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Originally posted by Jean Paul Zodeaux
reply to post by GhostLancer
Oh, I see, the "SHADOW GOV", as opposed to the government you advocate were guilty of this failure, but when it comes a violation of the 4th Amendment, the government you advocate will violate it in the name of "security", and "public order", and we don't have anything to fear from the "SHADOW GOV" in this regard. Is that the gist of your backpedaling?
-----I think people REALIZE that the *facade* government (the one we elect, the one we recognize) is QUITE INDEPENDENT of the "shadow government" that is comprised of CLANDESTINE ELEMENTS who are quite wealthy, powerful and thus INFLUENTIAL transcending 4-year increments of power. There are things to be "feared" from both. But, at least, the VISIBLE government is there to KEEP US SAFE.
-----There can be no "domestic tranquility" WITHOUT *public order.*
And yet, you have declared the "SHADOW GOV" as being the "REAL" power, and if that is true then this is your "public order".
-----Again, see above.
How can you "tranquilly mow your lawn" if some TERRORIST is allowed to poison your lawn?
"Allowed"? Pay close attention to your words. Terrorist do not terrorize because they are "allowed" to do so...[/quote]
-----Ahhhh.... But YES. TERRORISTS ARE *ALLOWED* to do harm WHEN GOVERNMENTS TAKE LITTLE OR NO ACTION. Does a pit-bull dog just mangle or kill a child with nothing before or after the incident? No. The pit bull was ALLOWED to attack because the master took no action to STOP it; the pit bull was ALLOWED to attack because the victim's friends/family did not ANTICIPATE the attack when the pit bull was in sight. If you KNOW a den of poisonous snakes is in your yard, and you take no action to PREVENT potential BITES, then you have ALLOWED those vipers to KILL.
Ah yes, you, bless your heart, in your chuckling "SAFETY", are infinitely wiser than Ben Franklin, simply by virtue of your modern existence.
-----No, not in the least. In fact, he was one of the greatest Americans ever to trod this continent. However, he was SEVERELY CRIPPLED by the fact that he lived 200 years before our time, and could not possibly know of heavier-than-air-FLIGHT, Nicholas TESLA, the atomic bomb, SPACE FLIGHT and modern computers. Hats off to him, and his 80+ fathered children. A true American PATRIOT. However, a "modern" existence means that we know a bit about the road ahead that he had no idea of.
There are things to be "feared" from both. But, at least, the VISIBLE government is there to KEEP US SAFE.
-----Ahhhh.... But YES. TERRORISTS ARE *ALLOWED* to do harm WHEN GOVERNMENTS TAKE LITTLE OR NO ACTION.
The pit bull was ALLOWED to attack because the master took no action to STOP it; the pit bull was ALLOWED to attack because the victim's friends/family did not ANTICIPATE the attack when the pit bull was in sight. If you KNOW a den of poisonous snakes is in your yard, and you take no action to PREVENT potential BITES, then you have ALLOWED those vipers to KILL.
-----No, not in the least. In fact, he was one of the greatest Americans ever to trod this continent. However, he was SEVERELY CRIPPLED by the fact that he lived 200 years before our time, and could not possibly know of heavier-than-air-FLIGHT, Nicholas TESLA, the atomic bomb, SPACE FLIGHT and modern computers.
Originally posted by Jean Paul Zodeaux
reply to post by GhostLancer
And yet, by your own admission, they have demonstrably failed at a task not mandated to them by Constitution in The United States.
-----Failing and *completely* failing different. It is a matter of scale. Also, it is one thing to TRY to stop terrorists, and another thing to sit back and allow it to happen. Some attacks will get through, as in 9/11; many are blocked. Because one attack succeeds doesn't mean it was "allowed" to happen; it just means we did everything we could, and somehow they managed to get through. Sitting back and doing nothing "allows" terrorists to succeed unchallenged. That is my definition on "allows" and point of view.
No government, local, State, or federal, has been mandated with keeping the people safe. This is your fancy, and has nothing at all to do with Constitutional law.
-----How many people out there know by heart what is written on many police cars? The motto: "To Protect and Serve." To me, "protection" equates to "keeping people safe." Another one: our military are REQUIRED TO TAKE AN OATH to "uphold and defend" the Constitution from enemies. "Defend" to me equates to "keeping people safe." I disagree with your assertion. Our cops, firefighters, military and government agents (wrongly called "spooks" because they are good people taking care of us all) are there to KEEP US SAFE. Again, do you hear gunfire outside your window? No. Why? Because the government has cast a protective blanket over us. We are somewhat safe against terrorists. We are more likely to have our own citizens hurt us right now.
This is just more sophistry on your part. By your logic, the murders, rapes and theft that happen on a regular basis, happen because government allows them to happen.
-----We're talking about a government-implemented GPS tracking program here to find TERRORISTS. By my logic, my statements make sense. You keep taking them into other contexts. But, to answer your charge, the gov doesn't "allow" murders, rapes and theft to happen, --in the sense of "allowed" as I explained above. They are trying to PREVENT these things, but humans aren't perfect. Organizations do make mistakes and are not 100% capable of preventing all the mayhem. But they TRY, therefore they do not "allow." If they didn't try to stop all the crime, then YES, they'd be guilty of "allowing."
You tend to nitpick and take things out of context for pure debate. Armchair quarterbacking is rather easy. Playing a role in keeping our country and its citizens safe takes EFFORT. I bet many people who sit back and attack the government while enjoying the FREEDOM and SAFETY it provides haven't lifted a finger towards that freedom and safety. Be thankful GOOD PEOPLE have TAKEN UP ARMS (or played some role) in KEEPING YOU SAFE.
Originally posted by dR. kNOWITALL
reply to post by FIFIGI
Yes, because they love tracking every move of insignificant people. Its like a hobby
Originally posted by IgnoranceIsntBlisss
reply to post by Jenna
Since they can already track us all with our cellphones and monitor us in A/V, in realtime, in our homes and everywhere else, this isn't a shocker.
However, this is still an important story... S&F!
Originally posted by under_topsecret
This with tracking devices in cars is stupid.
Stupid because for some years people will install those devices of free will.
Same as they go to bank and take loans.
Same as they use 2-3 cell phones.
Same as they use Internet of free will.
Same as they use credit cards for everything.
Originally posted by justinsweatt
Super scary....but this has been going on for a while. The way the government gets away with this sort of behavior is due to the Government using Private Security Corporations who freely "give" their information to law enforcement.
Originally posted by Hedera Helix
The proper use of tracking technology isn't the issue at hand here. It's the careless/abusive/illegal use of this technology for nefarious purposes that should be the real concern. And we haven't even touched on the psychological damage that can occur when it HAS been abused... because it goes straight to the heart of people's religious/political belief systems.