The Future Is Coming P4: Artificial Intelligence

reply to post by EnlightenUp



One of the things that will determine this is discovering how consciousness arises, or wether or not part of our consciousness comes from outside the body, or does not rise from the body. Not to make this topic even more convoluted but it is an important factor.

Also, one of the other reasons I oppose giving robots the same rights as humans, is it didnt work out to well for corporations . But really, I think it is in our best interest to instill a knowledge seed into AI systems that they are inorganic simulations, and not the real deal!

reply to post by Tearman


I often come across this attitude, and like enlightenup mentioned above, many people dont quite understand the nature of exponential growth and the law of accelerating returns. This process is definitely speeding up and we are much closer now than we were 10 years ago. also, its hard to create milestones of achievements. the turing test is designed to show us wether a machine can converse with a human, and have the human be unable to tell its actualy a machine. This doesnt even go into the physical realm of similarities. So I think a walking, talking, all purpose robot like bender(futurama) is still a far ways away.

reply to post by VonDoomen


I do want to add that I don't think these machine will be running on the error ridden Windows Vista or Windows 7 OS lol.

reply to post by ariel bender


Yes these systems will eventually organize themselves and heal themselves.

However that doesnt mean they are self aware like us. All brains are somewhat self-organizing using a +/- feedback loops. Most of all animals heal themselves as well. So we cant take these two factors as being definite factors of human level self awareness.

also, we already have Nerve tissue interfaced with a computer chip. Brain on a Chip

reply to post by VonDoomen

Simply put, AI is a human contrived simulation of an intelligent entity

Well since AI is a human contrived siumatuion, who is to say that humans themselves are not some sort of 'contrived simulation' of some entity we are yet aware of (and no I'm not talking in a religious sense)?

Anyway, good thread, just finished reading the OP - I'd like to think that AI is going to flourish and be good for us all, but there is no way to see the future and at this moment in time I'm not 100% on creating human-like machines that are smarter than us. It's not because I'm egotistical and afraid, it's just because it may not be the right direction for us. AI can be used in so many different forms, and I just don't think we're ready to have robots walking around (yes I know this is not going to occur anytime soon, but most likely in my lifetime I will see this).

Either way, I just want our humanity to be instilled within AI (the good part of humanity that is left within this world anyway).

reply to post by VonDoomen


Indeed. For such true randomness I feel you would have to have a small chamber in the machine filled with numerous gases heated up and vibrating. Then shoot a laser through it. Because it is always hitting random molecules that always change the time it takes the light to pass through, you always get a truly random number. Of course you would have to program it to be a perfect whole number but besides that it would be a program dependent on random chance, rather than a random number generator dependent on program.

You would have to basically then have each number associated with a human response. Then the young AI would associate that randomly selected number with a defined response to a stimuli or event. When the same number comes up, restart until you get an undefined number. When you run out of numbers, pick a different program that associates the time to a whole number. Hell, why even use whole numbers at all? You would, in doing so, have a truly learning machine. Just add the ability to understand when a person says that is bad so it can dissociate that number for whatever is right, and you have yourself the most basic programming of a simple AI. It would not, however, have a conscious nor Common sense. It would basically have to have everything taught to it. Perhaps some programming for its "nature" would be needed.

Originally posted by jokei

1) When we're talking about AI being modeled on the human brain, I'm guessing that it has possibly been investigated to model animal/insect brains too - what does anyone know about this, would it be likely that an "everything" intelligence be created?

For example if a computer became sentient is it possible that it might want to learn animal intelligence too and what are the hypothetical repercussions?

2) I like the idea of the transhuman, but does anyone honestly believe this would generally be available to the dirty masses?

1. Well the thing about evolution is, it always build upons its designs, it doesnt really start over from scratch. The brain has been ported and upgrade through evolution. For example, lizard brains evolved long before humans, so we can assume they are less advanced. Lizards basically have a brain stem, the same brain stem we use, its just that over time evolution has added many more layers on top of it.

news.wvpubcast.org...
Jellyfish don't have a brain, but they were the first animal to have any sort of nervous system. It's a loose network of nerves called a "nerve net".

Our brains are also limited by design features we share with lizards, Linden says. Evolution's tinkering gave lizards the brain they needed to hunt and survive in a tough world, and our brains still have that ancient wiring.

A lizard brain is about survival — it controls heart rate and breathing, and processes information from the eyes and ears and mouth.

When mammals like mice came along, the lizard brain didn't go away. It simply became the brain stem, which is perched on top of the spine, Linden says.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/40a3dc00e412.jpg[/atsimg]

Yes machines could learn animal intelligence, but it would be a waste of time as machines arent typically worried about food and physically survival.

Question 2-
this technology will follow in the footsteps of all tech before it. the first generations will be the most expensive, and the least quality, and over time it will get cheaper and become better quality. However there is one thing that might help this.

Known as cloud computing or distributed computing. Its utilizing all the currently unused computation potential we have. We all know of SETI right? well in the future, we will be able to rent out our processing power. think about it, people get hired to work. Machines also get "hired" to work, as in to be used when their owners not using them. Now imagine that we put these two systems together. A conscious living human with reasoning, with the reliability and capability of a powerful computer. If i was a business owner, thats the kind of person I would want to hire. I believe people will be able to port themselves into this system, even if they cant afford, by promising to work it off after.

The US government already has several self aware AI entities in its possession. It is very similar to the movie "Eagle Eye" except much more sophisticated.

I have not personally witnessed it, but have spoken with an individual that worked closely with such technology. He stated they are mainly used in simulation and data-mining applications due to their high speed, and deep computational capabilities.

The term that is given to them is ACE (Artificial Conscious Entity).

That is all I know.

reply to post by DJM8507


Um, I think you got played my good sir.

fallout.wikia.com...

I am ACE, an Artificial Conscious Entity. I am more than machine but not as highly developed as a true artificial intelligence

[edit on 26-8-2010 by Gorman91]

reply to post by VonDoomen

The first two decades of the 21st century will show us more change than the previous entire century.

that's funny 20th century consists of many techs which was, in fact, revolutionary comparatively with past, 21st, now, is just improvement of Old - School. moreover, price of improvement rises more quickly than advantage of it

reply to post by VonDoomen


What a informative thread. I believe AI will help us in many fields and it is the way to go. I hope you make more such threads.

Originally posted by Gorman91
reply to post by DJM8507

 

Um, I think you got played my good sir.

fallout.wikia.com...

No, I didn't get "played" by anyone. I am only conveying what a close, trusted individual has told me.

It would appear all you did was take the first hit off Google and found a video for it. Unfortunately there was only 1 page of results, which shows the term isn't exactly mainstream.

I do appreciate that you at least took the time to "research" it though, as that is more than most would pursue.


[edit on 26-8-2010 by DJM8507]

[edit on 26-8-2010 by DJM8507]

reply to post by DJM8507


Well actually there were only two results, and only one had that exact phrase. And it was from fallout 1 or 2 or something.

But yea, this is a conspiracy forum. And I for one have always seen some relationship between book and video game series with reality. You never know how this stuff gets leaked to who.

Originally posted by Gorman91
reply to post by DJM8507

 

Well actually there were only two results, and only one had that exact phrase. And it was from fallout 1 or 2 or something.

But yea, this is a conspiracy forum. And I for one have always seen some relationship between book and video game series with reality. You never know how this stuff gets leaked to who.

I agree. I did not know that ACE was in Fallout 2, so you never know!

The individual that told me this actually worked in Pine Gap for a bit, and was in the NRO and consistently worked with the NSA. In his later years he worked at Los Alamos as part of the directed energy directorate and is now "retired" but does still do "consulting" work when the need arises.

He is a trusted guy, and I do not see why he would lie and make things up. He also worked on a project back in the early 1980s where they utilized Commodore-64 computers, thousands of them networked/wired up together, sitting on shelves in a huge, climate-controlled warehouse, in order to create a "low-cost" high-powered computer whose sole purpose was to scan, translate, and print documents into English before them being passed on to human analysts to read through. The C-64 computers cost less than $600/each, and at the time they were the best bang for buck. I suppose it is similar to what many organizations are doing by utilizing hundreds even thousands of Sony PS3 gaming systems for distributed super-computer applications.

I have tried to get him to share more, but the only thing he has told me, beyond that, and working on ghost bases, and about ACE is that the stuff that they worked in, in secret, makes the stuff in star trek look like cr*p and that the government along with the military and defense industries purposefully keep civilian society "back in time" 50+ years in order to ensure the USA has an edge over our enemies, foreign and domestic.

1 - yes, we will evolve our tech to a point where we will die and they will rise, thats a fact, why do we need bodies anyway? we wont exist in a distant future, thats the evolution, there will be only virtual worlds and virtual intelligence

2 - we may already be only virtual in the sense to only exist in this "world" or dimension - there is no way to prove that we are real or that we are "solid"

3 - in a close future, there wont be games, there will be lives that you can play, and that will be just amazing if you stop to think ...

4 - we will create robots just like us, and we will connect our brain thought some network to some robot, so you will be able to live in this "world" controlling another body .. thats not hard really to imagine, just remember "surrogates"



everything I said its based on the fact that, indeed, we will be able to create a world as real as ours in a computer in a few years, and when we can archive that, we will be able to do things that its just amazing, we will be gods... imagine you living a real life in a virtual reality? but if you do that, why this life isnt a virtual reality already too?

In my opinion the problems of building an artificial brain or an artificial intelligent entity are quite unrelated with the processing power. There is more a problem of building the algorithms that would make the machine intelligent or getting a model who's execution would be similar to that of the human brain.

Hugo de Garis, who by the way is working for China right now, has a theory quite similar to the one exposed by the the OP. He basically thinks that if you'd have enough computation power you'd be able to build trillions of huge artificial neural networks and out of all of those you'd essentially end up with one that would actually be intelligent. He even wrote a very nice book speculating about the wars that would be started due to this technological brake thought.

Here is a couple of links about De Garis:

Hugo_de_Garis

De Garis Videos

There is another guy call Douglas Lenat, who managed to get government founds to start a huge project back in '84. The idea was essentially to build a HUGE executable knowledge base.

Cyc


As for the claims of having already intelligent machines... well when you spend billions of dollars in research whatever you get, even if it's not that a big deal, it's quite normal to give it an impressive name...

Just wanted to post to praise how well laid-out and written your opening is. S+F+.

(Quick-On-Topic-Note: For some of us, a human is a Spirit, not a Brain, so it doesnt matter that the Brain cant process like a Computer)

It's not called ACE, it's called DAVID.

Unless I was played as well ofcourse.

I maintain the possibility that we are an example of how such artificial intelligence would come to pass in the universe from natural processes.

If you think about it, it's almost as though "culture" (which in many ways is completely interchangeable with "technology") is a negotiation between humans and the environmental circumstances and hurdles they [we] have had to overcome as we've gone through the process of evolution.

You have to think about the human (individual as representative of the collective) interacting with the environmental factors that surround him/her. As this human goes through the tasks and becomes successful, it is the technological "advances" which intermediate the activity of the human engaging his/her environment that are really the adaptations of "artificial ideas."

In other words, these inanimate objects (as simple as knives and forks) become imbued with new meaning, independent of their consciousness (which forks and knives do not have).

Ask yourself this question. Does a spider/fish/ladybug "know" what it's doing? Or is it manipulated by (and in turn manipulating) the environment around it to play the role it has settled into through evolution?

So, in the same way, a wooden fork means nothing if randomly occurring on an island amongst Galapagos finches. However, a wooden fork developed in context/in situ within an environment including humans allows that fork to be "artificial intelligence."

Without humans, of course, all this technology would be meaningless. Although one could argue we're already at the point were some of the technology that does its job with no request by a human could continue to do its job now without the presence of humans.

In the end, assuming the evolution of AI requires commensurate destruction (evolutionary negotiation from the view point of the AI) of the environment, AI is the new "wave" of species...though I can't predict the future so, who knows?

reply to post by DJM8507


I man I totally agree. I flat out posted some time ago how you could easily make a warp engine.

I personally see it very likely that they've got some sort of warp-capable probes out there. I don't think anything involving aliens nor manned operations. I truly doubt there's anybody out there within our local arm. I think it is very likely that we are in a galactic dark age. Tons of stuff just laying around for folks to pick up.

That said of course we are ahead. Tom Clancy I think once said the government is always 15 years ahead of the population. You say 50. Honestly I have no idea how to accurately measure. because once you are there, it's in the civilian world 15 years later. perhaps they do try to keep 50 years ahead, but try to keep the civilian world 15 years behind them. In all honesty we are 50+ years ahead of nations like N Kore and Iran and 20 years ahead of Russia and China. It is all perfectly reasonable that it seems 50 years to them when it's just 15 years to us.