Violent Anti-Mosque crowd turns on Black Carpenter

Originally posted by MY2Commoncentsworth
reply to post by nenothtu

 

Originally posted by nenothtu
How is the constitution involved?

They drag the Constitution into it because they have run out of counter arguments. And many who advocate the Constitution only do so when it suits their purpose. Many are anti-American, and do not pay taxes, etc. etc.

[edit on 23-8-2010 by MY2Commoncentsworth]

Wow! What irony all in the same paragraph!

Second line.

reply to post by hadriana

Originally posted by hadriana
Bush didn't even want to let our WAR DEAD be buried properly.

Can you provide a reputable source for that assumption?

Classy..... Muslims are the new Niggers of America it would seem, home of the Free & Land of the enslaved

reply to post by Miraj

Originally posted by Miraj

Originally posted by MY2Commoncentsworth
reply to post by nenothtu

 

Originally posted by nenothtu
How is the constitution involved?

They drag the Constitution into it because they have run out of counter arguments. And many who advocate the Constitution only do so when it suits their purpose. Many are anti-American, and do not pay taxes, etc. etc.

[edit on 23-8-2010 by MY2Commoncentsworth]

Wow! What irony all in the same paragraph!

Second line.

I fail to see any irony in those statements.......

Care to explain?

You call out one group of people as being out of options..

And then call then call them Anti-American.

reply to post by Miraj

Originally posted by Miraj
You call out one group of people as being out of options..

And then call then call them Anti-American.

That's just my opinion. I believe that some of those who are in support of the mosque are anti-American. When posters are anonymous, it is hard to tell the real motives behind the statements sometimes.

It would seem to me that real anti-Americans would come down on the side of the mosque more than on the side of the opposition, which 70% of Americans are on.

But that is only my opinion.

reply to post by MY2Commoncentsworth

They drag the Constitution into it because they have run out of counter arguments. And many who advocate the Constitution only do so when it suits their purpose. Many are anti-American, and do not pay taxes, etc. etc.

I hear this as a lot as a thinly veiled form of personal attack.

First lets be clear, the Constitution is the Constitution. It speaks for itself and when it doesn't 9 Justices of the Supreme Court speak for it.

However in relation to taxes, Federal Income Taxes are in fact unconsitutional.

The States were supposed to fund the Federal Government through voluntary contribution to prevent the Federal Government from usurping the authority of States and dictating to states.

Federal Taxes could only be levied in time of war, for wars legally declared by Congress.

When the war ended direct taxation of the citizens was supposed to end too.

Our fore fathers wanted a weak central (Federal Government) and no standing army.

Today we have a all powerful Federal Government and a standing army, that stands at great cost to the tax payer's in 154 countries around the world.

Our fore fathers did not want an empire either.

In part because of how Empires over extend them selves in this fashion at a huge cost to the citizens in taxation and then usually collapse when that cost becomes too staggering.

With the U.S. 14 Trillion Dollars in debt trying to maintain what truly is a military empire, to say that we are over extended is an under statement.

What having such a huge military presence at tax payer's expense does result in, is the U.S. often using Gun Boat Diplomacy to dictate policies in other countries and effect regime change, and to take sides in foreign conflicts that Americans must then pay for in dollars and lives.

Our fore fathers did not want us choosing sides in foreign conflicts.

Part of the tension between the Muslim world and the United States is regarding how the U.S. Conducts Gun Boat Diplomacy and enforces dual standards through choosing sides in conflicts.

So we do in fact create both enemies and anomisity towards the United States in this way.

All of this at the taxpayer's expense.

Federal Income Tax except during time of war is unconstitutional and the amendment to the constitution changing that was not properly ratified.

So in fact not paying Federal Income Tax is in fact upholding the Constitution.

Likewise in regards to the Census being conducted by the Department of Commerce.

While the Constitution mandates a Census every ten years it does not mandate it be carried out by the Department of Commerce.

Congress has unlimited power to regulate interstate commerce, and because the citizens are counted through the Department of Commerce this makes you part of the Interstate Commerce System and allows them to pass what would be unconstitutional laws except that they pertain to commerce, which they have made you an integral part of through conducting the Census through the Department of Commerce.

This is only being done so Congress does not have to uphold the Constitution and can pass laws that favor big corporations and businesses (Commerce) at the expense of the citizens (you).

Not participating in the Department of Commerce's Census does not prevent the Government from counting you, which they do through a number of other programs including social security, drivers licenses, medicare, and passports.

What the Constitution is designed to do is protect you from government excesses more than anything.

Not abiding by unconstitutional laws, and not participating in things that are designed to enable the government to not abide by the constitution is not anti-American, it is in fact very American, because ultimately it is the citizens who created the Constitution, and the Citizens that have to protect it from being abused.

Which is why so many people are failing in regards to the seperation of church and state.

A sound argument is a sound argument regardless of the charachter of the person making the argument.

Facts don't cease to become facts because you have assissinated the charachter of those who speak them.

Originally posted by yenko13
Tolerance for a man with a skull cap and a attitude at a anti Mosque rally , I think thats a joke , Would a KKK member get Tolerance at a Louis Farrakhan pro Mosque rally ???

Greensboro, NC, summer of 1979. Morningside Homes neighborhood. The Communist Party, USA, held a "Death to the Klan" rally. While the vast bulk of the event organizers were white communists, they chose to hold an inflammatory rally, with an inflammatory name, in a predominantly black neighborhood, and used the minorities as human shields.

Unfortunately, a contingent of Klansmen showed up, just to demonstrate that they weren't intimidated in the least. It's a free country. The rally was allowed, because of freedoms, and the Klan was allowed to show up, also because of freedom. So far, so good. It was all legal, and on the up and up. No problem.

yes, it was legal - but it was also intentionally provocative, and not very bright, when it comes right down to the common sense of it all.

Insults were thrown from the communists to the Klansmen, then rocks.

It escalated from there.

Shots were fired. Five people were killed out right.

All so that a bunch of agitators could ruffle the feathers of another bunch of agitators. They made their statement, all right. Some paid the ultimate price for that lapse of judgment. Some were killed only because others wanted to use them as human shields, for a propaganda coup. Some were killed because they thought they could get away with baiting, and nothing would come of it.

ALL were killed because common sense was absent that day.

No one ever served a day of time over it.

So yeah, you have a point. Tolerance is in frequent short supply when deliberately provocative actions are taken. Only those who either die or run the risk of it can ultimately figure out if their one and only life was truly worth baiting a sleeping bear. I have no sympathy for those who beg for death, and then get it.

My sympathies lie with those who are used as human shields unwittingly, pawns in a chess game not of their making.

There are ALWAYS some of those innocents in the mix.

Originally posted by Digital_Reality


Our leaders have done this to us. They are turning us against each other and its sickening. Americans are like a pit bull in a cage right now. They keep poking us and poking us and now we are ready to attack anyone. I hate to see this. We should be sticking together and keeping our wits about us during these times.

Agreed. But the leaders doing the poking aren't ones that can be voted out. Unfortunately, some of those pit bulls look at Limbaugh, Beck, Hannity, etc, a bunch of overpaid disc jockeys, as their leaders. But don't realize, they are just being led around by the nose in circles, whiles these guys make millions and attract millions with their dogfights.
I just have one question for all those blowing a gasket about this mosque in NY. Why haven't any of you, or your leaders made a peep about the fact that Muslims have been praying at the Pentagon's chapel since 2002, gathering every day at 2 p.m. around the time of the second of five prayers Muslims are supposed to offer daily.
A prayer room inside the Pentagon used by Muslims? You know the Pentagon, the building that actually was hit by a plane (or whatever) on 9-11. Not a few blocks away, but inside the building. And it was put there in Nov of 2002. Just a little over a year after 9-11. No bullhorns, no signs. Where were the "Leaders" and their poke sticks then? Where was the outrage at Bushco for such insensitivity. And here are all these people upset about Muslims praying a few blocks from one of the 9-11 sites.
Then again to get upset about this mosque in the first place you have to swallow the OS hook. Building 7 anyone...anyone...anyone.
This mob harassing this guy, probably on his way to work, "antagonizing" the crowd with his blackness and hat.When I see this, it just makes me shakes my head anymore. I just can't believe how brain dead, and how easily manipulated some of my countrymen, and women have become. The GOP needs to change their mascot from an Elephant to an Ostrich. I know it was one of those Tea rally things, but lets be honest. Most of the Tea Partiers are Republicans who are just too ashamed to call themselves that anymore, and think the Tea Party thing makes them a "Real Patriot".
As a side note. do you Ostrich Party folk actually think you're being funny or whitty when you use terms like Libtard, Hopey Changey, or whatever phrase you all parrot from Rush and Sarah?
Wow you really know how to pick your leaders guys. My condolences to this ground zero worker who was attacked by all the Ostriches at that zoo.

Originally posted by Romantic_Rebel

What does the Ku Klux Klan and the Nation of Islam have to do with this?; which the Nation of Islam is not consider a part of the Islamic religion.

www.muhajabah.com...

Funny how they're only "muslims" when the "real" muslims are trying to wheedle them into doing something stupid, like Muammar Khadaffi tried back in the 80's, with his call for an uprising of Farrakhan's "American Musllims" in response, I believe, to the Gulf of Sidra incident.

Yeah, it's ok to consider them muslims at THOSE times!

Originally posted by reevesdomain

I am open to alternative views, as long as they are of your own. I am just having trouble going against the first amendment on this thing as I would any other. Help me see it in your perspective, please.

I'd be happy to, but first I'd like to know why you think it's a First Amendment issue at all. I'm afraid I'd have to get a handle on your thinking there in order to formulate a proper response to your query as to my perspective.

" Islam is not a religion nor is it a cult. It is a complete system.: “Islam has religious, legal, political, economic and military components. The religious component is a beard for all the other components.

Islamization occurs when there are sufficient Muslims in a country to agitate for their so-called ‘religious rights.’ " source - avideditor.wordpress.com...


You know what i completely agree with the above statement and 9/11 showed me everything i need to know about islam. Jihad on you. Do you seriously wonder why I should hate muslims? I also love this racist slant the muslims are taking because in the end I believe it will work against all other minorities because blacks and mexicans wont be able to play this card. So keep it up your doing a great job.

i've seen and heard worse at:

football games
basketball games
soccer games
etc.

we have all seen the riots breaking out after a favorite team loses.

riots and vandalism in new orleans etc.

people yell the same crap everywhere.

pretty clear it was a setup...

that said it was a pretty peaceful event unlike the g20 protests etc.


you people can scream anti mosque haters blah blah blah all you want.



quite frankly your not an american till someone shouts a racial slur and any other derrogatory words.


to me it just means the butt kissing and the politcal correctness is being kicked to the wayside.



you people want to assign blame here blame the imam for starting this to begin with

for being insensitive and opening old wounds that have not healed.



[edit on 24-8-2010 by neo96]

This is so text book pitch forks and mob, it makes me wonder if it could have been some agent provocateurs. I mean, these people are acting so disgusting, it's hard for me to believe it's real.

Was it at all possible for them to protest without attack the black man who they assumed was Muslim? Really sad.

Originally posted by nenothtu

Originally posted by reevesdomain

I'd be happy to, but first I'd like to know why you think it's a First Amendment issue at all. I'm afraid I'd have to get a handle on your thinking there in order to formulate a proper response to your query as to my perspective.

Sure, though I usually only come on here to observe and learn. Most are highly more informed on here than myself so I could be very wrong in my assumptions. And I don't mean to bash or offend anybody or their personal beleifs with this.

I don't call it a first amendment issue because it is legally being challenged or because this particular religious group is being denied practice or infringed upon by the goverment. In fact they are not. I think of it as a first amendment issue because, from what I see is that the first amendment is being upheld and yet the American public seems to be painfully aggrieved by it. The debate I believe is whether or not that grievance is justifiable. Not in emotions, but rather in fact and rational. I personally do not see it as so. The first amendment is working here and doing what it is meant to do. I'am trying to see both sides and empathise with the other viewpoint, but I'am not hearing any rational reasons on why this community center should not be built at it's current location. Muslims did not orchestrate 911. So what is the rationale?

That is my question as well. I wholeheartedly respect the right for everyone to form and express their opinions, to protest anything and everything so long as they are not violent or otherwise unlawful, and to question anything. That's not only legal in America, but in my opinion it's to a large extent human nature.

But it would help me personally if I could better understand the position of those so stridently opposed to this community center's planned existence two blocks away from ground zero. I don't understand the rationale for the opposition, personally. (That doesn't mean I don't acknowledge and respect people's right to it.)

I do understand that if certain assumptions are made (that Islam as a whole seeks to undermine what they feel are American values, that all Muslims everywhere agree with and support terror, etc.) then the presence of anything at all to do with Islam near ground zero could cause a strong emotional reaction; anger, offense, insult, even sadness or fear. But what I don't understand personally is why those assumptions are being made in the first place.

I have experienced first hand that all Muslims are not Wahhabists, militants, terrorists, or in any other way inherently opposed to the so-called American way of life. The Muslims I encountered were patriotic American citizens who just so happened to be Muslim. They were proud of both their American citizenship and their faith, and from a broad range of political leanings, just like the members of any other religious group.

So if 1) not all Muslims are terrorists, and 2) there is no proof that this community center has any connection to terror, what is the rationale for opposition to its presence? Note that I am not seeking to invalidate people's right to feel the way they feel or express their opinion. If they don't have an answer to this question but still oppose its existence, that is their right as American citizens, and I respect it despite personally disagreeing with it.

I just want to understand it better. Surely understanding is always a good thing?

reply to post by I AM LEGION


Perhaps it would be a good idea to allow a Mini mosque about the size of a car, I doubt if anyone could take offense to that.

this really is sad, you'll never hear a muslim calling jesus a pig, in fact if you read the historical text's, muslim's on the whole have been far move tolerant of other religions than christians. (look at the crusades) I'm neither a christian or muslim. But I have lived in the middle east and europe so rightly or wrongly I feel I have a fair understanding of the issue

reply to post by k0mbination


Just for facts Muslims believe in Jesus.
I like your reply.

I'm very afraid that the "reasonable doubt" of him being a muslim is the only thing that kept this guy alive, or out of the hospital at least..