Debunk evolution once and for all

Originally posted by MrXYZ
reply to post by spy66

 

Given our somewhat limited understanding of time, you can't just say "science and god will meet". You BELIEVE that's gonna happen...but we just don't know.

Essentially, you're doing the same thing as the people who claimed Zeus is responsible for lightning...

What i am really saying is that scientists will never discover God. Because scientists are working from present time of observation. And they will never discover God from that point of observation. Because we cant measure the distance from present time and all the way back to the beginning of existence.

Scientists will always be behind the expansion of time. And that only means new future discoveries about what has already happened.

reply to post by MrXYZ


Thing is though, Evolution does effect the OP, as he/she is a result of it.

We are all the results of Evolution and we are all slightly genetically different from any human being that has ever lived. Without Evolution the OP wouldn't even exist, I'd say that's a damn big effect

reply to post by Titen-Sxull


Of course it does. I'm just sad I can't show him a real picture of a crockoduck to destroy the last bit of doubt...because that's what it apparently takes

[edit on 30-8-2010 by MrXYZ]

reply to post by Titen-Sxull


Are you saying me having a kid is evolution?

Nope, I stand corrected, I'm not effected by evolution..

Nothing more to add?

Here is something, if you want to believe everything around you is evidence of sky walker or the spaghetti monster, then by all means believe in that. That is better than nothing, but you don't believe in nothing is well lol, that is absolutely nothing riiiigggghhhttt ..

An Atom is evidence of a creator, the language this universe is written on is evidence of a creator, the language which we are using right now to make sense of everything, this language has existed since the beginning of this universe..

Ahh are you an Atheist>? Tell us what you believe in..

Originally posted by Titen-Sxull
reply to post by MrXYZ

 

Thing is though, Evolution does effect the OP, as he/she is a result of it.

We are all the results of Evolution and we are all slightly genetically different from any human being that has ever lived. Without Evolution the OP wouldn't even exist, I'd say that's a damn big effect

Isn't that your belief? It seems you also have a belief system

There is a reason why they fabricated all those evidence to support evolution, because Atheists are so desperate to find a religion themselves lol

reply to post by spy66


Well, we don't know how far we can go back yet? They just launched a new telescope allowing us to "look back in time" like never before. We can see background radiation, infrared light, and normal light that left its origins billions of years ago. The star light we see is sometimes so old, the actual stars are very likely to be dead by now.

Every few years science makes progress and we can look back even further. For now we don't know how "deep the rabbit hole goes"...or how far back we can go. There's no way we can tell because we don't know how far we can get with technology.

reply to post by oozyism


Which is why the few fakes that have been brought forward as proof have been dismissed and debunked by evolutionary biologists and other scientists who study the development of Man. Rather quickly I might add.

Originally posted by buddhasystem

Originally posted by tigpoppa
I am a catholic and evolution isnt part of the religion. Mostly its crazy christians who for some reason latch onto science like its a religion. Their two separate things and one has nothing to do with the other. I am also a scientist and catholics invented the punnet square to study trait inheritance via a monk named Gregor Mendel. Religion and science are 2 different things and should not be confused. Then again there are alot of pseudo religons like evangelicals who are more like illegitimate believers in god.

As a scientist, I think your post is a cop-out. Christianity as we know it in most of its forms, does include assertion of some facts. After all, that's why there is a debate about the Shroud or Turin etc. If you take Bible literally, then you would indeed need to assume that evolution didn't take place at all. You can't just shrug it off. If you suggest that we take the Bible metaphorically, that's different and I would support that. But to just ignore the schism between traditional Christianity and science (in its real sense) and say "well it's different" is a cop-out indeed.

Yes some christianity does include facts. Thats more the evangelicals not the catholics. No catholic believes jonah lived in a whale 30 days, that is just stupid. Its a story to teach a lesson, like grimms fairy tales. Catholics dont take the bible literally that is the evangelicals like I said, lol. Their a weird bunch no denying that. I understand the schism between christianity and science but that doesnt happen with catholics. The pope may say one thing or burn people for another but there are still monks out there doing science and all kinds of fun stuff! Then again catholics are different they dont take the bible literally and I dont believe in evolution anyways. At the end of the day the thought of evolution as fact is as stupid as genesis being a fact. Religion is not science and facts are not faith, careful not to mix them up. There are so many religions in the world because people need to find the right fit for them which may be christianity, Buddhist, or atheist. I say atheist because they all have a dogma of what to believe or not believe. Just go with what feels right for you and at the end of the day if you feel good thats all that matters.


Am I the only scientist here? Keep in mind guys before you get your blood boiling that Evolution is a theory not a fact. Also science builds off of theories so as new ideas come along we build on them. Such as today we have micro and macro evolution. I believe in micro evolution NOT macro evolution.

I mean seriously the human dna is made of around 3 billion base pairs, to assume humans crawled out of ooze is to assume our base pairs underwent one mutation a year, yet in the last thousands of years we havent changed a bit, grown wings, or gained the ability to breathe underwater.

Originally posted by spy66
reply to post by spy66

What i am really saying is that scientists will never discover God. Because scientists are working from present time of observation. And they will never discover God from that point of observation. Because we cant measure the distance from present time and all the way back to the beginning of existence.

Scientists will always be behind the expansion of time. And that only means new future discoveries about what has already happened.

Scientists are not paid to discuss god, why would they? Your talking to one now if you meet one in real life you can ask them. Its not like scientists are empty headed idiots with no personality. Well most are but not all of them, there are a few of us who like to throw down at the bar get drunk and be crazy to unwind from how serious being a scientist is. me and my chem chair used to go play quizzo and get hammered after classes.

You dont ask the fast food guy about god, besides who cares what a scientist like me or anyone else thinks. All that matters is what you think. If you have a faith question ask a religious person not a scientist. I mean you wouldnt hire a clown to fix a leak in the john would you?

[edit on 30-8-2010 by tigpoppa]

reply to post by MrXYZ


I have a question for you.

If light is the first sign of existence. And the fastest expanding source we know of.

What would reflect radiation or the light back to us so that we could observe it?

Would the infinite darkness of space reflect something that is expanding at the speed of light back to earth?

Originally posted by oozyism
reply to post by Titen-Sxull

 

Here is something, if you want to believe everything around you is evidence of sky walker or the spaghetti monster, then by all means believe in that. That is better than nothing, but you don't believe in nothing is well lol, that is absolutely nothing riiiigggghhhttt ..

What's your issue with having an absence of belief. Some people prefer facts, and are humble enough to admit they don't know if we don't have an answer (yet). Are you seriously claiming that believing in a some crazy theory is better than admitting you don't have all the answers? That's a pretty insane statement!

Originally posted by oozyism
reply to post by Titen-Sxull

 

An Atom is evidence of a creator...

Again, go look up the definition of evidence!

Originally posted by oozyism
reply to post by Titen-Sxull

 

Ahh are you an Atheist>? Tell us what you believe in..

The very definition of atheism is the ABSENCE OF BELIEF! We prefer FACTS and if no facts are available, we don't just make stuff up, but rather admit that we don't have all the answers yet.

Hundreds of years ago religious people told us gods are responsible for lightning and fire. We proved them wrong, and that pushed back the barrier.

We then were told the earth is flat...again, science proved you wrong. Took some time to accept it though.

Then science had to fight hard to get religion to acknowledge the fact that we aren't the centre of the universe, and that we are in fact in some backwater system and the earth revolves around the sun and not vice versa.

Do I have to go on???

Science is slowly proving people who take religious scripture literally wrong, step by step, and nothing can stop it!

And are you seriously claiming someone "fabricated" all the fossils and other hard evidence in favor of evolution to f*** over religious people? Well, I guess we are on a conspiracy forum...but that's even crazier than the hollow earth theory

[edit on 30-8-2010 by MrXYZ]

reply to post by spy66


Given that we KNOW the universe is expanding...it's not really possible for "darkness to get back to earth" in the way you stated.

So far we know the universe is expanding, and in the process, cooling down. If this continues, eventually, we'll hit absolut zero...but luckily that's a very very very very long time away.

reply to post by oozyism


Yes, that is my belief, we all came from Evolution. It just happens to be a belief that is supported by the evidence. A belief supported by evidence is far more likely to be true than one based on Faith.

For the record I am an atheist. That doesn't mean I believe there is absolutely no God (just to clear up the misconceptions you might have about atheists) but it means that I lack a belief in a deity because theism fails to meet its burden of proof. Because there is no evidence of god(s) I am in a position of default skepticism/disbelief called atheism.

As for the "language" of the Universe, who are we to say that a God had to create order in the Universe? Why conjure up a God to fill the gaps? Why not just admit that you don't know and wait for the evidence to point to a conclusion?

By the way the "language" of life is written in genetics and genetics is what allows Evolution to work. So if there is a God he apparently created via Evolution.

And yes having a kid is evolution. Evolution is genetic variation over time, it typically isn't viewed in one generation intervals or in only one mating pair but any genetic variation in your child is Evolution.

reply to post by MrXYZ


Absolutely nothing

The point is, we have am inbuilt function which forces us to pursue GOD, even you, you can't deny it, there is a reason why you are putting so much effort in this thread trying to disprove GOD, because you have that same earge every other human being has.

Evidence is based on belief, go to google and type define evidence..

your basis for belief or disbelief; knowledge on which to base belief;

I have a belief, so do you

Stop and think for a while before you reply.. getting boring/

Originally posted by MrXYZ
reply to post by spy66

 

Given that we KNOW the universe is expanding...it's not really possible for "darkness to get back to earth" in the way you stated.

I didn't mean the darkness. I meant the expanding radiation/light.

What would reflect the expansion of this energy back to earth so that we could observe and measure it?

Light would expand lot faster than anything else, the first light would be very very far away from any other object that is expanding.

PS: Light is a good way to observe that things do expand. Because light travels fast.

[edit on 27.06.08 by spy66]

Originally posted by oozyism
reply to post by MrXYZ

 

Absolutely nothing

The point is, we have am inbuilt function which forces us to pursue GOD, even you, you can't deny it, there is a reason why you are putting so much effort in this thread trying to disprove GOD, because you have that same earge every other human being has.

Evidence is based on belief, go to google and type define evidence..

your basis for belief or disbelief; knowledge on which to base belief;

I have a belief, so do you

Stop and think for a while before you reply.. getting boring/

Well, but there's STRONG and WEAK evidence...or a total absence of evidence. In the case of evolution, evidence is VERY strong. In fact, we found nothing that would contradict evolution so far.

When it comes to religion, people looooove throwing around the word evidence. But there is NO evidence. There might be some weak evidence of certain religious aspects, but overall, the evidence for creationism doesn't even come close to the evidence we have for evolution.

If you prefer to believe in whatever no matter how weak or non-existent the evidence is, rather than going with the thing we have very strong evidence for...then by all means, you have the right to do that. It's just not very logical or rational.

Oh, and I'm only here because people disregarding facts and spreading stupidity really annoy me. I'm just fine not having all the answers, and I'm really not looking for anything to "fill the gaps". Religions can be interesting, because many humans are affected by it...but that's about it. I don't NEED to belief in fairy tales to be happy

Also, I'm still waiting for you to explain to me where I backtracked


[edit on 30-8-2010 by MrXYZ]

reply to post by eNumbra


Just 'what' Is this 'painful' vision you envision?
It most likely will come right back at you.
It always does, does it not?

He who cast the first stone will surely suffer it's consequence.
You will naturally suffer the consequence of 'your' actions as well as inaction.

Just Do the Right Thing for your own good.
It is in 'your' better interest.
At some point in time you may craw outside of your world and see reality is what U make it. You are responsible for 'every' action you choose.
Every action you make has a ripple effect as a drop of water in the pool of life.

If you have no faith in mankind then what is your purpose here?
Think 'hard' before you choose to Act.
You know what I mean.

[edit on 30-8-2010 by Perseus Apex]

reply to post by Titen-Sxull


Since you are an Atheist you have to remember only micro evolution has been observed, there are five extra types of evolution which hasn't been observed therefore are simply based on belief.

You claim that belief has evidence backing it up, I say my belief in GOD also has evidence backing it up, hence everything around me.. You say my evidence is stupid, but your evidence is logical, but I can say your evidence is stupid, and my evidence is logical..

See how this goes? It is belief, based on evidence.. You might not take everything around you as evidence of GOD but many do, who is right? How do you decide who is right in this matter? Why is your evidence correct and not mine?

We have to ask ourselves these questions.

The Universe has laws, once again evidence of GOD, so much evidence, but you don't want to believe it because you want to see GOD. Here is a question, do you believe in dark matter/energy?

I know you believe in Gravity, the more mass, the more gravity, did this just accidently come to existence? With this perfect formula which fits perfectly with other Universal laws in to one huge puzzle, removing one small piece of the puzzle would destroy the whole Universe, forget about all types of evolution..

I'm not gonna lock myself in a box and look at the world through a close minded and meaningless binoculars with absolutely no purpose, as I said previously we all have that urge to look for GOD, that is why you are here even though you are an Atheist arguing GOD with me ..

I guess it was by chance that we gained the genetics to look for GOD right, that is why the world even at the age of science believes still pursues GOD, but I suppose you believe you are the more evolved creature right lol

reply to post by MrXYZ


I think the discussion between me and you is finished, I already proved my point in regards to evidence, when I said backtrack that meant you went backwards and got scared to even go to Google and see what evidence means..

It is all based on belief mate, belife, so whether you wanna believe is non of my concerns, heck some people believe 1 + 1 = 3, meaning 1man + 1woman overtime gigy with it and equal 3..

Originally posted by oozyism

Originally posted by Barcs
Weren't you going to debunk evolution? Please show me where the science is wrong and explain in detail why you think it doesn't add up.

I simply made a comparison, read through the thread..

I said if thousands of different robots were created at once and left in a planet and then thousand of years later these robots reproduce and increase in numbers, if the robots are left ignorant of the creators then they will come to the same Darwinian evolution conclusion as us, because they will examine the fossil records and see robot A at time line 1 and see robot B at time line 2, both robots resemble therefore make the assumption that robot A evolved to robot B. Just because robot B fossil wasn't found at time line 1 doesn't make it so. That is an assumption we have to make in order for evolution to be true, that being said, we have to make thousands of assumptions in regards to each specie.

Are you kidding me? Unless the robots are complete ignoramuses, they would realize they were created, because the evidence would point to it. They'd see bones for millions and millions of years and then BAM, all of a sudden metal robots. There wouldn't be tons and tons of intermediate species that lead from animal to robot. There would be a quick and sudden change, which would indicate they were created, and didn't evolve from other life on the planet. It may be possible for these robots to improve themselves over the years, but they would know that, because they would build themselves, would they not? I mean they are made of metal right? No sperm, no eggs, no reproduction other than building more robots. That analogy isn't even close to logical.

Now in regards to us somehow already observing evolution.. eeek.. Sorry, just don't believe it, until it comes and affects me like electricity which gives me light, I will stay absent from believing it, got nothing to loose nor gain.

Get what I mean?

Micro evolution is proven.

evolution.berkeley.edu...

Here's evidence of evolution happening with crickets that was observed and studied by scientists. That is one example of dozens. I'll provide more if you'd like but the information is out there, all you have to do is look at it.

Originally posted by oozyism
reply to post by MrXYZ

 

I think the discussion between me and you is finished, I already proved my point in regards to evidence, when I said backtrack that meant you went backwards and got scared to even go to Google and see what evidence means..

It is all based on belief mate, belife, so whether you wanna believe is non of my concerns, heck some people believe 1 + 1 = 3, meaning 1man + 1woman overtime gigy with it and equal 3..

Sorry you ran out of arguments and want to end the discussion

And why would I have to google evidence? I know what the word means. The problem is, you refuse to apply it properly to your own beliefs.

And no, you didn't prove anything. You came in here making ridiculous statement, and people left and right are showing you how wrong you are...and you choose to ignore it because it goes against your belief, like a blind sheep.

Do you know the difference between "making a random statement" and "providing proof"?

Don't bother answering, I'm not expecting any insightful answers from someone who puts belief over facts like a religious zombie drone.
The longer the more, I believe you're a gimmick account...and your main really is an atheist who's having some fun with me. No one is that bad at proving a point as you