Against Illegals? You Are Anti America!!

reply to post by Danbones


When we had the immigrants in the early 1900's, they came legally and we ran checks on them they all seen a doctor and were subjected to mental health tests also! And many were turned back and sent back!
This is much different today,we don't know what kind of diseases are coming in ,we don't know if they are mentally sane or not? I give you the case of the 4 illegals that raped and murdered a woman in my home state of Louisiana,she was the mother of 3 children! They are now in custody and we will try and get the death penalty for all of them, maybe if they seen a psychiatrist before entering this country her children would still have a mother!!!!!

Unless you are in one of the industries targeted by the illegals, I am, you don't know what you're talking about. There is a game being played and you are clueless.

reply to post by hotbakedtater


As been pointed out numerous times in this thread, the people who come to work here illegally, are criminals, along with those that hire them.

And while I'm thinking about it, you mentioned illegals paying rent....

Whoever rents to them, knowing they are here illegally, is a criminal as well, for harboring an illegal!

reply to post by hotbakedtater


Well, while your premise is certainly entertaining, you are incorrect.

But you have some valid points as well, so truly, you're theory is a wash.

Illegal Immigrants are called "illegal" because they did not legally seek to gain access to America, our beloved country, due to a few reasons.

1) Lack of funding.

2) Lack of proper paperwork in their country.

3) Lack of ability to survive in their own country.

4) Being considered a criminal within their own country.

5) Being considered a crimial within our country due to political affiliations.

Whether our country considers them a criminal or not, is beside that, if their country documents them as a criminal, due to a national policy within the bounds of their nation, it comes to our foreign policy protecting our national policy, politicians favoring a certain countries resident, and or our international influence and or the lack thereof with that country.

Then, we have not only those social issues to contend with, when considering this particular issue, next we have America and our Xenophobia.

Quote from : Wikipedia : Xenophobia

Xenophobia is the uncontrollable fear of foreigners.

It comes from the Greek words ξένος (xenos), meaning "stranger," "foreigner" and φόβος (phobos), meaning "fear."

Xenophobia can manifest itself in many ways involving the relations and perceptions of an ingroup towards an outgroup, including a fear of losing identity, suspicion of its activities, aggression, and desire to eliminate its presence to secure a presumed purity.

Does the fear of an outsider make us un-American due to our being anti-Illegal Immigration?

No.

It makes us in fact paranoid as a nation to an extent.

Whether you agree with this, or not, or whether you believe it for the same reason, exampled by events like 9/11, or not, is irrelevant actually.

People fear those who are different, and while not everyone does this, enough people in a large group fearing, hating, loathing, and or not wanting something is pretty important and or specific enough to make it important.

Hence we have a law made and or enforced, or not, depedent upon society's demands.

Immigration Gumballs : Part 1


Immigration Gumballs : Part 2


Now, after watching those videos, I move on towards another issue.

Human Trafficking and that of the Coyotes.

Quote from : Wikipedia : Human Trafficking

Human trafficking is the illegal trade in human beings for the purposes of commercial sexual exploitation or forced labor: a modern-day form of slavery.

It is the fastest growing criminal industry in the world, tied with the illegal arms industry as the second largest, after the drug-trade.

That is what some call the simplified version of people smuggling.

Smuggling is a covert nature of producing a product through subversive means.

Hiding, and or playing cat-and-mouse games with Law Enforcement.

Namely our Border Security and the Coast Guard.

But before I really go into either of those and or the diverse nature of drugs, that go hand-in-hand, with people smuggling, and or Human Trafficking, let us examine the Coyotes, the bad guys, one of many.

Quote from : Wikipedia : People Smuggling : Coyote

People smuggling (also called human smuggling) is defined as "the facilitation, transportation, attempted transportation or illegal entry of a person or persons across an international border, in violation of one or more countries laws, either clandestinely or through deception, such as the use of fraudulent documents".

Now, people smuggling and human trafficking are different, but not by much.

It is the intent upon which the event is predicated that determines the definition used.

As well as this there is the fact that the border acts like a boundary.

Between us and everyone else.

Are our funds being spent in the most efficient and relevant manner?

Obviously not, the Coyotes and Drug Smugglers have more motivation.

Than our own Border Security and Coast Guard.

Then there is of course your own definition of law and order.

Is that just a television show to you or do you believe in foreign and or domestic policy?

I bet I already know the answer to this but I will await for your answer.

Meanwhile, I will invite you to a thread, relevant to your premise.

Mexico : The American/Mexican Border, Why Your Rights Are Gone, Because of Arizona...

But over all the entire drama that is the border boils down to one thing.

It's all a smoke screen between politicians, corporations, and the power elite.

Just to get us divided and conquered amongst ourselves, bickering about race.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/738827ab5d3b.jpg[/atsimg]

Information, food, and money are all things which will be linked to this border issue.

Sheepdogs vs. Wolves : Law Enforcement, Predators and Prey, and Love or Hate Cops...

As well here is another invitation to another complex issue along this topic.

I look forward to your reply because your premise is interesting.

But like many others, I have zero issue with legal immigration, but Illegal Immigration.

And you can claim someone is un-American just as I can claim you are.

Since your premise is we're un-American for not liking Illegal Immigrants.

Claiming it however is a far stretch from it being true though.

I want the money I pay in taxes to be spent wisely and to actually resolve the issues.

Not be a revolving door for continual funding which never goes anywhere.

[edit on 26-8-2010 by SpartanKingLeonidas]

Why don't you just leave your windows and doors wide open and allow anyone to stay as long as they want, without paying for food, utilities, rent and damages incurred?

Put a sign outside your house declaring it an open to the public. See how well you sleep at night.

[edit on 26-8-2010 by Smack]

Originally posted by hotbakedtater
reply to post by FiatLux

 

The American economy is not crashing, has not crashed and I believe it won't crash.

Wow, I don`t know where your head is at, but it`s not on this planet. Ever counted how many factories that have closed their doors around your state? Ever go and look at the lines at the unemployment office? Ask the people around you, if they have had to dip into their savings and 401 k`s just to make ends meet? Ask them what will be more important this year, buying for Christmas, or just having the money to keep a roof over their kids heads. Not crashing? Tater, your responces to many of us remind me of the kid who puts their fingers in their ears, and goes....I don``t hear you, I don`t hear you, I don`t hear you......I`m right, I`m right, I`m right. It makes me wonder if you really have a clue. Or even want to have one.

reply to post by plube

We seem to want the same things; but have slightly differing opinions on how to best achieve them.

I have only one issue to expand on though.

Welfare in and of itself is not bad no; and an equality of medical care would certainly help to create an equality of all people regardless of income bracket in America.

When I speak of welfare states, I mean excessive welfare, the give, give, give attitude of some states and ideologies. Welfare is meant to help, but in some cases can do more harm than good.

I know a few people who collect on unemployment while working under-the-table and collecting untaxable income. If they work not UtT they would not be getting any benefits, and might be just over the required income for welfare. Were the taxes in this state not out of control while the paychecks stagnate (a problem related much to the inflation from our central banking system) they'd probably be able to live just fine on the pay they were earning. The destruction of the middle-class and economy as a whole has led to more welfare and unemployment claims which further tax and already stressed system.

The abuses of any well-meaning system and continual handing out and increased spending while the country continues a flat-spin further and further into debt necessitate the system get a reboot and our priorities focused on what cases really require aid and how to better stamp out systemic abuse.

The politicians and everything they do to perpetuate the things that divide us have always been the real enemy, no doubt.


[edit on 8/26/2010 by eNumbra]

reply to post by hotbakedtater


Well unfortunately, your theory is one of the main reasons why this country of ours is $13.3 trillion debt. Dream on. The bank is broken. We are being worked and taxed to death, and for what?..........

.............So every one in creation can waltz in here and start demanding more money and then turn around and vote for politicians who will unselfishly give them more and more of our tax dollars. Acorn will see to that as they always do.

Do you pay taxes?.......I didn't think so. Even if you would agree to pay my share for me I still wouldn't agree with your "theory". Well guess what? There is going to be a day of reckoning with the nations finances. It is unavoidable and as certain as death and taxes itself. Our debt is unsustainable. At a time when everybody should be making tough sacrifices and when every penny should count, you want us to support the rest of the worlds population. LOL.

As far as I am concerned, the Progressives have won. The Communists have successfully taken over the country and it is only a matter of time before we will reap what we have sown. There is no way that our national debt is even going to be sustainable, let alone be able to be paid down.

Enjoy life while you still can, and don't blame your illegal friends when it all comes crashing down. You can blame yourself for your wild ideas. You can still blame it on Bush too,.........right?

[edit on 27-8-2010 by MY2Commoncentsworth]

What Mexico does is they arrest illegal immigrants and incarcerate them and then they use them to extort money from their families their credit and where ever else they can get it.
The ones who are broke, the ones with middle eastern accents, and the ones with suitcase nukes, they release just south of the US border.

reply to post by hotbakedtater





What makes America great? I believe diversity. But the flood of Mexicans coming across the border has nothing to do with that. It is about crashing the system. Just like in Europe with the Muslim's they want things off balance. This is what it is truly about.



Why pass brutal laws that take away freedom when you can get the people to beg you do it. They are smart very very smart.

most americans are the children of immigrants...but....
my ancestors came in, following a set of laws, they were registered as soon as they left the boat just about...
the gov't knew who they were, where they were from...

is it really anti-american to want the laws concerning immigration enforced?
in this day and age, when full body scanners are being used on people,not just at airports but as they walk down the street,

socyberty.com...

for our protection of course, because well, there's this group here that wants to blow the hades out of us according to the gov't.....well, isn't it reasonable to want a record of who has come into the country, from where...and well, maybe where they are planning to travel off to??

it's okay if the gov't blasts our dna with new, basically untested, possibly dangerous technology.....for our protection of course, it's okay if the creeps at the airport forces moms to drink their baby's breastmilk, harass old ladies in wheelchairs, and on and on.....oh ya, that is as american as apple pie!!!
but no, we shouldn't be the least bit concerned about who's coming across our borders!!!

come again!!!!

as long as those borders are so open with masses of people flowing in, I am not even gonna take the threat of terrorism seriously, because obviously, those we've elected into office, who have much better access to intelligence data and such, obviously aren't taking the threat too seriously, at least not as seriously as they are taking the need for businesses to have a cheap labor pool driving mine and everyone elses paychecks into the mud!!

and that makes all these invasions of my privacy...all for my protection of course.....about the most unamerican thing I have seen happen in this country in a long, long time!!!

why have the laws, if it's "unamerican" to enforce them??
heck why don't we just all go rob a bank...and then we can cry how it's unamerican for them to prosecute us and send us to jail!!!

heck why have laws at all, since well, they are all infringing on our freedom to do whatever we want, whenever we want to, right???

reply to post by hotbakedtater

Originally posted by hotbakedtater
If the criminal employers paid the proper taxes on those they hire then we would have billions in the tax cofferes. I blame the criminal employers not the humans themselves.

Talk about entitlemen. Is Tyson Corp. the big chicken company ENTITLED to self given tax breaks in the billions for hiring humans with no papers?

I don't think that you really understand what you are saying here. Employers are criminal for hiring illegals to begin with. One must possess an authentic social security card to be able to seek employment in this country. Many illegals have fake social security numbers and thus do end up putting money in the coffers, but it isn't enough. You're talking billions. I'm talking trillions.

Yes, employers are criminal if they knowingly hire illegals and pay them under the table. They are criminal even if they suspect that a job applicant has phony documents and they hire them without checking the authenticity thereof. They are criminal for contributing to our huge national debt at a time when billions more should be flowing into the treasury and millions of Americans are out of work. They are criminal when they cover up the ongoing fraud that they are perpetrating against the American people in order to be able to compete and to provide goods and services a little cheaper than they would have if they played by the rules.

I have no sympathy for these kinds of employers. And I have no sympathy for illegals either. They are no less criminal than their employers. Give each and everybody equal treatment under the law. They all belong in jail. If they want to work, they can do it prison. Make them work for their food and shelter and medical care while they are incarcerated. Have them build their own prison, grow their own food, and work to pay off what they owe.

Don't forget that the Tyson chicken plucking brigade has had the Clinton's in their back pocket for years. If you are steamed about Tyson, then you should also be pissed at how the Federal Government has allowed us to arrive at this juncture...... It's time for the Federal Government to start enforcing its own laws, all of its laws.

But even if all this happened, the system is still going to crash someday. I don't think people realize that the interest on the national debt alone is going to be $1 trillion a year before the end of the next decade.

That means that by 2020, we will either all be living in tents, or we will all be learning how to speak Chinese.

reply to post by eNumbra


I tend to agree with you on the welfare state...but if you think about it.

these services are put into place to carry people through when times get tough...and yet when times get tough it is the first things to get the axe.

unemployment insurance is exactly what is says on the tin....it is insurance for when someone becomes unemployed through no fault of their own.

It is sad when times are good and people are contributing at exoborant rates the goverment takes the money and puts it into general coffers.

and then when times get hard they cry foul and axe the programs that the people whom require it the most are the first ones left high and dry.

so all the hard working people who have paid dearly into the said system become the victims of the same system.

I am an immigrant in England...i have lived here for 7yrs. I signed a note saying i would not take anything from the system.

I see alot of local English people on the dole moaning how hard they have got it...while i dont have a choice...i have to work or i simply dont eat...(i wouldn't want it any other way anyhow).

but to hear how it is immigrants that are the problem i dont really think so...

now especially illegal immigrants whom definately dont get access to benefits of anykind...how are they actually being a burden on the system..

alot of of legal immigrants become a burden on the system more so i think as they actually can use the system to their advantage, where as an illegal can't.

oh by the way before someone goes on a rant about me...i am blond blue eyed cacausion....lol.

i think it would be better if govements let people become legal so they can work legally,not affecting the wages of the citizens by becoming slave labour and then being able to contribute taxes.

illegals are not inherently criminals...just that immigration laws are protectionist and money making where if you don't have the cash you dont have the class.

many many immigrants are hard working and just want a better lifestyle.

and if given the oppurtunity they could legally contribute in a much better fashion to the whole of society.

just my opinion through experience of going through immigration systems.

i also am dealing with australian immigration right now and long as i contribute about 60,000 pounds into Australian bonds along with my trade i can get in fairly easy.

but, I am leaving that option open till i make up my mind.



[edit on 103131p://f50Friday by plube]

Originally posted by hotbakedtater
reply to post by greeneyedleo

 

I disagree. Our economy is obviously supporting everyone who lives here, and it is not weak or else we would not be getting so many here illegally.

I do not have to have an illegal in my home to be proud of my strong country.

So you are not willing to support criminals in your home in order to provide them a better life? Who are you expecting to support these people? Me? Your neighbor? The government which means, the people?

Our economy is obviously supporting everyone? Really?

Record high unemployment. ( Current state unemployment rates ) Record high foreclosures. ( Foreclosures at all-time high ) Economy Tracker Economy slowing down

St ates budgets wiped out

We are not in a stable economy. It is absolutely ridiculous and just wrong to be trying to support illegals when we are in the state we are in. Period. Take care of HOME first before taking care of the rest of the world. If HOME falls apart than how the hell do we help the rest of the world?

[edit on August 27th 2010 by greeneyedleo]

reply to post by greeneyedleo


I think you isunderstand. I am talking about the humans already in my country "illegally".

None of them live in my home yet my strong wonderful country IS supporting them and taking care of them just like my country does me.

I dont have to support them, they are already supporting themselves, by building our homes, and picking our produce and feeding us and rocking our babies in daycares while we work. They are already supporting themselves in my strong country, they do not need my help.

Originally posted by hotbakedtater

I think you isunderstand. I am talking about the humans already in my country "illegally".

And that they are already here, makes that ok?

None of them live in my home yet my strong wonderful country IS supporting them and taking care of them just like my country does me.

Nope, they are stealing from this country, and you are allowing it to happen.

I dont have to support them, they are already supporting themselves, by building our homes, and picking our produce and feeding us and rocking our babies in daycares while we work. They are already supporting themselves in my strong country, they do not need my help.

They are not supporting themselves, legally, and it isn't just the people that hire them. Both parties are involved in illegal activities. As far as daycare, didn't you have a thread where you were fired from one, for supporting bumper stickers on your car that referenced pedophelia? Didn't one sticker in particular refer to the GOP, as "Grand Old Pehophiles?" Are you an illegal, that tried to get a job at a daycare center?

Weren't you fired, for your bumber stickers?

They are supporting themselves illegally in our country, not part of this country, and sending dollars home to their families in whatever country, besides buying groceries.

If this continues, we will not survive!

reply to post by hotbakedtater


I think it has gone beyond any reasonable debate when drug gangs are shooting up the Mexican police and military, executing public officials, and putting hits out on our elected officials.
I think reasonable people do not want an environment where innocent people are being raped, tortured and murdered by the dozens every day, in and around their neighborhoods.

"Reasonable" people includes former Mexican Nationals. It includes a large percentage of people, especially those living in the border states, as they are affected more directly.



Mexico is a failed state and they are dumping their problems on us. We cannot afford it, nor do we want undocumented people to enter our country illegally. It just makes sense.
Amnesty for illegals is a slap in the face for every legal immigrant that played by the rules.
\

reply to post by Blanca Rose


I am no more responsible for any theft from my great country than you are. I feel the criminals employing the humans without papers are allowing the theft, as they are theiving themselves.

My personal life is not the topic and is not up for debate.

reply to post by Blanca Rose


I am no more responsible for any theft from my great country than you are. I feel the criminals employing the humans without papers are allowing the theft, as they are theiving themselves.

My personal life is not the topic and is not up for debate.

reply to post by Smack


Yeah rotten idea that, amnesty.

Instantly making millions of persons paychecks above board and available for taxation. Millions of companies on the line for instant billions of taxes they will owe on the newly amnestied illegals, ooops, now legals. Always they were human, alays they perform their jobs, yet with out papers they are scorned and spit upon?