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Torture in LA jails considered by authorities

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posted on Aug, 26 2010 @ 10:21 PM
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reply to post by UmbraSumus
 


BY the way, the Stamford experiment was carried out on a liberal California College Campus, with Liberal Professors, Liberal students, who were shall we say VERY LIBERAL with their punishments.

Would not have happened in a conservative college.

Get the point???




posted on Aug, 26 2010 @ 10:23 PM
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The people who use this device should be arrested for Crimes Against Humanity - which is what torture is.

Then they should be treated like the torturous criminals they are.

Keeping in mind that criminals who torture people are some of the worst (mostly due to the fact that they torture people).



posted on Aug, 26 2010 @ 10:42 PM
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I just got out of LA County jail in May. During that time I saw many abuses. In the medical ward I saw sheriff's dog pile on one inmate, and taze him. While he was subdued, another sheriff decided that now was the perfect time to do a full force knee drop on his skull. The inmate's skull split causing blood to flow and the inmate to go into convulsions. I don't know what happened to him. This new weapon will just add a new tool to harass and torture inmates. Do you ever ask why this country has such a high recidivism? When you come out of that environment you really do want to hurt someone



posted on Aug, 26 2010 @ 11:01 PM
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reply to post by slugger9787
 


It doesn't matter. People are people and people do horrible things.

No matter what sort of spectrum you want to place in front of it all.

Surely love wanting liberals would do horrible things in certain situations. just as conservatives would do horrible things in certain situations.

Heh, imagine if this was conservatives in this situation!



[edit on 26-8-2010 by kyred]



posted on Aug, 26 2010 @ 11:39 PM
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reply to post by BillfromCovina
 


When you come out of prison you really want to hurt someone.

What a crock of bull puckey.

Why don't you practice some self restraint and control like the remainder of the majority of human beings.

You are just blaming everyone else for your poor choices....and that is the essence of CRIMINAL THINKING.

IF YOU DID NOT LIKE HOW YOU WERE TREATED, OR HOW OTHERS WERE TREATED THEN DO NOT DO ACTIONS WHICH WILL MAKE YOU GET PLACED BACK THERE.

If you do then YOU are the LIAR.

Criminal Thinking Errors
1. Closed Channel Thinking
--Not Receptive
--Not Self Critical
--No Disclosure

a. Good at pointing out, giving feedback on faults of others
b. Lies by omission

2. Victimstance

a. Views self as victim (the criminal will even blame social conditions)
b. Blames others

3. Views Self As A Good Person

a. Focuses only on her positive attributes
b. Fails to acknowledge his destructive behavior.
c. Builds self up at other's expense

4. Lack of Effort

a. Unwilling to do anything he finds boring or disagreeable
b. "I can't" meaning "I won't"

5. Lack of Interest in Responsible Performance

a. Responsible living=unexciting and unsatisfying
b. No sense of obligation
c. Will respond only if he nets an immediate payoff

6. Lack of Time Perspective

a. Does not use past as learning tool
b. Expects others to act immediately on his demands
c. Decisions on assumptions, not facts

7. Fear of Fear

a. Irrational fears (many) but refuses to admit them
b. Fundamental fear of injury or death
c. Profound fear of put down
d. When held accountable experiences "zero state" - feels worthless

8. Power Thrust

a. Compelled need to be in control of every situation
b. Uses manipulation and deceit
c. Refuses to be dependent unless he can take advantage of the situation

9. Uniqueness

a. Different and better than others
b. Expects of other that which he fails to meet
c. superoptimism - cuts fear of failure
d. quits at the first sign of failure

10. Ownership Attitude

a. Perceives all things, people, objects to possess
b. No concept of ownership, rights of others
c. Sex for power and control-not intimacy


www.loebigink.com...

Criminal Thinking Tactics
1. You will continually point out staff inadequacies.

2. Building yourself up by putting others down.

3. Telling others what they want to hear and not what is truth.

4. Lying - by omission, by distorting the truth and by disclosing only what benefits him/her.

5. Vagueness. "Someone", "I will think about it", "Maybe", "If I feel like it."

6. Diverts attention away from self. Introduces irrelevant material. Invokes racial issues.

7. Attempting to confuse others.

8. Minimizes the situation. "I just got into a little trouble."

9. Agree or say "yes" without really meaning it.

10. Silence.

11. Paying attention only to what suits you.

12. Make a big scene about a minor point.

13. Putting off doing something by saying "I forgot."

14. Putting others on the defensive. The tactics such as degrading, quibbling over words, trying to embarrass, using anger as a weapon.

15. Total inattention.

16. Accusing others of misunderstanding.

17. Claiming that you have changed because you did it right once.
www.loebigink.com...

Samenow, Yokelson


[edit on 26-8-2010 by slugger9787]



posted on Aug, 27 2010 @ 12:01 AM
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What is with all of these wishy-washy people who think that the people who are residents of our correctional system would be better rehabilitated by being petted on the head, told they are a good boy/ girl, given a hug (and anything else they want), and sit around singing Kumbaya, rather than being punnished for their crimes?

You give convicts massive exercise yards, computer access, free healthcare, college education, and the guards are not supposed to speak harshly, yell, or do anything that might offend the sensibilities of the convicts?

Does anyone else see anything wrong with this?

Just look at some of the things that these people do to get in to prison:


  • Murder
  • Torture
  • Rape
  • Arson
  • Child Molestation (sp)
  • Armed Robbery
  • Car Jacking
  • Drug Dealling
  • etc, etc, etc.....


The list goes on and on!

Why are we rewarding these people with a government funded vacation?
We tell them that they can do anything they want, they just can't leave.

Prison should be HELL!!

Maybe then they would think before they did anything that would land them there again.

Prisoners should be confined to a 8'x10' cell, with only a bunk, toilet, and sink. They should only have 2 reading materials, 1 the rules and regs for the facility, 2 the religious text of their preference. They should only get out of their cell for 1 hour a day, to be spent in a 20'x50' excercise run (no equipment), seperated from other prisoners, except to work in the prison factory. No talking between prisoners should be allowed. Food should cover the 4 basic food goups, but nothing special (like school food in the 80's). All tatoos should be covered.

Belive me, this is better treatment than a lot of their victims:


  • a 6'x2.5'x2.5' cell (coffin)
  • no reading materials
  • never let out of their cell (grave)
  • never to talk to anyone again
  • and THEY are the food, for the worms.


They viciously rip away the rights of others, so why should they have any at all?

IMO they should not!



posted on Aug, 27 2010 @ 12:07 AM
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Originally posted by Fractured.Facade
Guards are incredibly outnumbered by increasingly violent inmates, would you rather they use bullets?


Increasingly violent inmates?

On what basis do you state as such?

I was shuffled through three jails on a failure to appear for a DUI that was officially listed as under the legal limit for California...three humiliating days that was met with a judge telling me to remain in prison for a week longer so that I could have the charge dropped to 'reckless driving'...

The system is a revenue generating machine and people who are contributing members to society continually get the shaft because they have no recourse to argue with arbitrary opinions of uneducated goons...not all are such, I know but there is a majority (I viewed my experience as a social experiment and I could have toasted all of them in debate; you should have heard the conversations/opinions stated)...

It's a class system and without ever increasing laws they wouldn't be able to perpetuate the funds for this.

And before I get toasted (pun intended) for 'failing to appear', you have no idea my circumstances...

Ever increasingly violent criminals...yeah...criminal as a term denotes as such and that is the problem. Do the math, the funds involved are incongruent with the application of social cultivation.

For the record...they payed more for my experience than the laughable fine they gave me...



posted on Aug, 27 2010 @ 12:44 AM
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Originally posted by slugger9787
reply to post by hoghead cheese
 


Criminals, by the time they get sentenced to some serious time, have ripped assunder the little piece of society wherein they have lived.

For every time a criminal is caught, arrested, convicted and sentenced for a crime, he/she has about 200-250 unsolved crimes in his/her past.


I frankly do not believe that that could be possible true. Every single person arrested for possession of marijuana has committed 250 crimes in their past? are you joking me?




The cost to society, state and local government is staggering.

So what if they work at $0.75 per day to make paint, toasters, furniture?
rs.

They are paying back their debt to society that they have willfully damaged and destroyed in their caree
And so what if you introduce the possibility of on the job injury and death for a career criminal.

BFD


A small thing called human rights, you totalitarian asshole. We're not saying we should be making prisoners comfortable, only that they shouldn't be subjected to behavior that would otherwise be considered criminal if done outside of a correctional situation. Whilst there are some people in prison who are undeniably horrible, horrible people, that isn't necessarily something which is true of them all. Just because someone commits a crime does not mean they have sacrificed their rights guaranteed to them under the constitution: they may have given up their freedom upon conviction, but that doesn't mean that we should be giving correctional officers carte blanche to hand out justice as they see fit.

Your naive portrayal of all criminals, no matter how petty their conviction may be, as deranged and evil human beings is only as stupid as your eagerness to justify the actions of prison guards as heroic and valiant do-gooders trying to protect us all.



posted on Aug, 27 2010 @ 12:52 AM
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Originally posted by slugger9787

Look if they just behave and follow the rules then everything will be okay, they won't get hurt.

I mean, after all they are in there because they have a history of NOT FOLLOWING RULES don't they?



[edit on 26-8-2010 by slugger9787]


Did you even watch the video, arrtard? It displayed numerous examples of prisoners being subjected to needless violence and force despite having done nothing wrong, as well as a needless application of disproportionate force when they were "resisting".

I suppose by your logic, it's quite ok if a police officers shoots you on a traffic stop because you roll down the window and hand him something other than your licence on registration? God forbid you break the rules, serf!



posted on Aug, 27 2010 @ 01:07 AM
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Originally posted by Ghost of Chewie
What is with all of these wishy-washy people who think that the people who are residents of our correctional system would be better rehabilitated by being petted on the head, told they are a good boy/ girl, given a hug (and anything else they want), and sit around singing Kumbaya, rather than being punnished for their crimes?


Once more, noone said that - what we were decrying was the unpunished and unwarranted use of excessive force against inmates who, so the investigations of their circumstances would tell us, did little in the first place to warrant such extreme punishment. We're not saying prison should be nice or comfortable...merely that we should not be funding a system of legal-blackholes across the US where the Rule of Law has as much application as it does in Guantanamo bay. I look forward to the day when, driving home after having had 2 beers, you are pulled over and arrested for DWI (because remember - you don't have to have a BAC over .08 to be charged with DWI and deemed to be intoxicated by the level of alcohol in your blood!)... we'll see just how damned quick you change your tune then.



You give convicts massive exercise yards, computer access, free healthcare, college education, and the guards are not supposed to speak harshly, yell, or do anything that might offend the sensibilities of the convicts?

Does anyone else see anything wrong with this?

Just look at some of the things that these people do to get in to prison:


  • Murder
  • Torture
  • Rape
  • Arson
  • Child Molestation (sp)
  • Armed Robbery
  • Car Jacking
  • Drug Dealling
  • etc, etc, etc.....


The list goes on and on!



It does, and if you had ever read any state penal code, you would become aware surprisingly quickly that the vast majority of indictable offences never or seldom actually involve any violence or injury to others, or at least not so much as to warrant their confinement in a SuperMax facility.





Why are we rewarding these people with a government funded vacation?
We tell them that they can do anything they want, they just can't leave.

Prison should be HELL!!

Maybe then they would think before they did anything that would land them there again.



despite decades of research indicating that the 'fear' of prison doesn't deter anyone, at all, does it not make more sense to use our tax dollars on reeducating and 'resetting' these prisoners so that when they come out, they can actually benefit society rather than just fall back into a life of crime? I'm not saying we should send them all to Stanford, I'm just saying it's worthwhile thinking that if we're going to spend all this money on incarcerating people, we may as well get back what utility from it that we as a society can.




Prisoners should be confined to a 8'x10' cell, with only a bunk, toilet, and sink. They should only have 2 reading materials, 1 the rules and regs for the facility, 2 the religious text of their preference. They should only get out of their cell for 1 hour a day, to be spent in a 20'x50' excercise run (no equipment), seperated from other prisoners, except to work in the prison factory. No talking between prisoners should be allowed. Food should cover the 4 basic food goups, but nothing special (like school food in the 80's). All tatoos should be covered.

Belive me, this is better treatment than a lot of their victims:


  • a 6'x2.5'x2.5' cell (coffin)
  • no reading materials
  • never let out of their cell (grave)
  • never to talk to anyone again
  • and THEY are the food, for the worms.


They viciously rip away the rights of others, so why should they have any at all?

IMO they should not!


For the same reason, Sir, that we as a society feel that you as a private individual should be free from the tyranny of the government. Prisoners forfeit certain rights upon conviction, but should not be deprived of basic human rights such that we in effect give government the tool to begin doing as it pleases with citizenry. If we do that, it is only a stone's throw to totalitarianism and unchecked violence by the powers who, practically, can do with us as they please.

[edit on 27-8-2010 by duality90]



posted on Aug, 27 2010 @ 03:47 AM
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reply to post by UmbraSumus
 


Please give your source for the production items.

Very much doubt the stats, especially paint.



posted on Aug, 27 2010 @ 09:19 AM
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Originally posted by saltheart foamfollower
reply to post by UmbraSumus
 


Please give your source for the production items.

Very much doubt the stats, especially paint.


You were right , they are dubious stats. I`ve spent the last two hours seeking the source of that info and it would seem to lead to Vicky Pelaez.

This Vicky Pelaez...

Vicky Pelaez: Can someone be married to a Russian spy and not know it ?

From this English translation of a Spanish article , she had attributed the statistics to Doug Henwood of the Left Business Observer, he says he never wrote it. .




There is a substantial Prison Complex Industry which is growing at an enormous rate , ...... something to consider . Institutionalising so many people for non violent offences is possibly creating more problems than it it is solving.


Bureau of Justice Statistics


Please forgive my complicity in sharing dodgy data.
Ignorance denied.



posted on Aug, 27 2010 @ 10:05 AM
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Something else that should be kept in mind here, some people go to jail even though they are innocent, and some police, and prison are just as bad if not worse than many of the people they arrest/babysit. you can be a piece of crap whether you are a cop, a fireman, teacher, career criminal. People are people and about 75% of them suck in my opinion. This world is completely dominated by hate and violence. I would bet my left testicle that many of these pro pain ray people have committed a crime in their lives that could earn them jail time.



posted on Aug, 27 2010 @ 10:29 AM
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6 months from the date they buy it, it's gonna be sitting on the shelf collecting dust. No watch commander in their right mind is going to allow that thing to even be handled in a cell extraction not w/o a mountain of paper work to follow.
And think of the effects of actually using it! You'd be dealing with Investigations and civil suits for years to come. There's not need for something like that.

Only time that thing will be used is on some Sunday day shift where a deputy tries to cook a steak with it.

Now, I am all for the Dazzler.



posted on Aug, 27 2010 @ 05:34 PM
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reply to post by slugger9787
 
Slugger your post shows you are brainwashed and unoriginal. You live in the world of me against you and might makes right. You believe that because the police are labeled the good guys they should be allowed to run amok and not follow the law. We now live in a police state in this country and its because of people like you.

If the real law is might makes right, why should I obey any laws? The people who have power in this country got to that position by the use of force and taking from others. The policemen are only the henchmen who serve the powerful.



posted on Aug, 27 2010 @ 05:57 PM
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What I'm really getting a laugh about over this thread is:

1) The title of the thread. I thought that you had to use the title of the actual story, not make up something sensational.


2) That posters here on ATS think that corrections officers are going to just use this for a cheap laugh and not for any sort of self defense. And before anyone flips out and posts, "How do you know they won't??" think to yourself how many firearms are in the hands of guards, and how many times a year you hear about them taking pot-shots at prisoners for yuks.

3) Of course, every prisoner you ask is innocent, but I'm still leaning towards the idea that they are in prison for a reason, and it's not suppose to be fun and games. They riot because the freakin' big screen TV is on the fritz and they can't watch, "I love Lucy", I fully hope that the guards fire up their portable microwave and bug zap a few until they settle down.

Unless you're rather have them open fire with a shotgun? Choice is yours.



posted on Aug, 27 2010 @ 06:35 PM
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Originally posted by duality90

A small thing called human rights, you totalitarian asshole. We're not saying we should be making prisoners comfortable, only that they shouldn't be subjected to behavior that would otherwise be considered criminal if done outside of a correctional situation.


So, they shouldn't have to be subjected to the same type of acts that they committed to get sent to prison? Gotcha. We must protect the murderers from murder, the rapists from rape, the child molesters from molestation, the drug dealers from drugs...I'm getting your point. Thank you so much for making your position clear.


Originally posted by BillfromCovina
The inmate's skull split causing blood to flow and the inmate to go into convulsions. I don't know what happened to him.


He likely became less of a burden on the taxpayers.

/Q



posted on Aug, 27 2010 @ 06:47 PM
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Originally posted by duality90
Prisoners forfeit certain rights upon conviction, but should not be deprived of basic human rights such that we in effect give government the tool to begin doing as it pleases with citizenry. If we do that, it is only a stone's throw to totalitarianism and unchecked violence by the powers who, practically, can do with us as they please.
[edit on 27-8-2010 by duality90]


Basic human rights...like cable T.V.? Or maybe cigarettes? Oh, oh, I know...conjugal visits! Yeah, those are basic human rights. Let's see...what rights do murdered people get? I'm coming up blank, here. How about their families? Well, they get the right to provide room and board for the murderer of their loved one! That's fair, right? Right?

/Q



posted on Aug, 27 2010 @ 10:08 PM
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reply to post by duality90
 


Has anyone you love ever been injured or killed by someone who went to prison?

I doubt it. When it happens, let me know and we'll talk then.

BTW, I don't drink, and wouldn't drive if I did. If I did, then I would take responsability for my actions, not try to blame society for everything that I screwed up.

Or maybe I should blame everyone else. You know blame the beer distillers, for making a drink that robs me of my motor skills. Or how bout the waiter for bringing me the drinks, when he knew the evils of alcohol. Then there are the car companies, for making a car that I couldn't handle drunk. Or how about the victim, that I hit, They shouldn't be there in the first place.....etc..etc...etc... (end SARCASM)

If you are pulled over after knocking back a few, even if your BAC is >.08, then guess what slick... YOU ARE DRINKING AND DRIVING!!!!! Just because your BAC is >.08 doesn't mean that you are not impared. And if the officer takes you in for it, then it is because he/ she believes that you are impaired, by their observations of YOU!!

Sory to the OP for going off topic.




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