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Covert Ops: The billionaire brothers who are waging a war against Obama.

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posted on Aug, 23 2010 @ 02:19 PM
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In Washington, Koch is best known as part of a family that has repeatedly funded stealth attacks on the federal government, and on the Obama Administration in particular.

Their combined fortune of thirty-five billion dollars is exceeded only by those of Bill Gates and Warren Buffett.

The Kochs are longtime libertarians who believe in drastically lower personal and corporate taxes, minimal social services for the needy, and much less oversight of industry—especially environmental regulation. These views dovetail with the brothers’ corporate interests.

www.newyorker.com...

I've heard about these guys, however very little though.




In a study released this spring, the University of Massachusetts at Amherst’s Political Economy Research Institute named Koch Industries one of the top ten air polluters in the United States. And Greenpeace issued a report identifying the company as a “kingpin of climate science denial.”
The report showed that, from 2005 to 2008, the Kochs vastly outdid ExxonMobil in giving money to organizations fighting legislation related to climate change, underwriting a huge network of foundations, think tanks, and political front groups.

Indeed, the brothers have funded opposition campaigns against so many Obama Administration policies—from health-care reform to the economic-stimulus program—that, in political circles, their ideological network is known as the Kochtopus.

Wow, I like these guys already!!


But in all honestly this is a VERY interesting article and I think everyone should read it in it's entirety.

I'm having a hard time figuring out exactly what my opinion is on them as I need to do a little more research, but for now they seem extremely "Interesting".

Thoughts?




posted on Aug, 23 2010 @ 02:23 PM
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duct tape there is so appropriate...can shut her up?....the post is great to read, i had no idea there was hope



posted on Aug, 23 2010 @ 02:33 PM
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Originally posted by ModernAcademia

In Washington, Koch is best known as part of a family that has repeatedly funded stealth attacks on the federal government, and on the Obama Administration in particular.

Thoughts?


I have no doubt that Obama has an equivalent pile of dough backing him as well. It's the nature of the game.

[edit on 23-8-2010 by JohnnyCanuck]



posted on Aug, 23 2010 @ 03:32 PM
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In March 1999, a Koch subsidiary pleaded guilty to charges that it had negligently allowed aviation fuel to leak into waters near the Mississippi River from its refinery in Rosemount, Minnesota, and that it had illegally dumped a million gallons of high-ammonia wastewater onto the ground and into the Mississippi River.[23]

In January 2000, Koch Industries subsidiary, Koch Pipeline, agreed to a $35 million settlement with the U.S. Justice Department and the State of Texas. This settlement, including a $30 million civil fine, was incurred for the firm's multiple oil spills in Texas and five other states going back to 1990.[24] The spills resulted in more than three million gallons of crude oil leaking into ponds, lakes, streams and coastal waters.[25]

In 2001, the company reached two settlements with the government. In April, the company reached a $20 million settlement in exchange for admitting to covering up environmental violations at its refinery in Corpus Christi, Texas.[26][27] That May, Koch Industries paid $25 million to the federal government to settle a federal lawsuit that found the company had improperly taken more oil than it had paid for from federal and Indian land.[28][29]

In 2009, Koch subsidiary Invista agreed to pay a $1.7 million civil penalty and spend up to $500 million to correct self-reported environmental violations at its facilities in seven states.[30][31] Prior to the settlement, the company had disclosed to the EPA more than 680 violations after auditing 12 facilities acquired from DuPont in 2004.[32][33]


Koch Industries on Wikipedia

No wonder they want less government intervention.

Just another example of greenwashing.


[edit on 23-8-2010 by Grey Magic]



posted on Aug, 23 2010 @ 03:34 PM
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I like 'em. They're philanthropists. I say give Obama a poke every chance you get.


+3 more 
posted on Aug, 23 2010 @ 03:53 PM
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reply to post by alonzo730
 


LMAO, philanthropists.


If I make a few Billion dollars, screw over people and nature for generations to come and give a few Millions to some charities that would make me a good person?



posted on Aug, 23 2010 @ 04:03 PM
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Originally posted by Grey Magic
reply to post by alonzo730
 


LMAO, philanthropists.


If I make a few Billion dollars, screw over people and nature for generations to come and give a few Millions to some charities that would make me a good person?


I live in Minnesota and have friends who work at Koch refinery. I think these guys are a joke too. They don't care about the environment or the people either. I think they are just having fun with it, I don't think they would really do anything positive FOR the people, they are, after all, in on the theft of OUR natural resources without directly sharing what they are stealing with the people that rightfully own it by right, We the People.



posted on Aug, 23 2010 @ 04:21 PM
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reply to post by ModernAcademia
 


"lower personal and corporate taxes, minimal social services for the needy, and much less oversight of industry—especially environmental regulation. These views dovetail with the brothers’ corporate interests. "

So in other words, less corporate regulations and benefits for their employees?

They should pack up their bags and go pollute China, we don't need their corporate agenda here.



posted on Aug, 23 2010 @ 04:31 PM
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Originally posted by Grey Magic
No wonder they want less government intervention.


I think you are sending a very bad message here
Less govt. intervention is a MUST!!!

Why do you think everyone is moving business overseas?

You cannot trust govt., you want mobsters to set up more laws and regulations?



posted on Aug, 23 2010 @ 04:41 PM
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Originally posted by ModernAcademia

Originally posted by Grey Magic
No wonder they want less government intervention.


I think you are sending a very bad message here
Less govt. intervention is a MUST!!!



Why do you think that? if it was up to the companies to decide what they can and cant do they would all take the cheap way out... i.e. dumping sewage, polluting the rivers, and not to mention dumping radioactive waste in the desert... AGAIN! The only reason we do not see this as much as we did years ago is because govt stepped in and started fining people who pollute without regard...

I'm by no means saying the govt isn't guilty of this themselves, but how many companies do you know of that would bite the bullet and spend millions on disposal if they weren't required to?



posted on Aug, 23 2010 @ 04:43 PM
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Originally posted by Grey Magic
reply to post by alonzo730
 


LMAO, philanthropists.


If I make a few Billion dollars, screw over people and nature for generations to come and give a few Millions to some charities that would make me a good person?


Both sides have been caught lying numerous times.

I trust not the greedy or the political hacks.

Climate Gate proved the CO2 thing is a farce.

The co-founder of greenpeace even said the movement has
been subverted and is not about real science anymore.

Melting poles on Mars proved it was the Sun.

Pollution is QUITE real thou and things like the Giant Pacific
Garbage patch need real attention.

PCBs in the water and soil need real attention.

Polluters need to be held totally accountable for total clean up
for things like the Bhopal Disaster.

As for politicians if you are caught lying for a lobbyist to
commit fraud on the country then you are guilty of fraud
by proxy.

All these corrupt politicians need to be removed from office
and banned from serving there ever gain.

The companies should have the top decision makers jailed
and their assets seized and auctioned to pay for the damage
they have done.

[edit on 23-8-2010 by Ex_MislTech]



posted on Aug, 23 2010 @ 04:46 PM
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reply to post by ModernAcademia
 





Why do you think everyone is moving business overseas?


They are moving businesses overseas because it's cheaper for them to employ slave laborers than pay an American a decent wage. They can also not pay any benefits, avoid safety and environmental laws. It has nothing to do with hiding from gangsters.

When China has tariffs of over 20 percent on their imports and we have a measly 2 percent on our imports.....outsourcing is guaranteed.

Btw...Koch industries is a TRANSNATIONAL CORPORATION....the very thing that you should be against.



posted on Aug, 23 2010 @ 04:56 PM
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Originally posted by David9176
They are moving businesses overseas because it's cheaper for them to employ slave laborers than pay an American a decent wage. They can also not pay any benefits, avoid safety and environmental laws. It has nothing to do with hiding from gangsters.


Sounds like a "chicken & egg" thing: which came first- outsourcing / relocation overseas or rising rages / corporate regulations? Regulations go into place (in particular due to the EPA) causing a rise in the cost of goods which in turns elevates the cost of living then wages must go up to maintain a consistant standard of living for most. Wages go up, so costs must rise to cover that. Eventually it does become cheaper to outsource than produce domestically, whether goods or services.


When China has tariffs of over 20 percent on their imports and we have a measly 2 percent on our imports.....outsourcing is guaranteed.


So it seems government needs to charge more for things coming in, and tax less for things produced domestically, right?



[edit on 8/23/2010 by abecedarian]



posted on Aug, 23 2010 @ 05:01 PM
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David Koch joked about his good fortune in a 2003 speech to alumni at Deerfield, where, after pledging twenty-five million dollars, he was made the school’s sole “lifetime trustee.” He said, “You might ask: How does David Koch happen to have the wealth to be so generous? Well, let me tell you a story. It all started when I was a little boy. One day, my father gave me an apple. I soon sold it for five dollars and bought two apples and sold them for ten. Then I bought four apples and sold them for twenty. Well, this went on day after day, week after week, month after month, year after year, until my father died and left me three hundred million dollars!”
From the New Yorker article.

He sure knows how to lie doesn't he? What fool is going to buy an apple for five bucks from somebody? Or pay twenty dollars for four? When is the last time anyone on this website bought four apples for twenty bucks?



posted on Aug, 23 2010 @ 05:07 PM
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If you can't pollute the world using the USA to make a few $, just take your corporation to pollute in China.

Though the difference between govt and corporations is small, if the corporations would have full control without government intervention the acid rain would burn your skin off.

You can't become a billionaire without screwing with people and nature.

It's easy for them to pump money in something like the Bill Gates Foundation or any other foundation that has only has to spend 20% of their income to the cause they claim to help.

And all the time those billions that add up to trillions make sure that the FED or ECB has to print money to keep up causing more inflation.

I've seen an interview with Prof David Harvey on BBC lately and he explained exactly the same, there was a time where wealthy people invested their money back into to society, nowadays it's green-washing, so called "philanthropy" and accumulation of more wealth.

There was a time where the boss of a company was satisfied with 20 times as much as his best paid worker, nowadays greed has no limit and the middle class is becoming the lower class.

here is the interview btw.








posted on Aug, 23 2010 @ 05:19 PM
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reply to post by abecedarian
 





So it seems government needs to charge more for things coming in, and tax less for things produced domestically, right?


YES....except for the monopolies in the US....YES.


We tax Chinese goods.....it's a good idea...since we are borrowing money from th em to finance our debt!! Instead of borrowing from them...we tax them. Tariffs would have to be targeted and slowly implemented. We couldn't just jack tariffs up 20 percent across the board in one day. It would be to harsh of a shock to the system.

Yes, people will stop buying as much Chinese junk...but with the added tariffs it gives small businesses here a chance to thrive and others a chance to come into existence.

Of course, none of this will work if we don't enforce anti-trust laws.

We have a worldwide monopolistic capitalism...the direct result of free trade and lack of enforcement of anti-trust laws.

For our economy to grow and be successful we have to produce things...and we have to buy them or in the least....export more than we import.

We are doing none of this.

[edit on 23-8-2010 by David9176]



posted on Aug, 23 2010 @ 05:38 PM
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Originally posted by David9176
They are moving businesses overseas because it's cheaper for them to employ slave laborers than pay an American a decent wage. They can also not pay any benefits, avoid safety and environmental laws. It has nothing to do with hiding from gangsters.


I'm sorry that's only part of the reasons and does not apply to all companies.



According to a Wharton School study, delisting of public companies tripled in 2003 from 2002 (Leuz, et, al., 2004). This act of becoming a private company may be an attempt to save money or to avoid public scrutiny through the SOX Act. The Wharton study found that most companies de-listed their shares in an attempt to avoid the high costs of complying with the SOX Act, with some smaller companies listing costs of as high as $500,000 to comply

www.financialforum.umb.edu...

Also


Complying with Sarbanes-Oxley Costs U.S. Companies an Average of $5.1 Million, According to Korn/Ferry International's 31st Annual Board of Directors Study -

Virtually all (99 percent) of the U.S. respondents said their boards have complied with Sarbanes-Oxley at an average implementation cost of $5.1 million. Four out of five UK boards (81 percent) reported meeting the general independence rules of the Higgs and Smiths Reports, at an average cost of $1.5 million. Similarly, 81 percent of French companies have spent an average of $910,000 to meet the recommendations of the Bouton Report.


www.kornferry.com...



posted on Aug, 23 2010 @ 05:46 PM
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Originally posted by ModernAcademia

Originally posted by Grey Magic
No wonder they want less government intervention.


I think you are sending a very bad message here
Less govt. intervention is a MUST!!!

Why do you think everyone is moving business overseas?

You cannot trust govt., you want mobsters to set up more laws and regulations?



They are moving business overseas for nothing more than 1-2 dollar an hour labor or less, no health care or retirement cost and pollute as much as they want. In the end it is all about the money, always has been always will be.

[edit on 23-8-2010 by frimilden]

[edit on 23-8-2010 by frimilden]



posted on Aug, 23 2010 @ 05:57 PM
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Originally posted by frimilden
They are moving business overseas for nothing more than 1-2 dollar an hour labor or less, no health care or retirement cost and pollute as much as they want. In the end it is all about the money, always has been always will be.

Firstly see my response above, my post right above yours

Secondly please read this:
APEC and America's Dangerous Free Trade Deception
www.economyincrisis.org...

If you think that govt. intervention has nothing to do with everything being made in China then you are seriously in need of an update on current events.

As the years have passed don't you guys see that after more and more regulation nothing has improved?
How much more proof do you need other than years of reality?
I seriously don't get it!!!!

Also see this
www.globalresearch.ca...
If it's happening in Canada be sure it's happening in U.S. too



posted on Aug, 23 2010 @ 07:49 PM
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reply to post by ModernAcademia
 


Is this what you want America to look like?
Koch ind. does. They don't care they probably have estates in Europe that has stricter environmental policies than the USofA.

Here's the reason why companies want stuff manufactured in China.

www.youtube.com...

www.youtube.com...


No EPA and a slave workforce.

This "Limbaugh letter" crap is getting kinda stale.






[edit on 23-8-2010 by whaaa]



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