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7000 Citizens Violently Threatened By The State Of Indiana

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posted on Aug, 26 2010 @ 12:19 AM
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reply to post by Lightrule
 


If you are not a citizen then why are you crying about paying taxes? If you have to pay taxes, you are probably a citizen.

By the way... I am not a slave.

A slave is someone who works against their will for someone else. I don't do anything against my will.

According to the CRYING that you have been doing on this topic, I see that YOU are the pathetic slave.

Me, I work to support MY SELF.. I volunteer to pay taxes for MY OWN REASONS. I pay taxes so my friends and family can go to public schools. So my friends and family and my self can enjoy the benefits of having 911, and emergency response 24/7. I pay taxes so my military can protect my land. I pay taxes so I can have a nice smooth highway system to drive my vehicle on.

YOU ARE THE MENTAL SLAVES BECAUSE YOU FOOLED YOURSELF INTO THINKING SOME BIG BAD MONSTER IS CONTROLLING YOU.

You are like a child who thinks there is a monster under their bed.


Nobody controls me but my self.

I am willingly paying for these things. That means I am NOT a slave.



[edit on 26-8-2010 by Unst0ppable0ne]




posted on Aug, 26 2010 @ 12:33 AM
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reply to post by Unst0ppable0ne
 


How do you explain the legality of welfare? People are receiving government benefits but not paying for them. By your own words, this appears unethical.

Government is supposed by be by the consent of the governed. Would you agree with that idea?



posted on Aug, 26 2010 @ 12:35 AM
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reply to post by Jean Paul Zodeaux
 


If you can't tell that I was simplifying a complex thing, then YOU sir are far more ignorant that I will ever be.

I know citizenship is not the only thing that determines taxation. I know that foreigners who work within the US must pay income tax. I know these things. Don't mistake my simplification as ignorance or I will just think you are ignorant.

My point is... if you want to live in an area protected by police that are payed for by taxes, you should help pay for said protection. If you use roads maintained by taxes, you should pay taxes. If you use any public services payed for by taxes, you should pay taxes.

It is simple... very simple... If you enjoy these benifits without paying, you should have your stuff sold of to pay for it.

[edit on 26-8-2010 by Unst0ppable0ne]



posted on Aug, 26 2010 @ 12:52 AM
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Originally posted by truthquest
reply to post by Unst0ppable0ne
 


How do you explain the legality of welfare? People are receiving government benefits but not paying for them. By your own words, this appears unethical.


Welfare is a benefit that you, me, or anyone should have access to if we are in a time of need. It's like ensurance. We should pay for it in case we ever need it.

Welfare is only unethical if the person on welfare doesn't pay taxes at some point in their life. Welfare doesn't last forever.. and not everybody can get it (well so they say). Sooner or later that person on welfare will have to pay taxes, so, why not have that service?

I despise those who abuse it, and I think something should be done about those who are too lazy to at least try to get off of it. But the service is just another benefit that we all should have at our fingertips to make the world a better place.

If you are against welfare, well why don't you do something about it?

P.S. Don't tell MNEMETH that the government gives people money (welfare)... it might destroy his psychosis!




Originally posted by truthquest
Government is supposed by be by the consent of the governed. Would you agree with that idea?


I agree.



posted on Aug, 26 2010 @ 01:06 AM
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reply to post by Unst0ppable0ne
 


I don't pay any taxes, I have stated this before. But now it requires explanation.

My employer does not with-hold a single cent of my pay cheques for tax. Not a penny, I did this by serving him a Notice (special type of letter) that stated he has no right to take my taxes unless I ask him to and that in exchange for the release of all my hard earned dollars, I take full responsibility for any tax owed at tax time. I still don't pay a cent come April. I got one letter a few years back from CRA that basically said "We know where you work and we believe that you owe us X amount of money." I sent them a nice notice via registered mail (so they couldn't claim they were not served notice) demanding proof of their claim within 14 days that I owe anything at all. Haven't heard from them since. Easy, and it really only took about 15 minutes of legal study and a set of brass balls but you know what? Tax man is gone from my life.

Also I don't do it although the option is open for me to, I can go to the government offices and request the forms to get back every cent of tax I have payed on gasoline as well. The problem is every time I have tried this the paper work ALWAYS gets lost... ALWAYS. They are forever helpful and apologetic but if I just take the time and effort to fill out the 15 forms and calculate all the numbers based off a whole years worth of gas receipts just ONE MORE TIME, it might get through. Yeah... Right... This by the way is only offered and kept on the down low and away from the people because Native Americans don't pay gas tax. Its part of the whole, "everyone is equal under law" thing. They have to offer it, they just don't have to tell you they are offering it.

Same goes for things like GST and PST here...

-Lightrule



posted on Aug, 26 2010 @ 01:11 AM
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reply to post by Unst0ppable0ne
 





If you can't tell that I was simplifying a complex thing, then YOU sir are far more ignorant that I will ever be.


I absolutely understood you were attempting to simplify a complex "thing". The United States Tax Code, is a five volume set with millions of words in it, and it is always the petty tyrants who attempt to "simplify" what is just too complex to be simplified. These petty tyrants do so in order to justify their tyranny, and no ignorant soul will fall prey to such disingenuous behavior.




I know citizenship is not the only thing that determines taxation. I know that foreigners who work within the US must pay income tax. I know these things. Don't mistake my simplification as ignorance or I will just think you are ignorant.


It matters not what petty tyrants think of me, as I am making perfectly clear by ascribing the term petty tyrant to you, what I think of you. Further, your ignorance goes well beyond "simplification", and your ignorance of the law is inexcusable.




My point is... if you want to live in an area protected by police that are payed for by taxes, you should help pay for said protection. If you use roads maintained by taxes, you should pay taxes. If you use any public services payed for by taxes, you should pay taxes.


Here you reveal your ignorance of tax law and how taxes work. The example of police is just one example of your ignorance. Police are paid for by revenues raised by the city that employs police. City's have two sources of revenue in terms of taxation and they are property taxes, and sales taxes.

A child of not more than five years old is not paying any property tax, and arguably not paying any sales tax but has just as much of a reasonable expectation of protection from police as does an adult, and demonstrably, children are protected by police.

Homeless people living in a homeless shelter are clearly not paying any property tax, and again, arguably not paying much in the way of sales tax, but they too have a reasonable expectation of police protection.




It is simple... very simple... If you enjoy these benifits without paying, you should have your stuff sold of to pay for it.


That's right, take the very clothes off an infants back and sell it in the name of taxation. Take their toys, their crib, their bottle and diapers and sell them in the name of taxation. But what of the homeless person who has nothing to sell? Why, according to your tyranny, they should just leave the country. Of course, where would they go, as all countries have government that levy taxes?

You're a tyrant, and the worst insipid kind of tyrant, you are the kind that hides behind generalizations and "simplification" in order to justify your tyranny.



posted on Aug, 26 2010 @ 01:25 AM
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Originally posted by Lightrule

Exuberant1 is correct. You still didn't deserve the torture, you sound like you have grown up and matured quite a bit since those trying times you have described, if you honestly feel like you should have been punished then who are we to argue? I just hope that you took your licks for committing an actual crime and not something you were only told is a crime.

That being said its people like you that make me fight harder for my beliefs, you are the proof people need to see that people ARE capable of making positive changes for themselves. Even if they have made mistakes. Thank you.

-Lightrule


Hell yeah.I took my licks because I was an idiot.
However,I changed because the laws make more sense when 50000 volts are screaming through your body. Fall in line, sheep. Ok. my baaaaad. I'm a lot less stressed now. Believe you me.
I also believed that some things shouldn't be a crime. Sadly, just my opinion of it being a dumb law didn't change the law of it.
The people I knew, told me "we deserve it, so take it". 'There is more than enough for everyone'. Pretty soon I was part of the fear you feel in a dark alley, or rough part of town. I had become worse than any fascist gov't you think rules your country or mine.

You might think you are badass for sticking it to the man with your words, but really.......... I mean no offense, it's a nice cause. But do any of you guys arguing against fascist criminal governments rock the boat in real life?
Without laws to protect you from me, you'd have been dinner when everything else fell apart and I was hungry.
Private security rather than police? holy crap dude, bad Idea.They have NO ONE to answer to when the greed gets them. And it will.Power, greed.......it gets everyone in a position of any power.......eventually.
We either keep what we have or live like they do in prison. Big dogs get the best stuff, everyone else gets #. Nothing like it is out here.

Someone said beer.Can I come?
sorry for the crappy block text and punctuation.My fingers are way bigger than the buttons on my damn phone.



posted on Aug, 26 2010 @ 01:36 AM
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What a wonderfully passionate thread! Wow! I love it.

Looking through the discourse however, I still see trouble ahead. Why is it that the collectivist mind is unable to relinquish domination, control and threats of violence against a free soul?

I'm holding on as we spin the cycle through this one again. Fortunately or not (depending upon in which camp one finds fraternity) I'm teaching my youngsters to deny the collectivist, and if all else fails- head to the Gulch. ;-)

The collectivists rallied under the spreading wings of the Roman Legion, drenched themselves in blood against enemies of Olaf the Betrayer and Torquemada, cried to see their flag wave in the cool breeze and patted one another on the back with the deaths of men, women and children whom they could not bend the knee of.

In some ways, it is the very contest of all humanity- a worker within the hive, or a unique free spirit... but that is likely to be a different thread.



posted on Aug, 26 2010 @ 01:39 AM
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reply to post by bad man incorporated
 


I said beer, and you are MORE THAN WELCOME to come!


I rock the boat everyday brother, I don't always sit around on ATS. See my last post, I and many more like me are out there everyday fighting "the man" in peaceful ways. After all the only way to non-violently protest the government is to revoke your permission for them to represent you, and to stop paying your taxes to show that you in fact DO NOT support their current policies. How else would we non-violently protest? Take to the streets? SWAT loves the practice, so I hear...

Oppressive government or "Big Dog" Prison rule are not the only options by a long shot, there are many many other ways we could solve our problems. Its our job as the creators of government to solve these problems, not government, government can only do what we say, or in our current world, oppress us. A lot of people seem to be able to understand that our current system is broken, but those same people are only making the problems worse by towing the party line and saying things like "just pay your taxes" our just paying our taxes and being docile is what has created this mess, we wanted to create government, but what we got were babysitters. OUR FAULT, Now we have to make some tough choices to fix our mistakes.

-Lightrule



posted on Aug, 26 2010 @ 01:49 AM
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Originally posted by Lightrule
I don't pay any taxes, I have stated this before.
-Lightrule


Then why are you crying like a baby about taxes??



posted on Aug, 26 2010 @ 01:54 AM
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Originally posted by Unst0ppable0ne

Originally posted by Lightrule
I don't pay any taxes, I have stated this before.
-Lightrule


Then why are you crying like a baby about taxes??



Are you daft man? I'm not crying about taxes I'm attempting to show you how it is unlawful to arrest people for not paying taxes. Well I was, no matter how hard you try you can never show a blind man the color red.


The government called for you, they said, "Pay Up Sucka!"

-Lightrule



posted on Aug, 26 2010 @ 02:05 AM
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Originally posted by Jean Paul Zodeaux
Here you reveal your ignorance of tax law and how taxes work. The example of police is just one example of your ignorance. Police are paid for by revenues raised by the city that employs police. City's have two sources of revenue in terms of taxation and they are property taxes, and sales taxes.



...and here you reveal your ignorance of reading comprehension. I already know police are paid for by property and sales taxes.


Originally posted by Jean Paul Zodeaux
A child of not more than five years old is not paying any property tax, and arguably not paying any sales tax but has just as much of a reasonable expectation of protection from police as does an adult, and demonstrably, children are protected by police.


That is a PATHETIC straw man argument. We are not talking about children. Obviously children are in no position to pay taxes.

What the heck is your problem? Why would you even mention children paying taxes if you are not purposely grasping at straws to make an argument?



Originally posted by Jean Paul Zodeaux
Homeless people living in a homeless shelter are clearly not paying any property tax, and again, arguably not paying much in the way of sales tax, but they too have a reasonable expectation of police protection.


Keyword "ARGUABLY" not paying sale tax.

You destroy your own argument before you even start.


Originally posted by Jean Paul Zodeaux
That's right, take the very clothes off an infants back and sell it in the name of taxation.


I didn't say anything about clothes on infants backs!

Your property yes. Clothes of of infants backs... no...


Originally posted by Jean Paul Zodeaux
Take their toys, their crib, their bottle and diapers and sell them in the name of taxation.


I didn't say anything about any of that... you are just making this crap up! What a pathetic tactic!


Originally posted by Jean Paul Zodeaux
But what of the homeless person who has nothing to sell?


Make them get a job!

Your post is completely pathetic!

If people can't pay their taxes there is such thing as payment plans! It's like a loan! You can pay off your debt in small payment without anything being taken away. Your complete ignorance of such a concept is outragous!

YOU FAIL



posted on Aug, 26 2010 @ 02:10 AM
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reply to post by Unst0ppable0ne
 


lol! he totally broke you unstoppable.

Incredibly, you walked right into it!

Goes back to what I mentioned as a polarized value base. He has you within reason, and you will be unable to understand it based upon such a different value system.

A great read though!



posted on Aug, 26 2010 @ 02:10 AM
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Originally posted by Lightrule
Are you daft man? I'm not crying about taxes I'm attempting to show you how it is unlawful to arrest people for not paying taxes.


Are you dumb man? I just showed you nobody was being arrested for not paying taxes.


Originally posted by Lightrule
Well I was, no matter how hard you try you can never show a blind man the color red.



I'm sorry to hear you are blind. It definetly explains your lack of ability to read clearly. Maybe you can blame it on your text-to-speach program.



Originally posted by Lightrule
The government called for you, they said, "Pay Up Sucka!"
-Lightrule


I don't owe the government any money. So, yeah, YOU FAILED.



posted on Aug, 26 2010 @ 02:15 AM
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Originally posted by sakokrap
lol! he totally broke you unstoppable.

Incredibly, you walked right into it!

Goes back to what I mentioned as a polarized value base. He has you within reason, and you will be unable to understand it based upon such a different value system.

A great read though!


Nobody broke anything. I didn't step into anything either. If anything, he stepped into a bottomless pit.

I am capable of understanding every value system, not just one.

I made a simple argument about basic services (one of them being police) and he thought he could be clever and use that against me in some way, but it actually does nothing to my argument.

My argument is;

If you use public services, you should pay for them.

You can't argue against this... anyone trying is a fool.



[edit on 26-8-2010 by Unst0ppable0ne]



posted on Aug, 26 2010 @ 02:45 AM
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Originally posted by Demoncreeper
Pay your damn taxes



"Our" taxes?

Why should we owe so much? This country got along fine for over 100 years without a tax on your labor.

Who owns your labor? And why do those who labor not, not owe the same debt as everyone else? Aren't they under the same "protections" of the government as the taxpayers?

FYI, the graduated income tax is one of the planks of the communist manifesto.

The government you have so much faith in is the mafia.

Pay your protection money is more like it.



posted on Aug, 26 2010 @ 02:57 AM
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Well, I decided to finally leave this topic (again) because it is obvious that pretty much everyone who cries about taxes doesn't understand this current reality and what is necessary for civilization.

Most of the people on ATS have brainwashed themselves with a darkened view of the world, and it is near impossible to hold a normal converstaion with them because everything to them is about some big bad monster controlling their every move, and they think they are all slaves, etc. and it is near impossible to hold a converstaion with someone who is stuck in this type of psychosis.

I really feel sorry for you people.

Have fun patting each others backs with stars as you slip into your depression on slides of illusion and misleading darkened views of world situations.

I will now leave with this quote. (admins, if you censor this post please at least leave this quote).



"I like to pay taxes. With them I buy civilization." -Oliver Wendell Holmes



posted on Aug, 26 2010 @ 02:57 AM
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reply to post by Unst0ppable0ne
 





..and here you reveal your ignorance of reading comprehension. I already know police are paid for by property and sales taxes.


An "ignorance of reading comprehension"? Here is precisely what you said:




My point is... if you want to live in an area protected by police that are payed for by taxes, you should help pay for said protection.


In order to have the "reading comprehension" you seemingly demand, I would not only have to read between the lines, I would have to presume you meant that which you failed to state. As far as reading between the lines go, given that you assert that any person, or more specifically "you" should help pay for said protection, granting a presumption that you understood that it is primarily property taxes and sales taxes that pay for police protection is granting you far more than you have earned.




That is a PATHETIC straw man argument. We are not talking about children. Obviously children are in no position to pay taxes.


It is also obvious that children have a reasonable expectation of police protection, and therefore it is not a straw man argument, in spite of your histrionic claims that it is PATHETIC.




What the heck is your problem? Why would you even mention children paying taxes if you are not purposely grasping at straws to make an argument?


I am responding directly to your assertion that people who receive police protection should help pay for that service.




Keyword "ARGUABLY" not paying sale tax. You destroy your own argument before you even start.


I do not destroy my own argument, I instead, in direct contrast to the assertions of generalizations you make, allow for the fact that a homeless person will wind up paying some amount of sales tax. However, there are indeed many homeless people who are making purchases with money they have received from welfare, which can hardly be construed as them paying a sales tax, even if a sales tax is charged on the items purchased. In the State of California there is no sales tax on food, so any sales tax a homeless person is paying would have to be for non food products.

There are certain homeless people who will spend the money they earned, (from whatever source derived), on alcohol, and when they do they are paying a sales tax, no doubt. However, since they are homeless, they have no private place in which to drink this alcohol, and whatever service you imagine they are paying for police protection, their taxes collected by the purchasing alcohol only contributed to their inevitable harassment by police for drinking in public.

Declaring an argument destroyed does not make it so. You have to effectively show how such an argument is destroyed, if you expect to be taken seriously.




I didn't say anything about clothes on infants backs! Your property yes. Clothes of of infants backs... no...


Here you go with the generalizations again, and foolishly you keep insisting on framing taxation in terms of "your". You have to necessarily assume I am liable for any property taxes in order to make such an assertion, and of course, you have no legal authority to make such an assessment. My tax liability is my business and none of yours.




I didn't say anything about any of that... you are just making this crap up! What a pathetic tactic!


I am not making anything up, and instead am pointing to very real people who rely upon government but do not pay taxes. If you can not learn to say what you mean, you shouldn't be surprised that people don't understand what it is you mean to say. Any problem in understanding your position is due to your lack of stating precisely what it is you mean to say. Why should anyone believe you mean what you say when you can't even say what you mean?




Make them get a job!


Make the homeless get a job? Are you demanding servitude to the government so they may pay taxes? Do you have any idea what the 13th Amendment states?




Your post is completely pathetic!


Uh-huh. At least you weren't so histrionic this time and didn't bother to capitalize each letter in the word pathetic. Even so, declaring something pathetic doesn't make it so.




If people can't pay their taxes there is such thing as payment plans! It's like a loan! You can pay off your debt in small payment without anything being taken away. Your complete ignorance of such a concept is outragous!


Unless you are the Treasurer with the legal authority to assess another persons tax liability, (and it is fairly presumed you are not), the only legal authority you have to assess tax liability is in regards to your own liability. That is the law. Why don't you worry about your own liabilities and mind your own business in regards to other people?




YOU FAIL


What have I failed at, graduating from the petty tyrants school of sophistry?



posted on Aug, 26 2010 @ 05:16 AM
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reply to post by Jean Paul Zodeaux
 


Actually, Ust0ppable0ne is right, you most definitely are grasping at straws.

The parents are responsible for their children until they are old enough to work and pay taxes. This includes paying taxes for police and fire services, schools, roads, public transportation, and so forth. If the parents don't pay taxes that is when they should be issued civil warrants.

Homeless people are freeloaders. They should be taxed, but there is no point, they don't have any income or a residence. They are actually a debt to society and are leeching off of tax payers when they use services like the police department.

So your argument is really pathetic.

Also, calling someone a tyrant because they feel that freeloaders should be forced to pay for that which they stole from tax payers is also pathetic.


[edit on 26-8-2010 by IsALL]



posted on Aug, 26 2010 @ 05:20 AM
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To no-one in particular:

Please stay on topic and refrain from casting aspersions upon the character of your fellow members.




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