wikileaks releases CIA paper

Btw, I think we're missing (or at least I was missing) the most important element of todays 'leak.'

Let's put aside for the moment the whole WL = CIA theory, for which there is to date no evidence and I find highly unlikely.

Todays 'move' shows something significant, not in the content of the document but in the document itself. It's one think to get the Afghan papers/video from some righteous mid-lever armed forces dude. It is a completely different thing to have a mole and access to "secret" designated CIA communications.

This is primarily a show of force ... in this high stakes poker game developing before us on a daily basis, this is simply the latest move. I'm sure there's a few folks over at Langley as we speak setting witch-hunts in motion trying to figure out how the hell WL got that and what else they might have.

These are all small moves by both parties to see if the other will back down ... no one has shot their 'you know what' yet.

reply to post by schrodingers dog


exactly the point. the doc isn't earth-shattering but interesting none the less.

some people seem to assume that all cia must be on the same side and all willing to protect their dirty secrets. not all americans agree with american policies! some may be taking a final stand...

i still maintain this is just a warning shot release. it will be interesting to see the response.

there is still the immanent release of the 15k docs within the next few weeks to be considered....

reply to post by justyc


Yeah and staying away from everything else is not quite as easy as you might think.
Take it as you wish.

Ok, I see there are many, who are annoyed with WL. I, on the other hand, am not.

Sure, this document is not so impressive, but at least, they're doing something.
It kind of looks like a message to CIA, they announced that they will realese CIA papers and gave CIA time to think about it - what kind of documents that might be? And ok, this time, no biggie, but what might come next?
And maybe there's something in between the lines, we fail to see.

Also, many of you complain, that if they know something, they should share it imidiately. But aren't WL all about verifying their sources and documents, before presenting them to poeple?
And I can wait. Those of you who can't, should re-read, susp3kt's post

If you aren't satisfied with the quality of the dirt of what is being leaked, then why don't you do something about it?

Originally posted by schrodingers dog
These are all small moves by both parties to see if the other will back down ... no one has shot their 'you know what' yet.

And it is easy to assume at this point no one has a 'you know what' to shoot off.

But with the right bait, someone with 'it' may come forward to "leak" 'it'.

Clearly, this leak and everything before it has a meaning beyond the grasp of everyone here.

Please, feel free to alert me when someone shoots their "you know what' off will ya?





[edit on 25-8-2010 by Fractured.Facade]

Originally posted by schrodingers dog

These are all small moves by both parties to see if the other will back down ... no one has shot their 'you know what' yet.

I agree. And I also think part of the problem with our "disappointment" is our self centeredness. When you consider these two CIA leaks from the point of view of people in foreign governments or lands, they are pretty damaging.

One of the reasons I was so taken with the CIA Afghanistan leak was because through it, you could get a clear view of how the CIA manipulates info in the MSM. They were admitting to subverting the will of the voters abroad, by implication you should have been able to discern the same thing was happening here at home. Which is not insignificant at ALL in a democracy.

Not only is this a power play between Wikileaks and the CIA, but I can imagine that an admission that we have no intent of reciprocating with partners we have been manipulating with sob stories WILL have an impact on how they deal with us in the near future.

I know personally that if I had a "friend" and I found out that that "friend" was deliberately manipulating me by playing off my sympathy over the death of their child, and then was planning how to avoid ever having to do me any return favors in the future, you can bet your sweet ash that I would cut that "friend" off so fast and so thoroughly their head would spin.

Originally posted by xiuhtecuhtli
And maybe there's something in between the lines, we fail to see.

or...

the message may be that wl DOES have proof the cia/usa HAS been involved in terrorist attacks.

how well would that go down?

Perhaps the leak is coming through the Pentagon Mosque.
What better way to get rid of the infidel in Afghanistan than to publish
the secret war that is much like TV for Nam but did no good
except for the TV mass media in ratings and wasted air time in
making them illuminati fat cats.
The same that supported the Moon Landings.
The same that covers up 'alien' technology yesteryears and today.
So the Pentagon has leaks, so now they are good guys.

I'm of the opinion that these two sides are actually going at it. However, considering the extreme amount of pressure that WikiLeaks is experiencing, what happens when they run out of new documents to use as bargaining chips?

They said themselves that they are going to publish everything that they are getting, so when they run out, they lose all their steam and suddenly, outside the media's attention, Assange will have an 'accident' while rock climbing in some country.

For now, however, the spitting contest continues:

BBC Article about the CIA Paper

The website now says it will release 15,000 further sensitive documents, once it has completed a review aimed at minimising the risk that their publication could put people's lives in danger.

I'm betting this document was bait, and Assange took it. Give it a few days and watch the CIA demonstrate beyond a shadow of a doubt that the paper is propaganda intel they use in overseas operations. A few more phoney documents leaked through various sources, discredited in due time, and no one will believe anything that comes out of Wikileaks.

S&F, but

GOOD LORD! AND YIKES!!!!!!!!!!


This document does NOT say what I thought it might - there is NO admision of government culpability. Instead...

it is a manifesto, designed to justify curtailing our rights and freedoms, especially Internet access.

The document specifically states that "American Freedoms Facilitate Terrorist Recruitment and Operations,"

...and backs it up with the declaration that "Americans can be great assets in terrorist operations overseas because... (of) their unfettered access to the internet and other modes of communication."

American Freedoms Facilitate Terrorist Recruitment and Operations
Primarily we have been concerned about Al-Qa’ida infiltrating operatives into the United States to conduct terrorist attacks, but AQ may be increasingly looking for Americans to operate overseas. Undoubtedly Al-Qa’ida and other terrorist groups recognize that Americans can be great assets in terrorist operations overseas because they carry US passports, don’t fit the typical Arab-Muslim profile, and can easily communicate with radical leaders through their unfettered access to the internet and other modes of communication.

.....they're saying WE, ordinary Americans, are the terrorists exporting terrorism because our freedoms allow us to .....


OMG. What a weasel.

reply to post by soficrow


it could also mean that a few americans would be perfectly happy to commit terrorist offences to protect their 'freedoms' couldn't it? wouldn't be the first time that's happened

What this document says to me is..It is cleary a thought provoking piece of work. One would have to look back in history to understand the revelance of today...Merely an analytical approach "Analytical Thinkers" come up with ways on how to deal with particular issues and problems. Although this document doesnt appear to be significant I have to wonder why wls picked this particular document. Could it be wls is playing a Psychological game by distracting the world audience therefore allowing Mr JA to takecare of matters in sweden. After all if wls released a highly significant document at this stage the pressure on Mr JA would be to much to bear considering the media and goverment attention it would draw.
Here is my anaytical 2 cents worth
This whole situation in the world today is almost like a grand game being played out in the world arena. This grand game has been played for decades and decades where there is players namely countries, heads of states, goverment agencies, finance, military, resourses.
In this game alliances and allies are made sometimes fickle. During the course of this grand game back door dealings goes on that other countries are suspicious or not aware of (I thinking that is what manning was trying to saying) which would not go down well with the populace. Here walks into the grand game the new kid in town wls who on behalf of the world populace triumphs with transparancy exposing the dynamics and the secerts these players keep from each other. These players dont like the new kid in town because he transfers the power of democarcy from the players to the populace. So therefore the players will do all the can to push this new kid in town out of the grand game using methods i.e dis information, dis-credit, propaganda.
Well thats my 2 cents worth I will continue to watch carefully how it all plays out


[edit on 25-8-2010 by Relaxfreedom]

reply to post by soficrow

No, i think what they are literally trying to say in that paragraph is that NSA fails at intercepting communications over the internet, FBI and others fail at infiltrating local groups of interest and the CIA can't do the job for all of them where they shouldn't, so they will all fail miserably together. Business as usual.

Originally posted by EFGuy
I'm disappointed. Thought it was the 15K documents pending, was eagerly awaiting them. Though these current documents are also vital and shed light on some important things.

It was confirmed from Julian Assange in Sweden last week that the batch of 15.000 document will be available in a couple of weeks.

I posted the confirmation with links from Assange in this thread last week!

www.abovetopsecret.com...

"WikiLeaks To Release The Remaining 15,000 Classified Documents Within "The Next Two To Four Weeks"

Regards!

Originally posted by justyc
reply to post by soficrow

 

it could also mean that a few americans would be perfectly happy to commit terrorist offences to protect their 'freedoms' couldn't it? wouldn't be the first time that's happened

True, but...

This is our intelligence. Let's analyze it... It's a government document - and such documents always have a purpose. ...But the stated "purpose" at the top of the page is actually the "argument":

This report examines the implications of what it would mean for the US to be seen increasingly as an incubator and “exporter of terrorism.”

...That's really saying that the US actually is increasingly seen as an incubator and “exporter of terrorism,” then 'explains' it's because...
- Individual US citizens become terrorists (NOT because government and government-related agencies commit terrorist acts), and then
- Claims our "Rights and Freedoms," and Free Internet Access, turn individual US citizens into terrorists.

SO:
1. The Problem is that the US is increasingly seen as an incubator and “exporter of terrorism” - a real problem; and
2. The Solution is to block Net Neutrality, if not curtail other individual Rights and Freedoms - implied and arguably false.

At the very least, this document WILL be referenced to argue against Net Neutrality. Perhaps that's it's real purpose...

But it's a bit premature to talk about "a few americans (who) would be perfectly happy to commit terrorist offences to protect their 'freedoms'." Dontcha think?

Originally posted by soficrow
But it's a bit premature to talk about "a few americans (who) would be perfectly happy to commit terrorist offences to protect their 'freedoms'." Dontcha think?

perhaps the good folk of Oklahoma thought the same thing at the time. you can (usually) never tell when when an attack may happen or by who is behind it.

just saying...

Originally posted by the.krio
reply to post by soficrow

 

No, i think what they are literally trying to say in that paragraph is that NSA fails at intercepting communications over the internet, FBI and others fail at infiltrating local groups of interest and the CIA can't do the job for all of them where they shouldn't, so they will all fail miserably together. Business as usual.

I agree there's a cover-your-butt component.

BUT...

This memo was prepared by the CIA Red Cell, which has been charged by the Director of Intelligence with taking a pronounced "out-of-the-box" approach that will provoke thought and offer an alternative viewpoint on the full range of analytic issues.

Bureaucratic bosses have old, established loyalties that usually have little to do with current/new administrations. ...Most likely they were directed to look at improving America's international reputation vis-a-vis charges of terrorism, and went from there...

So it's an opportunistic play designed to kill a few birds with one stone. As you say, even working together, all the agencies can't monitor the Internet, and the CIA for sure can't do it alone. Easy answer: shut it down. Why? Cuz it turns US citizens into terrorists, thereby damaging the nation's international reputation. ...There - they served 2 masters and did the job they were told to do well enough to be defended legally, which is all that counts in that particular world.

Originally posted by justyc

it could also mean that a few americans would be perfectly happy to commit terrorist offences to protect their 'freedoms' couldn't it? wouldn't be the first time that's happened

Well they do call the Irish, who were fighting to regain control of their own country, "terrorists" so what would that make us if we stood up to those who are in the process of staging a coup in slow motion as we speak?

Sorry English readers, if backing Ireland offends you. Its wrong to take over other peoples countries. Its wrong when the US does it too. Nothing personal.

And good point to the poster that points out the hint that it is our "freedoms" that are the problem. But we didnt really need a CIA document to know they were going after our freedoms. We have Rockefeller ranting on video about how letting us have the internet was the worst thing the elite............errr.......our elected leaders ever did.

Originally posted by sremmos
Why is this report a propaganda piece about the threat of US citizens committing terrorism abroad?

This looks like a controlled leak to me.

All the document does is justify why the Government needs to work harder to restrict US citizens from traveling abroad.

I would not jump to the conclusion that this was meant for public consumption. I do agree with your assessment that it basically states that 'American Freedoms Facilitate Terrorist Recruitment'. Sounds like the problem-reaction-solution to this would be naturally to restrict more of our freedoms.

What we may be looking at is internal classified propaganda, not for the public, but for higher ups, to alter their perceptions toward a need for more restrictions on American Freedoms.

In the same way that Rumsfeld and Cheney persuaded Gitmo to use torture techniques known to illicit false confessions... this document may be a form a propaganda to push certain internal elements to get on board with the idea of fewer freedoms for Americans in the name of national security.

The leak looks genuine to me, and disturbing.