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Alien hunters 'should look for artificial intelligence' says Seth Shostak

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posted on Aug, 25 2010 @ 01:19 PM
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Originally posted by Spangler
...
I'm not sure what that would accomplish — let's assume we do that and detect something on radar. What are the requisites in order to classify that ‘something’ detected as not being from Earth? ...

One indicator would be if it was seen to be arriving from or travelling to outer space. That would narrow down the possibilities considerably. At least we would know that it was an object which could actually travel in space.




posted on Aug, 25 2010 @ 01:20 PM
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reply to post by Spangler
 



Really? I thought I was just being rational and realistic about the weight of the evidence you propose we'd gather.


its not up to me to devise experiments for ufo belivers to prove their claims. Its up to those making the claims. The claim is there are objects in our airspace. Go get them on film/video/radar/infrared . prove they actually exist.


This suffers from the same shortcomings existent videos or pictures of alleged ‘craft of unknown origin’ do — it still doesn't prove it's not a secret aircraft or some other unacknowledged project.

but it would be proof that there is something to the claims people make about what they see and its a hell of alot more than you got now. Infact footage like that would be front page worldwide.


[edit on 25-8-2010 by yeti101]



posted on Aug, 25 2010 @ 01:26 PM
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The gap between radio tech and AI seems to be quite small for us, so while it would be an assumption, it would be a pretty good assumption that aliens would develop AI before they managed to learn interstellar travel.



posted on Aug, 25 2010 @ 01:28 PM
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Originally posted by Spangler

Originally posted by Harte
I'm not going to get further involved in pointing out ignorance and paranoia in other areas of ATS. I have a job and a life

Oh but rest assured that it's only you — the rest of us don't have lives or jobs, so we can, then, stay on ATS all night and day refuting the posts you personally object to.



LOL

Okay point taken.

Now, everybody pick one insane post.

Ready?

Refute!

Harte



posted on Aug, 25 2010 @ 01:46 PM
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Originally posted by Tearman
One indicator would be if it was seen to be arriving from or travelling to outer space. That would narrow down the possibilities considerably. At least we would know that it was an object which could actually travel in space.

I agree that certainly it would narrow down the possibilities considerably, but that could still be some secret, but terrestrial, craft capable of traveling to and from space. We don't know.

If we're just talking possibilities here then, I believe, we already have evidence of something unknown which has been satisfactorily narrowed down to what it's not — it's those 5 or so percent of cases, in which, although there's credible evidence and witnesses, couldn't be explained.

What yeti — and people like him — are asking for is ‘proof of aliens’ really. And no amount of visual evidence, in my opinion, will ever be enough to determine that.



posted on Aug, 25 2010 @ 02:00 PM
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Originally posted by yeti101
The claim is there are objects in our airspace. Go get them on film/video/radar/infrared . prove they actually exist.

We must be talking about different things. Are you actually saying you're not convinced UFOs exist? Let me remind you, again, that UFO means, simply, unidentified flying object and nothing more. I already explained why I think denying the existence of unidentified flying objects is nonsensical, but take it from our very own Mr. Oberg if you prefer:


Originally posted by JimOberg
Nobody is in any position to "prove" that "UFOs do NOT exist" or that (for one typical theory) "alien civilizations can NOT be visiting Earth." Such arguments are only opinions without logical foundation.



posted on Aug, 25 2010 @ 02:05 PM
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reply to post by Spangler
 


yes people see objects they cant identify. The question is are any of these objects new to science? Its possible there are as yet undiscovered natural phenomenon which could account for some ufo reports. Sprites were photographed for the first time in 1989. We certainly dont know everything about our atmosphere

but somehow i feel thats not what the ufo community are looking for.

also you present a dilema. If your objects are unidentified how do you know what to look for?


[edit on 25-8-2010 by yeti101]



posted on Aug, 25 2010 @ 02:43 PM
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Originally posted by Spangler

Originally posted by yeti101
I think you'll find he's looked into alot of ufo cases. Theres just nothing substantial in them regarding the ETH. Thats what he's interested in ET intelligence.

How do you know he has looked ‘into alot of ufo cases’? Where and when has Shostak expressed this? All I've read and heard so far by Mr. Shostak points to the contrary.
I honestly don't know how many cases Shostak has really looked into. but I can answer the question about "Where and when has Shostak expressed this?" , it was on the Larry King show "abducted by Aliens" on August 19, 2009, the topic of this thread:

Larry King, Abducted by Aliens (tonight 9pm est)

Seth Shostack said he was open to SETI and UFO researchers reaching out to each other since they're looking for the same thing but with different methods.


SHOSTAK: ... I almost consider myself a part-time UFO investigator. Larry, every day I get e-mails, phone calls and -- well, telephone calls and e-mails from people who are having difficulty with aliens in their personal life, who have seen things. I can't think of a single example where I thought, this is a hoax. They've seen something. It's worth investigating. The evidence is just not there to convince people.
I've never seen that side of him before, I think that's different from his past rhetoric.


Originally posted by GrisGris
reply to post by gortex
 
Could some of the smarter ATS peeps explain how this shift would effect the way SETI would change the search?

I assume they would keep their current equipment, but change for what they listen. How does ai 'sound' different from what they are currently looking?
That's sort of explained in the article. Normally we wouldn't focus on looking at hot young stars because of the amount of time it takes biological life, then intelligence, to evolve, if Earth is any example.

But for an AI lifeform, hot young stars are worth looking at, according to Shostak:

www.bbc.co.uk...

Dr Shostak says that artificially intelligent alien life would be likely to migrate to places where both matter and energy - the only things he says would be of interest to the machines - would be in plentiful supply. That means the Seti hunt may need to focus its attentions near hot, young stars or even near the centres of galaxies.


[edit on 25-8-2010 by Arbitrageur]



posted on Aug, 25 2010 @ 03:05 PM
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Originally posted by yeti101
yes people see objects they cant identify. The question is are any of these objects new to science? Its possible there are as yet undiscovered natural phenomenon which could account for some ufo reports.

They could be, but that fact remains that, now, we don't know and we won't know the answers to these questions unless we try to investigate these objects, whatever they may be.



but somehow i feel thats not what the ufo community are looking for.

The ‘ufo community’ is not some monolithic group, just as the scientific community isn't — there are some who don't think much of string theory, and there's others whose whole career is centered on it.



also you present a dilema. If your objects are unidentified how do you know what to look for?

I'm not even sure we — as individuals and civilians — can go look for this unknown thing, whatever it may be. As of now the best we can hope for is for some event to occur, hopefully get multiple forms of verifiable and credible evidence and witnesses, and after analysis of that information, and trial by elimination, none of the known explanations fit.



posted on Aug, 25 2010 @ 03:19 PM
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Originally posted by Arbitrageur

SHOSTAK: ... I almost consider myself a part-time UFO investigator. Larry, every day I get e-mails, phone calls and -- well, telephone calls and e-mails from people who are having difficulty with aliens in their personal life, who have seen things. I can't think of a single example where I thought, this is a hoax. They've seen something. It's worth investigating. The evidence is just not there to convince people.

He has never come across a single example of something he thought was a hoax? I'm intrigued by this inconsistency in Shostak's remarks.

He has articles on the SETI website and SETI radio blog outright dismissing the UFO mystery, making the usual cheap jokes and perpetuating the ridicule factor. Here's an example:

Some people are convinced that extraterrestrials are visiting Phoenix, presumably because they like the feel of wide-open spaces or have a penchant for Tex-Mex cuisine. ...

These were the original "Phoenix Lights" (which sound like a cigarette brand, but aren't.)

I guess Mr. Shostak's position on the UFO phenomenon, like the phenomenon itself, is a mystery.

[edit on 25-8-2010 by Spangler]



posted on Aug, 25 2010 @ 03:25 PM
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Originally posted by Spangler
He has never come across a single example of something he thought it was a hoax? I'm intrigued by this inconsistency in Shostak's remarks.
My interpretation is that he's referring to the e-mails and telephone calls he personally gets. He's not talking about the obvious hoaxes on youtube, etc.

That was a side of him I haven't seen in earlier dialog either, so he may be trying to soften his tone a little bit and reach out to people that are looking for the same thing he is, alien life, but just looking in different ways.



posted on Aug, 25 2010 @ 04:14 PM
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Originally posted by gortex
Seth Shostak seems to me to have a real problem with the idea of Extraterrestrial biological entities .
For years now I have watched and listened to reports by Shostak that Aliens may not be out there but he and his team will keep scanning the heavens looking for radio waves just in case they are.


"If you look at the timescales for the development of technology, at some point you invent radio and then you go on the air and then we have a chance of finding you," he told BBC News. "But within a few hundred years of inventing radio - at least if we're any example - you invent thinking machines; we're probably going to do that in this century. "So you've invented your successors and only for a few hundred years are you... a 'biological' intelligence." From a probability point of view, if such thinking machines ever evolved, we would be more likely to spot signals from them than from the "biological" life that invented them.



Dr Shostak says that artificially intelligent alien life would be likely to migrate to places where both matter and energy - the only things he says would be of interest to the machines - would be in plentiful supply. That means the Seti hunt may need to focus its attentions near hot, young stars or even near the centres of galaxies.


www.bbc.co.uk...

www.bbc.co.uk...



Well, I think that it would be an enormous waste of time and money for Seti to go looking near hot, young stars or even near the centres of galaxies for such kind of existing artificially intelligent alien life when as I would believe what Philip J. Corso said here about that [which I personally do] it is already here.




According to Corso, they determined that the craft was a biological spaceship, functioning in conjunction with a crew of EBE’s (Extraterrestrial Biological Entities). They were biological robots created through advanced genetic engineering, clones designed to withstand the extreme conditions of space travel. These EBE’s were able to drive their starship through a particular neural interface, whereby they could connect with the craft, becoming an almost integrated part of it.


www....(nolink)/corso-legacy/

The interesting subject in this thread fits exactly in this thread.

www.abovetopsecret.com...



[edit on 25/8/10 by spacevisitor]



posted on Aug, 25 2010 @ 04:55 PM
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I think that life will eventually have to become completely non-biological.

All stars and planets will naturally disappear - on a long enough time line - so for life to survive it will have to become autonomous and self-sustaining. I'm not sure that's possible in a biological medium. In fact, I know it isn't.

Life will have to move from the biological to the technological. Sounds weird, but life will always "find a way".



posted on Aug, 25 2010 @ 05:39 PM
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Originally posted by DoomsdayRex
Wow...that is impressive. Your own biases and arrogance has lead you to read in something that was not there. Here you are claiming that Shostak does not "even entertain" the idea aliens exist, when the article states the exact opposite. He quite clearly says that aliens may be building machines to explore the galaxy, machines that overcome their biological limitations.

Why are you incapable of comprehending this?


Where did I mention Seth Shostak? Why are you incapable of comprehending this?



posted on Aug, 25 2010 @ 05:55 PM
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Originally posted by Riposte
Where did I mention Seth Shostak? Why are you incapable of comprehending this?


A comment on a thread about Seth Shostak in reply to a post about Seth Shostak, echoing the attitude of the post. You are equivocating.



posted on Aug, 25 2010 @ 05:57 PM
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Originally posted by Spangler
I guess Mr. Shostak's position on the UFO phenomenon, like the phenomenon itself, is a mystery.


Perhaps it is that his position is more nuanced than you want to cast it.



posted on Aug, 25 2010 @ 08:21 PM
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Don't pull the bull over me. Seth Shostak's been nothing more than a reputable nonsense.
I told him so in appx 1995 where then unknown beings were picked up by his group, operating at: Arecibo radio telescope located in Arecibo, Puerto Rico, whose 305 m (1,001 ft) dish is fixed in the ground. It was designed by engineer Bill Gordon (d. 2010).

Seth gets money for his stagnant observations. Soon Seth'l get 0 funds. Actually when that occurs, I want Seth to repay all the no-ebe; no Saucers he has deliberately mixed and corralled the American people on.

Decoy



posted on Aug, 25 2010 @ 08:24 PM
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Originally posted by Decoy
Don't pull the bull over me. Seth Shostak's been nothing more than a reputable nonsense.


Why do you think it is nonsense that aliens we meet may be synthetic?



posted on Aug, 25 2010 @ 08:57 PM
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Seth Shostak, what a dude! This is another one of his publicity stunts, his a low life and no one should take him seriously. He thinks he is the next best thing since slice bread, but his got the brain of a child(maybe less). How can you listen to a moron who is so certain that extra terrestrials cannot and have never visited earth (And he claims this passionately), but his out there looking for them or evidence of. Looking for signs of Artificial Intelligence is not his original idea it has been suggested many many times before by others.



posted on Aug, 26 2010 @ 01:14 AM
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Quote from Harte:
LOL
Okay point taken.
Now, everybody pick one insane post.
Ready?
Refute!
Harte

-----------
Dang it; this is crazy!! Do you have any idea how many crazy post there are on ATS!

* satisfied his one refute is done* No more homework, please!

Grisgris



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