What happens when you see an unmarked car on your property and some guy snooping around, page 1

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Topic started on 27-8-2010 @ 07:24 AM by thisguyrighthere

A 74 year-old pastor and plant nursery keeper saw a car parked on his property in the middle of the night and went out to investigate.

Long story short the cop killed him.

The car was unmarked.

According to the article the cop was in uniform but it's not like I cant go purchase a cop uniform and a mock badge right now online for $40.

Nobody called the cop.

Just some guy sitting in some car on your property in the middle of the night.

Essentially a trespasser.

I guess cops can not only trespass but shoot you dead for confronting them about it.

Alan Creach, the pastor’s son, said in a statement to the media that his father had gotten up from bed and gone out to check on a vehicle and occupant parked in the lot of the Plant Farm.

The father had suspected that the driver of the vehicle was a prowler, he said.

DeRuwe declined provide the officer’s name, how many shots were fired and by whom, whether the officer tried to contact the business owner prior to driving into the parking in the lot in an unmarked police car.

Story

reply posted on 27-8-2010 @ 07:41 AM by Nutter

Why was the cop in an unmarked car if he was there to "deter" crime? It seems like an oxymoron to me.

reply posted on 27-8-2010 @ 07:47 AM by thisguyrighthere

reply to post by Nutter

Same way a trap door spider deters its prey I guess.

reply posted on 27-8-2010 @ 07:51 AM by whatukno

The Pastor forgot the most important rule, you NEVER EVER approach a strange car at night.

You call the cops. Tell them about the strange car you see on your property and have them deal with it.

C'mon, where I work that's just standard procedure, and freaking common sense. I see some strange idling car not in a parking space or people acting suspiciously, I call the cops. The cops deal with it. You dealing with it is only begging for something to go wrong.

I know this thread soon will be overrun with cop haters, but listen to me for a second.

Someone pulls up onto your property that you don't know, it is in your best interests to call the police right away. I know that a lot of people think they can handle anything, but stupidity usually rewards itself painfully.

In this case what would have saved this mans life is a minute to call the cops and describe the car. The cop in the car would have been called and the situation probably would have ended a lot better.

I know this post is going to be ignored for the usual venom and hatred for the cops as per standard ATS fare, but really, common sense people.

[edit on 8/27/2010 by whatukno]

reply posted on 27-8-2010 @ 07:55 AM by buddha

even criminals have rights. you can not shoot a criminal at night for no reason. and you must tell them who you are. giving them a chance to surender and tell you who they are.
but it is a Shoot first now.
I wonder if the cop had a reason to murder him?
did he know some thing about him?
was his wife seeing him. "pastor=confessional
"
and he got it wrung?

They have won.
you can do nothing.
you have lost.
you will do nothing.

[edit on 27-8-2010 by buddha]

reply posted on 27-8-2010 @ 08:00 AM by baked_bean

"A handgun was found on the ground next to Creach after the shooting."

I'm seriously doubting that a minister is going to try to shoot someone for parking on their property unless shot at first. Baptist Preachers, for the most part, are a peaceful lot and would rather discuss things than see them escalate to violence. I smell a plant, and not the happy-fun kind.

I very much doubt that the handgun is registered to Mr. Creach, and wouldn't be suprised in the least if it just happened to be a police issue or have many different prints on it.

My 2 cents

-Bean

Mods: I'm not sure how to inset a quote into a reply, as I'm pretty new to the whole posting thing. Any instruction or help would be greatly appreciated

reply posted on 27-8-2010 @ 08:07 AM by airspoon

While this seems like a horrible and unfortunate incident, the variables are unknown to this thread, thus far. How did the pastor "confront" this cop? Was the pastor trying to beat or kill the cop? Did the pastor have a weapon? Did the cop kill the guy in cold blood?

To ascertain whether the cop should be punished, much more data is needed. Think about it... If you were a cop, assigned on a stake out and some guy confronted you, half asleep, how would you react? Would you not use deadly force if you needed to? I'm not saying that it is the pastor's fault, though not necessarily the cop's fault either. It could be the cop's fault, but we just don't have enough information to arive at such a conclusion.

Look, I'm the first one to cry out when the police abuse their powers and the public suffers but from a human standpoint, you are going to do what you need to do to survive. It may be neither of the guys' fault but rather that of the department.

--airspoon

[edit on 27-8-2010 by airspoon]

reply posted on 27-8-2010 @ 08:10 AM by thisguyrighthere

reply to post by airspoon

Understandable.

At the very root of the incident though why was the cop parked on private property to begin with if not invited to do so?

He shouldnt have been there at all unless invited to be there.

reply posted on 27-8-2010 @ 08:12 AM by thisguyrighthere

Originally posted by whatukno
The Pastor forgot the most important rule, you NEVER EVER approach a strange car at night.

A symptom of a weak and dependent species.

Let someone else deal with it.

Because we can;t deal with it or because we dont have the power to simply kill whoever is in our way like the cops do?

reply posted on 27-8-2010 @ 08:14 AM by antar

Yep, call 911 and then if you must take protection with you.

reply posted on 27-8-2010 @ 08:15 AM by MR BOB

#"What happens when you see an unmarked car on your property and some guy snooping around?"

They get shot. ..

By a bb gun, with me running around the overgrowth giggling, in a ghillie suit

[edit on 27-8-2010 by MR BOB]

edit to add,I didn't read the tragic story before adding my comment.

[edit on 27-8-2010 by MR BOB]

reply posted on 27-8-2010 @ 08:15 AM by jimmyx

as was said above, too little information is available to make an informed opinion...something stinks though.

reply posted on 27-8-2010 @ 08:18 AM by GobbledokTChipeater

While I agree not to approach a strange car at night, I am having a hard time seeing how a situation which started as a pastor checking on a strange car could escalate so far as the cop had to shoot the man to protect himself.

From the limited information we have, it seems the cop is a little trigger-happy. I find it hard not to think that the cop is in the wrong.

reply posted on 27-8-2010 @ 08:18 AM by whatukno

reply to post by thisguyrighthere

He shouldnt have been there at all unless invited to be there.

W. Scott Creach, 74, approached the police officer who had gone to his business before midnight after police had received a request for increased patrols there earlier in the day, police said.

The request for patrols was passed along to the graveyard shift, but DeRuwe refused to say who made the request for extra patrols.

However, he recently provided information to the Spokane Valley City Council showing that burglaries in July had nearly doubled compared to the same month in 2009. And, reports of car prowling have jumped from 63 last July to 156 this year.

“We establish hot spots of areas where there is a concentration of incidents of crime that occurs,” Van Leuven said. “Based on that, we try to proactively police those areas.”

The area where the shooting took place is located in one of those designated “hot spots” established by the department’s criminal analysis team.

“Of course they concern me,” Van Leuven said of the growing numbers of property crimes. “We actively try to work … those areas where we have identified increased rates of burglaries and car prowling.”

You are intentionally leaving much out of this story, you are doing this to purposely paint the cop in the wrong, and while the cop may be in the wrong, slanting the story to purposely make it appear more so is also wrong.

It seems like the cop was told to go there, it seems like there had been a rash of problems in the area and the cop was there to keep an eye on things.

The problem I still assert was the man instead of just calling the cops and therefore eliminating the problem altogether, went out at night to a strange parked car apparently armed.

Again, don't approach a strange car at night, call the cops. This whole thing would have been avoided if he had just done the common sense thing and called the cops to begin with.

Cops aren't just out there to murder you. Although if you read ATS as your source it might seem like it.

reply posted on 27-8-2010 @ 08:22 AM by whatukno

reply to post by thisguyrighthere

A symptom of a weak and dependent species.

Or people that have one inch of common sense...

Let someone else deal with it.

A simple phone call in this case would have stopped anyone from being killed.

Because we can;t deal with it or because we dont have the power to simply kill whoever is in our way like the cops do?

There was no immediate danger, there was a car parked in a parking lot. Immediate danger calls for the castle doctrine, non immediate danger calls for the boys in blue to deal with it.

Shesh oh Pete!

reply posted on 27-8-2010 @ 08:22 AM by airspoon

reply to post by thisguyrighthere

Was it a church? Even if it was, it still doesn't make it anymore right, though far more understandable in the eyes of the cop. How many times have you used a church parking lot for something? I know I have, everything from sleeping, changing diapers or even to meet others. In fact, I have used church parking lots to park my car as I went to the club/bar/party. On the other hand, I would never do the same thing at someone's house. The cop, who happens to also be a human, could have assumed that the church parking lot was fair game, just like the rest of us. I know that it still doesn't make it right but it might have been an honest mistake.

--airspoon

reply posted on 27-8-2010 @ 08:23 AM by thisguyrighthere

reply to post by whatukno

I left it out because of the refusal to state who made the request. Makes it seem like a lie or a half-truth.

I just found this from a different source:

Spokane police say a Spokane Valley police officer was responding to a prowling call from the nursery.

Earlier Wednesday, a neighbor made a request for increased patrols in the area, and a Spokane Valley police officer had parked his unmarked car in the parking lot. They say that officer was approached by a man and shots were fired. Source

Was the officer responding to an immediate prowling call or a prowling call made hours earlier by some neighbor? Who made the call? Did the old man make the call then forget?

I cant for the life of me imagine what 'confrontation' would happen between a cop and an elderly property owner that would necessitate killing the old man unless the old man was a lunatic.

[edit on 27-8-2010 by thisguyrighthere]

reply posted on 27-8-2010 @ 08:24 AM by 19rn50

reply to post by thisguyrighthere

Bottom line is a murder took place. I read a bible verse that goes
something like this; Would be better to have a milstone wrapped
around your neck and casted into the sea, then the punishment
from God hurting one of his children.
(Cop or Not)
We are all his children good or bad. I often think of 911, and the
punsihment they'll get.

reply posted on 27-8-2010 @ 08:33 AM by whatukno

reply to post by thisguyrighthere

Fine

it, all cops are just out to kill everyone they can get their hands on and no one will ever be safe as long as there is a single cop on the streets. In fact, no crimes ever get committed except for cops.

I have no interest in getting into a stupid debate over something like this especially on this site. This site and it's anti cop thing is about annoying as all hell.

I NEVER have a problem with police officers. I wonder why? I see them nearly every week. I have to call them at work nearly every Saturday. And somehow I manage to survive the encounter.

I wonder why?

Am I somehow getting the tiny fraction of cops out there that actually do their jobs professionally?

I swear, these threads are the most pathetic blatant attempt at anti cop propaganda I have ever seen. No attempt at rational thought is ever given to these threads, it's just hate cops and cops are bad and all cops are murderers and blah blah blah hate hate hate. UGG!

reply posted on 27-8-2010 @ 08:35 AM by Nutter

Originally posted by whatukno

“We establish hot spots of areas where there is a concentration of incidents of crime that occurs,” Van Leuven said. “Based on that, we try to proactively police those areas.”

The area where the shooting took place is located in one of those designated “hot spots” established by the department’s criminal analysis team.

“Of course they concern me,” Van Leuven said of the growing numbers of property crimes. “We actively try to work … those areas where we have identified increased rates of burglaries and car prowling.”

So, they patrol areas of crime in unmarked cars nowdays?

I have an idea. Why not patrol in an actual marked car, that way the crime is actually detered? Instead of waiting for the crime to happen and then pouncing like a trap door spider (I like that thisguyrighthere).

You are intentionally leaving much out of this story

Seems to me that you are leaving a bit out also.

A worker at the greenhouses said that Creach had been protecting his property for 15 years and had gone out at night to check on the land armed with a gun.

IMO, the guy has every right to patrol his own property with a gun.

I say the cops should have informed the owner that they would be staking out the property. Even if a request was made, how is the owner to know the request was fullfilled unless the cops let him know.

Or........show up in a marked car.

The problem I still assert was the man instead of just calling the cops and therefore eliminating the problem altogether, went out at night to a strange parked car apparently armed.

How do you know he wasn't just patrolling his property with a gun (like he did for the last 15 years) and the cop saw him and shot first?

We don't.

But, for some reason, it is becoming the man's fault because he didn't call the cops first (which he could have done before with a slow response from them). Again, we don't know.

Again, don't approach a strange car at night, call the cops. This whole thing would have been avoided if he had just done the common sense thing and called the cops to begin with.

Maybe the cops are a long way away? Again, we don't know.