in the same area as this incident. ...instead if calling the police like he'd already done 100 times this year. ...But the guy did screw up by not calling the police.

First off, I must have missed where he called the police "100 times this year" or at all for that matter. Can you provide the quote you are referring to? Are you under the impression that there was consent by the property owner to enter the property? I didn't think that was apparent from reading the article. Not that it matters much but at least the perpetrator wouldn't have been trespassing with a deadly weapon.

Secondly it doesn't matter how you believe the victim should have exercised his rights. People may argue that a girl who dresses provocatively and goes home with a strange guy "screwed up" in the event she is raped. However despite the way the girl chose to exercise her rights we would be outraged if the rapist was not charged and forced to stand trial. Would we not? (I apologize for using such an offensive analogy.)

However in this event there is no mention of the "police officer" being charged and most likely wont be. And to make matters worse people will support that decision. Does that not elevate certain individuals above the law and undermine our entire legal system?

A man was killed on his own property and people are actually serving as apologist for the killer despite limited information. Would it make a difference in your mind if the killer was a homeless man sleeping on the victims property? It shouldn't.

[edit on 27-8-2010 by harvib]

reply to post by Wildbob77

I think that everyone here needs to wait for the facts before they jump to conclusions.

Isn't that a jury's job? Will this individual even have to face a jury? Probably not...

Am I the only one here thinking, "That cop is lucky he didn't draw on me cause he would have lost that duel."?

Seriously, that would have been his last professional mistake.

That cop was looking for trouble, straight up, and it appears he found it.

Cop should lose his job and be tried in court for pre-meditated murder.