Retired FBI Agent Says Oswald Didn't Kill Kennedy

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posted on Aug, 25 2010 @ 11:17 AM
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reply to post by InvisibleAlbatross
 


I think he meant Lindon Johnson, not Bush. Here's the background:
www.acorn.net...




posted on Aug, 25 2010 @ 11:21 AM
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reply to post by micpsi
 


Thanks. I was pretty confused there.



posted on Aug, 25 2010 @ 12:11 PM
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There is absolutely no way on Earth that Oswald, or anyone, could fire 3 aimed shots, from a bolt action rifle, at a moving target in less than 7 seconds.

It's not virtually impossible, it is impossible. Especially with this firearm.


Interesting reading going on here:

THE DEATH OF JFK: PHYSICAL EVIDENCE OF CONSPIRACY*

The American public didn't need this agent to confess about something the American public already knew.



posted on Aug, 25 2010 @ 12:56 PM
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Originally posted by InvisibleAlbatross
reply to post by Danbones
 


Could you explain? You say that the print was one of Bush's cronies, but Bush's lawyers revealed this in a book? They went against their boss?


Actually, I believe the only other fingerprint, not belonging to LHO, found in "the sniper's lair", belonged to Mac Wallace. A well known fingerprint expert, Nathan Darby, examined the single fingerprint, and determined it to be a 14 point blind match and that this 14 pt. match would be a "slam dunk" in the courtroom.


Source


Mac (Malcomb) Wallace was a close confidant of Lyin' Lyndon and a convicted killer. He may have been involved in at least 6 murders, Henry Marshall, George Krutilek, Harold Orr, Ike Rogers, Coleman Wade, Josefa Johnson, John Kinser and John F. Kennedy.

Source

Mac Wallace died in a single car automobile accident in January 1971, one of many single car accidents involving witnesses, accomplices, and those with loose lips.

As far as GHW Bush goes:

GHWB IN DALLAS?

He and many CIA and Bay of Pigs personnel were in Dealey Plaza
to witness "the traitors" takedown.



posted on Aug, 25 2010 @ 01:09 PM
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reply to post by monkeySEEmonkeyDO
 



$ure it'$ the Truth.

I smell a book deal in his future.



posted on Aug, 25 2010 @ 01:19 PM
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Originally posted by Intelearthling
There is absolutely no way on Earth that Oswald, or anyone, could fire 3 aimed shots, from a bolt action rifle, at a moving target in less than 7 seconds.

It's not virtually impossible, it is impossible. Especially with this firearm.


Interesting reading going on here:

THE DEATH OF JFK: PHYSICAL EVIDENCE OF CONSPIRACY*

The American public didn't need this agent to confess about something the American public already knew.



Absolutely correct. The Mannlicher Carcano had no prints on it until after FBI agents went to the mortuary Sunday night and fingerprinted LHO's dead body. Surprise, surprise, the next morning the FBI declares prints have been found on the weapon. The rifle was not tested, by the DPD or FBI to see if it had been fired and the parraffin test to LHO's cheek were negative.

During the reinactments, the test shooter's faces were covered with gunpowder residue after firing the Mannlicher's dirty loads. It would have been impossible for LHO to have fired the Mannlicher without some gunpowder residue remaining on his cheek. LHO, nor did anyone else fire the Mannlicher Carcano the day in November. The Mannlicher may not have appeared on the scene at the TSBD until after the fact. 2 DPD officers, knowledgeable in all type of weapons, stated as a matter of fact that they had found a 6.5 Mauser on the 6th floor of the Texas School Book Depository.

As a side note, it took the experts about 15 minutes to shim and tighten the scope on the Mannlicher Carcano before testing could begin. It was common knowledge among these experts that the condition of the weapon would have made it impossible to make the required shots.



posted on Aug, 25 2010 @ 01:32 PM
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Originally posted by Intelearthling
There is absolutely no way on Earth that Oswald, or anyone, could fire 3 aimed shots, from a bolt action rifle, at a moving target in less than 7 seconds.

It's not virtually impossible, it is impossible.

That is absolutely rediculous. I personally know dozens of people who can do this. I, personally, have demonstrated that this is not only possible, but is not that difficult.

Keep in mind that the time doesn't start until the first shot is fired. So really, you are only working the bolt twice and firing twice in 7 seconds. Not very difficult at all.





[edit on 25-8-2010 by Doc Gator]



posted on Aug, 25 2010 @ 01:39 PM
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reply to post by SLAYER69
 


Tons of people write books about all sorts of topics. Doesn't mean the thesis is untrue. At 80 years old, I doubt he cares about the money as much as someone half his age.

[edit on 25-8-2010 by InvisibleAlbatross]



posted on Aug, 25 2010 @ 02:47 PM
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reply to post by Doc Gator
 


Wow your friends must be better shots than the experts brought in by the FBI to reenact the shooting. Not one could make replicate LHO supposed shots within the 6-7 seconds timeframe.

You need to know that when the supposed first shot was made, the limo was obscured by a large tree and due to the operation of the bolt, your head must be pulled away from the scope so it doesn't get hit by the rear movement of the bolt. You have to add this time to reacquire the target after each shot into your 6-7 second equation.

What about the shot/shots that missed the limo just after the turned onto Elm, which were witnessed by SSA's in the backup vehicle and the shot that hit my friend James Tague down at the triple overpass?



posted on Aug, 25 2010 @ 04:35 PM
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Originally posted by Oldnslo
reply to post by Doc Gator
 


Wow your friends must be better shots than the experts brought in by the FBI to reenact the shooting. Not one could make replicate LHO supposed shots within the 6-7 seconds timeframe.

You need to know that when the supposed first shot was made, the limo was obscured by a large tree and due to the operation of the bolt, your head must be pulled away from the scope so it doesn't get hit by the rear movement of the bolt. You have to add this time to reacquire the target after each shot into your 6-7 second equation.

What about the shot/shots that missed the limo just after the turned onto Elm, which were witnessed by SSA's in the backup vehicle and the shot that hit my friend James Tague down at the triple overpass?



Apparently, my friends and I are better shots than the "experts" the FBI had. I've done it many times and I've seen it done many times.

The target has to be reacquired after every shot at a moving target with a bolt gun. There is no difference between this and any other shot. As I said before, working the bolt twice and firing twice in 7 seconds is not at all difficult.

Notice that I did not say that LHO hit or even shot at Kennedy. I did not say that any of the shots even came from that _ All I am saying is that 3 shots from a bolt action is not only possible, it is not hard to accomplish.

Before believing this commonly held "proof", get yourself a rifle and a stopwatch and try it. You may surprise yourself.



posted on Aug, 25 2010 @ 05:56 PM
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3 shots from a good bolt action may be easy. What I am saying is with the characteristics of this Mannlicher, and its conditions (loose scope), this weapon could not have accomplished what it is said to have done.

If numerous weapon experts, the best the government could find, (they did really want to prove it could be done) could not make the shots, I seriously doubt your friends could have made the shot.

Been shootin' for more than 50 years with everything from a .22 to a .50 CAL. Uncle Sam issued me an M-60 for my "rides" on a Huey back in the olden days. I've held a Mannlicher and it's a real POS!

It's a long way from just cycling 2 rounds through a bolt action rifle to a situation where you must make the initial acquisition, operate the bolt twice, reacquire the target twice, and firing 3 rounds, hitting the moving target twice(one a headshot), all within 7 seconds or less. You also have a tree hindering your first shot acquisition to add further difficulties to the time line as is pulling your eye away from the scope to operate the bolt twice.

I don't need to argue or prove anything to you as most of what I have to say is put forth on previous JFK threads on ATS. They are all there for you to peruse at your leisure.

Almost everything I have stated in previous threads, as well as here, has been discussed, ad naseum, with the eyewitness standing down at the triple overpass. We are in complete agreement except as to the origin of the fatal frontal head shot. He was very good friends with Harold Weisburg until his death a few years ago, and most JFK researchers have been guest at his home while doing their investigations. Hopefully his new book comes out next year. Any new information I will post. We speak 3-4 times a year.

Instead of giving me the "proof" routine, why don't you use the search feature and read the many JFK threads here on ATS, especially the one's by Badge01. The OP's and the contributors to those threads have solved as much as possible. I'm surprised we haven't had government men banging at the front door considering what we have posted. If fact I haven't heard Badge01 since his last JFK thread. Sargoth also has a fine OP and thread on the subject.

The many previous threads on the JFK assassination I believe are some of the finest discussed and something we, here at ATS, should all be proud of. We've nailed this one!!

If you don't believe me, ask Jim Marrs what he thinks of the JFK threads on ATS. If he's kept up on these threads, he knows I saw a body bag come off Air Force One just after it landed at Andrews Air Force Base. Two men in suits carried it from the right side of the aircraft to an awaiting twin rotor helo visible in the distance, as the news reporter stated "That must be the body of a Secret Service Agent killed in Dallas today".

Think about that one for a moment!!!

[edit on 25-8-2010 by Oldnslo]

[edit on 25-8-2010 by Oldnslo]



posted on Aug, 25 2010 @ 06:10 PM
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Back on topic.

"Retired FBI Agent Says Oswald Didn't Kill Kennedy"

My question to the OP is, which Oswald - Lee, Harvey or neither?



posted on Aug, 25 2010 @ 06:13 PM
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here are some links from credible peeps


The long suspected truth about the assination plot has been confirmed. Saint John Hunt, E. Howard Hunt's son has produced the deathbed tape that detailed the CIA plot to kill Kennedy.

www.prisonplanet.com...

Of course, the name E. Howard Hunt brings up memories of Nixon and Watergate, but this also ties the Bush Famil (GHWB) to the assination.




Barr McClellan, father of White House press secretary Scott McClellan and Food and Drug Administration Commissioner Mark McClellan, is preparing for a Sept. 30 release of a 480-page book by Hannover House that offers photographs, copies of letters, insider interviews and details of fingerprints as proof that Edward A. Clark, the powerful head of Johnson's private and business legal team and a former ambassador to Australia, led the plan and cover-up for the 1963 assassination in Dallas.


I think the book is all evience till the last chapter, before the author(s) even says anything on his own.


"The big beauty is, (readers) don't have to believe a word I say," McClellan said. "They can believe the fingerprint examiner. They can believe the exchange of memos and letters."



posted on Aug, 25 2010 @ 06:41 PM
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reply to post by Oldnslo
 


I think that you may be reading too much into my replies. Yours is the first post (or discussion) I have seen that discusses the specifics of the shot instead of the generic "nobody can get 3 hits from a bolt gun in 7 seconds".

The army also provided me with alot of my marksmanship training and also issued me an M60 to start with. That was quickly replaced with a Remington bolt action.

I don't know enough of the specifics of the Kennedy shots to know if I could make them, but I do know for sure that the blanket statement about 3 shots is wrong. I also know that any decent marksman can make 3 headshots on a slow moving target from an elevated position at under 100 yards in less than 7 seconds.

LHO's rifle may have been junk, but even junk can register hits in the hands of someone skilled. Although from what I have seen, LHO was a long way from being skilled with a rifle. Loose optics could be a problem, but as a machinegunner, I'm sure you are familiar with "Kentucky windage". The point is that with enough practice, hits are not out of the question.

To sum it up, I was speaking about the generic statement about the shots, not about where the shots came from or who fired them.

I hope that makes more sense.



posted on Aug, 25 2010 @ 07:21 PM
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reply to post by Doc Gator
 


I do agree with you. I could make the shot with a decent weapon. But the government's attempt to say that the Mannlicher was THE weapon used, is laughable. If the gov had said Oswald had used a 6.5 Mauser, I wouldn't have given it a second thought.

But a US Marine choosing to use a Mannlicher Carcano with it's medium velocity round, to kill the President of the United States is a bit more than this vet can swallow. If I was to take that risk, I would want a weapon up to the task at hand.

Senator Chris Dodd's father Thomas, most likely is the source of the Mannlicher. In the early 1960's he had run an Senate investigation into illegally imported weapons. Is it a coincidence that the Mannlicher Carcano (of all possible weapons) was one of those involved in the investigation?

Really, we are in agreement for the most part. But as a vet, this whole discussion is about given a choice, would you use a Mannlicher Carcano or a Mauser class weapon? I'd purchase the best, most accurate weapon I could afford. And then some.

A military surplus Winchester U.S. M1 Carbine .30 Caliber would fit the bill. Probably could have purchased one for under $50. Maybe less in the early '60 when a dollar was worth a dollar.

I would have to accurately fire at least 3 rounds down range in less than 7 seconds, at a small moving target. A Mannlicher just doesn't fit that bill.



posted on Aug, 25 2010 @ 07:33 PM
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reply to post by Esoteric Teacher
 



there wasn't much about that post i thought to be constructive or relevant to discussion other than to be belittling by projecting what you think of people in general.


Well, you're right about one thing - it is what i think.

Im just holding a mirror up to your faces so you can see yourselves the way everyone else does.

That is part of the conversation - since you are all a part of it as well.


Now, i don't know who killed Kennedy, and to be honest it's one of the Conspiracies in the world that I could actually see either story being true.

That still doesn't change the fact that all you government hating fear mongers out there love to hate every public official, until they start preaching your side of the story.

Then you hoist them up on your shoulders and say "LOOK! This guy is a government official and he agrees with me!"

The title holds no prestige unless they agree with you.

It's just hypocrisy. Through and through.

[edit on 25-8-2010 by Snarf]



posted on Aug, 25 2010 @ 08:12 PM
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Originally posted by Snarf

Im just holding a mirror up to your faces so you can see yourselves the way everyone else does.


oh. stupid me. i did not know you were speaking for everyone else.

thanks for letting us know,
et



posted on Aug, 25 2010 @ 08:57 PM
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Using the ATS search box---enter one4all kennedy assasination,you may find this method of finding the real shooter or shooters to be quite helpful.

It sounds as if there are some experienced tactical marksmen here,your training should round out my general direction and focus,I think to the left and behind the Repository building as you look out the window Oswald was supposed to have used.


A tactical shooter should know that the targets you must miss are definitive restraints to your instinctive plan and may be used as circumstantial pointers to your plan and location.



posted on Aug, 25 2010 @ 10:41 PM
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reply to post by Snarf
 


Who said every person in this thread or every conspiracy theorist hates every government official? That's simply ludicrous. People may hate the government as a whole, but given the number of people making up every agency, there has to be officials who are good people, who want to do right. And those are the officials people on this site will respect.



posted on Aug, 25 2010 @ 11:35 PM
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Originally posted by InvisibleAlbatross
reply to post by g146541
 


I completely disagree. These men who killed Kennedy are still alive (possibly), and so is their ideology. They almost certainly have passed this ideology on to their children. And as we have seen, their children are sometimes in positions of power. Until they are outed as the murderous fascists they are, the country is not safe.


If it were a group thing.....they pulled that off like they did, where they did in daylight...with no fear and after all these years kept a lid on it....and all the folks big and small all they way up and down the line that had to be managed...no leaks with enough gas...all these years...even if all the bits and parts are made into a whole.......these guys will never be outed....they are in so deep thet it may be hundreds of years if this story is ever told right.





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