The Government Can Use GPS to Track Your Moves

Originally posted by Jean Paul Zodeaux
reply to post by GhostLancer

 

Oh, I see, the "SHADOW GOV", as opposed to the government you advocate were guilty of this failure, but when it comes a violation of the 4th Amendment, the government you advocate will violate it in the name of "security", and "public order", and we don't have anything to fear from the "SHADOW GOV" in this regard. Is that the gist of your backpedaling?

-----I think people REALIZE that the *facade* government (the one we elect, the one we recognize) is QUITE INDEPENDENT of the "shadow government" that is comprised of CLANDESTINE ELEMENTS who are quite wealthy, powerful and thus INFLUENTIAL transcending 4-year increments of power. There are things to be "feared" from both. But, at least, the VISIBLE government is there to KEEP US SAFE.

-----There can be no "domestic tranquility" WITHOUT *public order.*

And yet, you have declared the "SHADOW GOV" as being the "REAL" power, and if that is true then this is your "public order".

-----Again, see above.

How can you "tranquilly mow your lawn" if some TERRORIST is allowed to poison your lawn?

"Allowed"? Pay close attention to your words. Terrorist do not terrorize because they are "allowed" to do so...[/quote]
-----Ahhhh.... But YES. TERRORISTS ARE *ALLOWED* to do harm WHEN GOVERNMENTS TAKE LITTLE OR NO ACTION. Does a pit-bull dog just mangle or kill a child with nothing before or after the incident? No. The pit bull was ALLOWED to attack because the master took no action to STOP it; the pit bull was ALLOWED to attack because the victim's friends/family did not ANTICIPATE the attack when the pit bull was in sight. If you KNOW a den of poisonous snakes is in your yard, and you take no action to PREVENT potential BITES, then you have ALLOWED those vipers to KILL.

Ah yes, you, bless your heart, in your chuckling "SAFETY", are infinitely wiser than Ben Franklin, simply by virtue of your modern existence.

-----No, not in the least. In fact, he was one of the greatest Americans ever to trod this continent. However, he was SEVERELY CRIPPLED by the fact that he lived 200 years before our time, and could not possibly know of heavier-than-air-FLIGHT, Nicholas TESLA, the atomic bomb, SPACE FLIGHT and modern computers. Hats off to him, and his 80+ fathered children. A true American PATRIOT. However, a "modern" existence means that we know a bit about the road ahead that he had no idea of.

reply to post by GhostLancer

There are things to be "feared" from both. But, at least, the VISIBLE government is there to KEEP US SAFE.

And yet, by your own admission, they have demonstrably failed at a task not mandated to them by Constitution in The United States. No government, local, State, or federal, has been mandated with keeping the people safe. This is your fancy, and has nothing at all to do with Constitutional law.

-----Ahhhh.... But YES. TERRORISTS ARE *ALLOWED* to do harm WHEN GOVERNMENTS TAKE LITTLE OR NO ACTION.

This is just more sophistry on your part. By your logic, the murders, rapes and theft that happen on a regular basis, happen because government allows them to happen. People do not do things because they are allowed to do them, and any parents knows full well that their children will do things they just are not allowed to do. People behave based upon their own ethical standards. Government is in place, in part, to establish justice when a person, or several peoples rights have been abrogated or derogated.

Government is also created to provide for the common defense, but given the topic of this thread, and your own insistence on using the term "allow", providing for the common defense does not equate to disallowing freedom, and it certainly doesn't equate to disregarding Constitutional restraints.

The pit bull was ALLOWED to attack because the master took no action to STOP it; the pit bull was ALLOWED to attack because the victim's friends/family did not ANTICIPATE the attack when the pit bull was in sight. If you KNOW a den of poisonous snakes is in your yard, and you take no action to PREVENT potential BITES, then you have ALLOWED those vipers to KILL.

You are now equating we the people to pit bulls and vipers, which makes sense since your ideology is all about "allowing".

-----No, not in the least. In fact, he was one of the greatest Americans ever to trod this continent. However, he was SEVERELY CRIPPLED by the fact that he lived 200 years before our time, and could not possibly know of heavier-than-air-FLIGHT, Nicholas TESLA, the atomic bomb, SPACE FLIGHT and modern computers.

Benjamin Franklin's simple, albeit somewhat imprudent, experiment by flying a kite in the rain with a key tied to the string was a necessary step towards the technology you speak of today. It is disingenuous, given the inventiveness of Franklin, for you to presume how "crippled" he was in terms of prescience, and indeed, his prescience has predicted many things that have come to pass.

They are tracking our moves using telephone towers anyway. They get 3D picture of all the movements wherever there is signal from 3 towers.

Mobile phone is another tracking device recording your every move.

reply to post by Jenna


So? We could all be so important to have government agents waste time and money tracking our every movement... Seriously if tax payer dollars and all those man-hours are going to be wasted, its not going to be following you and your friends home from '911 Truthers Bingo Night."

reply to post by FIFIGI


Yes, because they love tracking every move of insignificant people. Its like a hobby

I believe the main reason this can be done is that one does not actually own the car - the government does. As such, placing something in "their" car is not an issue. The notion of title verses owner is what allows them to do this without a problem. It is actually what allows them to write a parking ticket, or tow away your car - you don't own it.

reply to post by dR. kNOWITALL


First, what on earth are you talking about? 9/11 truthers bingo?

Second, I really wish people would read the article. It's not a matter of what someone has or hasn't done that could get them tracked, or what devices we can already be tracked with. It's a matter of a panel of judges saying that we have no expectation to privacy unless we're rich, that police can place gps devices on our cars in our own driveways with no warrant, and that even though that information is being obtained illegally it can still be admissable in court. You honestly believe that this won't be abused? After everything our government has said and done in an effort to make the majority of the population look like potential terrorists, you really think this is completely harmless? Give me a break.

Originally posted by Jean Paul Zodeaux
reply to post by GhostLancer

 

And yet, by your own admission, they have demonstrably failed at a task not mandated to them by Constitution in The United States.

-----Failing and *completely* failing different. It is a matter of scale. Also, it is one thing to TRY to stop terrorists, and another thing to sit back and allow it to happen. Some attacks will get through, as in 9/11; many are blocked. Because one attack succeeds doesn't mean it was "allowed" to happen; it just means we did everything we could, and somehow they managed to get through. Sitting back and doing nothing "allows" terrorists to succeed unchallenged. That is my definition on "allows" and point of view.

No government, local, State, or federal, has been mandated with keeping the people safe. This is your fancy, and has nothing at all to do with Constitutional law.

-----How many people out there know by heart what is written on many police cars? The motto: "To Protect and Serve." To me, "protection" equates to "keeping people safe." Another one: our military are REQUIRED TO TAKE AN OATH to "uphold and defend" the Constitution from enemies. "Defend" to me equates to "keeping people safe." I disagree with your assertion. Our cops, firefighters, military and government agents (wrongly called "spooks" because they are good people taking care of us all) are there to KEEP US SAFE. Again, do you hear gunfire outside your window? No. Why? Because the government has cast a protective blanket over us. We are somewhat safe against terrorists. We are more likely to have our own citizens hurt us right now.

This is just more sophistry on your part. By your logic, the murders, rapes and theft that happen on a regular basis, happen because government allows them to happen.

-----We're talking about a government-implemented GPS tracking program here to find TERRORISTS. By my logic, my statements make sense. You keep taking them into other contexts. But, to answer your charge, the gov doesn't "allow" murders, rapes and theft to happen, --in the sense of "allowed" as I explained above. They are trying to PREVENT these things, but humans aren't perfect. Organizations do make mistakes and are not 100% capable of preventing all the mayhem. But they TRY, therefore they do not "allow." If they didn't try to stop all the crime, then YES, they'd be guilty of "allowing."

You tend to nitpick and take things out of context for pure debate. Armchair quarterbacking is rather easy. Playing a role in keeping our country and its citizens safe takes EFFORT. I bet many people who sit back and attack the government while enjoying the FREEDOM and SAFETY it provides haven't lifted a finger towards that freedom and safety. Be thankful GOOD PEOPLE have TAKEN UP ARMS (or played some role) in KEEPING YOU SAFE.

reply to post by Jenna


I'm sorry if I snapped at you a while back. I agree with you wholeheartedly. Yes rich people who can afford high powered lawyers, can literally get away with murder. The Courts are a system like any other in this Matrix. Lawyers don't represent you first and foremost. Their first responsibility is to perpetuate the system. Their second responsibility is to make money. The client is way down on the list of priorities and you will dance to the tune of the Court. Lawyers go to law school and receive a three year indoctination into the system. But all professions have similar indoctrinations. There are a lot of people who just can't or more likely refuse to see this whole, world wide system for what it is. This system is unsustainable. It sucks the life out of all of us to support the top, richest 1% of the population. Shear vampirism of monstrous proportions have sunken their fangs into 99% of the population. They will suck us to empty husks. The whole system is corrupt and way beyond repair. People will hopefully awaken. I hope we are near that 100th monkey.

Namaste



[edit on 27-8-2010 by Klaatumagnum]

reply to post by dR. kNOWITALL


The point is...THEY CAN! Suppose you utter a word or phrase that alerts some anti-terrorist program in some super secret government computer and that puts you on the radar. The FBI picks up the investigation and assigns it to an incompetent agent. They start to monitor you. All of your phone calls, emails and internet traffic monitored. They trump up an affadavit, a judge signs it, they show up at your house and bust in to search for incriminating evidence. This incompetent agent finds nothing or maybe he just doesn't like you. So he plants incriminating evidence OR he downloads it onto your computer via the internet. So they lock you up, post bond and now YOU have to hire a lawyer. Even if you get off, you'll have thousands to pay in legal fee's and your name will have lost it's luster to your neighbors. Think about it. Namaste

[edit on 27-8-2010 by Klaatumagnum]

Originally posted by dR. kNOWITALL
reply to post by FIFIGI

 

Yes, because they love tracking every move of insignificant people. Its like a hobby

It's more like a sport... and practice makes perfect. When they aren't chasing the bad guys... they're making sport/game out of you and your family... usually someone they consider to be a political adversary.

Sometimes it ends badly... like with Carol Anne Gotbaum. And that is exactly the kind of $hit that can happen when powerful people running things from behind the scenes abuse their power. She was stalked and harassed... and because of her illness they got away with murder. Literally.

[edit on 27/8/2010 by Hedera Helix]

Originally posted by IgnoranceIsntBlisss
reply to post by Jenna

 

Since they can already track us all with our cellphones and monitor us in A/V, in realtime, in our homes and everywhere else, this isn't a shocker.

However, this is still an important story... S&F!

I keep seeing this argument posted.

Maybe they can do that, but there has always been a legal remedy available if they were caught. And by nature, since it was considered illegal there was a strong disincentive for them to employ those means, knowing it would jeopordize thier case. This legalizes it to a large degree.

A friend of mine found a tracking device on his truck. I think it helped prove his innocence. They can visually track you from orbit with satellites. It is legal to put a tracker on your vehicle when you are away from your property.

reply to post by Klaatumagnum


No blood, no foul.

The court's argument was that the rich have a greater right to privacy around their homes because they can afford fences, gates, and guard stations. Us poor folk have less privacy because we can't afford and/or don't have all those things. Anyone with two brain cells can figure out that lack of a gate doesn't automatically give you less rights (or the same rights but to a much lesser degree) than someone with one. These judges appear to lack the capacity to think that one through though.

This with tracking devices in cars is stupid.

Stupid because for some years people will install those devices of free will.

Same as they go to bank and take loans.
Same as they use 2-3 cell phones.
Same as they use Internet of free will.
Same as they use credit cards for everything.

Originally posted by under_topsecret
This with tracking devices in cars is stupid.

Stupid because for some years people will install those devices of free will.

Same as they go to bank and take loans.
Same as they use 2-3 cell phones.
Same as they use Internet of free will.
Same as they use credit cards for everything.

The proper use of tracking technology isn't the issue at hand here. It's the careless/abusive/illegal use of this technology for nefarious purposes that should be the real concern. And we haven't even touched on the psychological damage that can occur when it HAS been abused... because it goes straight to the heart of people's religious/political belief systems.

You realize you can easily be tracked by your cell phone don't you? Even if it is turned off?

So why go to all the expense of sneaking onto a property and attachin a gps when they can just use what everyone already has?

Originally posted by justinsweatt
Super scary....but this has been going on for a while. The way the government gets away with this sort of behavior is due to the Government using Private Security Corporations who freely "give" their information to law enforcement.

Yes this and more and it's called The National Security Act (1947).
The only way you Americans will ever be free is if everyone takes to the streets in a nationwide strike and demands this act is repealed.

reply to post by nixie_nox


I'm not good at digging up links for proof...but....

Not too many years ago, this very thing happened, one of the higher ups in the Chicago area mob, was being survieled sp? and there was a court order...made...that allowed the tracking, and listening in on private conversations...all the while his phone was "OFF" not only did they track him but a judge, allowed the one way speaker phone eves dropping as evidence...
His phone was OFF.....and still they had him on digital record...

This was about the same time that the ...ISP and cell providers was made by law...to keep a 90 day record of ALL individuals on the network/s..

Like I said, this was a year maybe two years back...wish I had a clue ...as to what to google....
Not pickin on you here Nixie...but I know from past posts that your not bad at finding stuff, like this.....I have tried and wanted to make a thread about this for a long time....I keep hitting dead ends for info....
I know the man is still serving his sentence from the case...

Originally posted by Hedera Helix


The proper use of tracking technology isn't the issue at hand here. It's the careless/abusive/illegal use of this technology for nefarious purposes that should be the real concern. And we haven't even touched on the psychological damage that can occur when it HAS been abused... because it goes straight to the heart of people's religious/political belief systems.

I do understand you.
But if you have leaved cell phones, Internet, credit cards behind you. Then it is the same with tracking devices in cars. Nothing new, and nothing much more how they can track you.