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Violent Anti-Mosque crowd turns on Black Carpenter

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posted on Aug, 23 2010 @ 10:16 PM
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Originally posted by yenko13
Lets build a A six hundred 66 foot cross with Christ on it in all the muslim Countries we invaded see how they LOVE us baby , That would end this debate quick , BUILD THE BIG CROSSES FORGET THE MOSQUE


Look's like the Church has beat you to it.
en.wikipedia.org...

Christianity in Afghanistan is more controversial.
en.wikipedia.org...




posted on Aug, 23 2010 @ 10:19 PM
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Originally posted by antonia

Originally posted by yenko13
Tolerance for a man with a skull cap and a attitude at a anti Mosque rally , I think thats a joke , Would a KKK member get Tolerance at a Louis Farrakhan pro Mosque rally ???


Are people going to be attacking black men in wave caps next? Yesh, it's a skull cap.

www.underarmour.com...|Google&campaign=gbase&CAWELAID=128374617

OMG THE MUSLIMS ARE HERE SKULL CAPS!


Of course some on this site may never have seen anyone in urban-style clothing. If you aren't around the culture, it would be easy to mistake a do-rag for a Muslim skull cap.

That being said, the same excuse cant be extended to the New York protesters as they live in an urban environment. Provided they are actually locals and not bussed in "protesters."


[edit on 8/23/2010 by clay2 baraka]



posted on Aug, 23 2010 @ 10:19 PM
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Originally posted by Romantic_Rebel

Originally posted by yenko13
Lets build a A six hundred 66 foot cross with Christ on it in all the muslim Countries we invaded see how they LOVE us baby , That would end this debate quick , BUILD THE BIG CROSSES FORGET THE MOSQUE


Look's like the Church has beat you to it.
en.wikipedia.org...

Christianity in Afghanistan is more controversial.
en.wikipedia.org...


I will now send a nice size donation to my Brothers over there thanks



posted on Aug, 23 2010 @ 10:20 PM
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reply to post by yenko13
 


Are you curious in understanding the Nation of Islam better?



posted on Aug, 23 2010 @ 10:23 PM
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reply to post by 5 oClock
 


Congratulations on buying the bull#. This video proves that most Americans are clueless idiots that will bite on sensationalism.

Bunch of $h33pl3!



posted on Aug, 23 2010 @ 10:25 PM
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Originally posted by yenko13

Originally posted by Romantic_Rebel

Originally posted by yenko13
Lets build a A six hundred 66 foot cross with Christ on it in all the muslim Countries we invaded see how they LOVE us baby , That would end this debate quick , BUILD THE BIG CROSSES FORGET THE MOSQUE


Look's like the Church has beat you to it.
en.wikipedia.org...

Christianity in Afghanistan is more controversial.
en.wikipedia.org...


I will now send a nice size donation to my Brothers over there thanks


Weak argument.

It's like someone in 1943 justifying the beating of a Jew stateside, using the argument: "Well in Germany they kill Jews, here we only beat them."

Weak argument or not it does serve to deflect from the issue of some group's bad behavior.



[edit on 8/23/2010 by clay2 baraka]



posted on Aug, 23 2010 @ 10:27 PM
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Originally posted by MY2Commoncentsworth


They just do not understand what you have just addressed.

There are those who support the Mosque who have real concerns about possibilities of violence against Muslims, and these are legitimate concerns, and they should be addressed. But there has been no violence at the anti-mosque protests.



Ah. I'd have to say myself that the possibility of violence against muslims in this matter is a real one, and cause for concern. Can't argue that, at all. Violence in general, however, is already covered by other, more mundane, laws, so it shouldn't be necessary for them to invoke the Constitution unless, as you say, they simply have no other argument, and are grasping at straws.

That makes sense. Violence is illegal already in the town where I live. If I'm walking down the street, it's illegal for anyone to visit violence upon my person unless I have been violent towards them first, in which case it is I who have broken the law.

Common sense probably enters the equation at this level, though. If I walk down the street here in a rented klansman halloween costume, I'm pretty sure I'd have violence visited upon me. Doesn't make it right, but I'm reasonably sure that would be the outcome all the same. I've never tested that theory to see what the outcome would be, so I can't really be 100% sure about it.

Common sense can cure a lot of problems before they start. This one could have been cured before it started by simply not instituting a provocative edifice in a provocative place.

Maybe these folks should try to find an argument that involves common sense, rather than trying to hammer the Constitution in where it doesn't fit.



posted on Aug, 23 2010 @ 10:32 PM
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reply to post by nenothtu
 


I couldn't agree more with your previous post neno. And this discussion has gotten way out of hand with the name calling and the rhetoric.

It's time to have a civilized discussion on these very important issues.



posted on Aug, 23 2010 @ 10:41 PM
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I didn't see anything violence in this video, any misinterpretations could have been caused by the man with the white [seemingly] tagiyah walking around a little provocative [just like the other people]...That is what protests are about, confronting each other without violence...I am glad the people can hold these protests, non-muslims are not welcome on the "holy Ground" of Mecca let alone organising things like these.....



[edit on 23-8-2010 by Foppezao]



posted on Aug, 23 2010 @ 10:43 PM
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Originally posted by reevesdomain

Can you tell me if you've ran into any other victims who are against this? And what do they say about it?


I will try to answer this as best I can ... mindful of what I noted before in respect of no one having the right to speak for the totality of the families of 9/11 victims.

Of the twenty funerals I attended, I keep in touch with approximately 15 people (6 families) who lost a family member on that day. Some we speak once a year, some I am very close to.

I can only speak of my conversations with those specific families, and what they object to most is what I pointed to in my previous post. Namely politicians, warmongers, religious zealots, and any interest group that claims the honor and memory of their loved ones as a transparent pretext to push their agenda. They rightfully see such actions as cruel, cynical, and a betrayal.

It is in my and their opinion an incredible insult to even speak of them as some sort of identifiable group of people. They are regular folks, with different beliefs, religions, political ideologies, some still mourn intensely, some want to move on ... some are for this mosque, some aren't, and some couldn't care less. They couldn't care less because the memory of their loved ones has been 'hijacked' so many times by so many groups that they just have lost all faith.

Like I said, the most important thing to take from this is to never ever take seriously the words of anyone who claims to speak on their behalf, for that should always be one's first clue that they are peddling lies by definition.

How many people have died since in the name of these folks?
Look at what is happening now with the mosque.

So if one is for or against this mosque it is their right ... doing it on the basis of the 9/11 victims is a treacherous premise and it is wrong.

Again, I cannot and will not speak for anyone other than those I communicate with ... but I hope I have, at least in part, answered your question.



posted on Aug, 23 2010 @ 10:43 PM
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Originally posted by yenko13
Lets build a A six hundred 66 foot cross with Christ on it in all the muslim Countries we invaded see how they LOVE us baby , That would end this debate quick , BUILD THE BIG CROSSES FORGET THE MOSQUE


So you acknowledge that your religion is a sham... you use just to "1-up" another. Why even bother? Actually your stupid childish idea offends me and any other true Christian.



posted on Aug, 23 2010 @ 10:47 PM
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reply to post by MY2Commoncentsworth
 


Yeah, I'm still back on page 10, trying to catch up and keep up all at the same time, but it does appear to be getting pretty heated. Veiled name calling, out right name calling, odd accusations, it's all flying so thick that I had the urge to duck.

It would probably be better if some of them would firmly grab themselves by the scruff of the neck and get control of themselves BEFORE trying to type their thoughts out.

The way it's going at the moment, it looks more like a mass altercation in a pit bull ring, or perhaps just a roiling mass of rabid ferrets.

I keep jumping back from the monitor to make sure none of the foam flecks get me, and NONE of that is either helping or hurting the building of this mosque. None appears to be very reasoned, and so rational debate on the issue has nearly come to a grinding, screaming, screeching halt.

The oddest part is, BOTH sides are doing precisely the same thing, verbally, as what the mob at the protest is accused of having done the the carpenter. Strangely, both sides seem to think that it wasn't handled properly, and yet they aren't demonstrating how they think it SHOULD have been properly handled.

Or ARE they?

[edit on 2010/8/23 by nenothtu]



posted on Aug, 23 2010 @ 10:47 PM
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In the United States of America, people who have acquired property and building permits have the right to build on said property, so long as there is no proof (note: proof means real, legal evidence, not suspicion based solely upon religious affiliation or profiling, or rampant, politically-fueled speculation) of planned, threatened, or committed acts of violence or other unlawful activities to be facilitated by the building. They also have the right to practice and express their religious and political beliefs and opinions.

In this case, that right to build on their property includes a cultural center including plans for a swimming pool, basketball court, culinary school, and a Muslim prayer space (not even technically a mosque) two blocks away from ground zero (which is a national monument and so would bar the existence of any religious institution there anyway if I understand correctly, so in actuality "ground zero mosque" is quite the misnomer unless I'm mistaken.)

In this case, the religious beliefs being practiced in accordance with those beliefs are those of one, by all outward appearances at least, moderate form of Islam.

In this case the opinions being expressed by the Imam in accordance with his right to do so, include the denouncement of terrorism, the condemnation of all violence in the name of religion, the opinion that the foreign policies of the United States played a hand in circumstances leading to the 9-11 attacks (a view, incidentally, shared by many here on ATS I should point out) while still condemning the attacks, and a neutral opinion as to whether or not he regards Hamas as a terrorist organization while still condemning violence and terror. Those are views held by many people, Muslim and non-Muslim alike. And in America, people have the right to express their views.

Likewise, those suspicious of this Imam, of Islam in general, of this community center's purpose, of its proximity to ground zero, or anything else imaginable, have every right to express that suspicion. They have the right to express and espouse opposition to the spread of any religion, including Islam. They have the right to the opinion that Islam - in its entirety, including every member of every sect of Islam, everywhere in the world - has as its goal world domination and the establishment of a Caliphate. They have the right to hold and express the view that Islam is not a peaceful faith, but rather one of terror and of violence. They have the right to protest and to picket and to raise their voices in anger and passion as they seek to oppose the existence of this center.

And last, but certainly not least, I have the right to feel - and to express - deep sadness and dismay at all of the above, because what I want more than anything, is peace, tolerance, understanding, communication, and love between all people, all faiths, and all nations. I have the right to say that even though I am not a Muslim, I have visited mosques as part of my quest to better understand the world's various faiths, and to report that I was welcomed cordially and invited to watch and to learn as much I wished. In fact it was explained to me that it was required that nonbelievers be allowed to observe and to learn about Islam. I was not called an infidel, or told that I was "unclean" and therefore had to leave. I was not subjected to attempts to "convert" me to Islam. The people present there were just like me - human beings trying to find peace and direction in their lives. And I have the right to express confusion at the lack of picketing and protest against the mosque that has been nearby already since before the WTC even went up, and still remains there to this day. I have the right to express my shock and disappointment at suggestions by some lobbyists that Muslims everywhere be denied the right to obtain building permits. I have the right to wish we were what I consider to be better than this.

And I say all of this with utmost respect for everyone else's opinions. Because for me personally, that is what it means to be an American citizen. Or at least it once did. I hope to see a day when it does again.



posted on Aug, 23 2010 @ 10:52 PM
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It sickens me to see how intolerant Americans have become. But I find it funny when people on ATS like to be bigoted towards Muslims, yet they still think that 9/11 was an inside job. What's the reason for the hatred then?



posted on Aug, 23 2010 @ 10:54 PM
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I don't think it proves ANYTHING.
Some people say bad things.
That doesn't mean that whole crowd is bad or the ideas of that crowd are nasty or whatever.

all it prives to me is that people don't want the darn mosque there, so build it somewhere else.

BIG DEAL.

This whole thing is making me sick. Who really cares?
I don't really care. I'm NEVER going to NYC if I can help it.



posted on Aug, 23 2010 @ 10:55 PM
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Their having an anti mosque demonstration and this guy goes in there dressed up looking like a Muslim and says he's not a Muslim... and probably the fake security guy askin him to leave, the guy verbally dissin Muhammad, that woman following him around with the “mosque supports Hamas” sign that is shown prominently throughout the entire footage and the guy filming the vid are probably “the black carpenter’s” accomplices

The establishment knows how to make cheap youtube vids too... so just because it looks like a private-grassroots filming don't mean squat.




[edit on 23-8-2010 by soleprobe]



posted on Aug, 23 2010 @ 10:58 PM
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reply to post by AceWombat04
 


That was a great post Ace......

I wish that I would have said that.



posted on Aug, 23 2010 @ 11:04 PM
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reply to post by SuperZepto
 


Organized religion makes otherwise intelligent people go retarded.

And yes, I include Muslims in that statement as well as Christians. This whole situation has arisen because one group of insensitive retards decided to build a Mosque so close to the site of a heinous crime, knowingly angering a totally separate, yet equally idiotic group of insensitive retards.

Short buses for everyone


Cheers...



posted on Aug, 23 2010 @ 11:08 PM
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Originally posted by jonjanderson
reply to post by I AM LEGION
 


The only fair and sensitive thing to do is share Meca Saudi Arabia with a Jewish Synagogue and Christian church next to the Kaaba.


I dont understand...do the x-ians now see ground zero as some sort of christian shrine? Some icon of self rightous hate?

See, as a average american, I see it as what happens when religion enters into little minds.
I have far more in common with the people that died that day...I am a IT guy and a intellect...and guess what that building was housing...a bunch of IT people, some businessmen, and intellects...it was NOT a religious ground, it was a globalization and trading center for international commerce...so all the putrid religions on earth should get the eff away from the grounds to begin with...keep your silly wargods out of it, it is NOT a icon to be worshipped...find your golden calf somewhere else.

Otherwise, build what you want and everyone stfu you flipping redneck throwbacks.

I think its time the athiests get off their arse and start protesting any and all religious centers in a 10 block radius...the space god followers of all flavors are nuts.



posted on Aug, 23 2010 @ 11:09 PM
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Originally posted by SuperZepto
It sickens me to see how intolerant Americans have become.


Are you KIDDING me?

Americans haven't BECOME anything. Look, I'm pagan, I lived through the city of Atlanta turning on Ravenwood in the late 80's. I've been called a devil worshipper, had my son called that...heard my ex boss boast about how he fired this girl that said she was wiccan....he wasn't going to work with weirdos like that.

You maybe just don't KNOW dude. There's no telling how many tens of thousands or MORE people are pagan, but live in the broom closet.

Yes Virginia, there are people that are SO TERRIFIED of religious persecution here in America that they feel they have to keep their religion totally secret.

It isn't paranoia either. I had friends come home to their nice Atlanta suburb a few years back to find Bible pages taped all over their house and SUFFER NOT A WITCH TO LIVE written on their storm door.

I've got a friend right now that is moving because her neighbors put large YOU'RE GOING TO BURN IN HELL signs on their front porch facing her home on an almost daily basis.

I really don't want to hear it. Muslims at least are able to state that they ARE Muslim without fearing for the safety of their children.

Heck celebrities diss pagans HORRIBLY and no one really cares, except maybe pagans.



Bush didn't even want to let our WAR DEAD be buried properly.

[edit on 23-8-2010 by hadriana]

[edit on 23-8-2010 by hadriana]



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