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Violent Anti-Mosque crowd turns on Black Carpenter

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posted on Aug, 25 2010 @ 12:07 AM
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Originally posted by ollncasino

So far on this forum I have been labelled a racist, xenophobe, bigot, troll and probably a few things I have forgotten.

The ironic thing is, I am in a postion where I could discriminate against Muslims if I were so inclinded. I have never done so, nor will I ever do so. My daughter and wife are freinds with Muslims. I don't mind. They are actually quite nice people.

But still, unless I agree with the mosque (and mass Muslim immigration into the West) I am demonised.

It really is too much.


People sometimes lose sight of the fact that the mob mentality doesn't always go in only one direction... and can't see the mob they're in when they're right in the middle of it.

The "other guys" are a mob, THEY are just standing up for rights... and they themselves do the very thing they rail against - but believe themselves to be justified, of course, so THEIR gang isn't a "mob".

Nice.




posted on Aug, 25 2010 @ 01:18 AM
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Originally posted by nenothtu

Originally posted by ollncasino

So far on this forum I have been labelled a racist, xenophobe, bigot, troll and probably a few things I have forgotten.

The ironic thing is, I am in a postion where I could discriminate against Muslims if I were so inclinded. I have never done so, nor will I ever do so. My daughter and wife are freinds with Muslims. I don't mind. They are actually quite nice people.

But still, unless I agree with the mosque (and mass Muslim immigration into the West) I am demonised.

It really is too much.


People sometimes lose sight of the fact that the mob mentality doesn't always go in only one direction... and can't see the mob they're in when they're right in the middle of it.

The "other guys" are a mob, THEY are just standing up for rights... and they themselves do the very thing they rail against - but believe themselves to be justified, of course, so THEIR gang isn't a "mob".

Nice.


Here is the one thing about mobs, and I have seen sadly on more than one occasion flash mobs form that ended up violently taking lives.

You are either part of the mob, in other words doing what everyone else is doing because they are doing it, or you are acting independently and taking actions based solely on what you feel is best.

When two mobs confront one another we call this War not a mob, other words would be rumble, or gang fight.

What denotes a mob is spontaneous communication, people thrust together by circumstance, encouraging one another to react to circumstance in conjunction with one another.

What denotes a gang is a level of preplanning and a hierarchy and chain of command.

Mobs don’t preplan and they have no hierarchy and chain of command they are a spontaneous reaction to stimuli.

Gangs form to deal with events they envision as likely to happen to counter them, control them or dominate them.

Mobs form spontaneously when like minded people group together to react to an unanticipated circumstance.

I think some people are so convinced of their arguments themselves that they have a hard time understanding why they might encounter strong opposition to them. Why that opposition in fact might be more numerous than they had anticipated, and why what are not sound arguments fail to sway that opposition to their arguments are not something that they can rationally consider.

I think they are more prone to imagine that they are becoming the victim of mob or gang activity especially when they are themselves involved in gang activity. Gang activity includes preplanning and a hierarchy and communication to coordinate activities.

When the same posters show up on threads of a similar topic again and again, this is not a mob.

It is either:

A. Individual posters who are passionate about that topic who are arriving at their positions independently and stating them independently…or
B. Individual posters who are passionate about the topic who while likely arriving at their position independently have formed a gang with like minded people that share their position or come close to sharing their position.

B: Becomes a gang when they coordinate their activities through behind the scenes communication and coordination.

A. Is not a gang even though many posters might share the same position, but are not communicating privately to coordinate how to influence the larger argument through team work and cooperation.

Almost everyone on either side of most issues feels a gang is at play on the other side, because on issues that only have left/right, black/white, up/down, pro/con there are only two choices for people to select from.

So there is about a 50/50 chance both sides will have about the same level of attraction as a result.

Some people love numbers, in other words if polls tell me 70% of respondents are in favor of an issue, then one might reasonably expect 7 out of 10 posters to be in favor of an issue. So if it turns out only 5 of 10 are, or 4 of 10 are, then it might seem like something is amiss.

What is generally amiss is the poll that arrived at those numbers. Most polls are conducted with purposefully leading questions that often result in someone having a very limited selection of choices that can and do tilt the outcome. Selecting only certain types of people as the targeted demographic for the poll can affect the outcome too.

Poll samplings in one demographic might not be similar to the demographic of the environment someone is then choosing to debate in.

In other words a poll conducted where most of the respondents are little old ladies from Iowa are probably not going to yield the same results as the same question posed to young gay men in New York City.

Long and short of it, is that if you come across as someone who is bigoted or racist, or prejudiced or xenophobic it likely is because your individual arguments or even posting habits in general have led people to that conclusion.

Sadly what much of this debate really is about is one group insisting they have no shortcomings while another group has them all, and that one group alone is responsible for any negative attitudes or actions.

If you are actually someone who does think that way, then yes, everything is going to seem unfair to you, and everyone else will be to blame for that in your mind.

There is a huge difference between a mob and a gang, and a huge difference between gangs and individual posters who just happen to think alike.

If you want to upgrade the quality of your life you must first learn to upgrade the quality of your questions.

If you ask poor quality questions deliberately aimed to arrive at a answer you were predetermined to get, it might in fact yield the answer you want to have, but don’t be surprised when someone who is asking much higher quality questions and looking for much higher quality answers doesn’t arrive at the same conclusion.

Pretty simple!


[edit on 25/8/10 by ProtoplasmicTraveler]



posted on Aug, 25 2010 @ 05:59 AM
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Originally posted by I AM LEGION


If you're so worried about that are you worried about this?

gatewaypundit.firstthings.com...

[edit on 23-8-2010 by I AM LEGION]



posted on Aug, 25 2010 @ 06:17 AM
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One thing ive learned in my existence is that if you see a mob or a large protest and you dont want to be involved in such activities you do whatever you can to avoid it!

So this was a pretty loud protest going on...it was already established

This guy walked right through the middle of it??? Come on!

A protest could be about a certain groups dislike of Oreo cookies...Im still not going anywhere near it! Nevermind such a heated protest as a mosque in NYC...



posted on Aug, 25 2010 @ 09:08 AM
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I think that at ground zero they should build a mosque a church and a temple.
If america really is the land of the free then it should have a symbol like that to show its respect to all religious beliefs



posted on Aug, 25 2010 @ 09:23 AM
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[edit on 103131p://bWednesday2010 by Stormdancer777]



posted on Aug, 25 2010 @ 10:03 AM
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Originally posted by nenothtu
I'm not going to fall into the trap of saying "it's the jews!" or "it's the muslims!" or "it's the bankers!" or the NWO, or any of the usual suspects. My personal view on the NWO, TPTB, or whatever you want to call that nebulous "them" is that it's likely a conglomeration of organizations, not just one centralized cabal. Like al Qaida (tm), the NWO (tm) is likely nothing more than a blanket organization for a number of less organized sub-groups. They work together when it suits them, and fight one another when they think no one is looking.


If I was to go conspiratorial on you...With this particular issue I would declare TPTB to be Ruport Murdoch and Prince Saudi Prince Alwaleed bin Talal, the second largest shareholder of Newscorp/Fox News beyond Murdoch...

The prince owns about $2.3 billion in stock with News Corp. While Ruport Murdoch owns 10% of Prince Al Walled bi Talal media company "Rotana".

Meanwhile Fox News has declared the Prince the "Terrorist Funder" of the Mosque, while strangely never mentioning his actual name


Jon Stewart pointed out the irony here..

www.thedailyshow.com...



posted on Aug, 25 2010 @ 10:24 AM
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reply to post by maybereal11
 


This really is all a mass manipulation by the News Media and it's important to remember Murdoch is a Knight of the Realm. As an Equestrian he does serve Rome and is an agent of Rome.

So as usual All Roads do lead to Rome.

So what we have here is in fact what Proto has warned time and time again, Rome using religious differences to ferment controversy and strife amongst and within the masses and orchestrating it at the highest levels of those religions acting together with Rome to keep the masses angry and divided.

For Sir Rupert is not the only one involved with a Roman Title, the Prince is only a Prince by the Grace of God and legally per treaty God is the Pope in Rome.



King Abdullah of Saudi Arabia has met Pope Benedict XVI at the Vatican - the first audience by the head of the Roman Catholic Church with a Saudi monarch.

The Vatican described the private meeting as "warm" and said the two men discussed the presence and hard work of Christians in Saudi Arabia.


BBC News

So why does a practicing Muslim King of Saudi Arabia visit the Pope in Vatican City?

Because All Roads lead to Rome.

It is all simply grand theatre orchestrated at the highest levels of the States and the Religions, orchestrated by Rome to distract, confuse and divide the masses through fear and anger to keep them from focusing in on the more important issues like Rome’s control of the Banking System and the Economies, and the Equestrians and Patricians holding the bulk of the world’s vital resources in their hands.

People love to succumb to these manipulations in part, because their Holy Books are in fact nothing but scripts to act out a great drama filled story as a back drop to life that gives the masses some governable and uniform and exploitable cohesion that frames a reality that can be manipulated and orchestrated by those who do possess and control the vital resources that sustain life.

People fall prey to this story and these scripts because they appear to make an otherwise dull and uneventful and often very lackluster life seem a part of something so much more grander and important than it is.

The people who fall into this trap that relies on superstition, ignorance, and a willingness to avoid logic in favor of instilled self supporting circular logic, to play out their bit parts in this Greek Tragedy all to willingly as a result of these massive manipulations, and they play them out to their continued detriment.

Two thousand years of carnage, with the corpses of those killed through the zealotry these books inspire more numerous enough to stack into a stairway to heaven.

With each participant imagining they are doing God’s work and obtaining absolution in the process, totally oblivious to the manipulation that turns them into often cold blooded, heartless murderers, and thieves, that plunder the resources for the Equestrians.

It has everything to do with man, and nothing to do with any God.

It has everything to do with Rome. The Roman Empire that absolutely has not died, and never will until people want to stop playing out the Greek Tragedy that Rome has laid out for them in the Holy Books of all the faiths, written by man, for Rome, not by God.

Play this game at your own risk.

Preferably on another planet please.

Thanks.



posted on Aug, 25 2010 @ 10:36 AM
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And so the great Anti-Mosque rally ended...on a whimper.

Once again, with good sense and rationality, a majority united humanity won against the false flag event set up by TPTB and their minions to score points on division, capitalise on it and then declare war open for brother to kill brother in and with hate.

Humanity may had won yet again in such encounters, but while TPTB may be inept, over confident of their over rated abilities, they are not without learning capacity to learn, correct their mistakes, adapt and react intelligently the next time round.

So too must we humanity learn, correct our mistakes, adapt and be more aware, and never to under-estimate our masters.

In the meantime, Cheers! to fellow brothers and sisters by Divine Creation!.



posted on Aug, 25 2010 @ 10:37 AM
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reply to post by ollncasino
 




Originally posted by ollncasino
So far on this forum I have been labelled a racist, xenophobe, bigot, troll and probably a few things I have forgotten.

The ironic thing is, I am in a postion where I could discriminate against Muslims if I were so inclinded. I have never done so, nor will I ever do so. My daughter and wife are freinds with Muslims. I don't mind. They are actually quite nice people.

But still, unless I agree with the mosque (and mass Muslim immigration into the West) I am demonised.

It really is too much.



Wow….I might be sympathetic to your “persecution” if I hadn’t actually been reading your posts for this entire thread…

or made the observation that every single post you have made on ATS since joining has been anti-muslim.

Here is some advice on avoiding being labeled a “racist”, “Zenophobe”, “Bigot”, “Troll” etc…

Just taking a look at this thread alone, you certainly have had some ugly things to say in other threads as well..

First….Avoid Fear Mongering
…inferring that we are on the precipice of having Sharia Law instituted in the United States.


Originally posted by ollncasino
How about you let the majority of people who are worried about Sharia law being imposed on their children just get on with it?

[edit on 23-8-2010 by ollncasino]



Second…Avoid labeling others
…such as anyone concerned with preserving minority rights are just “Tree Huggers”


Originally posted by ollncasino

People have been aware of the dangers of Islam for years. This merely flared up due to the fact that our noses were getting rubbed in it.

Its only the tree huggers that have had and still have their heads stuck firmly in the ground that seem to have missed 911.
[edit on 23-8-2010 by ollncasino]



Third…If you are going to advocate changing the constitution to curtail the rights of a given minority group…or advocate a specific immigration policy directed toward a specific minority group

…expect people to see you as a xenophobe or bigot.


Originally posted by ollncasino
The more reasonable conclusion would be that many people no longer agree with the right they perceive to have been given in the constitution to Muslims to build the mosque.

Perhaps the constitution needs ammended. The Sienna poll would suggest that it does.




Originally posted by ollncasino

If the majority of the American people wished the constitution to be amended it would be unconstitutional to block an amendment.



Originally posted by ollncasino
Rights need to be balanced. Also, people have rights taken away by the state every day. Drink driving - lose your license.

No one has an absolute right to a right. What a simplistic argument. I really have lost a lot of respect for your position now.



Originally posted by ollncasino

I also think that Muslim immigration into Western countries should be curtailed.




Lastly if you are going to employ hop-scotch logic to falsely claim Al-Qaeda is synonymous with the entire Muslim faith and it’s followers with the favorite intolerant pronoun “THEY”

…expect people to call your rhetoric what it is.


Originally posted by ollncasino

First they blew up the Twin Towers and killed 3,000 people but I did not speak out because I was afraid of being called a bigot.

Then they arrived by the boatloads but I did not speak out because I was afraid of being branded a xenophobe.

Then they tried to build a mosque beside Ground Zero ....

...they were obviously using our freedoms against us and were clearly trying to rub our noses in it.



posted on Aug, 25 2010 @ 10:50 AM
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reply to post by maybereal11
 





Originally posted by ollncasino
But still, unless I agree with the mosque (and mass Muslim immigration into the West) I am demonised.

It really is too much.


Why did Jews immigrate into Palestine during and in the aftermath of World War II in increasingly larger numbers?

To escape a war torn environment!

So if you want to naturally curtail large scale massive Muslim immigration it would be a good idea to stop aerial bombing of innocent men, women and children in them, leaving highly toxic munitions laying about in the process, like depleted uranium shells, and imposing strict sanctions on regimes being vilified by the world body through Western pressure.

These are the things driving Muslim immigration for the most part, as decent, hardworking, family oriented Muslims seek refuge in Europe and America to no longer be down range in what is a constant and endless war zone against them.

We basically have destroyed the infrastructure of two nations Afghanistan and Iraq, killing possible millions of people and displacing tens of millions of people, and caused trillions of dollars of property damage all based on the alleged actions of 19 Saudi Arabians never proven in a constitutional court of law?

It is our own shortsighted and murderous policies that are actually compelling these massive waves of immigration.

What a shame people continue to have a much greater capacity to consider themselves, than to consider the ramification of their actions.

For every action there is a reaction.


[edit on 25/8/10 by ProtoplasmicTraveler]



posted on Aug, 25 2010 @ 11:03 AM
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Originally posted by ollncasino
So far on this forum I have been labelled a racist, xenophobe, bigot, troll and probably a few things I have forgotten.


Really... Have you been labeled a radical muslim posing as a liberal?

Here is a a summary of your greatest hits from another thread where you tried to discredit any valid arguments with...you must be "one of them" just pretending to be concerned with "rights".

You are what people have claimed you to be...and any cursory examination of your posting history shows this.


Originally posted by ollncasino

Perhaps the answer is that some European countries have up to 10% Muslim populations.

Are many of these 'liberals', in fact, 'wolves in sheep's clothing'?

[edit on 20-8-2010 by ollncasino]



Originally posted by ollncasino
Who are the Muslim apologists on the board?

Its almost as if they had an ulterior motive to pretend they were standing up for freedom.

Perhaps they are a few of the millions of Muslims educated by Europe that wish to bite the hand that feeds them?


[edit on 20-8-2010 by ollncasino]



Originally posted by ollncasino

I have noticed that the majority of apologists for Islam appear to have never actually read any of Islam's teachings.

If they did, perhaps they would change their tune?

Still, perhaps not. Many apologists for Islam are simply Muslims.

Of course, on line, they prefer to pretend to be 'concerned' liberals, but they have their own, obvious agenda.





Originally posted by ollncasino
A Jew attacking Christ but defending Militant Islam, who feints ignorance of the Koran...

Are you really just another Muslim, pretending to be something you aren't?



Originally posted by ollncasino

You are just another Muslim.

Good try though Mr. 'Jew'.

Perhaps, next time, you could try pretending to be Batman?




Originally posted by ollncasino

Yet another wolf in sheep's clothing?

The 'concerned' Liberal mask is wearing a bit thin, so now we have a non religious poster, affiliated to a jewfish website attacking Jesus (as if I care) claiming to be ignorant about the Koran while producing links and quotes from the Koran as quick as a flash.

Something is a bit fishy.



Originally posted by ollncasino


That's the thing. A large proprtion of these outraged 'Liberals' are actually Muslims.




posted on Aug, 25 2010 @ 11:55 AM
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Originally posted by nenothtu
I was under the impression that we were discussing DEMOCRATIC Republics.

Are we going to change horses in mid-stream, or have I misunderstood something that I'm going to owe another apology for?


I re-read your posts. You had stated that we were "delivered a Republic" and I mistakenly thought you were claiming we were a "republic" rather than a Democracy.

I was contending that we are in fact a "Democratic Republic"...which is also true.

You were correct. Apologies. Yes, we were born a Republic and have moved toward Democracy for over 2 centuries now and are at present a "Democratic Republic"..

I did take issue with likening our Democratic Republic in some way to East Germany or Viet Nam...because as we well know, they were Communist states, and more or less "Democracies" in name only..

East Germany for example..


Elections took place at the Volkskammer but were effectively controlled by the SED/state hierarchy, as Hans Modrow has noted. Elections were held in less-than-secret conditions, with voters given the choice of approving or rejecting "unity lists" put forward by the National Front and predetermining the distribution of seats given to the different parties and mass organisations. As was the case in most communist countries, approval rates of 90% or more were routine.

en.wikipedia.org...

When our American "Democratic Republic" starts returning 90% uniform voting...I will be the first to call BS and claim we are no longer a Democracy of any sort.



posted on Aug, 25 2010 @ 12:10 PM
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reply to post by maybereal11
 


I don't watch much TV, and don't watch the news agencies (Fox, CNN, MSNBC, etc.) at all, but am aware of the partisan divisiveness engendered by those who do, and have picked sides based solely on the slants they present.

To declare Rupert Murdoch and the Saudi Prince as THE "TPTB", based, apparently, on their associations with Fox, and other MSM reports, is to engage in more of the partisan bickering that is currently dividing the nation, and I can't go there.

Don't get me wrong, I'm sure they have an involvement up to their elbows, but for the life of me I can't lay it solely at their doorsteps, and ignore the other side of that particular coin (The likes of George Soros and his organs such as Arianna Huffington, both just as guilty of engendering divisiveness as Murdoch).

No, as I said before, this thing runs deep, and roots are shooting off in every direction, not just to the "right". Just cutting down the crown of the tree still allows for suckers to thrive.



posted on Aug, 25 2010 @ 12:16 PM
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reply to post by nenothtu
 


I totally agree. I believe the media is culpable in the division and dissection of the American people. They aren't the PTB though. Just their mouthpiece. The PTB are the Military Industrial Complex(MIC). When Clinton stated that there was a government inside the government that he has no power over, that's the people he was talking about.



posted on Aug, 25 2010 @ 12:31 PM
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reply to post by intrepid
 


Yes, but "MIC" is every bit as nebulous as "NWO", "TPTB" and so on. You can't really eradicate a concept, you have to concentrate on the people behind that concept, as Maybereal has pointed out with his identification of Murdoch.

It's like "the war on drugs" or "the war on terrorism". In order to win such wars, one can't concentrated on either "drugs" or "terrorism", one has to target the purveyors thereof, the people pulling the ropes.

If you target, for example, the Sinaloa Cartel, and run them to ground, that just means that the other cartels are still in business, and only expand their territory to cover what has been abandoned by Sinaloa. SSDD.

The same principle apples against terrorists, and that special class of terrorists known variously as TPTB, NWO, and MIC.

Of interest to me is the way that I believe this nebulous "they" mimics the structure of the infamous al Qaida. It appears to me to be more of an umbrella group for several smaller subgroups who sometimes cooperate, and at other times are at odds with one another. It seems to be more of a DISorganization than an organization.

Another analog would be the structure of the Mafia, during it's heyday.

As we've been discovering, that sort of a disorganization is hard to root out and beat.

I'm telling you right now, though, it's NOT impossible. The tactics in current use, however, will NEVER work.



posted on Aug, 25 2010 @ 12:35 PM
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Originally posted by nenothtu
I'm telling you right now, though, it's NOT impossible. The tactics in current use, however, will NEVER work.


Agreed. Your siggy says it all. It's time for a revolution. I really think it's coming.



posted on Aug, 25 2010 @ 01:08 PM
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reply to post by intrepid
 


In all honesty, I believe it's coming too. Actually, I think we may be IN it now, but sometimes it's hard to see the forest, because all those pesky trees are blocking your line of sight.

What I'm trying to get out there is that we (not you and I specifically, but rather the collective "WE") seem not to be able to even agree on a single label for that nebulous "THEM". There must be a reason for that, and I submit that the reason is that each subgroup of "THEM" is singled out by one person or another, who then reaches the conclusion that their own pet subgroup is the real "THEM", whole and complete in itself.

We can't see the forest because of the trees.

It seems to have been designed that way, just like al Qaida putting itself right up front as a target, while all the little subgroups go on their merry ways, wreaking havoc at will because there's no real spotlight on them. The big dogs are hogging up the spotlight, but they aren't executing any plans.

They are a distraction.

I myself have gone to ground already, and my paper trail has gone cold by now. I CAN be found, and I'm not really hiding, but as of 3 Sundays ago, I found out that they are still 17 years behind me in their search. I had to laugh when I heard they had contacted my ex, who I haven't spoke to (except through cutouts) since 1993.

The Big Dogs haven't noticed me yet, I think. I'm pretty nondescript. Until they do, and concentrate a little more effort, I'll still be hiding in plain sight. When the Big dogs get around to it, if they ever do (who messes with a miskito?) they will have to expose THEMSELVES a little more to draw me out. I doubt that ever happens, because in the grand scheme of things I'm not very important.

I just yak, and spout out off the wall political and military theory. Who cares about the ravings of an obvious lunatic? Unless I get too close to the bone, that is.

Back to the revolution. It won't swing into high gear, with any hope of success, until folks start taking an overview of the forest, and stop butting their heads against singled out trees. Until then, it's just a low simmer. Seems that that might be the way "they" like things to be, no? as long as they can keep tossing out this strawman or that one to the masses, and getting them all worked up and divided over it, ain't nothing going to happen worth note.

I'm a poor man. Been poor most all my life. I was raised in the Appalachian back country, and learned how to be poor early on. Most of my life I've had nothing, and when I DID have anything, I generally gave it away or threw it away. I prefer it that way, since it leaves me with not much to lose but my one and only life, and that's a given to happen some day any way. But I learned to be poor, I know how it's done, and I can do it any old time I want.

I'm nothing more than a dumbassed hillbilly. Who notices anyone like that? Why would that sort of person get targetted anyhow? No, I'm not very high priority, which affords me the luxury to sit back, look at things, and think.

Then I just yak, and spout out this nonsense.

Yeah, I'm just a dumbassed hillbilly, but I still have all of my teeth.



posted on Aug, 25 2010 @ 02:47 PM
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reply to post by nenothtu...and Intrepid
 


The War on Terror (Islamic Extremists),
The War on Drugs (Drug Cartels),
The Culture Wars (TPTB)

All too nebulous a target? Supply or Demand?

If Prohibition was high-grade fertilizer to the Mafia...then what is legalization?

If Extremist groups find thier recruits amongst the impovershed, oppressed, uneducated...folks hopeless and angry enough to strap a bomb to themselves...then how do we deprive them of recruits?

If they are funded by folks that want the US to cease meddling in the Middle East, propping up Saudi Arabia etc...then how do we dry up funding?

Because there will ALWAYS be a number 2 waiting to fill the void as long as the field remains fertile.

The most complex of all is the Culture Wars...I don't even think Ruport Murdoch is a Republican...he is most likely apolitical, but the culture war sure does make him gobs and gobs of money.

The Media outlets aren't neccessarily sinister to me...News is no longer a loss-leader or public service...it is a huge profit center and if you are going to make money in the business, feed a controversy and play to your viewership.

The Media is thus a magnifying glass of sorts these days...inflating controversy, echoing the views of its viewership rather than challenging it etc. for the sake of profits.

But who feeds the Media?...is it the politicians? Is it us? Is it the divisions that have always existed, now being inflated to huge proportions for the interest of political manipulation and media profits?

The water gets muddy for me there...even more so when I try to contemplate a solution.



posted on Aug, 25 2010 @ 03:20 PM
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Originally posted by maybereal11
Wow….I might be sympathetic to your “persecution” if I hadn’t actually been reading your posts for this entire thread…

or made the observation that every single post you have made on ATS since joining has been anti-muslim.


If you can factually refute anything in any of my posts, then please do so. I would appreciate facts, not emotion.


Originally posted by maybereal11
…inferring that we are on the precipice of having Sharia Law instituted in the United States.


People who are worried about Sharia Law being imposed in the USA don't have to feel that the USA is on the precipice of having Sharia Law instituted to be concerned.

By the way, did you know that Sharia courts are currently operating in England?

Revealed: UK’s first official sharia courts ISLAMIC law has been officially adopted in Britain, with sharia courts given powers to rule on Muslim civil cases.

The government has quietly sanctioned the powers for sharia judges to rule on cases ranging from divorce and financial disputes to those involving domestic violence.

www.timesonline.co.uk...

Are British people allowed to be worried now?


Originally posted by maybereal11
…such as anyone concerned with preserving minority rights are just “Tree Huggers”


Racist/xenopbobe/Bigot/Troll versus Tree Hugger

You boys can dish it out but you sure can't take it. My tree hugger comment was to a poster who had inferred I was a racist. He later stated he didn't think I was a racist.


Originally posted by maybereal11
Third…If you are going to advocate changing the constitution to curtail the rights of a given minority group


How is your accusation consistent with my statement



Rights need to be balanced.


It isn't.

You are seeing everything in black and white.

Minority rights must be balanced against majority rights and majority rights must be balanced against minority rights.


Originally posted by maybereal11
or advocate a specific immigration policy directed toward a specific minority group


1.6 Billion foreign Muslims are a minority group? That's a big minority but I see your point.

The following newspaper report derives from a European wide survey on European attitudes to Islam.

EUROPEANS THINK ISLAM IS DANGEROUS

AN “overwhelming majority” of Europeans believe immigration from Islamic countries is a threat to their traditional way of life, a survey revealed last night.

The poll, carried out across 21 countries, found “widespread anti-immigration sentiment”

www.express.co.uk...

Taking the Netherlands as an example:

A poll of June 2004 found that
68% felt threatened by "immigrant or Muslim young people",
53% feared a terrorist attack by Muslims in the Netherlands, and
47% feared that at some point, they would have to live according to Islamic rules in the Netherlands.

en.wikipedia.org...

Muslim population in selected European cities is as high as
25% in Rotterdam (Netherlands),
24% in Amsterdam (Netherlands),
20% in Marseille (France),
17% in Brussels (Belgium),
16% in Bradford (UK) and
while in others, like Paris, London and Copenhagen, the figure is 10%.

en.wikipedia.org...

Did you know that 61% of Muslim Americans are worried about the potential rise of Islamic extremism in the U.S, while 78% of the overall general public is concerned.

Are those 61% of American Muslims worried about the potential rise of Islamic extremism in the U.S racists, xenophobes and Bigots?

Presumably they would be if they posted on here.


Only 15% Muslim Americans under 30 and 6% of Muslim Americans above 30 felt that suicide bombings in the defense of Islam can often or sometimes be justified.

It's the 15% and 6% who felt that suicide bombings in the defense of Islam can often or sometimes be justified that worry me not the peaceful majority who just want to live a quiet life like the rest of us

40% of Muslim Americans accept the fact that groups of Arabs carried out the Sept. 11 attacks.

The 60% who don't would fit in well on this site then.

51% of Muslim Americans were very concerned about Islamic extremism in the world today while 24% are somewhat concerned.

pewforum.org...


Originally posted by maybereal11
Lastly if you are going to employ hop-scotch logic to falsely claim Al-Qaeda is synonymous with the entire Muslim faith and it’s followers


Can I just make it clear that the 'they' is the 15% of Muslim Americans under 30 and 6% of Muslim Americans above 30 who feel that suicide bombings in the defense of Islam can often or sometimes be justified.

The simple problem is, moderate Muslims also contain a proportion of extremists. Its a real (and deadly) problem and I didn't cause it.

The NY police department pointed out that the NY Muslim population has been infiltrated by extremists Muslims.

Radicalization in the West: The Homegrown Threat

www.nypdshield.org...

Is the NY police department racists? They would be if they posted on this site.


[edit on 25-8-2010 by ollncasino]



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