ADHD doesnt exist

Originally posted by sodakota
I worked in a school once, and there was a boy there that had this "disorder."

When they tested him, they found out he was a borderline "genius."

Sounds like my story!

I don't believe them though, no one ever listens to me so I must be full of hot air.

Though I would not be surprised, being unable to do more than one thing at a time allows me to put a lot of energy into the task at hand.

reply to post by Skyfloating


Thank you Skyfloating for a very interesting thread.

If I may, I'd like to add some personal experiences with ADHD. It all started when I moved back to Norway from the states. I was staying with my mother and her young son (my little brother). He was diagnosed with ADHD and she told me that he *has to get away with certain things* because he can't control himself...

Well, needless to say that pretty much meant anything he did wrong. The psychiatrist she visited with him told her that he had to have more leeway then most children due to his hyper activity. It's just my mother took that as "everything he does wrong". I.e. no discipline for the the things he did which were wrong. Well, that stopped after I came back "home". My little brother quickly realized that the stunts he pulled with my mother wouldn't fly with me and that for the wrongs he did, he'd have to sew the repercussions. (i.e. cleaning up after his mess, cleaning up his crap laying everywhere and of course, time outs which he COULD.NOT.STAND!)

My mother went to the hospital for a small operation. She was gone for a week. During this time, my little brother acted like any other kid. Everyone was impressed, they thought he was going on some kind of new ADHD medicine but all it was, was showing him that his crap doesn't fly. He straightened up until my mother came back. So I feel that ADHD is simply lack of discipline and following through on punishment like time-outs and making him clean up after himself when he decides to make a mess.

To put it bluntly, she's an enabler and her lack of discipline is what's causing my little brother to act the way he is.

My own experience of course, your mileage may vary.

I think its amazing how there are more people in America diagnosed with ADHD than the rest of the world combined...I think it has to do with all the chemicals that are pumped into the food and water.

reply to post by Skyfloating

I consider the OP to be not merely stupid but evil.

ADHD is a multi-factorial disease.

I had one client with symptoms of "ADHD", whose problem was colon toxicity. Bowels moved once in only several days. The system was acid and toxic, irritating the nerves. That was the reason that the client could not sit still in class. The parents had taken client to any number of doctors, none of which were even assessing or addressing that issue. The toxicity was so bad that a skin condition developed, a blood condition developed, which finally led to kidney failure and....

A kidney transplant.

All because the bowels did not move.

This cost thousands of dollars in surgical fees; and, now, at least a thousand dollars a month in drug costs for suppressing graft rejection.

Optometrists with experience in orthoptics have also seen that there is a neurological component to these "ADHD" symptoms, which can be resolved with orthoptics training having to do with the resolution of "visual suppression" (?).

An opthalmologist I know has addressed these problems with the use of 'plane prisms' in glasses, although the children often have 20/20 vision.

Sometimes there is a nutritional component having to do with the malabsorption of magnesium.

So, the real problem here is not that "ADHD" does not exist.

The problem is that a multi-factorial disease--which needs to be assessed from several different perspectives--is being treated exclusively with the use of drugs in order that the pharmaceutical companies make billions of dollars in profits.

There is additional information about this whole problen on other threads on this forum as well as on my website:

irisnutritioncognitionresearch.blogspot.com...

with additional links on my website.

Michael Cecil

Originally posted by SKUNK2
I think its amazing how there are more people in America diagnosed with ADHD than the rest of the world combined...I think it has to do with all the chemicals that are pumped into the food and water.

And, then, there are the toxic effects of flouride on thyroid gland activity. At least three effects, according to an alternative medicine doctor that I know.

Flouride being in most water systems.

And in toothpaste.

Michael Cecil

Originally posted by intrepid
Now a days they put the kids on drugs. How are they going to learn to control themselves?

I totally agree with you, I myself was diagnosed with ADHD when I was 9 and I have taken ritalin since then, it started with 3 times 5mg a day, now I take 3 times 25mg a day, now I have to stop taking it because ritalin is only refunded by the "health insurance" (I'm putting it between quotes because it's not really health insurance as in the US health insurance) untill the age of 18 and my mom doesn't feel like paying 120 euro a month for the ritalin out of her own pocket. Of course, now I have no idea how to study without ritalin, since I have never had to...

Greets
FP

Originally posted by Frontkjemper
To put it bluntly, she's an enabler and her lack of discipline is what's causing my little brother to act the way he is.

I agree that half of the cases (not all) I see are connected to lack of restraint and respect. Tolerating a whole lot from kids is a good thing - until that tolerance is abused to mean "anything goes".

Hey peoples^^
Just wanted to let you guys know that I was diagnosed with AD/HD when I was approxamentally 6-7 years old. I'm now sixteen years old and still taking medication, but I am still having problems with it. I went in for a full on CT scan with I was around 13 years old, and they made the "official" diagnosis then. All I got to say is that it both sucks eggs and is the most epic thing ever!

ADHD has a genetic component.

When the USA gene pool is assessed it may not be surprising that there is a higher prevalence of psychiatric disease as if one looks at the Statue of Liberty one finds the following:
"Give us your poor, your tired, your huddled masses longing to be free..."

The poor are often physically or mentally ill.
The tired are often physically or mentally ill.
Those longing to be "free" are often those with histories of criminality.

The people who emigrated to the USA may have had an above average incidence of psychiatric morbidity which may have led to higher rates of ADHD.

To quote Steven Wright: The problem with the gene pool is that there is no lifeguard.

Of course, this theory is just conjecture.

No it's definatley made up by big pharma so they can sell weak synthetic coc aine to school children and have the tax payers pay for it. also so dr.'s kids can get overly high gpas. that being said i enjoy doing some weak synthetic coc aine every now and then, it for sure makes me a better golfer among other fun activities.

reply to post by Vicodin
A gift you say? I am 46 and was recently diagnosed here in the uk. I am on non stimulant meds and my life has changed completely for the better. The "gift" destroyed my life, i have never held onto a relationship, always some other guy bringing up my kids. Never could do well work wise, always watching not very bright people getting promotion so changing jobs. Never able to sit and concentrate for more than ten minutes. Always losing it. Now i am so chilled, happy and looking to start a degree course. I dont mean to insult you but i would not whish this gift upon my worst enemy!!!!!!!

Was this expose on the ADHD-ADD scam posted already -- interview with Dr. Fred Baughman

I just found out a family friend is putting her daughter age 10 on these drugs. It's so creepy and tragic to damage your own child's brain - but people are so drug addicted these days from alcohol, nicotine and then the Big Pharma craze with anti-depressants starting in the 1980s - the above interview exposes the whole scam.

Originally posted by False_Prophet

Originally posted by intrepid
Now a days they put the kids on drugs. How are they going to learn to control themselves?

I totally agree with you, I myself was diagnosed with ADHD when I was 9 and I have taken ritalin since then, it started with 3 times 5mg a day, now I take 3 times 25mg a day, now I have to stop taking it because ritalin is only refunded by the "health insurance" (I'm putting it between quotes because it's not really health insurance as in the US health insurance) untill the age of 18 and my mom doesn't feel like paying 120 euro a month for the ritalin out of her own pocket. Of course, now I have no idea how to study without ritalin, since I have never had to...

Greets
FP

You should think of it as a blessing that you can no longer afford Ritalin, the long term effects of it are detrimental to your mental health and will make you 'worse'.

Hello i believe that Adhd is more of a way to Explain ones personality (but there is also some that claim you can track adhd in the brain because of low serotonin and dopamin and some may have it because of the foods they eat )
since it tell you how you overeact to certain situations and react difrently to pressure since you most likely put a giant pressure on your self and also the vast amounts Energy Available to you and the lack of control wich also have been mentioned in early posts and the impulses wich also are out of control in some way, i have tried sometimes where i cant even calm my own because i am thinking about to many things at once and wanna things in at the time where i almost get dizzy and wanna puke because of the distres i can cause and not to mention the sadnes fear , and uncomfort it also can cause so there alot more to it than just a simple test or 1 doctor anylazing you
so i would say that Adhd is a very real thing but you cant make a list for all because its all so very different from person to person

I have Adhd my self and still fight with everyday ( or so i have been told -.- )

sorry for the bad english i hope you can understand without it being to confusing -.-

reply to post by Skyfloating


I would say that, in RARE cases, it does exist, but it should probably be treated as a behavioral / nutritional issue, rather than prescribing amphetamines to children. I know many of the diagnoses are actually so that the adults can get their speed paid for by insurance, and obtained legally (though they take it instead of their kids), but many of them are actually willingly giving their children amphetamine salts. I don't know if they're just ignorant, just don't care, or actually hate their children, but it needs to stop - and the Pharma people and FDA people who allow it, need to seriously think about whether they should continue their lives on this planet.

Well, at the age of 43 I am finally diagnosed with ADD, without the 'H'.
Major space cadet as a kid, tried ritalin for a short time, apparently made me dozy (I did not know what the pills were for, or that they would affect me or make me dozy.)
I will be so happy to try medication that I hope will work for me, still waiting on that.

Meanwhile my life is ruled by, indecisiveness, trouble paying attention, forgetfulness, lack of focus, get bored easy, depression, anxiety, bouts of lethargy, anti-social, a million projects started in the house, most never completed.
annnd....Unemployed again.

Fake?!! OP, if I could have you try out my ADD, would you keep it?

As funny as it sounds, when I was in my 20's I denied ADD/ADHD myself, I looked at it as me being me, I did not want to be labeled, or to take prescription drugs.
But at the age of 43 and how I have struggled through life as it is some sort of a chore as I 'sigh' through the thing, I sought help and took advantage of the system after I got laid off/fired from yet another job, now I am diagnosed, gimme the freakin' pills!
IMO, i know I have low levels of norepinephrine and dopamine, like some people know god exists, I just feel it, I start a new hobby or activity and my dopamine levels rise and I pour all my energy into it, then like the top dropping from a sinkhole cavern, my dopamine levels drop and so does my interest in that 'old' hobby.
I want to stay interested, but I can't.

That's all for now.

Originally posted by Inamorata
reply to post by Skyfloating

 

Respectfully, as a moderator, your posts should include some type of scientific evidence from published papers. You are moderating a medical bored, and stating theory without published basis would get you nowhere in the academic community.

Secondly, ADHD/ ADD are, in fact, real mental disorders that present with specific physiological pathologies. For instance, there are severe abnormalities in dopamine transporters and receptors in those with ADD/ADHD. Those with ADD/ADHD have markedly decreased bioavailability of dopamine transporters as well as receptors, which play a key role in what we like to call the 'reward pathway'. (The link includes PET scans if words and statistics aren't enough.)
Familial studies also show strong genetic basis for ADD/ADHD. Base code mutations in the sequences for the DRD4 and DAT1 genes (both encode for dopamine receptors) cause either hyperactive reuptake of dopamine or a subsensitive receptor (leading to a larger uptake of dopamine), respectively.
I find that when people see a physiological malfunction, they are more likely to accept a mental disorder as 'real', rather than simply basing the disorder on behavioral abnormalities.

Now, yes, ADD/ADHD is over-diagnosed. Yes, we are giving very strong medication to many children who simply don't need it or have not been given other therapeutical options such as changes in diet, environmental stimuli, etc. And, yes, the average public school classroom has become more of a babysitting tool for the masses rather than a way to meaningfully educate our children.
Does this mean that a mental disorder that has become a buzzword in the media isn't real? Absolutely not. Thankfully, we are coming into an era where we can find specific genetic abnormalities that cause the abnormal behaviors we classify into mental disorders.

skyfloating
funny how you completly ignored the post above!

Yes, the condition is mis diagnosed too much, but to say
it does not exist, esp when you have not studied the condition,
is very ignorant and arragont

Well, it does exist. Whether you choose to label it as a psychological aberration is a different issue altogether. Psychologists use the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual (in in its fourth "text revised" edition) to make these diagnoses. ADHD is well operationalized with a categorical classification.

Calling ADHD "energetic" isn't really accurate, even a bit of straw man.

DSM Criteria for ADHD

Typically mental disorder is defined as behaviour/thinking which results in social/occupational impairment of some kind. As you can see, some of these symptoms do seem somewhat debilitating, "often does not follow through on instructions and fails to finish school work, chores, or duties in the workplace (not due to oppositional behavior or failure to understand instructions)" is obviously pretty severe. Other symptoms seem a bit abnormal but nothing to worry about, "often fidgets with hands or feet or squirms in seat", and finally some just seem useless for making a diagnosis, "is often "on the go" or often acts as if "driven by a motor".

It is important to note that symptoms must last half a year, not just 1 month stints of high activity and there must be six or more symptoms present. I would assume that usually diagnosis are made in less time.

I feel the issue is two pronged, one, many laypersons vilify the psychology community for slapping labels on children, or giving them drugs when they're just acting like kids. But as you can see, this isn't exactly accurate. And two, the categorical system of diagnosis used now is effective sometimes, and not effective at other times.

This is why the newly proposed DSM-5 is switching to dimensional classification for many disorders, instead of being placed in a category based on having, or not having certain symptoms individuals will all be seen to have certain traits/behaviours which vary in intensity. I think that would likely be the best route to take for ADHD, but the going is slow. The field is relatively new.

Originally posted by Tetrarch42

This is why the newly proposed DSM-5 is switching to dimensional classification for many disorders, instead of being placed in a category based on having, or not having certain symptoms individuals will all be seen to have certain traits/behaviours which vary in intensity. I think that would likely be the best route to take for ADHD, but the going is slow. The field is relatively new.

So, I was wondering if that is why I was diagnosed ADD-NOS?
NOS, I had to ask, what is that?!
'Not Otherwise Specified' never heard of that one, it must be new.

Great, I thought, I have been diagnosed ADD, but I do not fit into a specific category, personally I thought it would be 'PI' primarily inattentive, I just lean toward PI.
But the more I think of it, I am a bit non specific.
And I am weird.

OP: I wholeheartedly agree with you that ADD meds are over-prescribed, especially in young children.

However, I find your assertion that ADD / ADHD does not exist because certain traits are common to children is ignorant and misleading.


What about cases of "adult" ADD / ADHD?


It's not that this "condition" (whatever you want to call it) does not exist, more that it is poorly defined, poorly understood, over-hyped, over-diagnosed, and over-prescribed. The sad fact of the matter is that psychiatry, especially psychiatric medicine, is VERY far from an exact science.

According to the diagnostic manual guidelines, a majority of people have one "mental illness" or another. Guidelines for some of these conditions are pretty broad, and there is a lot of overlap.

It's really the whole system that is under-developed and "broken."

But for you to equate this with the idea that this condition doesn't exist is, IMO, rather ignorant and misinformed.