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Debunk evolution once and for all

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posted on Aug, 31 2010 @ 05:31 PM
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Seems like 27 pages of the word shell game.

Faith, Theory, Evidence, Facts, Proof, Belief, Knowledge, Wisdom

How are we supposed to even understand each other if we do not share the same definitions on words? This discussion can go nowhere good as long as the language we share is not shared.

What does the ATS website use as the official mediator for definitions?

I said, "Do you speak-a my language?"
He just smiled and gave me a vegemite sandwich -Men at Work




posted on Sep, 1 2010 @ 03:28 PM
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www.evolutionfairytale.com...

The Evolution Definition Shell Game;
Fred Williams
October 2000

The term evolution often takes on several meanings in today's scientific circles, often in very misleading ways. A 1999 undergraduate college textbook on Biology states: "Evolution is a generation-to-generation change in a population's frequencies of alleles or genotypes. Because such a change in a gene pool is evolution on the smallest scale, it is referred to more specifically as microevolution"1 [emphasis in original]. This type of "evolution" is widely accepted by evolutionists and creationists alike and is not in dispute. It really amounts to minor genetic variation that may result from selective breeding such as found in the different varieties of dogs, or from placing stress on a population resulting in adaptation to an environment (i.e. the peppered moth in England, or drug-resistant bacteria).

Microevolution is a misnomer, since it is not evolution as most people understand the word, but instead is adaptation and variation within a kind of organism - lizards are still lizards, dogs are still dogs, and peppered moths are still peppered moths! Evolutionists invariably appeal to this kind of "evolution" as "proof" for their theory.
The same college biology book later defines macroevolution as the origin of new taxonomic groups, from species to families to kingdoms.

The problem with this definition is that it encompasses both large-scale change, such as invertebrates evolving to vertebrates (which creationists dispute), and small-scale change that results in speciation (which creationists do not dispute). Indeed a new species can easily arise by simple geographical isolation of segments of a population (called allopatric speciation). For example, there are six species of North American jackrabbits, all of which lost the ability to interbreed due to changed mating habits caused by geographic separation. Thus the term macroevolution is misleading by its inclusion of microevolution, a confusion confirmed by the very biology book that defined it, since the book later attributes speciation to microevolution on isolated populations!

Finally, there is large-scale evolution that may be referred to as molecules-to-man evolution, a theory that organisms over a long period of time have evolved into more complex organisms through the improvement or addition of new organs and bodily structures. This is how the word evolution is generally understood by the public. In fact it was defined this way for many years until evolutionists began evolving the word!

Molecules-to-man evolution is the type of evolution that my web site seeks to portray as a "fairy tale for grownups". It is unobservable, untestable, and has little, if any, evidence to support it. At best it should be labeled a low-grade hypothesis. Unfortunately, evolutionists continue to invoke microevolution and speciation as "evidence" that large-scale, molecules-to-man evolution is true. This is an invalid extrapolation, and is very misleading to the public. It is apparent that due to the lack of any real, tangible evidence for large-scale evolution, evolutionists have sought to create the illusion that evolution is true by reshaping and blurring the meaning of the word evolution.

1. Campbell, Reece, Mitchell, Biology 5th Edition, 1999, p. 432
2. Ibid. p. 445
3. Ibid. p. 451
4. Evolutionist G.A. Kerkut defined the ‘General Theory of Evolution’ in his 1960 book 'Implications of Evolution' as "the theory that all the living forms in the world have arisen from a single source which itself came from an inorganic form." Some dictionaries still define it similarly, such as the Oxford Concise Science Dictionary: "evolution: The gradual process by which the present diversity of plant and animal life arose from the earliest and most primitive organisms, which is believed to have been continuing for the past 3000 million years."



posted on Sep, 1 2010 @ 03:30 PM
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reply to post by The Matrix Traveller
 





theory that organisms over a long period of time have evolved into more complex organisms through the improvement or addition of new organs and bodily structures


Given that we have prove this happens, fossil and gene evidence, the entire article you posted is scientific hogwash


Nice try though...



posted on Sep, 1 2010 @ 03:35 PM
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reply to post by MrXYZ
 


Just seeing if this thread was dead or not.... LOL

Looks like you are still following it ???



posted on Sep, 1 2010 @ 03:37 PM
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Originally posted by The Matrix Traveller
reply to post by MrXYZ
 


Just seeing if this thread was dead or not.... LOL

Looks like you are still following it ???


Stop trapping me by posting false science



posted on Sep, 1 2010 @ 03:43 PM
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reply to post by MrXYZ
 


Stop trapping me by posting false science


I didn't know you felt trapped ???


Free your self.....



posted on Sep, 2 2010 @ 06:51 AM
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reply to post by The Matrix Traveller
 


That's not exactly related to evolution at all. Christians basically believe Faith in Christ and savior, works, and teaching the gospel are all needed together to not go to hell. That's the core of it. It basically slams it down as "you're in the lowest place of existence. Earn your place back up".

Faith doe not need proof, though it can help. However, proof and works are not the same. Works are doing, proof is things coming to you. One is output, the other is input.



posted on Sep, 2 2010 @ 11:16 AM
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Originally posted by Gorman91
Faith doe not need proof, though it can help.


Sure it does. Faith is simply believing in irrational things that are unbacked by evidence. Those who are proud of faith are unknowingly reveling in their folly.



posted on Sep, 2 2010 @ 05:59 PM
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reply to post by Gorman91
 



That's not exactly related to evolution at all. Christians basically believe Faith in Christ and savior, works, and teaching the gospel are all needed together to not go to hell. That's the core of it. It basically slams it down as "you're in the lowest place of existence. Earn your place back up".


One interpretation of the "human primate" I guess...

From "The Gospel of Thomas"...


49.
Jesus said,

“Blessed are the Solitary and Elect,
for you will find The Kingdom.
For you are from it,
and to it you will return.”

50. Jesus said,

“If they say to you,
“Where did you come from?”

say to them, “We came from The Light,
the place where The Light
came into being
on Its own accord
and established Itself
and became manifest
through their Image.”

If they say to you,

“Is it you?”

say, “We are its children,
and we are the elect
of The Living Father.”

If they ask you, “What is the sign of your Father in you?”

say to them,

“It is Movement and Repose.”


And....


56. Jesus said,

“Whoever has come to understand the World
has found only a corpse,

and whoever has found a corpse
is superior to the World.”



But I do NOT follow the Doctrine of Rome nor any other breakaway denomination...

I only follow "The LIGHT"... and Not Human Doctrine...


Faith doe not need proof, though it can help. However, proof and works are not the same. Works are doing, proof is things coming to you. One is output, the other is input.


Answer....

"The Epistle of James" Chapter 2 verse 17. ... Quote;


17. Even so faith,
if it hath not works,
is dead, being alone.


You can have Faith in....

a. Truth.
or....
b. "human" interpretation.


Sorry.... without "Proof" there is No works...

For Works is the "Proof" of LIGHT or LIFE..

According to "Christian Doctrine"... Christ is the Proof of God ???



posted on Sep, 2 2010 @ 06:00 PM
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Originally posted by traditionaldrummer

Originally posted by Gorman91
Faith doe not need proof, though it can help.


Sure it does. Faith is simply believing in irrational things that are unbacked by evidence. Those who are proud of faith are unknowingly reveling in their folly.


Bingo...

I agree 100%



posted on Sep, 2 2010 @ 06:01 PM
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reply to post by eNumbra
 

You are right. There are some people who will never be convinced that there is a God. These are the type of people who will try to argue with God on Judgment Day that he does not exist. That will not work out well for them. If they want eternity without God, they will get their wish.



posted on Sep, 2 2010 @ 06:08 PM
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reply to post by CharlesMartel
 


Just as well I am Not being Judged as you put it, by "Romans" or "Roman Doctrine" and/or any other breakaway group...

The Carpenter made NO reference to the bible or Roman church or any other breakaway denomination...

I wonder why ???

But the "Carpenter" of Nazareth did make mention of the "Synagogue of Satin"...

The Roman church and breakaway denominations perhaps ???

"The Great Deception" that would come on the human Species"...

The Carpender did say however, the "wicked one" would come and deceive the Whole World (Not just some but all) and as you can see.... This happened some hundred years ago by the Roman church....

Yes.... it is a Shocking story isn't it ???

[edit on 2-9-2010 by The Matrix Traveller]



posted on Sep, 2 2010 @ 07:02 PM
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I think the Atheists are trying to make us look bad by claiming it is faith that drives us to believe in GOD, which is a complete non-sense, and it is awkward and weird when believers of GOD accepts it and claims we have faith.

If you understood how idiotic it is to claim I believe in GOD due to faith, then you would understand what I mean.

You have faith in a person not because you have never met him, never seen him, or there is no evidence of him, that he even exists. That is what they are trying to push in your heads, and you guys actually take that and claim I have faith and I'm proud.

Do a little thinking, everything around us is evidence of a creator.

Creation is all around us, and the evidence is repeating itself in daily bases, in millions of instances around the Universe. We see the creation of stars, we see the destruction of stars. We see the creation of human beings, and the destruction. We see plants, animals, planets, everything around the Universe is created, then destroyed.

The laws of the Universe which allows this to happen is evidence of GOD. The language which the Universe was programmed in is the evidence of GOD. I can go on.

Then they will argue, well oozyism, we have never seen GOD, nor is there any evidence that GOD exists, kind of awkward at that stage because they will continually say that even when you present them with the Universe lol..



posted on Sep, 2 2010 @ 07:23 PM
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reply to post by oozyism
 



The laws of the Universe which allows this to happen is evidence of GOD. The language which the Universe was programmed in is the evidence of GOD. I can go on.


Bingo.....

But is Not The God as is described today.... corrupted through "Roman Indoctrination"...

As I said the Carpenter made NO reference to the Roman church or breakaway groups nor did The Carpenter make any reference whatsoever to the "Roman collection of writings" involving the NT known as the bible today or any other version of such a book...

I wonder why ???

But this does Not imply there wasn't Something which Created All.... Which some call God.

Perhaps to do with LIGHT and the Organisation of LIGHT involving "Intelligent design" by "Awareness"...

But the one speaking (Jesus the Carpenter) was referring to "The LIGHT of MAN" which is "The LIFE of God" and not a person or any other species as claimed by some today.



posted on Sep, 2 2010 @ 07:59 PM
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reply to post by The Matrix Traveller
 


I looked at the world. I found a corpse. I am a Christian and very stoic. I accept faith as irrational but irrational things are not necessarily wrong.



posted on Sep, 2 2010 @ 08:27 PM
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reply to post by Gorman91
 



I looked at the world. I found a corpse. I am a Christian and very stoic. I accept faith as irrational but irrational things are not necessarily wrong.


FAITH is Not irrational.....

If you don't have "faith" in walking.... you will never walk ???

But first you need to know HOW to Walk ???

So Faith is to "Trust" in something (first having knowledge).

But is it knowledge of The LIFE of God which is The LIGHT of MEN", which Lighteth every MAN (Soul) which Cometh into the World.. (both MAN and Wo-MAN.... Not ADAM or EVE as they are Primates).

Or is it only Faith in human Interpretation ???

From "The Gospel of Thomas".... Quote;


49. Jesus said, “Blessed are the Solitary and Elect,
for you will find The Kingdom.
For you are from it,
and to it you will return.”

50.
Jesus said,

“If they say to you,
“Where did you come from?”

say to them, “We came from The Light,
the place where The Light
came into being
on Its own accord
and established Itself
and became manifest
through their Image.”

If they say to you, “Is it you?”

say, “We are its children,
and we are the elect
of The Living Father.”

If they ask you, “What is the sign of your Father in you?”

say to them, “It is Movement and Repose.”


And.....


70. Jesus said, “That which you have will Save you
if you bring it forth from yourselves.

That which you do not have within you
will Kill you if you do not have it within you.”



But is our Faith in "human understanding" (Ignorance).

Or is our Faith in "The LIGHT of MAN" which is the LIFE of God...

LIGHT as being of the "visible spectrum" so called by the human species...

Every person has a "god" according to their own needs...

But The LIGHT is another matter...

[edit on 2-9-2010 by The Matrix Traveller]



posted on Sep, 2 2010 @ 08:28 PM
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reply to post by The Matrix Traveller
 


I want everyone to play this online game, this explains what you have been talking about, how we experience the world through this body (hence through human beings).

In this game, you experience the RuneScape world, through the Character which you build yourself..

Just because you experience that world, through that character, doesn't mean you are actually the character. Your character is not conscious, the true consciousness is derived from you, experiencing the world through your character. The same way the human character is not conscious, that consciousness is derived from either the true consciousness, or just another character.

The game has objectives, the same way this life has objectives. Although we can play the game forgetting about the objectives, we won't achieve, nor will we gain anything for not pursuing those objectives. The same goes with this life.

Now we can move on and find out what the objectives are:
www.runescape.com...

So the point is, there is one true consciousness hence GOD, there could be thousands of characters in between GOD and human beings, and as you can see the build up of characters increase, for example not long from now we will merge with robots, no one disputes this..



[edit on 2-9-2010 by oozyism]



posted on Sep, 2 2010 @ 08:45 PM
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reply to post by oozyism
 



Just because you experience that world, through that character, doesn't mean you are actually the character.


Correct...


Your character is not conscious,


Correct again...


the true consciousness is derived from you, experiencing the world through your character.


Incorrect "Consciousness" only experiences the Program...


The same way the human character is not conscious, that consciousness is derived from either the true consciousness, or just another character.


"True Consciousness", Stands alone and does Not require anything....

There is an Interesting ancient Christian book.... only a couple of pages long called...

"The Thunder Perfect Mind"...

www.gnosis.org...

Defining the "True Mind"....

(I am Not Gnostic....)

But this writing is well worth reading.... as it is supposed to be a "Confession" by Jesus...


The game has objectives, the same way this life has objectives. Although we can play the game forgetting about the objectives, we won't achieve, nor will we gain anything for not pursuing those objectives. The same goes with this life.


The human Species gains nothing at all... as it is only beneficial to the Soul involving the "Metamorphoses of the Soul" which involves changes to the Souls Construct i.e. The Birth of The Man Child within every Soul...

The experience we have in this Program i.e. the Species and the Environment invokes "The Metamorphoses of the Soul"...

Edit... evokes should be invokes...

[edit on 2-9-2010 by The Matrix Traveller]



posted on Sep, 2 2010 @ 09:27 PM
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reply to post by The Matrix Traveller
 




Incorrect "Consciousness" only experiences the Program...

Yes, but my point is within this Universe, humans are the characters, we have created another Universe, within this Universe (for example RuneScape) and experience that new Universe through another Character. That way the original consciousness is experiencing the RuneScape Character through Human Character.

If I could put it in a diagram it would be something like this:

Original consciousness --> ...... --> Human Character --> RuneScape Character.

..... would mean the other Characters that we might not be aware of, we can only see forwards, not backward, meaning we can't see the character that might be using human beings to experience this Universe. The same way, the RuneScape Character can't see backwards, the RuneScape character can't see human characters using them to experience the RuneScape Universe.

A better diagram would be something like this:



Simply put:
C1. the original reality, the original Universe, the true Universe, where the true consciousness resides.

C2. (C2) and (C3) can't be proven to exist, so they should simply be the (....), there could be thousands of characters between C4 and C1, we just don't know until we do, but we will know that Characters that will come after C4, hence RuneScape.

C3. Same as (C2), we just don't know.

C4. Human beings, and the Universe we reside on.

C5. RuneScape Character, and the RuneScape Universe.

The original Consciousness can see the whole, everything, but we can't, we can only see (C5), (C6), (C7).... it could go up to infinite..

Hope you understand what I'm saying here, just so I don't loose this amongst the thousands of posts I will post this effort on my profile also for future reference



posted on Sep, 2 2010 @ 10:17 PM
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reply to post by The Matrix Traveller
 


Trust is irrational. I never said it is wrong, I said it is irrational. Rationality is not perfect. Rational thought dictates that God should just press the undo button and make us perfect. God is not rational. Neither is trust in him. But that does not make it wrong. it merely means that rational thought and religion are not in union perfectly. I have no problem with that. Why does God have to be rational? Rationally we should all be damned. The ease to get into heaven via Jesus is not rational. It is a free gift.

All that said, I trust my God and I learn from the mistakes of assuming anything. So that's just me.



reply to post by oozyism
 


To respond simply, crap is crap. It is not made up. Saying a piece of crap is food is not going to change reality. Reality is set in logical stone and is unchangeable but by those same rules set up.

You must learn how to use limits! The fact is that everything is how it is. God is not deceptive. If evidence says evolution is real, and it is, then it is. And Satan isn't going to go and put bones in the ground because Satan is not physical. He is a voice. Only as powerful as you let him be.

Ergo, all evidence says evolution is real, then it must be.

Take away all the 10,000 years of total bullsh*t that humanity has generated out of their behinds. Throw it all away. let's use logic here. Lets use limits.

We need a beginning, the first limit. We must identify a point in which things changed to the order that God introduced. I personally feel this beginning limit is with the Toba Catastrophe in the Ice Age. That is where God intervened. I have no idea otherwise. All I know is God set a beginning. An end to the chaos and the beginning of the order. It is marked by our removal from evolution and evolution's affects. Now we need another limit. Apply it where evidence shows it. This is the fall of man. This seems to have occurred 50,000 years ago with the event known as "Behavioral Modernity". That is the birth of human nature, and in doing so, the birth of original sin. Now we need yet another limit. The great flood. Ice age. Ice ages melt. Seas rise. This limit places Noah 10,000 years ago or sometime during the great melt. This leaves 40,000 years of travesty and sin. Entire empires could have came and gone in that time span. Recall the spirit of God was still with man, and therefore too was universal reason and logic and the knowledge that came with it. Long life, technology, and many more wonders. We will never know, for they are gone now. This change in the Earth introduces ever more order. God is introducing order to a chaotic system. We can apply more limits where needed. What we find is a union of evidential science and biblical events. We have a perfect order needed.



Study architecture. Specifically modernist architecture. I recommend Architecture and Disjunction by Bernard Tschumi. Treating and viewing the Bible and God as an architect and his design in the modern light is one of the most unique viewpoints you can find and you see things in an entirely new light. One that makes things so much more clear.

Read a few pages here:

(crap scans by googe,)

Read the Architectural paradox section and try to imagine yourself in the mind of God while reading. or perhaps God is reading it to you

books.google.com... =result&resnum=1&ved=0CDMQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q&f=false


[edit on 2-9-2010 by Gorman91]



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