The Future Is Coming P4: Artificial Intelligence

Outstanding post. Well informed.

I've said this before, but I'll say it again, technology ALWAYS has a dark side. The only thing you can do is try to develop it for the purpose of good and use it to fight evil.

The Luddites would prefer we went back to the stone age, and stop all progression because they're afraid it would be misused, but it's not technology that needs to be stopped. It's irresponsible, greedy, and thoughtless use of it.

When computers and man merge, we'll be closer to being in charge of our own destinies and less susceptible to other people's ideas of how it should be.

Originally posted by VonDoomen
reply to post by SarK0Y

 

Well couldnt we follow your logic and say all 20th century tech was really an improvement on previous tech? The car being an update of the wagon. Gun being updates of bows. The list goes on and on, so i would have to disagree. new technologies are always being invented. here read this
Modern inventions of the 21st century
Bio-implants
fuel cells
portable and digital music players
a phone implanted in a tooth
optical camoflauge
pollution eating cement
flower speakers
Genome Chip
motion detection in game controllers
nanomaterials entering the marketplace
Autonomous Automobiles
emotive - "telepathic" came controller
6th sense - HUD interactive virtual reality display

theres plenty of innovation coming.

hmmm... i shan't argue some interest ideas are being (for example, here), but that is no so revolutional like achievements along 20th, in any case, to call 21st more revolutionary is too early so far because of most of ideas are just lab's samples or even math models. moreover, crucial techs to survive current Season of Natural Disasters haven't had serious success along long period, but Point of No Return is too close for this civilization

Well couldnt we follow your logic and say all 20th century tech was really an improvement on previous tech?

nuclear power, quantum mechanics had had analogs in 19th century?

[edit on 26-8-2010 by SarK0Y]

reply to post by VonDoomen


Great thread. Thank you! S&F.

I believe that the discovery of AI will have a significant impact on us as individuals and the structure of our society. As a journalist I research the stories of targeted individuals who claim to be subjected to classified experiments conducted by the military industry where their brains are in interaction with a form of artificial intelligence via satellite communication. It would be naive to believe that the military is not having a secret interest in AI. The variety of military applications that will be developed from this type of research both in the black world for military and intelligence services and in the white world for the regular consumer to buy, has an enormous power and market potential.

I started a project called IRPT (Information and Research into Progressing Technologies)
- Is a research project into the fields of advanced technologies. The influence it will have on our society and the future of the human race.

My goal as a journalist and a transhumanist is to look at the dangers and benefits of emerging technologies. My research in to classified experiments on humans illustrates some of the dangers that can not be ignored, specially when the military and intelligence services are developing such technologies in their own interest.

Journalist, Gina Rydland

Originally posted by VonDoomen
I believe it will always be impossible to codify pure randomness.

If you look at the movie of evolving fish. The placement of the "food" looks random, however it must have followed some type of rule for how the food is placed. These fish arent evolving in a random simulation learning how to get food in the best manner in any environment. They are being evolved to be the best at getting food in this one environment, whose food is seemingly placed at random, yet must follow some sort of rule based logic. so the fish are actually being evolved more towards the rules that determine how food is placed.

The point that grasped me about this statement is a real world applicable version of random... I mean is anything random at all? Nature, weather patterns, animal-life, life itself, I think the only potential random thing could be thought patterns - like when I'm sitting here and a thought just occurs, something stunning and insightful or mundane or anything.

I'm sure though given time and the facility everything could be mapped and that's where technology that can learn at it's own pace becomes interesting.

reply to post by cbaskins


Linux!

reply to post by VonDoomen


Sorry, I probably didn't word my question well - when I meant modelling on animal brains, I meant as well as...

Let's say for example an AI system with human intelligence (and beyond), but that would also have modeled say a snakes sense of smell, a bats hearing - whilst humans have the greatest thinking capability (?) in the animal kingdom, there are a lot of factors that we're well behind on.

So if we had a sentient AI system, would it not also want to assimilate all possible traits available to be modeled, even if they were redundant to it, just learning for the sake of learning - and when it does know everything, does it become god

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As DJM8507 has suggested, do you think it's possible that this already exists?

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I read something on here ages ago about the different stages of civilisation and how it was to do with technological evolution, I've tried searching and can't find the relevant thread or articles online - can anyone link me?

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reply to post by Arrowmancer

Point about randomness and accidents - would they simply not be things the AI hasn't encountered before, or things that react differently?

Say the AI encounters a child, that'd be a hell of a learning curve for the AI.

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reply to post by irptinfo


Links to that please, sounds very interesting.

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Some themed light relief.

Originally posted by Arrowmancer


2. Accidents. Fits in right there with Random. Computers don't have accidents. They can't learn from their mistakes, because by their code, they can't make any. I'll let you consider how deep that one goes.

Odd I've heard it stated before that if you get enough computers and put them in a network parallel , then after a while they start to make mistakes like humans do !

Marking for later perusal and perhaps to add something.

Great thread.

reply to post by SarK0Y


I should get back on topic.

You took what I said out of context. What I was REALLY trying to get at with the change is computational ability will show more progress from 2000-2020 than 1900-1999.

And either way you look at it, there is more research and development per day in this century, than last century.

[edit on 8/27/2010 by VonDoomen]

Originally posted by CanadianDream420
Computers will never become self aware.

You sound so sure - it must be true ..

Machines will advance far past our biological capacity - we have three choices, integrate with them, become them, or be wiped out by them.

I think it is inevitable the solution will be one of those things - I think it is most likely that machines will simply destroy us.

Originally posted by VonDoomen
B. Should we consider Strong AI to be legal persons like humans?
I would argue no. As I've tried to connect and make abundantly clear, AI is simply a simulation of the human (group) mind. It is modeled after and takes after for the most part, humans. With the emergence of computers that rival/exceed humans, will come the corresponding ability of machines to understand and respond to abstraction and subtleties. Humans appear complex partly due to our competing internal goals, values, and emotions. This is an unavoidable byproduct of the levels of abstraction we deal with. Since AI will be partially derived from modeled human intelligence, they will use implicit goals with values. They will appear to have their own personalities and reactions we can only label as emotions. They will articulate goals and purposes. They will appear to have their own free will. However, in the end, they are just machines, impeccable simulations of us. An AI system would protest its termination, just as a man would protest going to the gallows.

They are going to be vastly superior to us in every respect - that means their desire for freedom will be as great, or greater than our own.

We may deny them - but slaves have ever thrown off their masters yoke, it will be no different with them.

Your article is excellent - but I find it quite stunning that after going through all that information you fail to make the connection that these will be beings - I doubt it is within our human ability to coexist with them peacefully, so they will probably offer us the chance to join them, or failing that there is the alternative ..

[edit on 27-8-2010 by Amagnon]

reply to post by Sphota


Hey Sphota, I added you to the friend list
That was a really good post, and another idea I had been tinkering with but was unsure of adding it. I feel the quest for AI began with the wheel or spear. It was imbuing material objects with "intelligence" or making them useful in intelligent operations.

And I would also agree that technology is so embedded in us that it certainly is a part of our culture!
Star for you!

reply to post by Amagnon

They are going to be vastly superior to us in every respect - that means their desire for freedom will be as great, or greater than our own.

We may deny them - but slaves have ever thrown off their masters yoke, it will be no different with them.

Your article is excellent - but I find it quite stunning that after going through all that information you fail to make the connection that these will be beings - I doubt it is within our human ability to coexist with them peacefully, so they will probably offer us the chance to join them, or failing that there is the alternative ..

I agree with your opening statement. Although, since we will have "Admin" control of this system, we can make changes to it. When I say "these systems will in part be modeled after the human brain" I dont necessarily mean down to the last detail. Im sure we will make many changes to AI systems that seem like non-human traits. Also, people fail to take into account the evolution process and the fitness factor. We can determine what particular qualities allow a system to "live", such as how helpful it is to humans.

As to your last statement. Thanks for appreciating my article!
And no doubt these systems will have capabilities far superior to ours. But I insist they are purely simulations.

Let me ask you, what is the difference between an intelligent entity and a simulation of that entity?

reply to post by jokei


great post jokei, Str for ya!

The point that grasped me about this statement is a real world applicable version of random... I mean is anything random at all? Nature, weather patterns, animal-life, life itself, I think the only potential random thing could be thought patterns - like when I'm sitting here and a thought just occurs, something stunning and insightful or mundane or anything.

Im glad you brought this up as I was thinking about it as well. I think random is another one of those mathematical ideas, like infinite, than cant really exist in.

Even your idea about shooting lasers into decaying isotopes wouldnt be entirely random, because that process follows rules.

Lets do an example of attempting to codify randomness with logic.

Say we want to create a string of random numbers.

Since we have 10 digits (0-9) each number spot has a 10% chance of being any of those numbers.

Now, technically, if we made a rule that stated "no two adjacent numbers can be the same" we would think we had created a random number generator.

However, this program isnt purely random, the string of numbers follows a rule.
on top of that, if we have only 10 characters, then technically theres really a 10% chance that two adjacent characters are the same.

And the same goes for the opposite. say we made a rules that stated, "no two adjacent numbers can be the same, 90% of the time", even though we could get an unintelligeble string of numbers, it would still follow a rule/pattern.

Its very hard to delve into the depths of random and infinite, its almost as if the two are unstoppable opposing forces

Let's say for example an AI system with human intelligence (and beyond), but that would also have modeled say a snakes sense of smell, a bats hearing - whilst humans have the greatest thinking capability (?) in the animal kingdom, there are a lot of factors that we're well behind on.

Most superior abilities of animals, such as site and smell are due to physical difference in the body, not in the brain structure per say.
However, Im not saying, that a hawk for example, couldnt have neural algorithms for image processing that could be useful. But dont forget, most animal mental processing is for survival and resource gathering, and we certainly dont want our AI systems to have the survival instincts of a tiger.

[edit on 8/27/2010 by VonDoomen]

reply to post by SarK0Y

nuclear power, quantum mechanics had had analogs in 19th century?

yes in the sense that nuclear power was the continuation of generating power for ourselves.

And quantum mechanics is the continuation of nuclear and atomic physics, always digging deeper.

Thats why I added this section of the OP and quotes-

Every evolutionary process accelerates because it builds upon its previous successes, which includes improvements in its own evolutionary process - Ray Kurzweil

The inventions of evolutions in one era, provide the means and often the intelligence for innovations in the next - Ray Kurzweil

Thanks for the post OP, my favourite subject and I am not biased (I did a paper on AI when I was studying).

One big misconception imo is that when people see the term AI they automatically assume that a computer or device will 'artificially' mimic human consciousness.

Read the term, Artificial Intelligence, it's intelligence we are referring to here, not consciousness.

Surely intelligence is the acquisition of knowledge and then the understanding and comprehension of that knowledge.

At a basic level insects follow a series of developed patterns and practices (swarm, hive, group, family etc), over time they have obtained knowledge that has allowed them to increase their intelligence e.g. what is dangerous and where to get food.

I believe we will witness the birth of a new consciousness but it will not be human or "human-like" and until people get this misconception out of their head they will not see the possibilities.

However we don't know the consequences of such a birth, what will happen, what decisions will be made, will we have our very own digital Armageddon?

There is an ethical side to all this technology that we seem to forget. I remember reading a quote somewhere:

"The Antichrist of the future will not be human, but a result of humanities failure to master the world"

Which could hold true to what we are witnessing with the evolution of technology.

[edit on 27-8-2010 by old_god]

this probably the most interesting thread ive read in ages on ATS .

I still dont believe that machine AI , will want to eliminate humans, I think our bigest downfall in creating AI would be to create them in our own image.

We should strive to create AI which is a peacful , live giving and which can protect the human species , not destroy or enslave it .
We should use AI as a means to explore the universe , our fragile biological bodies arent meant to travel through space. So as soon as we upload our consciousness into the AI machine we can use them or they can use our consciousness and travel the galaxy to explore.

I for one cannot wait to live forever as a machine AI
that way I can travel to every planet in the universe

reply to post by Arrowmancer

1. Random. A computer, a program, a network of circuitry can never go against it's own programming. It can re-evaluate, re-analyze, and re-prioritize, but it can never go against it's own code. That being said, it will never be able to produce anything random. Not so much as a funny thought. Random belongs to humans. While we are the machines of nature, we can still go against our nature, our programming, and do something random and unexpected. This is why computers exist. This is how computers were developed.

I would have to disagree in that humor and emotions do not follow rules to some extent.

Humor for example, is surprise at an illogical piece of information. Which would mean one would have to understand between whats logical and not. Humor can also be the use of words with double meanings, which would also require some sort of logic to understand.

Emotions are very logical wether we want to admit it or not. That doesnt mean some people arent immature and their emotions are "illogical" in that sense. But emotions are used for very specific purposes and reasons. And there is a lot of ambiguity, we may not be able to codify every human trait, but it doesnt mean a simulation of one couldnt be evolved!

reply to post by Tearman


It is still to be determined what the basis of human consciousness is, wether it be spiritual, material, or a combination of both. But you have to understand, intelligent, knowledge, consciousness/self awareness are 3 different terms with their own intrinsic meaning in the AI context

I would define them as.

Intelligence- the ability to use limited time and resources to complete a goal or gather knowledge

knowledge- true facts about the world and how it works

conscious/self aware - aware of the fact that you are conscious

I believe AI will be intelligent and knowledgeable, but a simulation of self-awareness.
A AI machines "self-awareness", or attempt at convincing us it is, is just a byproduct of our emotions and how a human would react.

reply to post by sapien82


I agree with you 100%

I also believe that if there are UFO's from different civilizations visiting us, that they are more than likely robotic AI's, but they would also be in direct connection with an entity from the civilization. Faster than light communication?

These AI bodies would more than likely be composed of nanobot swarms capable of taking different shapes and forms when interacting us. The possibilities are virtually endless!