7000 Citizens Violently Threatened By The State Of Indiana, page 2

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ATS Members have flagged this thread 38 times

reply posted on 24-8-2010 @ 05:50 PM by rakkasansct

So how does that work? Is everyone in the private government or only a select few? How long do you think it would last before they started taxing everyone? Who would provide protection against criminal elements? Everyone together all for one? You would have the same situation were in now. The government is not the problem. Its the mass of people not standing up to their government that is the problem.

reply posted on 24-8-2010 @ 05:51 PM by mnemeth1

Originally posted by Kaytagg
reply to post by mnemeth1

We can change things through the elctoral process. When is the last time anybody gave a non-MSM candidate more than 5 minutes, then dismissed them as "crazy," or "unelectable."

Btw, if you think there is going to be some kind of armed conflict resolution to your perceived problems with america, whether real or fake, it's not going to happen. I hope you fully understand that trying to overthrow the government through violence isn't an option.

I don't need to overthrow the government.

In case you missed the memo, its going to implode all on its own.

I give this government less than two years.

The bond market will implode before that time, possibly in the next month.

reply posted on 24-8-2010 @ 05:51 PM by dfens

If you choose not to pay taxes, does that still mean you are designated a taxpayer? Or is everyone classified as a taxpayer by simply being born and reaching an age of maturity, like by virtue of turning 18, the investment is finally matured and its time to collect?

Violent threats might be blowing it out of proportion, but they are threats. Extortion might be a better word though. How real are the threats though? How could they possibly arrest 7,000 people en masse for not paying taxes and where would they put them?

It seems to me that the cost of enforcement would net negative gain. Certain agencies might make a profit and maybe even hire an unemployed individual. Not likely, more likely to enhance bureaucracy and scare more people into paying the piper.

reply posted on 24-8-2010 @ 05:51 PM by mnemeth1

Originally posted by rakkasansct
So how does that work? Is everyone in the private government or only a select few? How long do you think it would last before they started taxing everyone? Who would provide protection against criminal elements? Everyone together all for one? You would have the same situation were in now. The government is not the problem. Its the mass of people not standing up to their government that is the problem.

YouTube Link

reply posted on 24-8-2010 @ 05:52 PM by mnemeth1

reply to post by dfens

Extortion typically involves the use of violent threats or blackmail.

reply posted on 24-8-2010 @ 05:56 PM by Demoncreeper

Originally posted by mnemeth1
reply to post by Demoncreeper

So threatening arrest of debtors does not involve violence?

I have a hard time following your logic.

So if I refused to pay, the police should hand me a lollipop and tell me I'm a bad person?

No. Being arrested means your rights are being temporarily deprived for a reason you caused. If you understand and comply with directions, no violence is required on either party. You're adding violence where it isn't. I agree that it is stupid to issue 7000 warrants in two days. But YOUR additional fear mongering is not necessary

And, in the U.S. if a warrant is issued for your arrest you have the choice to be processed without arrest, by turning yourself in. If I understand U.S. warrants correctly. Unless you kick your own a$$, there is no violence there either.

[edit on 24-8-2010 by Demoncreeper]

reply posted on 24-8-2010 @ 06:03 PM by mnemeth1

reply to post by Demoncreeper

Yeah, being arrested ALSO entails violence being waged against your person to accomplish the goal of depriving you of your rights.

ie. your rights are deprived through the use of violent action.

This is how rights are always deprived - through violence.

In a world where no one could cause physical harm to another person or their property against their will, taxes would be impossible to collect.

reply posted on 24-8-2010 @ 06:04 PM by thisguyrighthere

Originally posted by dfens

It seems to me that the cost of enforcement would net negative gain.

That's important right there.

How many millions does the gov spend to collect thousands?

They sent military troops and armored vehicles and military helicopters to harass the elderly Brows for months to collect a matter of thousands in back taxes. It cost the gov more to keep those helicopters flying for a few hours than they collected.

The money is just a small part of this extortion scheme.

The power and fear is what really drives them.

reply posted on 24-8-2010 @ 06:07 PM by mnemeth1

reply to post by thisguyrighthere

That's right.

It might cost a few million in police costs to collect on an armed tax evader that owes a few thousand, but the fear and intimidation is necessary to keep the other plebes in line.

Letting one plebe keep his property could result in all the plebes attempting to keep their property.

This would be a disaster for the tyrants in power.

reply posted on 24-8-2010 @ 06:14 PM by stirling

Taxes are collected either voluntarily or by force.
That there is no extreme violence does not negate the fact that taxes are taken in cash or kind from citizens whether they want to pay or not.
There is definately a violent overtone to the whole process and if you dont think so just try to withhold the money.
The goverment has become some kind of monster protection racket.
everything they demand we must comply with or face an organised army of armed men.
why should we not fear what the goverment has become,?The goverment does not care for its people.It self perpetuates and thats about it.
The people are merely herd anmals to be driven like cattle to the goverment prods.
We need a good housecleaning in all goverments of the day.Most have become closed clubs for the rich elite and not representative any longer.

reply posted on 24-8-2010 @ 06:15 PM by SmokeandShadow

Originally posted by mnemeth1

Originally posted by rakkasansct
So are you advocating for a monarchy? Or what form of govt do you think we should have?

no, I'm arguing for no State.

We should have a private law government administered by private common law courts.

Wait, wait...private as in corporate "for profit"? That doesn't seem too much better if at all. Can you clarify?

And yeah, all 7000 should have given the bird and went back to what they were doing.

reply posted on 24-8-2010 @ 06:18 PM by mnemeth1

Originally posted by SmokeandShadow

Wait, wait...private as in corporate "for profit"? That doesn't seem too much better if at all. Can you clarify?

And yeah, all 7000 should have given the bird and went back to what they were doing.

I know the word "profit" in the socialist lexicon means someone comes to your home and loots you at gun point, but trust me when I tell you that is exactly the opposite of what occurs.

As we can see - taxes are where someone comes to your home and robs you at gun point.

Private profits are where you provide a service to the public that the public is willing to pay for voluntarily without the use of force.

edit:

oh yes, and to clarify, many countries civil courts operate this way.

The loser bringing litigation pays the court costs of the winner.

[edit on 24-8-2010 by mnemeth1]

reply posted on 24-8-2010 @ 06:31 PM by 12m8keall2c

I hate to be the fly in the vaseline here, but the rather apparent and obviously agenda-laden depictions put forth thus far couldn't be further from the truth, Nor could they be More ill-conceived, intentionally contrived and misleading.

These were deliquent tax notices, that were Most certainly assessed and made known to these individuals Well before the "cutoff date".

However, they either put off, waited until the final cutoff or found themselves unable to accomplish the same in due time.

NO one was violently threatened.

NO one involved or included were without prior notice of the same being/coming due.

Nor did Any recipient of the same have Any law/tax enforcement entities pounding on their door(s) threatening and/or seeking retribution, reparation(s) for the same.

Way to do just that which we see decried on the boards day in and day out by the mainstream media, Opening Post.

Unmitigated, Unsubstantiated, Hype to drive home a Purpose ... and Agenda. FTW ~~FAIL~~.

A mountain out of a molehill would Certainly seem an understatement with regards said depiction and/or misrepresentation having taken place here.

7000 Citizens Violently Threatened By The State Of Indiana

Hardly.

More like 7,000 citizens called upon to rightfully pay outstanding balances due.

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A ridiculous thread/title/approach even the second time 'round.

[edit on 24-8-2010 by 12m8keall2c]

reply posted on 24-8-2010 @ 06:34 PM by Demoncreeper

Originally posted by mnemeth1
reply to post by Demoncreeper

Yeah, being arrested ALSO entails violence being waged against your person to accomplish the goal of depriving you of your rights.

ie. your rights are deprived through the use of violent action.

This is how rights are always deprived - through violence.

In a world where no one could cause physical harm to another person or their property against their will, taxes would be impossible to collect.

No.

I've arrested bucket loads of people without violence.

Your rights are deprived as a result of YOUR actions.

If YOU choose it to be violent, then it will be.

Physical harm isn't the threat here. People feared the outcome of being arrested. I.E. Jail time. Having their rights permanently taken away for a period of time. That's why they showed up in the hundreds to make payment arrangements. Not because they feared violence. (Otherwise they all would have shown up)

That 77 year old woman wasn't afraid that the government would strong arm her for a couple thousand dollars. She was afraid of spending her final years in jail.

But inject what you want here.

Bottom line is, pay your taxes.

reply posted on 24-8-2010 @ 06:42 PM by dfens

reply to post by mnemeth1

Yes, but if it were not a government entity pushing this then it would surely be extortion.

People fail to pay taxes for many different reasons, that is irrelevant because it happens all the time. The real problem would be the people who are simply negligent, then find out they owe many times more because of their negligence and flatout refuse to pay. A 50$ tab can turn into a thousand very fast. My suspicion is that these are the situations that are being enforced by these arrest warrants.

As evidenced by this thread, the fear campaign works. Pay or sit in jail. People won't want to find out, so they'll play dudley doright and keep the system going. I really think they just want to get people in court so they can take whatever they can. That happens all the time too. Still, hard to get blood from a turnip, and the only real payoff would be to scare the rest of the mob into being good citizens and ponying up their share. The real tax cheats have no problem with arrest warrants. They disappear.

reply posted on 24-8-2010 @ 06:42 PM by thisguyrighthere

Originally posted by Demoncreeper
That 77 year old woman wasn't afraid that the government would strong arm her for a couple thousand dollars. She was afraid of spending her final years in jail.

What do you thing the threat of jail was if not "strong arming" the old lady?

It simply astonishes me that you don't see the threat of imprisonment as violent. But since you said "I've arrested..." I have a better idea of why you dont see it as violent. You're on of the perpetrators. The enforcer rarely questions the mob boss. He just uses simple minded justification to get beyond something he doesnt quite understand like "just pay your taxes."

reply posted on 24-8-2010 @ 07:00 PM by mnemeth1

reply to post by 12m8keall2c

www.theindychannel.com...

Warrants were issued for 7,000 taxpayers, and many of them showed up at the same time, eager to set up payments on overdue state taxes to avoid arrest.

"We received an inordinate amount of warrants from the Indiana Department of Revenue," said Julio Fernandez, spokesman for MCSD.

Arrest Warrant

An arrest warrant is a warrant issued by and on behalf of the state, which authorizes the arrest and detention of an individual.

Arrest:

The word 'arrest' when used in its ordinary and natural sense, means the apprehension or restraint of a person, or the deprivation of a person's liberty.

So......

Yeah...

No one was threatened with physical violence and my post is entirely misleading in its content.

[edit on 24-8-2010 by mnemeth1]

reply posted on 24-8-2010 @ 07:04 PM by Demoncreeper

Originally posted by thisguyrighthere

Originally posted by Demoncreeper
That 77 year old woman wasn't afraid that the government would strong arm her for a couple thousand dollars. She was afraid of spending her final years in jail.

What do you thing the threat of jail was if not "strong arming" the old lady?

It simply astonishes me that you don't see the threat of imprisonment as violent. But since you said "I've arrested..." I have a better idea of why you dont see it as violent. You're on of the perpetrators. The enforcer rarely questions the mob boss. He just uses simple minded justification to get beyond something he doesnt quite understand like "just pay your taxes."

Let me re articulate then. She did not fear the fact that someone was coming to beat her up. Nice dodge though.

Tell me exactly how you think the world will run without someone to enforce the rules. Wait, like you assumed about me, let me make one about you.

You "think that the reason 99% of the nation is middle class or lower is that there is a form of oppression because surely there is enough for EVERYONE to be rich". You must be one of "The young (often naive) folks that post about all this oppression assume that they can somehow have the freedom to do whatever they want because if given the chance humanity actually won't just simply consume itself in an anarchical fire. right?"

quoted from my thread here:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

I worked as a public servant of people(the actual mob boss

) who gladly paid taxes to ensure their safety and freedom.
For those who decided on their own, that the rules didn't have to apply to them, well, I did what the people paid me to do.

Can't have rules without someone to enforce them.

Yes, pay your taxes.

[edit on 24-8-2010 by Demoncreeper]

reply posted on 24-8-2010 @ 07:06 PM by 12m8keall2c

Arrest warrants are only issued when all other means of collection/payment have typically long-since been exhausted.

In other words ... these folks were notified that if they didn't pay their delinquent taxes by a given date/time a warrant would be issued for their arrest.

Nothing police state nor totalitarian there ... mere proper and consequential procedure. (?)

reply posted on 24-8-2010 @ 07:32 PM by Aliensun

Oh, boy! Twice in one day you post outrageously misconstrued info on your threads. Did Indiana, a rather benign state, haul these people up by their thumbs? They got threatening letters!!!! Oh, my! They didn't pay their taxes! Wow! Send them to re-education camps so they can know their rights to pay taxes, and learn some little memory tricks so they won't forget it next time. Where is the Terminator when Indiana needs him?

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