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7000 Citizens Violently Threatened By The State Of Indiana

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posted on Aug, 25 2010 @ 02:40 PM
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Originally posted by Demoncreeper

Your questions weren't answered because they had nothing to do with the alleged "violent" threats against 7000 Americans.

Congratulations. You've made it to be the first one on my ignore list. Not because I'm inept to keep up with you. In fact, I enjoy a good debate. Mostly because you don't seem to fathom what is truly going on.


See? There you all have it. Confront a cop or "big brother" with some well thought out, precise questions using THEIR OWN definitions they use to arrest and detain you and you see big bad government henchmen turn into whining sniveling babies screaming "You're stupid!" and running home to tell "big daddy" that you aren't willing to play their rigged game any longer. I'm willing to bet dollars to doughnuts that if this conversion had taken place face to face I would have been beat with a baton or shot with a tazer, then I would have been handed my "obstructing a police officer" ticket or "order to pay".

There was no debate here at all, there was never meant to be one, Demoncreeper has no grounds to debate anything. Those legal definitions he brushes aside so easily are what enables him to make arrests in the first place, the issue is not "was the arrest warrant violent?" because the issue is "were the arrest orders lawful?" by the definitions that make up our legal system NO THEY WERE NOT. End of story. Period. Full stop.


It's nice to see ignorant pointing out ignorance. The blinders work both ways.

ATS is sometimes amazing for people claiming to be awake, yet are just clueless.


Before you run and hide would you answer just ONE question? What is your basis for calling me clueless? I provided definitions and asked the right questions, now you are the one getting all huffy and puffy.

Its not ignorance either, this person (Demoncreeper) is just scared and fearful. You know something... It wasn't the world being round that agitated people but that the world wasn't flat. When a well-packaged web of lies has been sold gradually to the masses over generations, the truth will seem utterly preposterous and its speaker a raving lunatic.



Issuing 7000 warrants is clearly a dumb idea, but it is in no way violent.
It was your "system" that processed the warrants, because that is how the "SUPER COMPUTER" works. There was probably very little human involvement in this issuance step. So prove the intent of violence.


This is almost too good to be true, are you actually saying that it is no longer a jury of our peers that must call for our arrest it can simply be a computer? HAHAHAHAHA and you wonder why I think your job is useless?


Also, pay your taxes and follow the law. You will be fine. You can whine all you want. Move to another country if you find your laws oppressive.


Hate to break it to you but I was born here, that makes me a native to this country. It is my birthright to be here and I'm sorry to inform you but "big brother" can go suck an egg. Just because I was born here does not mean I belong to a government that can claim part of my labor for itself. Give your head a shake.

If you and all your henchmen buddies were sitting around playing Monopoly and I came into the room, do you automatically assume I am part of your game, and therefore bound by the rules of your game? OF COURSE NOT! So why do you think that every other human being walking around your "jurisdiction" is part of your "game" or system and bound by the corporate rules (acts and statues) that you are? Think about it. Some of us aren't a part of your corrupt little game anymore, still going to try to force the rules on us?

-Lightrule




posted on Aug, 25 2010 @ 02:40 PM
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reply to post by mnemeth1
 


If you believe that you are incredibly naive. How old are you, if I might ask? No need to answer if you don't wish too.

My reference to the Congo was not understood because you must be unfamiliar with its recent history. I'm talking about when the Congo lost its central government entirely and a State of pure Anarchy ensued. The Anarchy you embrace. All the bad things you say won't happen did happen. No other country or government had anything to do with it. Everything that happened was internal. Later on outsiders did take advantage of it which proves my other point.

History is the measure of what is true and what is not true. You ignore history at your own peril.



posted on Aug, 25 2010 @ 02:42 PM
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Originally posted by mnemeth1
reply to post by ProjectJimmy
 


I wouldn't volunteer any money to the tax man, I would spend my money on private services I would get to enjoy.

I'd pay for private roads, private schools, private security, private healthcare, private insurance, private automakers, private everything that I want in my life.

I would spend just enough on insurance to cover my needs and not a penny more.

I would spend just enough on my schooling to meet my needs and not a penny more.

I would spend just enough on my road tolls to cover my travel needs and not a penny more.

Everything I bought would be just the right amount for me with no waste or excess spending.



[edit on 25-8-2010 by mnemeth1]


And what happens when Company A decides that they want your house for a new private road or what not and hires a larger private security team than you the simple but independent consumer would ever be able to afford to take it from you?



posted on Aug, 25 2010 @ 02:49 PM
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Originally posted by mnemeth1


You wouldn't say no because there would be profit involved.

That's how voluntary markets work.

People do things that make themselves better off, which includes selling land to road developers so that the developer can install a for-profit road.

if you chose not to sell, the developer will go around you.

They have these things call "options to buy" that allows a developer to plot out a long highway without the need to actually fully purchase the properties until everyone along the road agrees to sell.



Actually what happens these days is we design a road where it is going to be in the future, then calls are made to the owners. Believe it or not a lot of the times these people refuse to sell. Unlike you some people are not driven by greed. The state won't purchase one property unless all of them can be acquired, that would be stupid. However, if there are only a few people who are unwilling to sell, it is possible for their land to be taken and them compensated fair market value. Sometimes this cannot be helped.

MOTF!



posted on Aug, 25 2010 @ 02:51 PM
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Mnemeth1,

I apologize for having to beg off of this interesting debate and I hope you saw it as a debate and not an attack.

I have to get to work as I've not gotten anything done this morning. This horrible system allowed me to start a small business and drag myself out of poverty against all odds. I participate willingly in it. My tiny business supports multiple families and I have obligations to them and me.



posted on Aug, 25 2010 @ 02:51 PM
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Originally posted by Blaine91555
reply to post by mnemeth1
 


If you believe that you are incredibly naive. How old are you, if I might ask? No need to answer if you don't wish too.

My reference to the Congo was not understood because you must be unfamiliar with its recent history. I'm talking about when the Congo lost its central government entirely and a State of pure Anarchy ensued. The Anarchy you embrace. All the bad things you say won't happen did happen. No other country or government had anything to do with it. Everything that happened was internal. Later on outsiders did take advantage of it which proves my other point.

History is the measure of what is true and what is not true. You ignore history at your own peril.


ORLY?

Here we see Somalia's private sector exploding in growth now that the criminal government has devolved.
mises.org...

Specifically in the Congo, we see that there is NOT anarchy, but an authoritarian rise of power taking place.
www.reuters.com...

The rise of the autocrats in Africa are STRICTLY DUE TO FOREIGN GOVERNMENT INTERVENTION.

Since there is no existing capital, the dictators are able to outspend everyone because they are the ones hording the international aid. If we were not meddling in Africa's affairs, they would be fine on their own. The Europeans don't want fine, they want the Africans suppressed and in a constant state of war.



[edit on 25-8-2010 by mnemeth1]



posted on Aug, 25 2010 @ 02:54 PM
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Originally posted by Lightrule
This is almost too good to be true, are you actually saying that it is no longer a jury of our peers that must call for our arrest it can simply be a computer? HAHAHAHAHA and you wonder why I think your job is useless?


That's interesting, Is that how it works in Canada? A jury of your peers has to call for your arrest?



posted on Aug, 25 2010 @ 02:58 PM
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Originally posted by ProjectJimmy

And what happens when Company A decides that they want your house for a new private road or what not and hires a larger private security team than you the simple but independent consumer would ever be able to afford to take it from you?


Probably the same thing that happens when the gov decides it wants your house. They just take it. Eminent domain style. No real difference.

Whether some rich guy hires a bunch of guns to take it from you in mnemeth's world or some rich guy pays off a bunch of politicians to take it from you in this world you still lose it.

I guess it's more "noble" or "righteous" to get raped by the gov though, right?



posted on Aug, 25 2010 @ 03:00 PM
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reply to post by thisguyrighthere
 


At least in my world you can fight back



posted on Aug, 25 2010 @ 03:02 PM
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To all you people that think it is mandatory you pay your taxes I have something for you to ponder...

In Can/US the government exists. We can all agree on this right?

Now this government that exists claims to be one of REPRESENTATION. Still Follow?

In order for someone/thing to represent you you must first give them/it your PERMISSION.

Permission that must be given freely. When you revoke your permission for the government to represent you then what?

Think about it... please?

Now if you really have thought about it and still think paying taxes is the right thing to do, then fine. You are entitled to think that, however you are not entitled to assume I must pay my taxes as well. There is no "us and them" anyway... We are all the same, pro-government/tax/welfare people just don't know it yet.

-Lightrule



posted on Aug, 25 2010 @ 03:04 PM
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reply to post by mnemeth1
 


Except that you fail to mention that Somalia is a hellhole where fishermen have had to resort to naval piracy in order to survive and warlords terrorize the majority of the population with what? Oh that is right, unrestrained acts of horrific violence.

I would never say that in the absence government that private corporations wouldn't thrive but that instead the quality of life would be reduced to that of scraping out a bleak and hopeless existence in the face of overwhelming terror.

By the way, I'm still waiting on a response to my question regarding what you would do when a company decides they want your property in your world.



posted on Aug, 25 2010 @ 03:06 PM
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Originally posted by ProjectJimmy
reply to post by mnemeth1
 


Except that you fail to mention that Somalia is a hellhole where fishermen have had to resort to naval piracy in order to survive and warlords terrorize the majority of the population with what? Oh that is right, unrestrained acts of horrific violence.

I would never say that in the absence government that private corporations wouldn't thrive but that instead the quality of life would be reduced to that of scraping out a bleak and hopeless existence in the face of overwhelming terror.

By the way, I'm still waiting on a response to my question regarding what you would do when a company decides they want your property in your world.


Hey guess what?

America wasn't so hot 200 years ago either.

In fact, I would argue the standards of living was lower.

You can't expect them to instantly jump to first world status overnight because they got rid of their government.

That's ridiculous.

We can clearly see right now that THEY ARE BETTER OFF THAN THEY WERE with government.

This is all that matters in making my point.

Coke just opened up a bottling plant in Somalia, so they must have some confidence that they can conduct a stable business there.

To answer your question about property, I would get a bunch of my friends together and defend my land. I would take out notices in the papers asking the community to come and help me. I would rally hundreds of people to do battle.

The people of the community would not stand for a corporation using force to loot me. If I could prove I was the owner of the property, every other business owner in the country would come to my aid, because they would not want that happening to them either.


[edit on 25-8-2010 by mnemeth1]



posted on Aug, 25 2010 @ 03:11 PM
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being a hoosier this is the first i have heard of this.


but meh deliquent taxes - hell pay em.

mem isnt being alarmist hes being a realist things are going to get worse.


irs agents are now being armed.....


if states are in realy financial straights i say its time that states start confiscating " unclaimed property"-meaning theres alot of money sitting in accounts with no owners.


but then agian taxes or bailouts. the system needs fixed making people actually pay up isnt going to change anything.

shrink government,shrink entitlements btw this might be considered an off topic but it goes to the point of this thread.

you wouldnt think indiana has a huge illegal immigration problem well trust me since i have lived here for 40 years it does.


"threatening" people to pay their taxes so they can fund illegals medicaid etc.


it does remind one of the debtors prison we were taught about in school -wonder if thats still taught thesedays.



posted on Aug, 25 2010 @ 03:13 PM
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reply to post by neo96
 


We all pay our taxes because we all know what the alternative is.

Violence.



posted on Aug, 25 2010 @ 03:14 PM
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Originally posted by thisguyrighthere

Originally posted by ProjectJimmy

And what happens when Company A decides that they want your house for a new private road or what not and hires a larger private security team than you the simple but independent consumer would ever be able to afford to take it from you?


Probably the same thing that happens when the gov decides it wants your house. They just take it. Eminent domain style. No real difference.

Whether some rich guy hires a bunch of guns to take it from you in mnemeth's world or some rich guy pays off a bunch of politicians to take it from you in this world you still lose it.

I guess it's more "noble" or "righteous" to get raped by the gov though, right?


At least in eminent domain cases you have some legal recourse and the promise of compensation. In mnemeth's world if I was a corporate baron I see no reason why I would do such a thing. I'd simply buy some attack helicopters and get to pillaging.

In fact considering the cost of such machines, I don't think I'd run into any meaningful resistance until another company came to steal what I had stolen.

Also why stop at land property? If might equals right why not go into the slaving business too? If you, humble property owner, are killed in the raid that's fine because then there's nobody to keep your wife and kids from being bought and sold as an asset.

Edit: Trust me by the end of it I could build myself quite a nice little feudal lordship like my ancestors did in the middle ages. Imagine looking out over the Midlands and seeing all the peasants back in their place as serfs!

I am of course being deliberately outrageous here, but this is how things happened after the fall of the Roman government in Britain, and my family were quite wealthy lords, so take it from me, it's very possible in the absence of government for life to become quite horrid very quickly.

[edit on 25-8-2010 by ProjectJimmy]



posted on Aug, 25 2010 @ 03:16 PM
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reply to post by ProjectJimmy
 


You wouldn't do such a thing because no one would buy your products.

In fact, you just might get attacked yourself in retaliation.

No one would do that.

Could you imagine what the press would do to Microsoft if Bill Gates ran around shooting people and taking their property?



[edit on 25-8-2010 by mnemeth1]



posted on Aug, 25 2010 @ 03:21 PM
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One more interesting thing about America's past:

Most of our founding fathers and colonists were SMUGGLERS

*shock*

Does this bear any resemblance to the pirates of Somalia?

You should look up what we were doing back then. It is interesting to see the parallels between Somalia and ourselves.

Our founding fathers were a bunch of criminals


Hancock was a big one - he made is entire fortune smuggling.



posted on Aug, 25 2010 @ 03:22 PM
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Originally posted by mnemeth1
We all pay our taxes because we all know what the alternative is.

Violence.


All? That's a broad brush. Think there might be a chance some of us pay our taxes out of a sense of duty to contribute to the roads, schools, infrastructure, libraries, fire and police protection, national defense etc etc etc which we at least should have a modicum of appreciation for?

I know personally, I don't feel comfortable availing myself of services for which I haven't contributed in some small way. Whoever wants to stake out their own little kingdom somewhere separate and go their own way, more power to them. If you're going to use the services, you should contribute. Refusal to pay lawfully assessed taxes is the equivalent of stealing.

Wow, did we not take civics in school, or something?



posted on Aug, 25 2010 @ 03:22 PM
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reply to post by mnemeth1
 


well most of us pay our taxes unless your in the federal governments:p



posted on Aug, 25 2010 @ 03:23 PM
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Originally posted by MrDesolate

Originally posted by Lightrule
This is almost too good to be true, are you actually saying that it is no longer a jury of our peers that must call for our arrest it can simply be a computer? HAHAHAHAHA and you wonder why I think your job is useless?


That's interesting, Is that how it works in Canada? A jury of your peers has to call for your arrest?


In Canada before an arrest can be made a few things have to happen...

To make a lawful arrest, first a warrant must be issued. The warrant can only be issued after a judge has received a sworn statement. This sworn statement must be sworn by a human being. As only a human being can "swear in" a statement.
Another way they can go to get the warrant is on the statement of the arresting officer ONLY if the crime was permitted in his presence.
The third and the hardest one to get to stick is a warrant based solely on probable cause to believe a crime has been committed. A computer cannot witness anything or give a statement and swear on it. Neither can a computer "believe" a crime has been committed based on probable cause.

Was I clear enough? I hope this helps.

-Lightrule



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