It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

7000 Citizens Violently Threatened By The State Of Indiana

page: 6
38
<< 3  4  5    7  8  9 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Aug, 25 2010 @ 01:55 PM
link   
reply to post by mnemeth1
 


Thanks for reposting that video. I was asking you not your god on youtube.

MOTF!




posted on Aug, 25 2010 @ 01:57 PM
link   

Originally posted by crazydaisy
I live in Indiana - I pay my taxes, keep everything else in good order. Good
thing as with my health I wouldn't last 2 days in jail.


The central bank thanks you for your support.




posted on Aug, 25 2010 @ 01:59 PM
link   

Originally posted by MessOnTheFED!
reply to post by mnemeth1
 


Thanks for reposting that video. I was asking you not your god on youtube.

MOTF!


I'm not going to write out a reply that encapsulates an hour long lecture for you.

I am not your personal secretary.

If you want to learn, watch the video and start reading.



posted on Aug, 25 2010 @ 02:06 PM
link   

Originally posted by mnemeth1
I don't need a State to protect me or offer me crappy over-priced services. Isn't that the standard response to anarchy by statists? Fear? They claim the world would devolve into mad max and use fear to denounce a system of peace. So who is really scared? Me or you?


Take an honest look at what happens without government. The most physically powerful or those with the best weapons immediately form into group or gangs if you will. They then prey on the weak who can not defend against them. To believe otherwise is well, naive.

You must envision yourself as one of those who are most powerful and you see yourself as running the show? Am I wrong? Be honest now. Is not your real problem that you are not in charge now?

As to taxes, as long as it is a fair system, they are not wrong. I'd agree that the current systems leave much to be desired, but regardless we need schools, roads, railroads and everything else critical in our infrastructure.

The military, police and courts are also critical. This is not an imaginary Utopia you know? Anarchists tend to see a world that does not exist. Any place of value without government will be taken over by another country with government. Period end of subject. The criminal element and the violent among us will take control anytime their is no Authority to control them. Look at Mexico.

How did you get stuck in this fantasy or yours? This world that does not exist? Believing people are different than they are? You cite history and then completely ignore its truths. Why can't you see that?

Again the only answer I can come up with is that you see yourself as controlling things in your world and controlling those around you. The problem with that view is that they won't let you control them and you will have to use force just to survive in this world you describe.

Granted you did mention something about a local government of sorts. How does such a pseudo-government defend against other countries that are organized under a central government? The simple answer is you cannot and you would be enslaved almost immediately.

We form nations for a reason. When we stand alone, the violent and evil among us have complete control.

There are also people who don't pay taxes and still expect to use the infrastructure they pay for. You know, worthless Bum's. The world is full of them. People who use and never give back.

There may have been a forgetful Senior or two in the ranks of those who don't pay their taxes, but I assure you for most of them, they are people who take and never give back.

I can't help but wonder when I see such irrational posts if the person making them is being totally honest or just seeking attention or even worse, flags.



posted on Aug, 25 2010 @ 02:09 PM
link   
reply to post by crazydaisy
 


So it's fear that keeps you paying? Well, that is what motivates most Americans to pay their taxes. I don't think it's right and it hasn't always been this way in America.
It really got out of hand in 1933 when Roosevelt in collusion with the Federal Reserve, confiscated privately held gold from Citizens and replaced it with fiat paper currency.
Thus began our slow decent into fraud, corruption and bankruptcy, as the Fed printed more and more counterfeit dollars, manipulating the money supply through fractional reserve banking, diluting it's worth, and surreptitiously passing the losses on to the American public in the form of debt and inflation.
At the same time they rob us through the above scheme, they confiscate our wealth through taxes and use it to fund their enforcement arm called the IRS, which then funnels it back into their looting operation.



posted on Aug, 25 2010 @ 02:10 PM
link   
reply to post by Blaine91555
 


I own a gun. Therefore I can protect myself. Government can not protect me from anything or anyone. - ever.

Take a look at what happens with government.

The most physically violent dominate the landscape. We call them drug cartels.

The drug cartels CAN ONLY EXIST because of government - without government existing, drug cartels could not and would not exist.

The State has caused over 100 million deaths through war and starvation over the last century.

Without the State 100 million more people would be alive today.

So don't sit there and tell me that anarchy would devolve into a WORSE state of affairs than we have now. Because what we have now is chaos.




[edit on 25-8-2010 by mnemeth1]



posted on Aug, 25 2010 @ 02:15 PM
link   

Originally posted by MessOnTheFED!
reply to post by Smack
 


So are you saying that we should abolish taxes all together? Then what?

MOTF!


When you can tell me the difference between an apportioned indirect tax and an unapportioned direct tax, and it's relevance to the Constitution, I'll consider answering that question.



posted on Aug, 25 2010 @ 02:17 PM
link   
reply to post by mnemeth1
 


Thank you. You just proved my point. You need to read the words that you just posted. You do see yourself as the most powerful and that explains your point of view. You would use force against those around you to get what YOU want. That is not Anarchy, it is Tyranny. Do you study and believe in Stalin?



posted on Aug, 25 2010 @ 02:19 PM
link   

Originally posted by Smack
I see a whole lot of slaves defending their master and some that vehemently dissent. Some of you love being enslaved apparently. Some of you have forgotten what made America great. Some of you never knew anything, nor do you care to, you only wish to fulfill a petty desire to pile on.

Is it ok for me to steal?
Can I come to your door and demand that you give me money?
If you refuse me, can I threaten you with assault, confiscate your property or imprison you?
I assume no one is moronic enough to answer yes to those questions.
So if it is wrong for me to do those things, why is it ok for the government to do it?
I'll sit back and watch the sheep fight cognitive dissonance, while they desperately search for any delusional justification for legalized theft and terrorism.

I leave you with this reality check -


"If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or your arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen." -- Samuel Adams


[edit on 25-8-2010 by Smack]


Your definition of freedom and mine are quite different mate. I also do not see what this has to do about the founding of the United States. The revolutionaries were not rebelling against taxation in total but taxation without representation.

You have representation as outlined in your constitution, now of course there are a few things I'd add to it to better increase the way that representation acts in relation to the individual (perhaps an amendment banning political parties would be nice) but I do not see how the spirit of 1776 has to do with anarchism.

If this is slavery, hey chain me to a wall already! In both the UK and USA I would have freedom of speech, freedom of ideas, freedom to own property, and many other rights. If taxes were actually voluntary, I for one would actually keep paying them. How many of you anarchists and libertarians would?

There is a tendency in humanity to want to believe that we are special or better than our fellow man, I really don't. I want to have a rather specific set of basic civil rights, and beyond that I want everyone to have those rights equally. Any rights beyond the ones I would demand, I would only demand that they are applied to all and there is equality in them.

I do my job and I do it well so I am rewarded as a productive member of society, but I realize that I am in fact just a small individual cog in the massive machine that is my society. This is true on many levels.

In my family I am part of the unit that is comprised of my wife, our pets and myself.

In my job I am part of a unit that is comprised of myself and my co-workers.

In London I am part of a unit that is comprised of my side of town.

In England I am part of a unit that is comprised of Greater London.

In The United Kingdom I am part of a unit that is comprised of England.

In The European Union I am part of a unit that is comprised of the United Kingdom.

I am an individual but also a part of all of these units that with their increasing size can undertake greater and greater works than I ever could myself.

My tax dollars are my contribution to London, England, the United Kingdom and the European Union. By paying my taxes I in turn am party to the benefits those tax dollars produce exemplified but not only encompassing roads, defense, health care, pension and so on.

I am actually quite happy to do this, and I assure you Americans I pay far more in taxes than you ever will.



posted on Aug, 25 2010 @ 02:22 PM
link   
you would think taking taxes out of our pay checks would be enough for these greedy pigs, but no. you pay taxes on everything you purchase, you pay taxes on your property, you pay taxes on your car, you got to pay taxes on your pets even. at least four months of the salary you slave away at a job you hate to earn is stolen by the government and used to fund senseless programs and illegal wars. your tax money is split up and given to these greedy scumbag politicians who always have their hand out. your tax money is spent wining and dining congressmen, sending politicians on lavish vacations, and other nonsense. F# YOU UNCLE SAM the government is full of crooks and liars and snakes. trust me if hell exists then there is a special seat for all these swine.



posted on Aug, 25 2010 @ 02:25 PM
link   

Originally posted by Blaine91555
reply to post by mnemeth1
 


Thank you. You just proved my point. You need to read the words that you just posted. You do see yourself as the most powerful and that explains your point of view. You would use force against those around you to get what YOU want. That is not Anarchy, it is Tyranny. Do you study and believe in Stalin?


You are claiming I would use force to get what I want, while at the same time saying you should be allowed to loot me at gun point through the tax system?

err.. what?

Didn't I just say I'm against using violence to solve problems?

Didn't I just say I'm against taxes?



posted on Aug, 25 2010 @ 02:27 PM
link   

Originally posted by mnemeth1

Without the State 100 million more people would be alive today.

So don't sit there and tell me that anarchy would devolve into a WORSE state of affairs than we have now. Because what we have now is chaos.


Had to think about that.

Without government or more correctly civilization, history has shown over and over again what happens. Violence and cruelty reign supreme. It a simple fact of life. You with your "gun" could not control a gang of thugs, no matter bad you think you are.

How many would be dead if you remove the infrastructure and most of the food supply? If you removed hospitals and roads? If you removed schools? The infrastructure we take for granted would not exist because we are talking about human being here, not imaginary people who do not exist.

Do you really think the world could have reached this population without the things provided by a central government. Even a bad one causes less death than the lack of one would.

Your views are irrational to say the least.



posted on Aug, 25 2010 @ 02:29 PM
link   
reply to post by ProjectJimmy
 


I wouldn't volunteer any money to the tax man, I would spend my money on private services I would get to enjoy.

I'd pay for private roads, private schools, private security, private healthcare, private insurance, private automakers, private everything that I want in my life.

I would spend just enough on insurance to cover my needs and not a penny more.

I would spend just enough on my schooling to meet my needs and not a penny more.

I would spend just enough on my road tolls to cover my travel needs and not a penny more.

Everything I bought would be just the right amount for me with no waste or excess spending.



[edit on 25-8-2010 by mnemeth1]



posted on Aug, 25 2010 @ 02:30 PM
link   

Originally posted by mnemeth1
reply to post by Blaine91555
 


I own a gun. Therefore I can protect myself.


No I did not say that. You admitted it.

Are you so naive you think that under a State of Anarchy, others would not form gangs? Gangs you could not defend against? You ever been to an inner-city where Anarchy is in play? How about the Congo?



posted on Aug, 25 2010 @ 02:31 PM
link   
reply to post by Blaine91555
 


I like how when government wields violence and cruelty to subdue the people it becomes more "righteous" than violence and cruelty without government.

As though violence and cruelty wielded by government is neither violent nor cruel.


How does that work? Is it the intent behind the violence and cruelty that makes it different? The way it's been marketed?



posted on Aug, 25 2010 @ 02:33 PM
link   

Originally posted by Blaine91555

Originally posted by mnemeth1
reply to post by Blaine91555
 


I own a gun. Therefore I can protect myself.


No I did not say that. You admitted it.

Are you so naive you think that under a State of Anarchy, others would not form gangs? Gangs you could not defend against? You ever been to an inner-city where Anarchy is in play? How about the Congo?


People only form armed gangs when there is government preventing the markets from functioning.

Gangs only exist because government is creating a black market through prohibiting goods.

The gangs in Africa exist as a way to loot the foreign aid we are pouring into there. There are numerous reasons wild gangs exist in Africa, and all of them have to do with government.





[edit on 25-8-2010 by mnemeth1]



posted on Aug, 25 2010 @ 02:34 PM
link   

Originally posted by mnemeth1
reply to post by ProjectJimmy
 


I'd pay for private roads, private schools, private security, private healthcare, private insurance, private automakers, private everything that I want in my life.



...and if the only way you could get food, water or transport your needs to you was to cross my land and I said no?

What if I decided I want what you have and I have ten times as many people as you do and we are heavily armed? Remember Anarchy means no Authorities to turn to for help. No Police, no Military.

You would likely say, well, I'll form my own gang. You follow?



posted on Aug, 25 2010 @ 02:35 PM
link   
reply to post by mnemeth1
 


Gangs not only exist to supply and thrive in the government created black market. They also exist, as the founding members will testify to, to protect their own kind from government sanctioned gangs.

Nearly every minority gang in this country formed to counter rampant police brutality.



posted on Aug, 25 2010 @ 02:37 PM
link   

Originally posted by Blaine91555

Originally posted by mnemeth1
reply to post by ProjectJimmy
 


I'd pay for private roads, private schools, private security, private healthcare, private insurance, private automakers, private everything that I want in my life.



...and if the only way you could get food, water or transport your needs to you was to cross my land and I said no?

What if I decided I want what you have and I have ten times as many people as you do and we are heavily armed? Remember Anarchy means no Authorities to turn to for help. No Police, no Military.

You would likely say, well, I'll form my own gang. You follow?


You wouldn't say no because there would be profit involved.

That's how voluntary markets work.

People do things that make themselves better off, which includes selling land to road developers so that the developer can install a for-profit road.

if you chose not to sell, the developer will go around you.

They have these things call "options to buy" that allows a developer to plot out a long highway without the need to actually fully purchase the properties until everyone along the road agrees to sell.



posted on Aug, 25 2010 @ 02:38 PM
link   
reply to post by ProjectJimmy
 


Yes, yes, I understand. You are just a cog and the State is the creator of all great things, wealth, security and human rights - so why should they not take these things from you at will?
You, Mate, live in a strange land. I know a few of your countrymen that fiercely disagreed with your world view. They became Americans shortly after they discovered that they didn't really need the state to serve as mother and father, if it meant they should suffer it's abuse as well.
As to the 18th century slogan, "taxation without representation"; what can I say? Do you really not understand what is moral and fair?

I would gladly give up a whole host of so-called government services and pay a private company instead. At least I'd have the ability to fire them if they did not satisfy. At least I could sue for damages. At least they wouldn't send their agents to steal, rob and imprison me. At least it would be voluntary.




top topics



 
38
<< 3  4  5    7  8  9 >>

log in

join