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One of the silliest questions in the world - Are we alone in the universe?

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posted on Aug, 24 2010 @ 06:59 PM
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Originally posted by Blue Shift

Originally posted by Matrix Rising
But where is there a shred of evidence that this is the case.


I can't prove a negative. Nobody can. I can't prove that other life forms don't exist elsewhere in the universe.

Just show me proof that they do. That's positive proof, which is something that can be shown, if it exists. That's all I'm asking. Don't make me have to believe.


Matrix-

To follow up on what Blue Shift is saying, it would be like proving that unicorns do not exist.

...Please provide me with proof that unicorns do not exist someplace on Earth -- perhaps in one single field on one single island that is uninhabited by people. Prove that this field does not exist.



[edit on 8/24/2010 by Soylent Green Is People]




posted on Aug, 24 2010 @ 07:01 PM
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I don't think it is a silly question, as far as I am concerned there is no such thing as a silly question. However I do believe that we are not alone, that is not to say we are not unique, because we are.



No matter what is waiting for us out there we must always remember; the Earth is what we all have in common.



posted on Aug, 24 2010 @ 07:08 PM
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reply to post by Soylent Green Is People
 


The movie "Contact" (1997)


Ellie Arroway: [to a group of children] I'll tell you one thing about the universe, though. The universe is a pretty big place. It's bigger than anything anyone has ever dreamed of before. So if it's just us... seems like an awful waste of space.


www.imdb.com...




posted on Aug, 24 2010 @ 07:15 PM
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reply to post by SonoftheSun
 



As I said in my post before my last post (on the first page) -- I do in fact believe life exists elsewhere in the universe. However, my belief is only a belief, and ET life in the universe is not an absolute given.

I think it's "close" to an absolute given, but until we actually meet ET, we can't be 100% sure. We can't say "based on the size of the universe, life elsewhere is a FACT."

and note to others -- this is not an invitation to argue whether or not we have already met ETs...That's for another thread



posted on Aug, 24 2010 @ 07:19 PM
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I truly doubt any human being thinks we are alone in this universe. We are just one species living among hundreds of thousands of species just on planet Earth. Species that can live in the coldest places, darkest places, and places with no air. It should be obvious that this universe isn't just catering to us. The real question is intelligent alien life, which I also believe is out there.



posted on Aug, 24 2010 @ 07:32 PM
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reply to post by Soylent Green Is People
 


Oh I'm sorry Soylent Green ! My reply was at the OP but somehow I goofed and it ended up as a reply to you...


My bad. The quote was the answer to the OP's question...

Sorry about that !



posted on Aug, 24 2010 @ 07:54 PM
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reply to post by SonoftheSun
 

no worries!


-----------

...and I suppose I need a second line:
Back to the OP -- High probabilities are still only probabilities, no matter how high. That probability only becomes an absolute fact when we find that intelligent ET life.

Sure -- it may be valid to say that other life probably exists in the universe, but it isn't yet valid to say that life definitely DOES exist elsewhere.



[edit on 8/25/2010 by Soylent Green Is People]



posted on Aug, 24 2010 @ 09:00 PM
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Not sure how to upload a youtube video.. but!

www.youtube.com...


If he says there is - there must be!



[edit on 24-8-2010 by princesspeach]



posted on Aug, 24 2010 @ 09:08 PM
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reply to post by Matrix Rising
 




Good argument, and I agree, there must be life on other worlds.

However, I dont really know what that means to us. It doesnt matter if there are 6 Billion other people on Earth if I am stranded alone on a tiny island with no way to communicate with them or reach them. I am still alone.

Which is kind of the position we are in. The universe could be teeming with life, but what does that mean to us?

Jared Diamond in "The Third Chimpanzee" makes a fine argument that what we call "intelligent life" is probably, very, very, rare. Most creatures dont need to go to the extremes humans did to survive. And he also points out that our "intelligence" is questionable, considering what we are doing to ourselves and our habitat. Intelligent life arising would be, he argues, very rare, and having it not drive itself extinct would be even more rare.

Which makes it much more likely that any aliens who might make it to Earth would be like any humans would might make it to some alien world. Raiders who have devastated their home world, hungry and desperate for a new world and more resources. Not the kind of neighbors we really want to come calling.



posted on Aug, 24 2010 @ 09:14 PM
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I'm failing to understand why the question is silly ?

We are alone in the universe until we discover otherwise.
Statistical probabilities are not enough, at least for me. I believe it is highly unlikely that this little damp rock we call home is the only place that life exists, but until we know for sure....

The question is far from silly.



posted on Aug, 25 2010 @ 12:28 AM
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reply to post by Blue Shift
 


Again this doesn't make any sense.

I'm not asking you to prove a negative, I'm asking you to prove your claim the earth is unique. You made the claim and you should be able to support what you're saying.

The fact is there billions of galaxies and billions of planets and all that's needed to support life is a place to dump entropy.

So again I ask, why is earth the only planet in a universe with billions of planets that will allow organisms to dump entropy and build an atmosphere?

We know that life finds a way through extremophiles. We have found methane based lifeforms and lifeforms that survive without oxygen or sunlight.

They have found exoplanets.

The building blocks of life have been found on comets.

Every time you look up they are finding planets with water and planets with the right conditions for life.

So the question are we alone in the universe in 2010 is a silly one. Unless you have evidence that the entropy conditions of earth is "unique" then you're not making much sense.



posted on Aug, 25 2010 @ 12:46 AM
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Originally posted by Matrix Rising
The fact is there billions of galaxies and billions of planets and all that's needed to support life is a place to dump entropy.


There is order (loss of entropy) without the formation of life. Ice forms crystals, after all.

And if loss of entropy is "all that's needed" to support life, then simply show me where such a thing has led to the formation of life outside Earth.

Actually, forget it. The universe is literally crawling with life. You can't swing a dead cat without hitting some strange, ET life form. We just haven't found it yet. But it's out there. Tons of it in nearly infinite varieties. Somewhere. In all probability. We just don't have any positive proof of it. Yet. But I feel it and believe it with all my heart.

Happy now?



posted on Aug, 25 2010 @ 01:51 AM
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Probability says we are not the only intelligent life to have existed in the universe. But there are 2 massive issues here ...

1) Time.

We do not know the life span of advanced civilizations. It may be limited to 10k years and that may be a universal attribute as many other biological and physical "laws" are.

So it's not just a question of where but when other life exists.

2) Space.

Say you live in a rural area in the 1800s. No phone, car etc, and your nearest neighbor is 10 miles away. So, you're home alone ... for all practical purposes, you are alone.

In addition to these 2 things, there's the question of being able to communicate with or understand in any way imaginable, an intelligent lifeform from elsewhere. It could be akin to us trying to have a conversation with a aardvark.

I don't think we are being visited. I do think there is intelligent life out there. I don't know if we'll ever meet them. But just in case, we should always work to better our communication skills with each other. And with aardvarks of course.



posted on Aug, 25 2010 @ 04:36 AM
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reply to post by Blue Shift
 


hmmmmmmmmmm how about a brief trip down memory lane-proven fact-sumerian ancient civilisation-check that out just for starters!?!



posted on Aug, 25 2010 @ 05:22 AM
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reply to post by Matrix Rising
 





Let face it we have NO proof----right? Or please provide me with just one piece of scientific proof just one.





I hate when people put personal truth forward as fact. Personal truth is subjective. The facts are not.



posted on Aug, 25 2010 @ 06:03 AM
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reply to post by Matrix Rising
 


Im 100% on the fact that an intelligent race of beings exist somewhere in the universe. Just not sure they are visiting us yet.

If the UFOs that are seen around this planet are of ET construction then they are more likley to be probes/drones.

If an alien race was just a couple of hundred years more advanced than us then its likley that they could send probes but not actually visit in person.

But who knows...



posted on Aug, 25 2010 @ 07:36 AM
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Originally posted by Matrix Rising
We know that life finds a way through extremophiles.

True.



They have found exoplanets.

True.



The building blocks of life have been found on comets.

True.



Every time you look up they are finding planets with water and planets with the right conditions for life.

Well -- partially true. They haven't found that many yet -- but I believe many DO exist.



So the question are we alone in the universe in 2010 is a silly one.

NOT true.

As ATS member 'Noncompatible' said above:

...We are alone in the universe until we discover otherwise.
Statistical probabilities are not enough...


I personally believe that intelligent life is elsewhere in the universe, but I have no way to prove that belief.
Do I have evidence? -- Yes. Do I have Proof? -- No.

Therefore, if someone else asks the question "Are we alone in the universe", I would not consider it silly. I have an opinion, but no proof, so why should I consider that question silly coming from someone else?



[edit on 8/25/2010 by Soylent Green Is People]



posted on Aug, 25 2010 @ 07:41 AM
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Originally posted by Hefficide

Originally posted by Matrix Rising

So the question, are we alone belongs with the question is the earth flat.


I can prove that the Earth is not flat


I would like to see this.

How would you - an individual - prove this?

Don't get me wrong, I agree with you, but that claim is something I would lilke the average joe to prove.

Just for fun..



posted on Aug, 25 2010 @ 07:51 AM
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reply to post by Matrix Rising
 


You can’t use statistics because we only have a single sample and we’re not sure about how life came to be.

Your lottery analogy is correct except we don’t know how many digits make up the winning number. If it is only six digits and there a million people playing then the odds of someone winning may be quite likely however if there are 100bn digits then those odds don’t look so good.

In the case of life in the universe we don’t know how it happened so we can’t describe the odds of it happening elsewhere. There may be 10^24 stars in the universe but the odds of abiogenesis occurring may be 10^24:1 making it unlikely that there is life elsewhere in the universe. Of course the odds may be just 10:1 making it very likely but we just don’t know.

Thus we cannot say whether it is statistically likely (or unlikely) that life exists outside of our planet.

Also biodiversity is irrelevant to this case as life evolving is not the same as life occurring. Extremophiles don’t impact on the question unless it can be shown that they came into existence independently of any other life form.

reply to post by badw0lf
 


That’s easy, watch a ship come over the horizon, you’ll it’s mast before your see the hull. Or watch an eclipse, the shadow cast on the moon will be circular. Both of these would be impossible if the earth was flat.

[edit on 25-8-2010 by Mike_A]



posted on Aug, 25 2010 @ 07:54 AM
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Originally posted by Blue Shift

Originally posted by MarkusMaximus
We can, however, point at indirect evidence. By using satellite telescopes, we can observe planets in areas where life could be reasonably expected to exist...And by watching these planets, we can observe fluctuations in their atmospheric makeup. In other words, we'd see fluctuations in the gases that comprise their atmospheres. And that's interesting, because on earth that happens due to seasons and plant cycles.......


Well, have any planets been found yet with these same fluctuations of gasses, that would suggest there is life on it? Nope.

Should I just assume that's because we "just haven't found it yet?" Like I said, I'm not big on religious belief.


Well, since we've just discovered how to reliably locate WHERE exoplanents are, and have only verified a handful of them, no, we haven't observed these fluctuations. But you asked for proof, and that's more than likely the form in which it will come.



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