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7000 Citizens Violently Threatened By The State Of Indiana

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posted on Aug, 25 2010 @ 07:23 PM
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reply to post by Unst0ppable0ne
 


Everyone commits a crime because the State has made everything a crime.

You can be charged with a crime for walking across the street outside of a crosswalk.

I break the law every day I drive to work, I go 5 over the limit.

So yeah, but I didn't say everyone didn't commit crime, I said 99.9% of people are not murders, rapists, arsonists, or violent looters.




posted on Aug, 25 2010 @ 07:34 PM
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Originally posted by jdub297
reply to post by mnemeth1
 


The State of Indiana took the unusual step of issuing 7,000 violent threats of arrest against its citizens in a single day for failing to pay their taxes (protection money).

[emphasis added]

Absolutely false!

*snip*

There are different kinds of "Warrant" issued by government and businesses.

Not all warrants are "arrest" warrants.

A Tax Warrant authorizes the sheriff to seize PROPERTY to satisfy a tax lien, nothing more. With a warrant, the Sheriff can garnish bank accounts and wages; conduct auctions of real and personal property. He CANNOT take anyone into custody!

It is a "civil" matter, not criminal.

*snip*


So it is an arrest of property instead of person, how exactly is this different? its the same threat with a different object being threatened. its still pay up or else...

-Lightrule



posted on Aug, 25 2010 @ 07:36 PM
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Originally posted by mnemeth1
reply to post by jdub297
 



Warrants were issued for 7,000 taxpayers, and many of them showed up at the same time, eager to set up payments on overdue state taxes to avoid arrest.


This isn't about property taxes.
Not that it matters.

Either way, violence or the threat of violence is used.


Rubbish!

Of course, you ignore the difference between stock warrants, tax warrants, arrest warrants and warrants for payment.

It doesn't matter whether the taxes are sales, excise, income or property; there is NO ARREST WARRANT!

A "tax warrant" is nothing more than a lien; prove otherwise. You cannot.
You are either intentionally misrepresenting the facts or you are indifferent to facts.

No one is getting arrested for tax bills.

Show me the "threat of violence."

You cannot and you know it. This is a blatant LIE!

Read the Statutes. Quote for me where they authorize an arrest. You cannot because they do not.

This thread is complete rubbish, and you should know better, with your access to "journals, books, lectures and periodicals."

Have you never read any of them? Had a grown-up explain them to you?
deny ignorance.

jw


[edit on 25-8-2010 by jdub297]



posted on Aug, 25 2010 @ 07:42 PM
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Originally posted by mnemeth1
Everyone commits a crime because the State has made everything a crime.


Your problem is, you think the "State" is some big bad monster.

The "State" is you, me, everyone. WE made the laws and passed them. Most of them have very good original purposes, which then later get used for other things, which is a problem, which can be solved.


Originally posted by mnemeth1
You can be charged with a crime for walking across the street outside of a crosswalk.


You know why? Because men and women and children have been killed for doing so. They leap out in traffic and get hit and killed. Some of them leap out in traffic and cause vehicles to swirve off the road and plow into groups of people and kill them. Many lives have been lost because of a simple "jay-walker". Many people who lost their loved ones because someone was too lazy to walk a few extra feet to a cross walk have decided to make it a law so when people do it, they get punished for it and learn their lesson.

The law was made to help save lives, and I bet you look at it as a stupid law designed only to control people. You completely ignore the purpose and the history of the law and only focus on the outcome of it. You do that for ALL laws and police officers in general.

You are ignoreing the history, and the context of all that is. There is a reason we have police officers, and laws, and taxes, but you are ignoring all of the history and purpose.



Originally posted by mnemeth1
I break the law every day I drive to work, I go 5 over the limit.


My point exactly... proven.

Speed limits are there to protect people. You know how many people were killed because of speeders? LOTS.

You are risking lives when you break those laws. You have no care of the safety of others around you so you break the speed limit. You getting to your destination is way more important than making sure little 2 year old jessica makes it home safe with her mommy. It's sickening.


Originally posted by mnemeth1
So yeah, but I didn't say everyone didn't commit crime, I said 99.9% of people are not murders, rapists, arsonists, or violent looters.


I didn't say everyone was a murder, rapist, arsonist, or looter.

Sometimes it's the crimes that you think are "small" that do the most damage. Like jay-walking, and speeding. Speeding probably takes more lives than murderers do each year. I bet jay-walking causes more accidents and death than arsonists, rapists, and looters.

You have ZERO grip on reality....



posted on Aug, 25 2010 @ 07:46 PM
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off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


 



posted on Aug, 25 2010 @ 07:52 PM
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reply to post by Lightrule
 

So it is an arrest of property instead of person, how exactly is this different? its the same threat with a different object being threatened. its still pay up or else...


What? Finish your ill-conceived comparison.

If you do not pay, your account gets seized; if you do not pay, your property gets sold or the proceeds of your own sale are turned over to the creditor.

This is the same with ANY lien. Don't pay the electrician or the plumber?
THEY can put a lien on your property. Don't pay your dentist or your child support? They can get a lien on your property.

Why should people incur a debt, own property or funds sufficient to pay it, and NOT be responsible to do so?

The OP is telling an outright lie when he asserts there is "a threat of violence" or an arrest for past-due taxes that could've been challenged, paid in installments or negotiated down.

Tax warrants issue when people ignore their obligations, and usually not for several years after the fact.

In Indiana, taxes are assessed in March, statements are sent later in the year, to be paid the FOLLOWING year. If they remain unpaid, after ANOTHER year, then the taxing authority can "certify" the taxes to a court and get a judgment.

The taxpayer can appeal at multiple levels, from the beginning to the end.

If the taxpayer ultimately loses, after 3 years, THEN a "tax warrant" can be issued to the County clerk for property in that County.

What's so hard to understand about this?

Deny ignorance.

jw



posted on Aug, 25 2010 @ 07:58 PM
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off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


 



posted on Aug, 25 2010 @ 07:59 PM
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Originally posted by jdub297
reply to post by Lightrule
 

So it is an arrest of property instead of person, how exactly is this different? its the same threat with a different object being threatened. its still pay up or else...


What? Finish your ill-conceived comparison.

If you do not pay, your account gets seized; if you do not pay, your property gets sold or the proceeds of your own sale are turned over to the creditor.

This is the same with ANY lien. Don't pay the electrician or the plumber?
THEY can put a lien on your property. Don't pay your dentist or your child support? They can get a lien on your property.

*snip*


Ok first lets be clear. We are now talking Income Taxes only. As that is what these warrants are for. Now let me ask you this...

What service has the government provided me to become creditor to my hard labor? What have I taken in exchange to move my muscles in such a way that someone has deemed fit to provide me money?

-Lightrule



posted on Aug, 25 2010 @ 08:06 PM
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Originally posted by Lightrule
What service has the government provided me to become creditor to my hard labor?


A part of income taxes pay for the military. If it wasn't for the military protecting you, you wouldn't have a place to do your hard labor.



posted on Aug, 25 2010 @ 08:16 PM
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Well just got done reading the entire thread.

Have to say, some folks are getting perturbed.


What are you folks going to do when your property is going to be seized for the good of the collective?

The last time the US was in this predicament they seized the gold of individuals.

Now, not many of us are invested in that, we have homes, land, IRA's and other forms of assets.

Tell me folks, do YOU actually believe what you watch on the MSM shows on CNBC? Do you really believe that we are on the road to recovery?

How can we recover when the Government debt is at the same level as the end of WWII?

Do you ACTUALLY believe this monstrosity can be saved?

There is some nice sand in the Gulf region for your head if you STILL believe the lies being spewed on your propaganda box.

New housing sales lowest in 15 years, they did not mention that there is an UNPRECEDENTED amount of EMPTY homes. Old home sales are down to their lowest in over 25 years.

The stock market is on it's way down. It can no longer be maintained by the manipulations of the likes of Goldman Sachs and the other go betweens of the government.

The government has been monetizing the debt.

DO YOU EVEN understand what that means?

They cannot GIVE AWAY the money now. Pretty soon they will have to PAY banks to take the US Dollar.

WAIT, they are doing JUST THAT.



The fed gives the banks the loan at 0%. The banks then purchase the treasurey debts at a certain rate.

TELL me, what is that? That is monetizing the debt. PERIOD.

Folks, you better begin to understand there is one of two ways this is going to end.

With FORCE, or FREEDOM.

Better begin to understand what cognitive dissonance is.

As for the OP, ANY taxation that is NOT voluntary, such as a sales tax, is THEFT and SLAVERY. Period.

Instead of the state owning us outright, they own a percentage of us.

Sorry, hate being a 50-75% effective slave.



posted on Aug, 25 2010 @ 08:17 PM
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reply to post by Lightrule
 

Ok first lets be clear. We are now talking Income Taxes only. As that is what these warrants are for. Now let me ask you this...

What service has the government provided me to become creditor to my hard labor? What have I taken in exchange to move my muscles in such a way that someone has deemed fit to provide me money?


Let's please DO be clear here: Who cares?

This thread is about the OP's false claims and assertions of "threats of violence" and "arrest" of delinquent taxpayers, not whether you get a 'good deal' for paying them.

I'll let you and mnemeth discuss whether you should pay any at all. Just know that if you decide not to, or cannot, pay them to Indiana, a "tax warrant" will not result in your arrest. They may sell your stuff, but you aren't going to sit in jail for life. Pure irresponsible rubbish.

deny ignorance

jw



posted on Aug, 25 2010 @ 08:44 PM
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reply to post by Demoncreeper
 





Pay your damn taxes


By what legal authority do you presume in order to assess any other persons tax liability outside of your own?

Tax liabilities are between tax collectors and those who are liable.

Mind your own business!



posted on Aug, 25 2010 @ 08:47 PM
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Such passion. So much vitriol and frothing at the mouth. You'd think these people don't have an argument. This is the behavior of people jealous of their servitude.

Taxation is theft.



Can I steal from you?
Can I stand at your door and demand your cash?
If you refuse, can I threaten violence, seize your property, or imprison you?
No?
Then why is it ok for Government to do this?

Government has nothing, so it must take it from somewhere. When it takes my property (including the fruits of my labor) it is stealing from me.
Now, you'll argue that it for the greater good, or some such pile of feces.
Or "how will we pay for X dept or service?" or "we all have to pay our share" nonsense.

The simple fact is that you don't know anything. You think you do, but you don't.
If you think all the money you pay in taxes is well spent, and that you are represented fairly in its distribution, then I'd like you to answer a question:
is it ok if Goldman Sachs has some?
Is it ok if Foreign banks and governments get a share too? How about some of our excentric friends? Musharraf? Muammar al-Gaddafi? Muqtada al-Sadr? Osama bin Laden? Abdullah of Saudi Arabia? and Israel too!
We must endeavor to be fair and fund both sides of every conflict.

Is it ok if the Military spends a trillion a year so we can occupy foreign nations, steal their resources and kill their citizens?
Halliburton , Blackwater, CACI, Bechtel, Chevron, ExxonMobil and the Petro-imperialists would also like a share of your money. Is that ok with you?

Joe Schmoe would like to thank your for your contribution:



"I got injured at my government job, it's really just a twinge, but I'm milking it for all it's worth. I got a nice disability settlement and now I'm set for life. I just want to thank you."


CPS called:


Child protection services would like to inspect your home. A report by a neighbor raised some red flags here (trash on your front lawn) and we need to make sure your children are safe. We'll be by at noon with the sheriff. Thank you for your tax contribution!



Out of work Man says:


Can I have a couple of hundred dollars? I lost my job and I can't support my family. My unemployment checks will run out after 99 weeks, and I just can't face going back into the labor market. Thank you for your kind donation.


[edit on 25-8-2010 by Smack]



posted on Aug, 25 2010 @ 08:48 PM
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Originally posted by jdub297
reply to post by Lightrule
 

Ok first lets be clear. We are now talking Income Taxes only. As that is what these warrants are for. Now let me ask you this...

What service has the government provided me to become creditor to my hard labor? What have I taken in exchange to move my muscles in such a way that someone has deemed fit to provide me money?


Let's please DO be clear here: Who cares?

This thread is about the OP's false claims and assertions of "threats of violence" and "arrest" of delinquent taxpayers, not whether you get a 'good deal' for paying them.

I'll let you and mnemeth discuss whether you should pay any at all. Just know that if you decide not to, or cannot, pay them to Indiana, a "tax warrant" will not result in your arrest. They may sell your stuff, but you aren't going to sit in jail for life. Pure irresponsible rubbish.

deny ignorance

jw



You can't even tell me ONE thing that makes them a creditor to my labor and you expect me to just say "Who cares?" Wow.

The OP's claims are not false they are 100% correct.

Someone a few posts back said the military is one thing I get for my income taxes... That's not true at all but lets pretend it is... Canada has never been attacked in my lifetime... All it is, is a "what if" scenario in this case... If we were attacked then I would consider supporting my military with my labor.

And if I did live in Indiana you can rest assured I wouldn't have bowed down to these warrants for anything. I would be standing tall and proud telling them to prove their claim over my property. As they do not have one they would be in a whole world of trouble when it came time to collect. I guess that is one major difference between me and you, I know how to defend myself against stuff like this and you have no idea how to, so you cower down and pay your fee so you don't have to be scared or live in fear that the big bad sheriff is gonna come and take you, your property, etc. All the while being bitter and pissed off that I can walk away without paying a dime.

-Lightrule



posted on Aug, 25 2010 @ 08:56 PM
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Let me say that nobody is forced in the united states to pay taxes. Every person has a choice on whether or not to pay his or her taxes.

If one chooses to not pay taxes, there are punishments by government if they are not paid.

If you choose to pay your taxes, punishments are usually dismissed.

We are a Free country here in the USA. We can choose to take our punishment, or reject it.



posted on Aug, 25 2010 @ 09:01 PM
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reply to post by wiredamerican
 


That has to be one of the most incredibly ignorant statements I've ever read.

How are you "free" in any sense of the word, if you are coerced to pay?
That is like me holding a loaded gun to your face and saying, "you are free to refuse this robbery, but there will be consequences."
Absolute rubbish!



posted on Aug, 25 2010 @ 09:18 PM
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Originally posted by bad man incorporated
reply to post by Lightrule
 



My stuff, I strictly deserved. Including the tazing.


Son,

You did not deserve to be tortured. No one deserves torture. Do not engage in rationalization.

The men who tortured you committed a Crime against all Humanity when they tortured you. Please don't rationalize it.



posted on Aug, 25 2010 @ 10:19 PM
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Originally posted by Exuberant1

Originally posted by bad man incorporated
reply to post by Lightrule
 



My stuff, I strictly deserved. Including the tazing.


Son,

You did not deserve to be tortured. No one deserves torture. Do not engage in rationalization.

The men who tortured you committed a Crime against all Humanity when they tortured you. Please don't rationalize it.


Hey,
Do not call me "son" or put words in my posts.I take full responsibility for my actions as a grown man.(mid 30s) If had my way that day, that officers family would have been in mourning.My life choices that day were stupid.Laws were admittedly broke and I willingly forced this officer to the furthest limits.I could have been shot.Glad he had the brains to tazer me instead.And he was forgiving in his testimony.Sparring me some serious stuff.

Some of you people are like cartoon characters.

Also, someone mentioned welfare being the cause of most of the smaller crimes. No way, man. Drugs. Plain and simple.Addicts are behind a HUGE portion of crimes.But I bet you could twist your gov't into drug dealers as well.Even tho they police the hell outta users.This is a lose loser thread it seems.

I will say this, tho.Tax evasion isn't worth getting tazered for.



posted on Aug, 25 2010 @ 10:29 PM
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Originally posted by Demoncreeper

Originally posted by truthquest

I'd encourage people not to pay US Federal taxes. It is worse than wasting money. They use it to KILL people and make pointless wars. If you object to pointless wars and death, don't pay your taxes. I'm such an advocate of this that if they were to tax my income I'd simply make less money on purpose just so they couldn't have any of it.

And even at the local level a lot of the time money is use to kidnap and cage people for victimless crimes, so consider not paying that either depending on what your government is up to.

Either taxes is voluntary, or it is theft and therefore not really taxes but rather extortion. The law must act within the letter of their own law or they are not the law at all but a band of mafia thugs in a state of "anarchy" (chaos).


Proof please. I can't wait.

And also, I'm Canadian. My government uses my tax money WAY more responsibly. Bwahaha.

Again:

" The Criminal Code protects the liberty of suspects. For all but the most serious offences, the law discourages you from arresting offenders. If you do arrest, the law encourages you release suspects with the least restrictions necessary."

See above.


Your taxes not only fund the black ops, but the white ops. Like building schools, funding hospitals, fixing roads, keeping your street lights on so the boogey men don't get you and you don't have to call the tax paid "thug" rule enforcers to protect you.

Have your opinion. It can't be wrong if you believe it.




I simply don't get your post. What is it you want evidence of? And what opinions did I list that you disagree with? That the police shouldn't have to follow their own laws? That is the only opinion I actually mentioned.

I did realize you are Canadian and if I lived there I wouldn't bother reducing my income on purpose just so that the government wouldn't get any of my money. Taxes in Canada simply wouldn't bother me as much because you have something closer to a real government there as opposed to an obvious criminal fascist mafia we have in the form of the US Federal government.

As for modern taxation being theft, that is not an opinion. That is simply the dictionary. Stealing is taking without asking. Modern taxation is taking without asking. If you consider the dictionary to be incorrect this can be proven or disproved using survey's, since words mean what people use them to mean. If people use stealing to mean "taking without asking" or "taking without permission" then yes modern taxation is theft. Not to say they couldn't develop consensual taxation methods.

Here in the US we have a system by which cops believe they can make up whatever laws they want on the fly and if you don't obey them you can be arrested for "failure to obey". Judges can do the same thing but call it "contempt of court" (as if they didn't have to earn respect like the rest of us) and have you arrested and imprisoned indefinitely without trial. If that isn't total chaos I don't know what is.

[edit on 25-8-2010 by truthquest]



posted on Aug, 25 2010 @ 10:34 PM
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reply to post by truthquest
 


LOL I love your hoop jumping cognitive dissonance riddled logic.


As for modern taxation being theft, that is not an opinion. That is simply the dictionary. Stealing is taking without asking. Modern taxation is taking without asking. If you consider the dictionary to be incorrect this can be proven or disproved using survey's, since words mean what people use them to mean. If people use stealing to mean "taking without asking" or "taking without permission" then yes modern taxation is theft. Not to say they couldn't develop consensual taxation methods.



Taxation isn't an option, yet it's not theft, yet it's not taking without asking, yet it is taking without asking, but we might not have to take without asking.

hahahahahaha

come on man.

It's theft, plain and simple.

Stop lying to yourself.


[edit on 25-8-2010 by mnemeth1]



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