One of the silliest questions in the world - Are we alone in the universe?

Originally posted by Blue Shift

Originally posted by ALOSTSOUL
The universe is so large there has to be more life out there than that confined to this rock.

Why is size all that important? You want me to go though the logic again? Okay...

You have a box. There's a red ball in it.
You have NO IDEA how it got there.
You double the size of the box. Look inside.
How many red balls will be there? One.
You triple the size of the box. How many balls in there now? One. Okay.
A hundred times as big.
A million times as big.

Now you tell me how big that box has to be before there is going to be another ball in it. Are you assuming that some how, at some point, another red ball will magically appear in it? Why? How?

The box is man made and only a man made object was placed in it thus this logic does not measure up correctly.


Its more like finding a box full of packing penuts with a red ball on the side. Whe know there is at least 1 ball and it is possible for others to find the same fate. We reach into the packing about an inch deep in a 20 foot box. We feel around... blindly... hoping to find another round object that could be a ball but we found nothing. Since nothing was found at 1 inch depth then there can not be another ball if the other 19 foot 11inches.... right?

We will never know till fully searched and due to our intel or lack there of we will destroy ourselfs before searching the extent of space.

After all think of this:

Is space just a large box made by god where there is a start and a finish?
If not then it must keep going huh?
If it keeps going and is endless then there is endless chances of finding another red ball right?

After all our sun is more RARE than we are if you think about it. There are 7bi+l humans on this planet alone and there are many planets in this system yet there is only 1 sun! Somthing so rare that only 1 exsits in our entire system! Yet when looking at other systems, do to there bright nature we are able to see the sun is not alone in the universe. Yet humans having more than 7bil+ on a single planet not to mention the millions more life forms in our system, think that we are alone as itel life form number 1????


Well wake the F up people! Itel life is not rare and to think we are alone is retarded to the point of ignorance.

Originally posted by Blue Shift

Originally posted by MarkusMaximus
Your logic is flawed. The "other" red ball could be so far away that you're not capable (yet) of seeing it. Yet to preemptively deny the possibility of its existence would be folly.

But neither can you simply assume that another ball exists in the box if it gets to a certain size, if size is the only variable factor. That's logic, right there. Should I assume that any box of sufficient size will have two or more balls in it?

No, and I don't think that everyone who supports the possibility of life existing elsewhere in this entire universe cites the size of the universe as the reason for that possibility......

There are things that we can observe about life in the cosmos by examining earth, a place which was fortunate enough to have life evolve...

Your statement that life was a "one shot deal" is an interesting one...because that "one shot deal" is over a million species of life, found from lush equatorial regions, all the way to the most inhospitable locations know to mankind. Life flourishes. As the other poster said: It finds a way.

As far as proof of life elsewhere, we can't hand you a photograph of an alien. Or even a snapshot of a plant on another planet....We haven't explored far enough into the univserse to do that.

We can, however, point at indirect evidence. By using satellite telescopes, we can observe planets in areas where life could be reasonably expected to exist...And by watching these planets, we can observe fluctuations in their atmospheric makeup. In other words, we'd see fluctuations in the gases that comprise their atmospheres. And that's interesting, because on earth that happens due to seasons and plant cycles.......

Nope, Mathematically impossible.


Read The Thiaoouba Prophecy, author claims it to be true and hasn't sought money for the book. Free to download.

Interesting story if anything.

Originally posted by MarkusMaximus
We can, however, point at indirect evidence. By using satellite telescopes, we can observe planets in areas where life could be reasonably expected to exist...And by watching these planets, we can observe fluctuations in their atmospheric makeup. In other words, we'd see fluctuations in the gases that comprise their atmospheres. And that's interesting, because on earth that happens due to seasons and plant cycles.......

Well, have any planets been found yet with these same fluctuations of gasses, that would suggest there is life on it? Nope.

Should I just assume that's because we "just haven't found it yet?" Like I said, I'm not big on religious belief.

reply to post by Blue Shift


Are you a materialist that believes everything was random, including life? Hopefully you don’t take this as an offensive approach, just wondering your position.

Originally posted by robbinsj
The box is man made and only a man made object was placed in it thus this logic does not measure up correctly.

That's because you changed the conditions of the thought experiment. I clearly said that we had NO IDEA how the red ball got in the box. As in, not a clue. Don't know. Can't assume anything. Because that's exactly what the conditions are for life on Earth. We don't know how it happened here, or got here, or anything. We have some theories and notions, but nothing definitive.

The only variable is the size of the box, as in, "The universe is SO BIG that it must have other life in it somewhere!" If the box was a trillion times as big as the original box, would it just automatically gain another ball from somewhere, somehow? Is a trillion the magic number?

[edit on 24-8-2010 by Blue Shift]

reply to post by Blue Shift


The problem with your thought experiment is that it does not apply to the model of our Universe.

Even if creation is random, the size of the universe and length of time it has existed and will exists for, tells us life is a fundamental part of reality.

Peace.
ALS

[edit on 24-8-2010 by ALOSTSOUL]

reply to post by MarkusMaximus


Exactly it's very simple. It's just a matter probability, statistics and entropy.

Let's look at the Lotto.

If you have 2 people playing the lotto statistics and probability tells us that it will be harder for one of the two people to hit the six digit Lotto.

Now say you have 100 people playing the Lotto. Statistics and probability says that it's more likely that someone will hit the lotto with 100 people playing vs 2.

You can take it up to a million people playing the lotto and you can see where I'm going.

Now we look at the universe with billions of galaxies and billions of planets and there's plenty of places for life to flourish.

Now if there's evidence that earth is the only planet in the universe where organisms can dump entropy and build an atmosphere to sustain life then present it.

Originally posted by Maddogkull
Are you a materialist that believes everything was random, including life? Hopefully you don’t take this as an offensive approach, just wondering your position.

I don't think everything is random, since consciousness and observation creates (or allows for) order, and order mitigates chaos. I also hope I recognize the difference between wishful thinking, conjecture and proof based on logic and evidence.

Originally posted by ALOSTSOUL
Even if creation is random, the size of the universe and length of time it has existed and will exists for, tells us life is a fundamental part of reality.

You allow for creation (however that happens) to be random. I suggest that it might be unique, as it is proven that even with infinite time and space, there are unique things in the universe. Not everything repeats. Not everything duplicates. I will only type the period at the end of this sentence once, forever.

So, yes, life is a part of reality. I know from experience that the two are inextricably intertwined. But that doesn't mean it's a recurring part.

reply to post by Blue Shift


You're not making any sense.

We're talking about statistics, probability and thermodynamics and you're saying life could be a unique event that happened just on earth.

But where is there a shred of evidence that this is the case. Where's the evidence that earth is the only place in the universe that will allow organisms to dump entropy?

That makes zero sense in the context of billions of galaxies and billions of planets.

as it is proven that even with infinite time and space, there are unique things in the universe. Not everything repeats. Not everything duplicates.

I don't understand what you mean by this?

On an infinite timeline everything and anything WILL duplicate and repeat. A good thought experiment for this is the The infinite monkey theorem. The monkey would not just do it once but an infinite amount of times.

So nothing has been proven, infact you have completely contradicted yourself.

Peace.
ALS

[edit on 24-8-2010 by ALOSTSOUL]

Was it absurd for the first people on earth to think that maybe they were the only ones here, because they hadn't seen any real evidence of anyone else?

I say no.

Originally posted by zeetroyman
i completely agree..

First response to any sceptic is " there are more grains of sand on earth than planets in our Galaxy, now tell me that not one of those planets doesnt have life".

To think such a thing is ludicrious!

There are other lifeforms out there, we dont understand space, how it works, how to travel vast distances in a short space of time etc..

Just because an idea sounds ridiculous (i.e. the one stating that we are the only lifeforms in the universe) doesnt mean it isnt correct. For example, I think the idea that life popped up out of nowhere for no particular reason, or that there is some sort of being that created us both sound equally ridiculous and unlikely, but its got to be one or the other hasnt it.

Personally though I think life is probably common in the universe, but it rarely reaches a level where the species is able to explore the universe, and when it does, considering the huge number of stars/planets that are out there it isnt that suprising that no one's been round our neck of the woods yet.

Okay, bottom line:
1: We are alone in the universe. (Implications are enormous)
2: We are not alone in the universe. (Implications are enormous)

proof,proof,proof,proof,proof
thats all i hear but its right infront of u
thers life out ther wether its got concious thoughts or not is a diffrent story but
life can thrive anywer look at the sea if u go down about 2000 -3000
feet it'll be pitch black the pressure is enough to implode ur head within a milla second but still fish with orbes of light attached to its heads out hunting and micro organisims that live in sand i mean sand for got sakeits salt and rock but yet life is ther life is like a desease its uncontrolable it spreads without sight
and it mutates ??

we need debunkers other wise who we gunna take the piss out of wen were right
ha ha

[edit on 24-8-2010 by satnav_c-1]

reply to post by Bluebelle


i think u got the right idea ur probabilitys of life getting to the level of exploration
and the fact the universe is so vast its not supprising if wer a experiment of life
in a far of galaxy wer eather nobody cares or nobody knows
its like playing hide and seek but using or solar system to hide in
its just luck at the end of the day

I personally believe that we are not alone, and I base my opinion on the sheer size of the universe.

HOWEVER...
...what I "believe" and what my "opinion" is on the matter is irrelevant.
My belief, strong opinion, and the sheer size of the universe does not make the possibility of life elsewhere any more of an "Absolute Truism" (i.e., so it's not a silly question).

I still don't have the evidence to say "ET life absolutely positively exists", even though I believe it does exist.




[edit on 8/24/2010 by Soylent Green Is People]

Originally posted by Matrix Rising
But where is there a shred of evidence that this is the case.

I can't prove a negative. Nobody can. I can't prove that other life forms don't exist elsewhere in the universe.

Just show me proof that they do. That's positive proof, which is something that can be shown, if it exists. That's all I'm asking. Don't make me have to believe.

Originally posted by ALOSTSOUL
On an infinite timeline everything and anything WILL duplicate and repeat. A good thought experiment for this is the The infinite monkey theorem. The monkey would not just do it once but an infinite amount of times.

Again, a nice theory. Nice conjecture about the recursive nature of the universe. You could be right. Just show me an example to prove that it actually happens.

It just might be that life only comes into being once, only on Earth, an infinite number of times.