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For the police haters

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posted on Aug, 25 2010 @ 01:41 PM
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Originally posted by Xiamara
reply to post by centurion1211
 


Well here I'll give you an example... Hmm maybe more victims? violent crimes get you serious jail time, Petty crimes lesser times, meaning repeat offenders. So more arrests you get arrested for each crime You really can't compare the two, violent crimes, cannot be compared to petty its apples and oranges.




The stats I posted show quite clearly that the premise you keep posting is false.

The cops are not catching even half of the violent criminals, so they're not being put away.

You can lead a horse to water ...




posted on Aug, 25 2010 @ 01:41 PM
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reply to post by robbinsj
 


In Canada that's what they do. Possession is a lesser crime and normally ends in a fine. We aim to now look at the dealers, and suppliers as well as gang violence, and other more major crimes I believe a fellow Canadian posted that we have slowly moved towards the violent crimes and away from petty for the past 20 years.



posted on Aug, 25 2010 @ 01:44 PM
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reply to post by robbinsj
 


Thanks, and I'm just supporting my opinions, I'd like to see the others in this thread look at a different angle. And see there are good cops. They seem to be looking only at the bad and not trying to see maybe other reasons for the stats, they read what they want to see I'm just giving alternatives.


I guess in their world people can't be free to have their own opinions, and the dead should be shooting their killers, and oh, rapists should just keep on raping. Mm date rape so easy to fight off, don't need them cops.



posted on Aug, 25 2010 @ 01:44 PM
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Originally posted by dizzie56

Originally posted by centurion1211

Originally posted by Xiamara
reply to post by eNumbra
 


No. I'm not saying that at all I'm saying crime rates will be lower because there will be fewer criminals on the streets as well, if there no cops who's going to arrest you punish you, no one. So the threat of getting caught is removed. So logically its safer to commit a crime.


Look at it again.

You only have to read down to Figure 1 to see that between 1975 and 2001 arrests for violent crimes occur at the rate of about 200 per 100,000 population while number of reported violent crimes fluctuates between 400 and 600 per 100,000 population.

At best a 50% arrest rate and at worst only a 33% arrest rate for violent crimes.

Time to tell your really nice cop friends to go out and actually take care of some violent crimes.


So your solution is no cops? Just take them all off of the street because you dont like the fact that you got a speeding ticket once or twice in your life and the cop that pulled you over was a douche. Give me a break.



No, you give me a break by showing me a quote where I ever suggested there should be no police at all.

Attempting to put words in my mouth is all you have left, the best you can do?

Time for you to find a new thread, or can you find a way to support your (tenuous) position with - you know - facts?



posted on Aug, 25 2010 @ 01:46 PM
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Originally posted by centurion1211

Originally posted by dizzie56

Truth. Comparing the amount of violent crimes to the amount of petty crimes is rediculous.


False.

You are now charged with the ATS "crime" of only reading what you agree with and none of the opposing views and their supporting documentation.

You have the right to remain silent, anything you say can and will be used against you ...



How so? You yourself made the comparison.


Originally posted by centurion1211
I showed you the stats for less than 50% arrest rates for serious crimes. By definition, that means cops aren't doing their jobs - either preventing crime as you think they do, or solving crime as most others understand their role to be.





But at the same time, cops are all over the easier, less dangerous crimes such as license expirations even though they are now all decked out with military grade weapons and equipment. Could that be why some people also call them cowards?


You compared their ability to catch serious crimes with less dangerous crimes. I dont argue that they have a harder time catching more violent crimes. The nature of the crime and the consequences of them as well allow the perps to be hidden from cops unless they turn themselves in alot of times. Not everybody is a rat and willing to turn for a buddy. I just argue that comparing something like serious crime to misdemeanors is rediculous as the ability to catch these things is waaaaaay easier then to catch a murderer who has the whole community silenced.

Also, you forgot to add "in the court of ATS" lol



posted on Aug, 25 2010 @ 01:47 PM
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I grew up surrounded by police. My dad was a city police officer for
twenty plus years and we had police company at my house all the time.
I played poker (for money) with them, ate with them, and listened to
their stories from an early age.

They are not all bad, and they are not all high-ego alpha-males -- for the
most part this is true, but even among the swaggering ego-types, there
are the John Wayne's who truly try to be fair.

Now, as you might expect, I wasn't a perfect child. A high school drop-out
with a lead foot, and a keen insight into the inner workings of police, coupled
with a fairly decent IQ and you have an ego driven smart-ass kid. I
have never once been disrespectful of policemen on a personal level,
(read: when apprehended/arrested), but I have been treated rather
poorly a few times. Once, with NO provocation, when picked up on
a traffic warrant while driving, I was thrown against my van so hard it
split my lip. Seriously, I was nothing but yes-sir-no-sir with this @hole,
and followed orders immediately- no resistance. After he cuffed me,
and put me in the car, I slipped the cuffs around in front of me.
I got kidney punched for that, and got my bleeding face rubbed into the
cement of the station parking lot...still no resistance.

There have been two other instances of being treated less than
humanely, and another time when I was offered this nugget
after being pulled over...

"...well, if you don't have anything to hide, you shouldn't mind if I look
around in your car."

My answer

"If I don't have anything to hide, you don't need to look around.

After a little more chat...I add,

"I'll make you a deal, you let me go to your house and dig thru your
sock drawer, I'll let you look around in my car."

That cost me two hours waiting for the drug sniffing canine which
DID mark my car...although their search turned up nothing.

Boy I got off on a rambling reminisce...

Anyway, cops aren't all bad. From the stories I have heard about the
way they are sometimes treated, it is a wonder more of them don't
fly off into a rage more often and show up in the news. Some of them
however, are/were @holes from the get-go.

[edit on 25-8-2010 by rival]



posted on Aug, 25 2010 @ 01:48 PM
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Originally posted by Xiamara
reply to post by robbinsj
 


Thanks, and I'm just supporting my opinions, I'd like to see the others in this thread look at a different angle. And see there are good cops. They seem to be looking only at the bad and not trying to see maybe other reasons for the stats, they read what they want to see I'm just giving alternatives.


No one here - including myself - is saying that there are only bad cops. We're saying that the number of bad cops is larger than you think it is and seems to be growing.

On the other hand, you seem to be saying that it's only just a few.

Maybe the stats are just telling it like it is. Maybe you should also consider that, and that your premise on this thread is also incorrect.

[edit on 8/25/2010 by centurion1211]



posted on Aug, 25 2010 @ 01:50 PM
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I've been burgled once (but I woke up during the break in and they ran), a friend of mine was also burgled and they got away with a lot of expensive stuff.

On both occasions I can't really think of any benefit that came from the police visiting the house as all they did is sit and take a statement and then leave, exactly the same thing could have been achieved over the phone.

Both sets of criminals from both burglaries were caught, one because they were an employee of the company that fitted my front door and the police already suspected him and the other because a patrol car drove by when he was in the middle of climbing through another persons window.

I guess there's just not much that an average cop can do, apart from maybe offer some sympathy in fact it would probably be better to send someone round who is highly trained in communication skills to get the most detailed statement.



posted on Aug, 25 2010 @ 01:55 PM
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Originally posted by centurion1211

So your solution is no cops? Just take them all off of the street because you dont like the fact that you got a speeding ticket once or twice in your life and the cop that pulled you over was a douche. Give me a break.



No, you give me a break by showing me a quote where I ever suggested there should be no police at all.

Attempting to put words in my mouth is all you have left, the best you can do?

Time for you to find a new thread, or can you find a way to support your (tenuous) position with - you know - facts?

I appologize if you think that I was trying to put words in your mouth. I was mearly trying to ask a question. What do you think should be done with the cop situation? Cause as I see it, you really do have a bone to pick with some cops since every post you have made is about cops being bad. And I agree, there are bad cops. But, I disagree that even a majority of cops are so.



posted on Aug, 25 2010 @ 01:55 PM
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Originally posted by dizzie56

You compared their ability to catch serious crimes with less dangerous crimes.


I'm trying to give your ability to understand simple graphs and text the benefit of the doubt, but it's getting more difficult with each of your posts.

Simply, the Figure 1 I mentioned ONLY refers to the number of violent crimes vs. the arrest rate for violent crimes. It does not attempt to compare those with lesser crimes.

Remember, you have been ATS "mirandized". Don't make me keep using your own words against you ...



posted on Aug, 25 2010 @ 02:00 PM
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Originally posted by dizzie56

I appologize if you think that I was trying to put words in your mouth. I was mearly trying to ask a question. What do you think should be done with the cop situation? Cause as I see it, you really do have a bone to pick with some cops since every post you have made is about cops being bad. And I agree, there are bad cops. But, I disagree that even a majority of cops are so.


Then ask it that way.

I wish I had a solution. I could say cops need more oversight, but who would that be? They already have a well-known code where they all protect each other. That makes it pretty near impossible to root out the bad cops.

What's your solution besides just adding more cops, which will statistically also just add more bad cops?



posted on Aug, 25 2010 @ 02:05 PM
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Originally posted by thisguyrighthere
Oh no! Now when I call 911 who will waltz in 25 minutes after I've already been raped beaten and robed?

In need of police. That's funny.


 
Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com
 



At my locale it had better be some EMT's with a gurney and a bag,
I'll handle cleaning up and repainting.

I dont see where this is about police hate, all I see is poor administration of monies and budgets.



posted on Aug, 25 2010 @ 02:05 PM
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Originally posted by centurion1211

Originally posted by dizzie56

You compared their ability to catch serious crimes with less dangerous crimes.


I'm trying to give your ability to understand simple graphs and text the benefit of the doubt, but it's getting more difficult with each of your posts.

Simply, the Figure 1 I mentioned ONLY refers to the number of violent crimes vs. the arrest rate for violent crimes. It does not attempt to compare those with lesser crimes.

Remember, you have been ATS "mirandized". Don't make me keep using your own words against you ...


I realize and understand exactly what the graph shows. But you said,



But at the same time, cops are all over the easier, less dangerous crimes such as license expirations even though they are now all decked out with military grade weapons and equipment.


which tends to imply that you have some knowledge of fact (im assuming) or source that could prove this. By stating exactly what you said above you brought the "less dangerous crimes" aspect into the arguement when you compared the two. And yes, you compared the two by saying they have a crap rate (ill admit) of catching violent crimes but "are all over the easier, less dangerous crimes". Maybe you dont understand how arguements go, but I can and will refute what you say as I expect you to do the same.

Maybe I can put it more simply for you. You said it and im saying that what you said shouldnt even apply. Comparing violent crime and nonviolent crime (which you yourself did) is not relevent in this discussion. Cool?



posted on Aug, 25 2010 @ 02:09 PM
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Originally posted by centurion1211

Originally posted by dizzie56

I appologize if you think that I was trying to put words in your mouth. I was mearly trying to ask a question. What do you think should be done with the cop situation? Cause as I see it, you really do have a bone to pick with some cops since every post you have made is about cops being bad. And I agree, there are bad cops. But, I disagree that even a majority of cops are so.


Then ask it that way.

I wish I had a solution. I could say cops need more oversight, but who would that be? They already have a well-known code where they all protect each other. That makes it pretty near impossible to root out the bad cops.

What's your solution besides just adding more cops, which will statistically also just add more bad cops?


I like yourself dont have much of a solution either. But, I dont believe that not sending out somebody to at least check the house out before you go in after you realize its broken into is not a good thing. I do believe that the bad ones need to be rooted out no matter how hard it is. And I never said adding more cops to the streets will help what so ever. Just saying that cutting down the police force so much will never add more arrests.



posted on Aug, 25 2010 @ 02:30 PM
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Originally posted by Xiamara
wow... this is wow. I think the police should just stop responding to the people who hate on them. I think the men an women on the force deserve some respect. I know 2 cops and its amazing what people say to them they put their butts on the line to keep your neighborhood safe. So there are a few dirty cops but there are bad people in any work place the police just get the attention of the media.


you are always babbling on about how much you like cops. what is wrong with you? are you some kind of holster sniffer? yeah they are probably nice to women, me on the other hand i have been cuffed and thrown on my face on the sidewalk, elbowed in the stomach, and locked up in a cell for no reason for like 5 hours before they would let me go. whatever is going on in your . isn't the reality of the situation. cops are pigs who abuse their power. i don't know what planet all of you come from but in my mind they are nothing more than regular people who think they are high and mighty when they piss standing up and bleed the same as me. i refuse to acknowledge their bullsh#t laws, they aren't mine. no man has the right to control me, we are all FREE and CREATED EQUAL.

[edit on 25-8-2010 by 2weird2live2rare2die]



posted on Aug, 25 2010 @ 02:33 PM
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Originally posted by dizzie56

But, I dont believe that not sending out somebody to at least check the house out before you go in after you realize its broken into is not a good thing.


I was surprised to hear they still do this in the US. A friend who went home one day to find his house broken into and trashed called the police, and their exact words were "what do you want me to do about it? Call your insurance company". That was about 20 years ago in Vancouver. After every neighbour around him had also been broken into already.

What if the burglar is still in there? Call a neighbour to go in with you.

Me? I have 3 dogs. Best protection allowed up here.



posted on Aug, 25 2010 @ 02:52 PM
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Cops have always made me nervous, not that they scare me, I just dont trust them on the whole. It is like being around a two faced person with a seperate agenda from the rest of society, better than the regular person, able to unleash hell on an individual if they choose because of the badge.



posted on Aug, 25 2010 @ 02:57 PM
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Originally posted by Xiamara
reply to post by p51mustang
 


Really so that rapist that was on my campus, I could handle him? riiight I'll do that and tell you how that works out.


What is it that the cops say, "don't fight the rapist, just let him do what he's going to do and then call the police when he leaves and make sure you keep your thighs tight together afterward so the rape kit works."

Ain't that a big help!

When I lived in South Africa in the 80's for a brief 4 years, I packed a 44 and a 9p every day, every where and you know, so did most everyone else (some kind of CC'd gun), except the whiny PC liberal @sswipe crowd who wanted to sing Koom by Ya while there wives and kids were being raped and murdered occasionally. But I guess the oddest thing about so many people being armed was, the violent crime rate went down, way down and rarely if ever were there any gun fights, at least not between law abiding people.

Now SA has a huge police force with a big yellow stripe from their arse to their fore.s and they are disarming the law abiding citizens. So what happens, crime rates go through the roof, South Africa is now one of the two most dangerous places in the world to visit or live.

So, did the police, those Janitors with Guns, help or hurt? Did the @sswipe PC liberals and their scumbag ANC politicians from the politboro make things better or worse? Is the same thing happening, just on a slower scale in north america and europe? I think the answers and the majority would agree are HURT, WORSE and YES!

If you want to find the reason for why governments have structured police forces, the law and everything in society the way they have, just add a "T" in front of that word reason and you have a good portion of the answer. Our politicians don't work for us, they work for something far more evil than even themselves and Rothschild may or may not be the top of the food chain. There might be someone worse pulling his/their strings.

/Rant... Now all the PC Zombies can continue to emulate ostriches which when their .s are up are noisy, bitchy and attack anything they don't like, but when they don't want to see something, we all know how far south those .s go.

Cheers - Dave

PS. You know why Monsanto made Terminate Seeds? It was so people couldn't grow a brain, even a single one between them.



posted on Aug, 25 2010 @ 03:05 PM
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This is GREAT!...
This just means that when I catch some S.O.B.that broke into my house trolling around. I can lay a couple holes in that lucky guy and dump his body in the trash can and not worry with all the paper work...kuddo's I'm all for this. In theory of course..



posted on Aug, 25 2010 @ 03:13 PM
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Originally posted by dizzie56

Originally posted by rebeldog
reply to post by dizzie56
 

mmmmmm... koolaid good, mmmmmmm what is your fave flave? grape?


Nope, never been in the military. Never arrested, was fortunate to get out of some of the things I did and never got caught up for some of the dumber things that I have done. Other members of my family, not so much luck as me.

How about you answer my question like a grown up instead of acting like the keyboard warrior that you seem to be? Name calling is for children like yourself.

And you talk about koolaid drinking? Really? You are just jumping on the cop-hating bandwagon instead of dealling with the real issues. Cops enforce laws. Laws are created by our communities. If you dont like the fact that cops enforce the laws, get them changed. Im the buffoon when you dont even understand how our government works. Its actually quite simple to tell you the truth.


Finding a good cop is like winning the lottery and the odds are about the same.

You may be a good cop, if you are, you won't last, start looking for a new job. It happened to one of my relatives, he was a good cop. He wrote the reports on corruption and malfeasance in the city police department. He was run out, not even on trumped up charges. They just made it so hard for him it was painful, of course the death threats from other cops didn't help.

If you are a good cop, more power to you, but you will never change the system, it's rotten to the core and even good cops get painted with the same brush because of the incredibly higher numbers of bad cops. Just look at the G20 in Toronto!

Btw, yes communities/government through people make the laws. Problem is those people are just as corrupt as the people they answer to and it isn't "the people." The law makers, judges, politicians and bureaucrats are just puppets along for the ride.

How's that hope and change working out for ya?

Cheers - Dave



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