Israel denied.

reply to post by ArcAngel


so why are they persecuting the palestinians. why do they build armed forts deep in their future state, why do they have barbed wire surrounding gaza, why do they have sniper towers placed like guard towers shooting any palestinians carrying a broom stick. why are they shooting white phosphorus and depleted uranium ammunation with a complete disregard for civilians, why do palestinians have to be humiliated by passing through 20 checkpoints to get a bag of milk, if there is milk because the israelis are starving the palestinians. i'm pretty sure thats a war crime. but since they have their u.s. lap dog vetoing any resolution that even has the word israel in it, they continue to abuse and break every international and human law they can get away with. give me a break. if all these things where done to the israelis they'd be crying anti-semitism and holocaust to every government, people and country in the world.

Originally posted by BASSPLYR
so since china and russia aren't concerned about iran nuking other nations than the threat most likely isn't there. This to me tacitly points to the US and isreal as the conspirators with an agenda against iran making them into a threat they aren't

hypothetically-It's like me doing martial arts in the park. just because I have the ability to kick your ass doesn't mean I have any want to kick your ass. so what rational would the other person have in trying to get me arrested or something unless it's part of their agenda to do so. I'm not bothering you by learning to defend myself or better myself, so what would be the rational in just you seeing me as the boogie man when 90 percent of the people at the park don't. not sure if I communicated my analogy well but you guys get the gist.

Continuing your analogy:

Hi. I'm Mr. Ivan Russia. You are Mr. Achmed Iran. I've heard you say over and over that you intend to kick Mr Yitzhak Israel's ass, and kick it hard. Probably want to kill him. You've also been talking a lot of smack about Cpt. America. Well, it just so happens that I don't really care WHAT happens to either of those gents, or you either, for that matter. After all, you've not made any threats against ME.

But the thing is, you've got a nice watch. I LIKE that watch. So one day, I'm walking my dog in the park, and I see you over there practicing your martial arts. Looks like you might have MEANT it when you promised those ass kickings. Mr. Israel and Cpt. America sure seem to think so. They're looking a bit worried over it, but can't really get the cop on the corner to do anything about it.

Now, while I'm stopped for my dog to do his business, I'm watching you go through your moves, same as the other two guys are, but I ain't NEAR as worried about it, since you haven't threatened ME. I couldn't really care less.

But you've got that nice watch that I like.

While I'm watch your evolutions, I notice you're doing it a bit wrong. I know this because I'm former Spetnaz or something. I notice that if you do it THAT way, it's likely that any potential ass kicking is going to go entirely counter to your plan, so I walk over to you and say "hey, you're going about that wrong. Gimme that nice watch, and I'll show you how to deliver that ass kicking instead of taking it, like your current course will lead to."

So then, for a price, I help you get your ass kicking gear in order. what do I care about it? You haven't threatened ME!

Besides, I got a nice watch out of the deal, and I'll still have it even if you DO make a miscue and get yourself all graunched.

I don't think Russia's or China's fears or non-fears, their concerns or lack thereof, should guide US or Israeli conduct...

[edit on 2010/8/22 by nenothtu]

Originally posted by ressiv

Originally posted by Alda1981
Not that i agree with anything israel is doing but saying Iran is the most modern ME country.... lol... the people arrested mother and son and held them in police station to make sure they are not couple. they stone women for being RAPED by men. instead of stoning the man at least. # this. where is modernism? they are #in savages and dictators. just because israel is # doesnt mean their enemy is good. the way i see it both of them are #ed up countries.

mwaaa for 3 times shop-lifting an choclade bar in the US U will have an live sentence in prison...
not really the same comparisment ... but stilll.....

Not here. That, I believe, is restricted to The People's Republic of Kalifornia, not the real US.

reply to post by downtown436


It's nice that you are so happy that Israel has been "denied." Unfortunately for all of us I don't think it is going to change anything. The conflict in the middle east is really about Religion - oil and all of those other issues are just talking points. The conflict has been going on for centuries and will continue far into the future.

The conflict has remained at a "simmer" rather than "boiling out of control" only because outside forces (USA, UN, Russia, EU, etc.) have been using their influence to hold the temperature down. This balancing act is in danger of failing in the near future. Both sides are only going to "play the game" with outsiders as long as they think it is in their best interest. If the balance tips too far to one side (either one) the deal is off.

President Obama is playing a dangerous game by pressuring Israel so hard while asking little from the Palestinian side. I fear that he overestimates not only the US influence over Israel but his own intelligence and abilities as well. One of the few things in the middle east that is not in dispute is that Israel will do whatever it takes to defend itself. The minute Israel determines that the US has abandoned them they will take the path they see as best for them - not anyone else. Don't for a second think Israel will not use its nuclear weapons against its enemies.

The horrible, bloody, awful standoff we have now may be the best we can hope for.

Originally posted by xXxSpaceGhostxXx
To say that Iran has nothing but peaceful intentions with that reactor is a joke they have been unveiling more and more weapons over the past months they have already said that they want to wipe israel from the face of the earth so to say their intentions are peaceful is nothing more than ignorant rhetoric coming from people that dont know what their talking about and havent done research into the matter why would they continue to unveil new weapons if their intentions were so peaceful?

Uh, maybe as a deterrent, because Israel and the US have been talking smack against them for quite a while now.

Once again, IRAN HAS signed the Nuclear Nonproliferation Treaty.

ISRAEL HAS NOT.

The US currently has Iran just about surrounded with troops on all sides.

And speaking of not knowing what you are talking about, as has already been stated, Iran did not threaten to wipe Israel off the map.

Israel doesn't respect the US either, and they have actually acted against us, their so-called friend, in the past.

Israel has threatened the whole world with nuclear weapons, and is working on developing gene-specific biological weapons.

Israel's Arsenal of Mass Destruction

Today, estimates of the Israeli nuclear arsenal range from a minimum of 200 to a maximum of about 500. Whatever the number, there is little doubt that Israeli nukes are among the world's most sophisticated, largely designed for "war fighting" in the Middle East. A staple of the Israeli nuclear arsenal are "neutron bombs," miniaturized thermonuclear bombs designed to maximize deadly gamma radiation while minimizing blast effects and long term radiation- in essence designed to kill people while leaving property intact.(16) Weapons include ballistic missiles and bombers capable of reaching Moscow, cruise missiles, land mines(In the 1980s Israel planted nuclear land mines along the Golan Heights(17)), and artillery shells with a range of 45 miles(18). In June, 2000 an Israeli submarine launched a cruise missile which hit a target 950 miles away, making Israel only the third nation after the U.S. and Russia with that capability. Israel will deploy 3 of these virtually impregnable submarines, each carrying 4 cruise missiles.(19)

The bombs themselves range in size from "city busters" larger than the Hiroshima Bomb to tactical mini nukes. The Israeli arsenal of weapons of mass destruction clearly dwarfs the actual or potential arsenals of all other Middle Eastern states combined, and is vastly greater than any conceivable need for "deterrence."

Israel also possesses a comprehensive arsenal of chemical and biological weapons. According to the Sunday Times, Israel has produced both chemical and biological weapons with a sophisticated delivery system, quoting a senior Israeli intelligence official, "There is hardly a single known or unknown form of chemical or biological weapon . . .which is not manufactured at the Nes Tziyona Biological Institute.")(20) The same report described F-16 fighter jets specially designed for chemical and biological payloads, with crews trained to load the weapons on a moments notice. In 1998, the Sunday Times reported that Israel, using research obtained from South Africa, was developing an "ethno bomb; "In developing their "ethno-bomb", Israeli scientists are trying to exploit medical advances by identifying distinctive a gene carried by some Arabs, then create a genetically modified bacterium or virus... The scientists are trying to engineer deadly micro-organisms that attack only those bearing the distinctive genes." Dedi Zucker, a leftist Member of Knesset, the Israeli parliament, denounced the research saying, "Morally, based on our history, and our tradition and our experience, such a weapon is monstrous and should be denied."(21)

Above quotes from this article.

Knowing that, wouldn't Iran be foolish not to take steps to protect itself when they can see they are being targeted?

sezsue

Originally posted by sezsue


Once again, IRAN HAS signed the Nuclear Nonproliferation Treaty.

ISRAEL HAS NOT.

Not quite sure what signing the NPT has to do with it. Could you elaborate?

Are you saying that because Iran has signed a "Non-PROLIFERATION" Treaty, that it's OK for them to proliferate and break their agreement?

Or are you saying that since Israel has NOT made that agreement, they must somehow be bound by promises they never made?

reply to post by ArcAngel


have you ever asked why these people have been pursacuted by the whole world ?

i wounder if the everyone hates me thing says more about their veiw of the world than the worlds veiw of them

i dont condone what happened to them but at the same time this dosent justify what they do to others

for the world to work no one people can put their needs or rights above another (especially if useing past gravances is their excuse)

how does one holocauste excuse another

xploder

reply to post by sezsue


why dont u go back a page or two and look at the news article that blazer posted quoting the leader of iran saying exactly that well wipe them off the map

Originally posted by xXxSpaceGhostxXx
To say that Iran has nothing but peaceful intentions with that reactor is a joke .....

The Bushehr reactor is a light water reactor, with the fuel rods supplied by Russia enriched to less than 3.5 %. Not suitable for weapons production. Whilst the plant is closely supervised by the Russians and the International Atomic Energy Agency. The spent fuel rods must be returned to the Russians to ensure their participation.

Originally posted by xXxSpaceGhostxXx
........ they have been unveiling more and more weapons over the past months

With the ever louder tattoo from the drums of war, it would be simple negligence on the part of Iran not to ready itself in preparation of an attack ..... which Israel openly threatens whilst America plays the passive aggressive role .

Originally posted by xXxSpaceGhostxXx
....... they have already said that they want to wipe israel from the face of the earth

You cannot be serious ...... that canard ?

followed by this ........

Originally posted by xXxSpaceGhostxXx
.......ignorant rhetoric coming from people that dont know what their talking about and havent done research into the matter

wow.

Originally posted by xXxSpaceGhostxXx
why would they continue to unveil new weapons if their intentions were so peaceful?

See answer two.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The Iranians are no angels either- all nations scramble for leverage , they are no different in that respect ....... but we don`t need to repeat the mistranslation of what was originally a Khomeini quote relating to regime change .A phrase oft repeated by an American administration.

Denial of the WW2 Genocide is a crime in many nations ..... falsely accusing someone of threatening Genocide : an internet past time.


This particular confabulated factoid should be wiped from the pages of time.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Originally posted by rufusdrak
come on man this is CIA/Mossad we're talking about. Look how dirty they are just check out what they tried to do to Assange. I guess 2 failures in one week for CIA/Mossad. LOL! OWNED

But they will not give up. They are the dirties satanic forces in the world and they will begin trying to cook up new tricks just like they did with the WMD lie that led to the invasion of Iraq.

Yeah, unfortunately we will probably get false flagged in the morning.

Originally posted by Sky watcher

Originally posted by downtown436
I am really glad that the Iranian reactor is fueled.


The crimes comitted by Israel against her neighbors are way, way more depraved than a few women and girls getting executed. We are talking about thousands and thousands of people including kids that have been bombed by Israel in just the last couple of years.

The propaganda has gone too far.

Tell us that when a dirty bomb goes off in L.A.,N.Y. or Israel and thousands more die.

Israel responds to acts of war and aggression like every other nation on earth would and have.

Your Propaganda has gone to far. Its more like ignorant banter. You should study the facts instead of preaching these outright LIES!!

If a dirty bomb or nuke goes off in a major American city, the first thing I will think is that CIA/Mossad false flagged us.

Originally posted by nenothtu

Originally posted by sezsue


Once again, IRAN HAS signed the Nuclear Nonproliferation Treaty.

ISRAEL HAS NOT.

Not quite sure what signing the NPT has to do with it. Could you elaborate?

Are you saying that because Iran has signed a "Non-PROLIFERATION" Treaty, that it's OK for them to proliferate and break their agreement?

Or are you saying that since Israel has NOT made that agreement, they must somehow be bound by promises they never made?

Sorry, I would have responded earlier, but all of a sudden, I started having computer problems, imagine that! I guess TPTB doesn't like what I have been saying.

No, I'm not saying either of those things.

I'm saying by signing the agreement, Iran has agreed to only use nuclear power for peaceful purposes.

By NOT signing the agreement, Israel has made it clear that they will continue to create nuclear weapons, and threaten to use them (blackmail) to get their way, as has been documented according to the article I quoted.

Did you even look at that part of my response, or read the article I referenced, or did you just prefer to ignore that?

[edit on 22-8-2010 by sezsue]

Originally posted by groingrinder
Comparison of rocket damage to Israel and rocket damage from Israel.

One side shoots two hundred dollar home made in your garage rockets. The other shoots million dollar made in the USA's finest munitions factory rockets. Who is David and who is Goliath?

Yeah, Lebanon had nearly all its bridges bombed by F-16's with smart bombs in the 2006 attack.

Gaza got fire bombed by incendiary munitions like Japan in WWII, in 2008.

Originally posted by wutone


I guess you are glad that the every nation in the middle east will want to go nuke as well.

Then I guess you are glad that Israel will probably increase (by tenfold) their nuclear arsenal and make the Samson option that much uglier. Oh and btw, if Iran can get nukes, I guess no one will complain if anyone else increases their own stockpile.

The middle east isn't some happy place filled with rainbows with the evil Israel spoiling things. The Islamic nations have been fighting each other for centuries. Stick nukes with governments that listen to crazy religious leaders and millions of people are going to die. Most of them will be Muslim. Many will be Iranian.

Honestly I think there would be an end to the hostilities in the ME if every country had a lot of nuclear weapons.

-Bullies would be silenced.
-Peace would be mandatory, or the consequences would be 100%.

Nuclear weapons, and the fact that the Soviets had them is the only reason there wasn't a war between the U.S. and the Soviet Union. MAD

Originally posted by Haydn_17
reply to post by downtown436

 

Iran should never have had permission to build Nuclear facilities, they want to build there own bomb, they want to be responsible for the destruction of Israel.

Hamas attacked Israel first, they hide in schools and hospitals and when Israel fire back the left wing socialists come out en masse.

So Israel has nuclear power facilities, and nuclear weapons. Israel is the one threatening Iran, and you say Iran shouldn't be allowed permission to get a nuclear power plant.

WTF??

Who should a nation ask to get a nuke plant? Did Israel ask anyone?

No, they just did it.

Just like we did.

Just like France did.

Just like England did.

Just like China did.

Just like North Korea did.

Just like Canada did.

Just like Russia did.

Just like Pakistan did.

Just like India did.

Ect, ect. ect.

So when Israel build their first bomb, did anyone threaten to bomb their nuclear reactor?

Did anyone tell them not to do it?

Originally posted by downtown436
I am really glad that the Iranian reactor is fueled. Maybe, just maybe we can have an end to the seemingly endless barrage of pro-zionist, warmongering propaganda aimed at drumming up support for yet another middle eastern war.

I am so sick of hearing estimates on time frames for the bombing of Iran's nuclear facilities by people with hatred, and hypocrisy dripping from their teeth.

The thing that is the most depraved is the constant stoning, and beheading videos aimed at making muslims look sub-human. As a regular American, I am no fan of muslims. However they are actual people, with actual regular lives, and especially Iran, may be the most civilized country in the ME. Yes, stoning/beheading women is depraved BTW.

The crimes comitted by Israel against her neighbors are way, way more depraved than a few women and girls getting executed. We are talking about thousands and thousands of people including kids that have been bombed by Israel in just the last couple of years.

The propaganda has gone too far. Israel and the MSM who support her have a serious credibility problem right now. Which is kinda good as I believe the Internet is slowly but surely killing Cable news, and as the idiots who watch it are starting to die off en masse, they are getting desperate to monopolize the internet, as their grip on information is slipping.

Anyway, I guess I just wanted to express my hope that the Iran/Israel BS is now over.

Dear OP:

Your ignorance of history aside, what is the purpose of this thread?

The Anti-Israel camp couldn't get enough of this Iran nuke fueling thing while it was around, and now that it's over, you're going to pretend you all took the high road?

Puh-lease. Anyone with a BRAIN knew Israel wasn't going to bomb Iran, and it wasn't us "pro-zionist warmongers" who were the ones constantly braying about it in the forums. It was the Anti-Israel crowd making all the noise and coming up with all the wild predictions and presumptions.

See, you just don't like Jews. You think they're different somehow. And because you assume that anyone involved in the Israeli government MUST BE an inhuman, warmongering reptile, it makes PERFECT SENSE to you that they would bomb Iran, or launch a pre-emptive nuclear strike, all the while laughing uproariously at the slaughter.

Woops, didn't happen. Now you're going to clear your throats, adjust your ties, and sit down after one last "Heee-Haaaaw." Pretending all the while that you weren't just pissing your pants with anticipation for them to give you a reason to hate them that much more.

Originally posted by xXxSpaceGhostxXx
reply to post by sezsue

 

why dont u go back a page or two and look at the news article that blazer posted quoting the leader of iran saying exactly that well wipe them off the map

I would have looked at it except, no link!

Gee, wonder why.

reply to post by RedBird


I have no problems with Jews. I have some serious problems with the Israeli government. And I have some serious problems with idiots trying to start new wars each day for no better reason than to keep the military industrial complex running, and controlling energy supplies.

[edit on 22-8-2010 by downtown436]

Originally posted by xXxSpaceGhostxXx
reply to post by sezsue

 

why dont u go back a page or two and look at the news article that blazer posted quoting the leader of iran saying exactly that well wipe them off the map

What news article ? I only see a quote and no link .


I see where it comes from now . A blog . From :

ROBERT SPENCER is the director of Jihad Watch, a program of the David Horowitz Freedom Center...

The Author :

www.jihadwatch.org...

The Article :

www.jihadwatch.org...

No surprise there then .

Aren't there rules against quotes from blogs contained within a news quote and no link ?


[edit on 22-8-2010 by Gun Totin Gerbil]

Originally posted by sezsue

I'm saying by signing the agreement, Iran has agreed to only use nuclear power for peaceful purposes.

"Peaceful" is in the eye of the beholder. A CIA agent once told me that one of his charges had died. I asked him how that happened, and he said "heart attack". Curious, I noted that the man had appeared to be in fine physical condition, and the individual just replied that "all deaths are heart attacks. You don't die until your heart stops beating."

Perception is everything, like the old saw about "Peace through superior firepower." "Peaceful" is in the eye of the beholder.

By NOT signing the agreement, Israel has made it clear that they will continue to create nuclear weapons, and threaten to use them (blackmail) to get their way, as has been documented according to the article I quoted.

That's one take on it, and I can respect that. My own take is that by not signing the treaty, Israel has made the statement that they will not be bound by a pact that could well prove suicidal to themselves, and at the very least could lead to the coercion of Israel by parties with fewer scruples about living up to their contracts.

Did you even look at that part of my response, or read the article I referenced, or did you just prefer to ignore that?

Yes, I looked at that part of your response, hence the question. No, I didn't read the article referenced, because I think people should be able to express their viewpoints in their own words, which you have now done admirably. Thank you.