TO all members of the Anti-US crowd

reply to post by sakokrap


Well Mr. o'Krap, let's try this from another perspective. Your fathers may have sacrificed for what you now have; as a matter of fact we have a nice long discussion about that here:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

But so have I and it sounds like you have not. Irony, hypocrisy, or what has become typical entitled behavior? The Declaration gives you rights? The Declaration is a piece of inked parchment. Words on paper give you nothing. The actions of men do. In your case, the actions of other men do. I am forced to conclude based upon your tone and responses that if it was you instead of these men placed at this moment in history I would be drinking very expensive tea at 3 pm every day.

You have invested so much energy into hating this country; actually used the argument of European, Chinese, and Indian education and quality of life. It sounds like you already have some travel destinations in mind. I have actually been to China, have friends from India, and friends stationed in Europe. This is probably below your typical snootiness but you may want to read up on a concept of the grass being green on the other side of the fence. But you should definitely leave and go to China or India. Hope you like lots of people...lots and lots of people…also diseases…and something about not very much food. They also tend to be far less accepting of people ripping on their country, government, communities, religion, everything else. Definitely China. That is where you should go.

By the way; I don't really do subtle so let me put it to you bluntly. There are problems in this country for sure; are they insurmountable? Not remotely. Are people like you contributing to the problem with you deft pissing and moaning? Absolutely. Is it fair for one from my upbringing and perspective to actually say that the quasi intellectual dogma spewed from your mouth is tantamount to treason? Yes. Am I willing to concede a single point of your American bashing tirade? Not a chance. Would this country be better off without you and your kind? Magic 8 Ball says that it is certain.

[edit to add]

I didn't answer your final question. The legitimacy of America? That, to me, is a profoundly stupid question. What is the legitimacy of any country?

I have a question for you Krap. Why are you here? Can’t afford to leave? Enjoy the country side? Canada too expensive? Seriously, why? Why all this hate and discontent? You say you are older so that at least implies to me that you have been here hating everything around you and doing nothing about it but more complaining for quite some time. That’s kind of insane. Cool thing about America; lots of meds. Get some…lots.



[edit on 26-8-2010 by TheWrongStuff]

reply to post by TheWrongStuff


Sir, I believe you're grasping at straws with regards to perspective. Again I state to you, that the topic is not how wrong you are, nor how smelly of a krap I am.

Your person and my person are not the thread's topic. I hope you will join me in keeping on task discussing what Dr. Jay intended with this thread. Complaints about Amerika, global policing, human rights, Amerikan hegemony, crimes against humanity, women's issues abroad, Amerikan democracy.

Unfortunately, I believe you have misread many of my statements if you believe you'd be drinking expensive tea. I endeavor to write in a manner that perhaps will enhance your better understanding. Please forgive me if it has been difficult to follow my writings.

Unfortunately, most of your post is mostly about what you think I feel/think/invested in Amerika.

I believe you are having a hard time dealing with the issues, and instead are trying to make you and I the topic of this thread.

Your assertion of India and China is also off topic to some degree. I believe you are trying to make Amerika look good by comparing it to some place else.

You continue by stating that Amerika isn't perfect. Do you recall that I mentioned this previously?

YES / NO Amerika has its problems, but isn't awful like the Nazis / Bolsheviks. "

Rather than addressing my opinions or examples, you direct your focus upon your guess of who I am without responding to what I commented.

You also neglected to respond to my summation of hate-speech by people of Kosovo, Sudan, Nazi Germany, and instead make the statement:

Are people like you contributing to the problem with you deft pissing and moaning? Absolutely... spewed from your mouth is tantamount to treason? Yes. Am I willing to concede a single point of your American bashing tirade?... Would this country be better off without you and your kind? Magic 8 Ball says that it is certain.

Obviously, you do not support free speech, reasonable search and seizure, secure in one's person, individual rights (9th amendment), and likely not my ability to bear arms in defense of your Kristal Nacht (2nd Amendment).

Because you do not support the Bill of Rights, a part of the US Constitution (I took the oath, as every soldier does), then your nomination of Treason has unknown grounds. Which bring me to...

Rather than addressing a valid question, "Where is the legitimacy of Amerika" you retreat to personal vilification.

Truth is- you do not have an answer.

We both know it is not the US Constitution (as you have evidenced support for initiatives to the contrary of the Bill of Rights... oops. As you plainly said regarding your direct opposition to the Bill of Rights).

With all of that fire in your belly about these undesirables. Outside of what Adam Sutler says, what grounds in law would you seek to justify a case of Treason? (I put an easy question maybe you can answer- it will help get to the question of legitimacy).

Again sir, the reasons I am here (wherever that may be) is off-topic. Again, I believe you are blatantly diverting the discussion because you lack the simple answers to simple questions.

I believe you have lots of emotion behind your expressions. I believe you lack substance, as I have pitched you some easy home-run pitches, and you have thus far not stated anything other than personal stuff.

Let's stop about the you-and-I bro. Rather, let's keep on topic and discuss what Dr. Jay intended his thread for.

Complaints about Amerika, global policing, human rights, Amerikan hegemony, crimes against humanity, women's issues abroad, Amerikan democracy.

Again I ask- What legitimacy does this "Amerika" have?

Now that you have had some time to think about it, I will add another on-topic Point-of-Information:

Is this Amerika a democracy?

reply to post by sakokrap


Let’s get one thing straight. I am fully into differing opinions. Half the posts I leave are just to stir up trouble and conversation. But criticism must be constructive and so far all I have heard is a disproportionate level of pissing and moaning compared to the factual, observable lives that the vast majority of Americans live. But you’re right. I don’t accept your opinion or your attitude. I was once a representative of this country in other parts of the world. If you think for one second that I am going to just sit idly by and listen to someone who has apparently never done anything for this country paint us all out to be this narcissistic, me-centric, doom and gloom fatalist. “…not as bad as the Nazi’s…”; How is even remotely a concession of any kind. Even a trivial reference is so damning to an argument it has rendered more than one completely moot. Good ol’ Godwin. Claiming reverence to the OP does not validate you claim over mine. You can’t even answer your own question. What legitimizes a country? What standards would you hold up as a comparison and to what country or idealist image are we to compare this fantastical idea of yours that seems to only exist in your head.

There are apparently hundreds of thousands of visitors to this site from every country and walk of life. I will not have them thinking that America has lost its true core value of hard work, digging in when times become tough, the tenacity to soldier on when it seems that all is lost. If we are all to be citizens of the world it must start from a common ground and you seem content to make that as low a starting place as possible.

The energy that you put out is how your world is reflected. Yours is truly dark and sad and I feel nothing but pity for you and those that must endure such a myopic outlook. Everything great must start from something small. Try running for local city council. Make a change for the better in your circle. Let everyone make a change in their circle and let that expand out to the rest of the world.

Or sit here and decry the inequity of the world and search in vain for a villain instead of acknowledging that this is the way that things are until we change them. Why do I care you might ask? Because it is my personal belief that none of us will truly evolve past this state without the full cast and crew and I have decided that I don’t care if I have to drag the lot of you kicking and screaming out of this mire but this is happening so you might as well start dealing with it now.

I am appalled at the amount of ppl here that actually think the US was somehow a villian for ending the Pacific conflict. Have any of you read a book on the atrocities of Imperialist Japan? Are you guys for real? What did you think happened? You think the US just up and decided to drop 2 atomic weapons on Japan??? You do realize that Truman warned Hirohito that if he did not unconditionally surrender that the US would indeed drop a bomb of unseen destruction, right? Would you have really preferred that 2 million more Americans die invading the main Island? Use your brains ppl. The US was pulled into the war and we subsequently ended it with the LEAST amount of casualties possible. The enemy was in a no win situation, and yet they refused to surrender. Why should the US lose millions more of its soldiers because of a stubborn empire? Sometimes awful things have to take place in order to create peace. You have to put everything into perspective.

[edit on 27-8-2010 by spinalremain]

reply to post by TheWrongStuff


a fellow #-stirrer! Excellent.

so far all I have heard is a disproportionate level of pissing and moaning

True that may be; although, I have not engaged in complaints- rather opinions with a smattering of #-stirring facts.

If I may- My initial post focused upon the Double-Think Dr. Jay executed by making a claim to global policing because of crimes against humanity. I cited the absolute illogical conclusion of giving Amerika a hard time for something the UN / World Government would have responsibility to secure.

If this thread was instead labeled, " To All Members of the Anti-UN Crowd..." I likely would never posted.

____________________

My 2nd post was an attempt to summarize the discussion, and boil down issues for ease of all. Amerika's global responsibility, Amerika's problems, Amerika's legitimacy, and the nature/character of complainers.

Irrespective of my attitude, there exists a terrible THOUGHT CRIME within this thread. Global Responsibility because of crimes against humanity? Amerika?

To even make the case that this Amerika has a global responsibility is to deny the US Constitution. To dedicate the lives of men and neighbors for defense of a foreign body's law (the UN's Human Rights) is a terrible affront to the US of A.

My very serious query- WHAT LEGITIMACY DOES THIS AMERIKA HAVE? Is fundamental to reveal if this is some populous theme, or if there is indeed some foundation within law that proponents of Extra-Constitutional wars can cite.

I know there is nothing a proponents of global policing for crimes against humanity can cite. Likely you too know this, and this is why some ppl continue to drive the conversation into personally emotive arguments with serious lack of external fact/verification.

You could be modeling this type of behavior. Rather than addressing very legitimate queries, you continue to expand of what you think I believe, feel or invest. All of which is totally off topic, and the apt reader can see the dodges, the feigns, the distractions...

I am not decrying inequalities. I am not complaining. I am attempting to source (if any) the authority of Amerika to dispatch forces of war for the purpose of global policing to defend crimes against humanity (that's the purpose of this thread).

I have already made a contention, with a sprinkling of facts, that your Amerika is not a legitimate country, that Amerika and the United states of America are two separate entities.

Personally, I believe your idea of Amerika is totally fictitious, and you will never be able to find any source of authority. You may dare to cite sources of the United states of Amerika; although, I will be able to beat that concept out of your hand before your fingers fully grasp it.

I challenge you to address some of the facts I have presented:

Obviously to anyone who has ever read the US Constitution, this political body, "Amerika" is a foreign element. Senate Report 93-549 of 1973 even indicates the suspension of the Constitution. Without Constitutional powers or restraints, Amerika has a body of law (if any) unknown to the Founding Fathers. The Bill of Rights 1-10 are totally absent from life in Amerika. Free-speech zones, Class 3 licenses, stolen money for DoD salaries, warrantless searches, lawless due process, the suspension of the writ of habeus corpus, the total elimination of common law, forced labor cruelties, reduction of citizen to resident to consumer, denial of state suffrage within the Senate. The BoR are GONE.

As we have already established, you are no supporter of the BoR. What legitimizes your Amerika? Authorizes it to make war?

Simply saying, "that's ludicrous" or some other variation without responding is cowardice to admit you have no answer.

No, the US isn't hated because it intervenes to right wrongs. Truth to tell, altruistic acts are completely alien to the US. The US has never...let me repeat that...NEVER intervened out of anything other than self-interest.

The US invaded and occupied Iraq for reasons that had nothing to do with terrorism or WMD and everything to do with getting its finger on the oil spigot in order to control foreign economies. Over a million Iraqi citizens died (Lancet study), half of them children. What does a pile of half a million dead children look like? Multiply the number of dead four or five times to get the number injured: mutilated, blinded, burned... The country is in ruins but the oil flows. What the US has done to other, weaker nations under bogus casi belli is just as dark and evil. No wonder other countries hate America.

Yup we're such a peaceful country all about human rights and sending money to other countries to help while thousands of people lose their homes everyday and jobs are going to people who are invading this country while spending billions in military hardware ..... I would like to suspend human rights for a little while until we get american rights back to where they should be then we can worry about human rights again...

Originally posted by seafarer
No, the US isn't hated because it intervenes to right wrongs. Truth to tell, altruistic acts are completely alien to the US. The US has never...let me repeat that...NEVER intervened out of anything other than self-interest.

Interesting. The US has only had self-interested in mind, huh? Care to maybe come up with a few countries that have intervened somewhere and did it only out of the good of their hearts?

Originally posted by seafarer
The US invaded and occupied Iraq for reasons that had nothing to do with terrorism or WMD and everything to do with getting its finger on the oil spigot in order to control foreign economies.

Oh, yes, the "blood for oil" cry. I thought that was out of fashion nowdays?

Originally posted by seafarer
Over a million Iraqi citizens died (Lancet study), half of them children.

Try again. The Lancet study was flawed.