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7000 Citizens Violently Threatened By The State Of Indiana

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posted on Aug, 25 2010 @ 10:38 PM
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reply to post by mnemeth1
 


In new Glorious Soviet America, Stockholm Syndrome has you.





posted on Aug, 25 2010 @ 10:42 PM
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Originally posted by bad man incorporated

Originally posted by Exuberant1

Originally posted by bad man incorporated
reply to post by Lightrule
 



My stuff, I strictly deserved. Including the tazing.


Son,

You did not deserve to be tortured. No one deserves torture. Do not engage in rationalization.

The men who tortured you committed a Crime against all Humanity when they tortured you. Please don't rationalize it.


Hey,
Do not call me "son" or put words in my posts.I take full responsibility for my actions as a grown man.(mid 30s) If had my way that day, that officers family would have been in mourning.My life choices that day were stupid.Laws were admittedly broke and I willingly forced this officer to the furthest limits.I could have been shot.Glad he had the brains to tazer me instead.And he was forgiving in his testimony.Sparring me some serious stuff.

Some of you people are like cartoon characters.

Also, someone mentioned welfare being the cause of most of the smaller crimes. No way, man. Drugs. Plain and simple.Addicts are behind a HUGE portion of crimes.But I bet you could twist your gov't into drug dealers as well.Even tho they police the hell outta users.This is a lose loser thread it seems.

I will say this, tho.Tax evasion isn't worth getting tazered for.


Exuberant1 is correct. You still didn't deserve the torture, you sound like you have grown up and matured quite a bit since those trying times you have described, if you honestly feel like you should have been punished then who are we to argue? I just hope that you took your licks for committing an actual crime and not something you were only told is a crime.

That being said its people like you that make me fight harder for my beliefs, you are the proof people need to see that people ARE capable of making positive changes for themselves. Even if they have made mistakes. Thank you.

-Lightrule



posted on Aug, 25 2010 @ 10:44 PM
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Originally posted by bad man incorporatedAlso, someone mentioned welfare being the cause of most of the smaller crimes. No way, man. Drugs. Plain and simple.Addicts are behind a HUGE portion of crimes.But I bet you could twist your gov't into drug dealers as well.Even tho they police the hell outta users.This is a lose loser thread it seems.

I will say this, tho.Tax evasion isn't worth getting tazered for.


I believe the desire for drug money due to drug prohibition artificially inflating the cost is behind a huge portion of crimes. Not the mention the desire to control the government-caused black markets.

I was actually going to mention that tazers are perfect to use as an alternative to firearms and who you responded to should not assume it would have been inappropriate use of force without knowing the situation.

But yes tax evasion is worth getting tazered for depending on the circumstances. By not sending the US federal government money you are saving lives because the sooner the US goes bankrupt the sooner it will have to stop killing people overseas. I don't have a problem getting tazed if its going to save lives.

And yes there will be chaos sooner rather than later by "starving the beast" but it will have to happen eventually since the "laws" of mathematics make it impossible for the US government not to financially collapse.



posted on Aug, 25 2010 @ 10:53 PM
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reply to post by Lightrule
 

The OP's claims are not false they are 100% correct.


They are 100% false, and you both know it.

Show me anywhere in the statutes that permits the "violent" (or any other) arrest of a taxpayer under a tax warrant.

I've asked the OP to do so, and he can't. Because it is false.

You can not, either.


And if I did live in Indiana you can rest assured I wouldn't have bowed down to these warrants for anything. I would be standing tall and proud telling them to prove their claim over my property. As they do not have one they would be in a whole world of trouble when it came time to collect. I guess that is one major difference between me and you, I know how to defend myself against stuff like this and you have no idea how to, so you cower down and pay your fee so you don't have to be scared or live in fear that the big bad sheriff is gonna come and take you, your property, etc.


I am neither bitter nor confused. A little projection here, no?

As a matter of fact, I represent several Indiana counties and subdivisions in the collection of taxes. We execute on judgments EVERY DAY. When the sheriff posts the "notice of auction" you can not stop it without paying what you have been adjudged by a court to owe. You are not even in the equation.

When the writ of levy hits your bank or account-holder or fiduciary, they have 2 choices: turn over YOUR account, or pay their own money. Again, you are NOT involved - it's between the treasurer, me and the bank.

Your posturing is laughable. Please, prove your resolve and notify your tax assessor's office today that you will no longer be paying the tax on your income, purchases, auto, or on your other taxable property anymore; then "defend yourself" against collection.

I care not whether you "can walk away without paying a dime" (unless you live in Indiana and want to see what I can do).

This thread was premised on "threats of violence" and "arrests;" not the legitimacy of taxation: "7000 Citizens Violently Threatened By The State of Indiana."

That statement is blatantly false.

Prove otherwise.

jw



posted on Aug, 25 2010 @ 11:05 PM
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reply to post by jdub297
 





This thread was premised on "threats of violence" and "arrests;" not the legitimacy of taxation: "7000 Citizens Violently Threatened By The State of Indiana."


There is an irony to your assertion, in that you make this claim:




Your posturing is laughable. Please, prove your resolve and notify your tax assessor's office today that you will no longer be paying the tax on your income, purchases, auto, or on your other taxable property anymore; then "defend yourself" against collection.


As far as legitimate taxes go, income is not the subject of any legitimate tax. People do not pay taxes on their income, and if you as a tax collector are acting in legitimate manner, are not collecting taxes on income as property, but are using income as a measurement to gauge how much is owed on specific taxed events.

There is no legitimate tax on income as property, at least not legislated by Congress. If there were a legitimate tax on property, it would be apportioned among the several states. This is the first clue that the so called "Personal Income Tax" is not a direct tax on property, nor is it a capitation tax, but is an indirect tax on some specific activity.



posted on Aug, 25 2010 @ 11:08 PM
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reply to post by jdub297
 


I just pointed out that this was not a tax lien warning, this was an arrest warrant.

They specifically say the people turned up to avoid arrest for not paying state taxes.

This is explicit in the article.

Now the article might be wrong, but my statements based on what is written in that article are not.

7000 people packed into a tiny civic building because they were afraid they were going to get arrested - period. This is EXPLICITLY what the article says.

"many of them showed up at the same time, eager to set up payments on overdue state taxes to avoid arrest."




[edit on 25-8-2010 by mnemeth1]



posted on Aug, 25 2010 @ 11:08 PM
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reply to post by jdub297
 





"I represent several Indiana counties and subdivisions in the collection of taxes."


Well, that about sums it up then, doesn't it? You're a tax collector, defending your odious profession.
I'm sure you are a very nice person, you know, when you aren't stealing from people on behalf of the State.
Do you find your work satisfying?

Somehow I doubt you will turn from the dark side.
Reasoning with you will be an exercise in futility. So I think I'll hit the ignore button and bypass any more diseased slavemaster rhetoric.



posted on Aug, 25 2010 @ 11:15 PM
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reply to post by Smack
 


He thinks this is some kind of property tax issue - oh no no no.

This is a state tax issue where the state directly loots your pocketbook.

Of course, property taxes are just as bad.

Instead of ending up broke and in jail, you end up broke and homeless.

The Sheriff will physically eject you from your property, and if you resist, you will be shot.


[edit on 25-8-2010 by mnemeth1]



posted on Aug, 25 2010 @ 11:22 PM
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reply to post by mnemeth1
 


I'm sure all of that sounds perfectly reasonable to a tax collector.
Obviously government is the fountainhead of all that is glorious and good in our society. We must bow down before it, worship it and sacrifice our labor, wealth and our very souls to its majesty.



posted on Aug, 25 2010 @ 11:25 PM
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Originally posted by mnemeth1
I just pointed out that this was not a tax lien warning, this was an arrest warrant.

They specifically say the people turned up to avoid arrest for not paying state taxes.

This is explicit in the article.

Now the article might be wrong, but my statements based on what is written in that article are not.


The people lined up to "avoid arrest" because they were just as confused as you are.

They probably didn't know the difference between a civil warrant and a criminal warrant.


These tax warrants are civil warrants, not criminal (arrest) warrants. The Indiana Department of Revenue, as always, welcomes and encourages WRTV to contact us and verify facts related to stories it airs to the public.

Civil warrants allow the county sheriff to garnish a taxpayer's wages, levy a taxpayer's bank account(s) and/or auction off personal property in an effort to collect on delinquent taxes.

The Indiana Department of Revenue issued more than 80,000 tax bills to individuals across the state in July, giving taxpayers notification and time under Indiana law to resolve their bills before they escalated to a warrant stage. Taxpayers could pay their bills in full, or use the Department's newly launched payment plan tool online to set up their own payment arrangements prior to the deadline date stated on their tax notificatons.

We issued a news release about this information in early July.

Stephanie McFarland, APR
Director of Public Relations
Indiana Department of Revenue



Go ahead and call Stephanie McFarland your self;

Stephanie McFarland, APR
317.234.3793 - office

OP, your topic is BUNK. The title is a complete fabrication as well.


[edit on 25-8-2010 by Unst0ppable0ne]



posted on Aug, 25 2010 @ 11:33 PM
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Originally posted by jdub297

As a matter of fact, I represent several Indiana counties and subdivisions in the collection of taxes. We execute on judgments EVERY DAY. When the sheriff posts the "notice of auction" you can not stop it without paying what you have been adjudged by a court to owe. You are not even in the equation.


Oops! there is your problem right there, you are assuming that I would even let it go so far as to let them get a judgment in the first place. I handle my affairs in a very direct and timely manner.

I realize your job requires you to pay into this farce. But please stop speaking as if there is no protection from you gangsters.

-Lightrule



posted on Aug, 25 2010 @ 11:41 PM
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reply to post by Unst0ppable0ne
 


You are the one making assumptions about the types of warrants issued.

I am basing my statements off of what was written in the article.

Clearly what I wrote is totally consistent with what the article says.

And besides, it doesn't matter if they were tax warrants for the garnishment of paychecks or not - its still LOOTING!

And what about that property theft you mention?

So if I don't pay my taxes, the State will come and seize my home or car?

Please explain how a property seizure works where the threat of violence is not involved.



posted on Aug, 25 2010 @ 11:45 PM
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reply to post by Lightrule
 


If you want to live in a country and reap the benefits of being a citizen in said country, you must pay for those benefits. If you don't pay, but continue to live as a citizen of said country, that country has a right to make you pay.

If you don't want to pay, then get the hell out of the country, and drop your citizenship. I suggest paying what you owe first before doing so.

It's that simple.



posted on Aug, 25 2010 @ 11:48 PM
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reply to post by Unst0ppable0ne
 


No.

Its not my duty to be robed at gun point so statists like yourself can leech off of my labor.




posted on Aug, 25 2010 @ 11:59 PM
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reply to post by Unst0ppable0ne
 





If you don't want to pay, then get the hell out of the country, and drop your citizenship. I suggest paying what you owe first before doing so.


It is always the same with you petty tyrants. You seem to think you are some sort of self appointed landlord to the nation, or state, and you get to decide who stays and who leaves. Taxes are not levied to collect a price of admission to the state or nation. Taxes are levied to keep the slow and cumbersome wheels of government moving.




If you want to live in a country and reap the benefits of being a citizen in said country, you must pay for those benefits. If you don't pay, but continue to live as a citizen of said country, that country has a right to make you pay.


In The United States of America, it is the people who hold the inherent political power and never at any point have they surrendered that political power in order to have a government. While I do not completely agree with the O.P., in that all taxes are theft, if those taxes being levied and/or collected are done so contrary to the principles of Constitutional taxation, then they most assuredly are theft.

There are basic fundamental rules to taxation, set forth by Constitution, that dictate how Congress, or even state legislatures can levy taxes, and how they can be collected. Further, tax liability is assessed by the Treasurer, and/or the person who owes the tax, and only that official position, and/or the person who owes the tax, (or doesn't owe the tax), has the legal authority to assess tax liability. It is arrogant and ignorant for people not holding that position to presume the tax liability of other people.



posted on Aug, 26 2010 @ 12:02 AM
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reply to post by mnemeth1
 


Haven't you seen brother? When you ask the tough questions you are told to just shut up and pay... or else. Or you are called clueless and still told to shut up and pay... or else.

The problem these people seem to be having here is understanding that violence doesn't only mean to cut off someone head or to beat them to a pulp, they don't see how there are varying degrees. Also, you can't really argue with the people who work for the government because everything they have is at the mercy of the government. We are smart enough to know this, they are not.

Smack was 100% right in telling people to get out of our way and that we will handle the heavy lifting, they can't even stand to the thought of us working together without them and their bully tactics.

Look back towards the start of the thread, Demoncreeper would rather ignore me and call me clueless than face up to his own slave master's legal definitions. that is how scared these people are of the government, can you really blame them tho, these are the people that are on the front lines, they know full well just how ruthless and brutal the government can be when it doesn't get what the THINK is owed to them.

Then we have other puppet masters come in here and tell us we are the government and we are the ones that have asked for these insane laws in order to keep us safe. Well if I am the government, here is what I have to say.

Brothers and Sisters of the Commonwealth, gather 'round, hear me!

Today it is my proud and honorable duty as a holder of the office of 'We the People' the supreme authority to the governments of all the common wealth nations to announce to you all that from this day forth and forever more the immediate and complete stoppage of all Federal Income Taxes.


Well that's done, anyone else wanna a beer? Canadian beer of course. Party out back my place. Celebrating the abolishment of income taxes! Yay!

-Lightrule



posted on Aug, 26 2010 @ 12:05 AM
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Originally posted by mnemeth1
You are the one making assumptions about the types of warrants issued.


Please show me were I made any assumptiosn about the warrants issued. I recall only talking about what an arrest warrant was. I never made any assumptions.

YOU are the one who made assumptions based off of incorrect research and b.s.


Originally posted by mnemeth1
I am basing my statements off of what was written in the article.


Well you should have done your research before you made a b.s. topic with a misleading inaccurate title.

They issued civil warrants, and I just confirmed that with a quote from Stephanie McFarland from the Indiana Department of Revenue.


Originally posted by mnemeth1
Clearly what I wrote is totally consistent with what the article says.


Clearly what you wrote was the result of ignorance and lack of research.


Originally posted by mnemeth1
And besides, it doesn't matter if they were tax warrants for the garnishment of paychecks or not - its still LOOTING!


How is it looting? The citizens are reaping the benefits of being a citizen without paying for said benefits. It's much like repo men coming for your car when you stop making payments for it. If you can't pay, you can't keep it.


Originally posted by mnemeth1
And what about that property theft you mention?


Property theft? That I mentioned? I think once again you are confused. I didn't mention property theft.


Originally posted by mnemeth1
So if I don't pay my taxes, the State will come and seize my home or car?


If you don't pay taxes, that means you owe money. If you don't have the money, they will sell your stuff until your debt is payed off.

Even a child can understand this.

You owe money because you used public services. You can't use public services and not pay. In other words, you can't be a free loader.


Originally posted by mnemeth1
Please explain how a property seizure works where the threat of violence is not involved.


Ok, if you are a rational, reasonable, logical thinking human being (lol yeah right), you would just let them seize your property because you know you owe money. You would know the equity of your property is the only way to pay your debt. There would be no violence involved if you were a rational person.

However, since you are none of the above, you would probably fight your way out of it, and probably end up getting shot. People like you are a dime a dozen. You don't understand how the system works, or why, and you end up fighting for stupid reasons and getting killed for your own ignorance.

You don't seem to be rational or logical enough to understand that being a citizen costs money, and you have to pay for it. If you can't, then they will find a way to pay what you owe by selling your belongings.



posted on Aug, 26 2010 @ 12:06 AM
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Originally posted by Unst0ppable0ne
reply to post by Lightrule
 


If you want to live in a country and reap the benefits of being a citizen in said country, you must pay for those benefits. If you don't pay, but continue to live as a citizen of said country, that country has a right to make you pay.

If you don't want to pay, then get the hell out of the country, and drop your citizenship. I suggest paying what you owe first before doing so.

It's that simple.


What the deuce? Where did you get the crazy notion that I am a 2nd class person known as a "citizen"?

There is a hierarchy you know... It goes like this;

We the People => Government => Citizens

I know where I belong... It is clear to me you know where you belong, the only thing I have left to say to you is...

Learn your place, slave.

-Lightrule



posted on Aug, 26 2010 @ 12:10 AM
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reply to post by Unst0ppable0ne
 





How is it looting? The citizens are reaping the benefits of being a citizen without paying for said benefits. It's much like repo men coming for your car when you stop making payments for it. If you can't pay, you can't keep it.


Of all the ignorant assumptions you make, (and there are many), this quote above underscores your profound ignorance regarding taxation. Citizenship is not the basis by which tax liability is gauged. There are plenty of people who are not citizens who owe and pay taxes. If a tax is owed, then yes, it should be paid...if a tax is owed. Whether that tax is owed, is between the tax collectors and the person they are claiming is liable for a tax. If the person they are claiming is liable for a tax, disputes that claim, that person has as much right to a redress of grievances as any other person does. This is the rule of law.



posted on Aug, 26 2010 @ 12:17 AM
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reply to post by Jean Paul Zodeaux
 


I think there was also irony in:


This thread was premised on "threats of violence" and "arrests;" not the legitimacy of taxation: "7000 Citizens Violently Threatened By The State of Indiana."


vs.


I care not whether you "can walk away without paying a dime" (unless you live in Indiana and want to see what I can do).


Perhaps jdub is merely referring to the fact that what he can do is send people in Indiana a stern letter, but it sure doesn't sound like it.




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