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7000 Citizens Violently Threatened By The State Of Indiana

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posted on Aug, 26 2010 @ 02:52 PM
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off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


 




posted on Aug, 26 2010 @ 02:52 PM
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Originally posted by Buddywhasisname
reply to post by Demoncreeper
 


Dude......you do know that taxes are a fraud....right?

Your taxes go to pay the interest on the national debt.......that the government owes the fed/international foriegn interests. Think about it.....why would a nation give up it's right to print their own currency backed by something of value......only to give it to a private organization to print and have it lent back to them at interest? Why? Isn't it funny how the federal reserve act and the 16th amendment were passed rather surreptitously in the same year?

Check it out before you become a mouthpiece for the tyrants that want your liberty.......

pay you damn taxes.........what a joke


Learn to read.

I'm Canadian.
Your "amendments" are for the U.S.

Also, the title is still misleading as stated in my original first post. Which was my original point.

It's not my fault YOU feel oppressed, sad, angry and think the world owes you just because you were born in it...
I just worked for the laws that the citizens called for. If that is a terrible contribution to society, then so be it. My intent wasn't to be oppressive and tyrannical. The whole tax evasion bit is wishy washy anyways. .

I also haven't ever said the system is perfect. It is far from it. But a job is a job and I did mine with some pride due to my strong WORK ethics. I never thought I was Joe MOUNTIE 24-7 (Off duty). I felt good about providing a roof, food and shelter for my family. I enjoy my time with the family much more than I enjoy my job. And I liked my job. My job was what enabled quality time with the family. But I did enjoy being able to help people as a job. Not tyranically dictating them. You all need to get over yourselves and stop stereotyping people with your eyes closed..

If you don't want to be a positive member of society, so be it. You are still subject to their laws while here. Advocate for change, that is your right under the FREEDOMS you have here.


[edit on 26-8-2010 by Demoncreeper]



posted on Aug, 26 2010 @ 03:11 PM
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off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


 



posted on Aug, 26 2010 @ 06:51 PM
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reply to post by mnemeth1
 

I said threats - threats - threats of violence.
Threating to arrest someone for not paying their taxes is a violent threat against their person.
If you don't pay, bad things are physically going to happen to you.


No, you didn't. Read your own title if you are afraid to admit it.

You have NOT YET shown any proof of a threat of arrest or any other "violence."

Your thread is a lie.



posted on Aug, 26 2010 @ 06:59 PM
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reply to post by mnemeth1
 

The State takes great pains to hide the violence as much as possible and to diffuse it across as wide a spectrum of actors as possible.

For example, what would happen to the business owners that don't agree to automatically fork over their employees taxes?

What would happen to the bank owners that refuse to cooperate in account confiscation?

Ultimately - the ultimate end of this collection process is the gun.


The "tax warrant" process is a CIVIL action; there is no criminal enforcement provision in the statute. If you would read the links to the IDOR site instead of fantasizing, you might be able to make a coherent argument.

Denying the truth does your thread no good. Except lengthen it.

The business owner who do bot pay taxes lose their right to do business. Their property may be sold at auction.

The bank owners do not refuse; they would lose their charters to do business as well.

As JPZ points out, "This is the rule of law."

Your anarchist sentiments are enforced by "the gun," and "threats of violence. Since there is no higher authority in your imaginary world, the only rule is might makes right.

Most Americans do not live in your imaginary world. They abide by the rule of law.

deny ignorance

jw



posted on Aug, 26 2010 @ 07:03 PM
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reply to post by mnemeth1
 

If we were to create a situation where no government employee could own a gun, yet every citizen could own a gun, we could justifiably say the forcible collection of non-voluntary taxes would be impossible.


That situation already exists, proving your assertions 100% false and delusional.

No government employee uses firearms to enforce tax liens. Every citizen has the right to own firearms. Taxes are still being collected voluntarily and involuntarily.

Your argument and logic are utterly wrong.

Deny ignorance

jw



posted on Aug, 26 2010 @ 07:10 PM
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reply to post by Jean Paul Zodeaux
 

By this definition, the O.P. is consistent with his standards.


His "standards" are premised upon fantasy. There are no "threats" made of any offensive physical contact in the issuance of a tax warrant. Moreover, your subjective perception is irrelevant under the "reasonable man" standard of the common law.

The OP is not a "reasonable man" under any standard, and his subjective beliefs and perceptions do not change "the Rule of Law."

Even if a "threat" were made, the law grants legal authorities the license to use "reasonable force" to effect an arrest. Thus, it is NOT an assault to conduct a lawful arrest.

All that is beside the point; there is NO ARREST WARRANT involved in a civil action to effect a tax lien through a tax warrant to the County Clerk.

The OP is deluded and intentionally misleading.

deny ignorance
jw



posted on Aug, 26 2010 @ 07:12 PM
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reply to post by mnemeth1
 

I did not lie.

Sending out arrest warrants is a violent threat.


There are no arrest warrants. There are no violent threats. There are no threats. There is a lien.

Your thread is a lie.

deny ignorance

jw



posted on Aug, 26 2010 @ 07:15 PM
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reply to post by jdub297
 


Stamping your feet doesn't turn me into a liar.

What matters to me in my arguments is that I reach reasonable people with them.

I consider you an unreasonable person, so ultimately to me, it doesn't matter if you think I'm a liar or not.

Any reasonable person that has read my response to you, which I have laid out at least 3 times now, is going to understand why I am not lying and why my arguments are legitimate.



posted on Aug, 26 2010 @ 07:16 PM
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reply to post by Demoncreeper
 


Taxes are a joke and it's a very hard and complicated process, but if you got the time you most definitely will not have to pay taxes...How well do you know your legalese aye?



posted on Aug, 26 2010 @ 07:22 PM
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reply to post by mnemeth1
 

The article specifically says "arrest" - I can read - I have two eyes.

Thus, I did not lie.


You did not start this thread quoting any article; you made a false assertion of fact.

You can blame your source, or your failure to perform any rational analysis, but when you make a false statement of fact, it is a lie.

"7000 Citizens Violently Threatened.... ."" is a false statement. It is your own. The article does not say this.

The thread is a lie.

deny ignorance.

jw



posted on Aug, 26 2010 @ 07:31 PM
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I agree with jdub, this topic is a fat lie.

There were no arrest warrants, or any violence, or threats.

Everyone knows that tax evasion is a criminal offense, hence why people said they didn't want to get arrested. They didn't receive arrest warrants, they received civil warrants which are often mistaken as arrest warrants, but they are not.

This topic is just a sorry attempt at sensationalism to provoke outrage.



posted on Aug, 26 2010 @ 07:43 PM
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reply to post by Lightrule
 

the pro-taxers in this thread and specifically the people saying there was nothing violent about issuing 7000 warrants for people's arrest (either of person or property it matters not) are brainwashed into believing if no one gets physically beat or shot then no violence has occurred, they can't see the shades of gray.


1st, no one was threatened with arrest.

2nd, property can not be "arrested" either.

There is no legal or rational basis for your assertion.

Do you honestly believe that someone adjudged liable for a debt in a court of law should not have to pay it, or have it collected from them through civil process?

3rd, there is NOTHING "violent" about placing a lien on property through filing a tax warrant with the County clerk.

Where do you get support for your assertions? The same imaginary world of the OP??

deny ignorance

jw



posted on Aug, 26 2010 @ 08:08 PM
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Originally posted by Demoncreeper

Originally posted by Buddywhasisname
reply to post by Demoncreeper
 


Dude......you do know that taxes are a fraud....right?

Your taxes go to pay the interest on the national debt.......that the government owes the fed/international foriegn interests. Think about it.....why would a nation give up it's right to print their own currency backed by something of value......only to give it to a private organization to print and have it lent back to them at interest? Why? Isn't it funny how the federal reserve act and the 16th amendment were passed rather surreptitously in the same year?

Check it out before you become a mouthpiece for the tyrants that want your liberty.......

pay you damn taxes.........what a joke


Learn to read.

I'm Canadian.
Your "amendments" are for the U.S.

Also, the title is still misleading as stated in my original first post. Which was my original point.

It's not my fault YOU feel oppressed, sad, angry and think the world owes you just because you were born in it...
I just worked for the laws that the citizens called for. If that is a terrible contribution to society, then so be it. My intent wasn't to be oppressive and tyrannical. The whole tax evasion bit is wishy washy anyways. .

I also haven't ever said the system is perfect. It is far from it. But a job is a job and I did mine with some pride due to my strong WORK ethics. I never thought I was Joe MOUNTIE 24-7 (Off duty). I felt good about providing a roof, food and shelter for my family. I enjoy my time with the family much more than I enjoy my job. And I liked my job. My job was what enabled quality time with the family. But I did enjoy being able to help people as a job. Not tyranically dictating them. You all need to get over yourselves and stop stereotyping people with your eyes closed..

If you don't want to be a positive member of society, so be it. You are still subject to their laws while here. Advocate for change, that is your right under the FREEDOMS you have here.


[edit on 26-8-2010 by Demoncreeper]


pffffffff...........The same thing is going on here (I am Canadian also) and the rest of the "civilized" world.

Don't tell me how I feel.....you know nothing...the world owes me nothing....it just has to let me be me.....(which is a pretty good dude by the way)...and now you claim to be a judge as to who is a positive member of society???? And that seems to bench on paying fraudulant taxes????? Keep the brain and heart off and just listen eh? Pitiful.

I'm sure you helped people.....no doubt about that.....but did you ever think that you have no right to enforce a "law" that forbids me from putting what I want in my own body?(or is it mine? hmmmm......) or collecting rainwater? Or crossing the street in a particular spot? The list goes on and on and on. You have the gall to talk about freedom.

Get your head on straight......I didn't call for any of these "laws" to be enforced on me. I am not SUBJECT to anyone or anything, save my creator. They are en-FORCED under threat of violence. There is only one law, treat others with respect and dignity. Do unto others.....you know what I mean.

As long as people have the "a job is a job", "Just pay your taxes" mentality.........the world will continue to be a really weird and messed up place to be.



posted on Aug, 26 2010 @ 08:49 PM
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reply to post by Demoncreeper
 


Misleading title???????????
Have you ever been arrested before?
Handcuffed (for you, I mean unwillingly
just kidding)! booked and thrown in jail with a bunch screaming, crotch holding animals?
Yes!

It is Violent!
You shouldn't be so indignant and insensitive.



posted on Aug, 26 2010 @ 09:00 PM
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reply to post by Violater1
 


Yes it is 100% misleading. Nobody "violently" did anything.

NOBODY was handcuffed, so everything you said is irrelevant.



posted on Aug, 26 2010 @ 09:14 PM
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Originally posted by Buddywhasisname


pffffffff...........The same thing is going on here (I am Canadian also) and the rest of the "civilized" world.

Don't tell me how I feel.....you know nothing...the world owes me nothing....it just has to let me be me.....(which is a pretty good dude by the way)...and now you claim to be a judge as to who is a positive member of society???? And that seems to bench on paying fraudulant taxes????? Keep the brain and heart off and just listen eh? Pitiful.

I'm sure you helped people.....no doubt about that.....but did you ever think that you have no right to enforce a "law" that forbids me from putting what I want in my own body?(or is it mine? hmmmm......) or collecting rainwater? Or crossing the street in a particular spot? The list goes on and on and on. You have the gall to talk about freedom.

Get your head on straight......I didn't call for any of these "laws" to be enforced on me. I am not SUBJECT to anyone or anything, save my creator. They are en-FORCED under threat of violence. There is only one law, treat others with respect and dignity. Do unto others.....you know what I mean.

As long as people have the "a job is a job", "Just pay your taxes" mentality.........the world will continue to be a really weird and messed up place to be.



Laws have to be enforced. No matter what they are. You want to live on earth, there are certain things you must abide by, to successfully exist in ANY society. Most laws are based on simple things. Yes, some suck. Change them. Again, it is your right based on the freedom your grandparents fought for in wars. Hopefully you will hopefully never have to endure similar atrocities and ACTUAL violence. (Unlike the 'violent threat' in the misleading title of the thread.

I don't doubt you are a good dude.

I'll look at it your way. Do you think I like paying taxes? Take 25% off my pay cheque right off the start, then at the store, on my beer, clothes, cars, gas...etc. Why should I have to pay on all that, when I already pay right off the top?? Double dipping. Tripple dipping. I effin get that part!

I get that it is stupid to pay. But I feel it is my RIGHT to choose. I'm part native. I hold a status card. I could live on a res and pay nothing. Have the government send me my 10 pounds of flour and a case of .22 shells. *(yes they still do that).

I get it. But screaming anarchy will only bring you the chaos you all seem to long for. Yes it will bring change. But you will see TRUE violence at the crumble. That is saddening. You don't appreciate the things you do have.

The change may be worse, because someone has to be in charge.
Then, they will have taxes
laws
and enforcers.
..and perceived oppression.


For a multitude of reasons, I've stepped down from that realm of law enforcement. My big brother job now isn't as sinister as governmental control. It's private control. Casino style. Nice $$ there and I still get to catch bad guys. haha.

But please. See it from my side, now for a minute.

A man brutally kills his neighbor.
Witnesses see it.
He admits it, upon the first officer attending.
Officer fails to follow certain procedure during processing. Clerical error. Man is found NOT GUILTY *(clerical error), because the laws were written by greedy power hungry politicians. (Who I AGREE can seem very criminal in nature.)

Man goes home and kills his wife, 2 kids and self.


7000 people still weren't violently threatened as the thread title suggests.

1981 constitution changes in Canada FUBAR'd law enforcement to act anywhere as near as tyrannical as some would have you believe or say.. But man, does it protect the guilty criminals. I'm not talking about the tax evaders here, either.

Even the RCMP institution is revealing its crookedness.

I was not crooked.
I believe you have the freedom to not be protected by the people who are paid by your tax dollars.
I treated every person I came across, with dignity. Including the one who shot at me.

You don't know either. So now what?

Hypersensitive hypocrisy rules this thread.
Not real life.



posted on Aug, 26 2010 @ 09:19 PM
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Originally posted by Violater1
reply to post by Demoncreeper
 


Misleading title???????????
Have you ever been arrested before?
Handcuffed (for you, I mean unwillingly
just kidding)! booked and thrown in jail with a bunch screaming, crotch holding animals?
Yes!

It is Violent!
You shouldn't be so indignant and insensitive.


Don't break the LAW!

But those ANIMALS (who are people by the way)are the ones who would wind up in charge, without someone keeping the peace and enforcing the law.

The bleeding hearts screaming for anarchy wouldn't stand a chance against the gutter who would emerge and take what you think you are going to get after you rid your government and law enforcers.


Don't be fooled.



posted on Aug, 26 2010 @ 09:24 PM
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reply to post by Demoncreeper
 

A better idea is to not respond at all, let them come and arrest you, and do not bail out. Fight it out in court and clog up the jails and courts. Who is going to pay for that? How much money is that going to cost? Don't be afraid and don't give in. The whole system will collapse.



posted on Aug, 26 2010 @ 10:39 PM
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reply to post by Demoncreeper
 


So, you are Canadian. Why are you lecturing US taxpayers then? What do you care what us crazy Americans think anyway?
You have the bloody Queen of England on your money and you presume to look down your runny nose at us? Pfff!

gtfokk thanks

[edit on 26-8-2010 by Smack]



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