ADHD doesnt exist, page 37

reply to post by 27jd

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funny thing is that pain "medicine" only works on the pain not the actual "healing of the wound" and that neurological and nerve defunctions usualy are treated with hormones for a minimum starter of 3 months up to years , thats how they repair brains and nerves that are damaged ,

reply to post by zerbot565

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What kind of hormones are you referring to? To repair nerve damage/dysfunction? Not sure I've heard about that....

Actually it's weird all the "controversy" this thread stirred up. After all, it's not even a controversial thing to say that ADHD doesn't exist... psychiatry (ADHD is a psychiatric term) itself admits it! There are no scientific tests for ADHD...there is NO SCIENTIFIC BASIS for "labeling" someone with ADHD.

Sure, some people have lots of excess energy, have trouble concentrating, or whatever...BUT THERE IS NOTHING IN SCIENCE TO SAY WHETHER THEY HAVE OR HAVEN'T A CONDITION CALLED "ADHD" -- there is no scientific test that can be carried out to find out if someone has "ADHD"!

Psychiatry says blandly that it's all caused by "chemical imbalances in the brain"...but shockingly, THIS THEORY IS BOGUS! IT HAS NEVER BEEN PROVED! THERE IS NO SCIENTIFIC BASIS FOR IT!

The following quotation is from a documentary video presentation available at www.becomehealthynow.com...:

"Psychiatry admits it has not proven the cause or source of a single mental illness. The theory that a chemical imbalance causes mental illness has been thoroughly discredited by the psychiatric industry itself. While psychiatrists claim that brain scans can detect certain mental disorders, there is no scientific proof, and MEDICAL EXPERTS SAY THAT TO EVEN SUGGEST THIS IS TRUE IS UNETHICAL. In legal matters psychiatrists rarely agree in their diagnoses..."

(In fact numerous studies have shown that undiagnosed PHYSICAL problems can cause behavioural and emotional problems, but that doesn't stop psychiatrists routinely diagnosing these physical conditions as mental disorders.)

Even the Psychiatric Times admitted in 2003 that psychiatry's Diagnostic Manual (DSM IV) is nothing more than a "laughing stock" among the other medical professions.

Horrifically though, based on nothing more than this "laughing stock," 17 MILLION CHILDREN worldwide (the majority in the U.S.), are now prescribed some form of unpredictable mind altering drug for "mental illnesses" -- NONE OF WHICH HAVE EVEN BEEN SCIENTIFICALLY PROVEN TO EXIST.

(Watch the video at: www.becomehealthynow.com...)

As a matter of fact the Original Poster should get a medal for bringing this subject up, and not the sickening abuse he was instead subjected to.

reply to post by OurManInGlasgow

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So, let me get this straight. Because there are no tests at the moment that prove that someone has adhd/add, that means it does not exists?

Again, are you one of these Physic people who knows what everyone who has adhd/add is thinking?

See, this is just ignorant, because you are not interested in hearing about the people who do have this condition, all you care about is saying it does not exist. I suppose that you also think that people with ADHD/add are Geniuses up up our own a*ses, like the other people on here?

So the OP deserves a medal for saying this condition does not exist. That says it all really

reply to post by Jay-morris

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Look, honestly...I don't care how I came off.
I agree with the OP, and that's that.
However, I'm reading a whole lot of whinging from people saying things like "well I have it and you don't and you don't understand" and "if that's what you think it is then you're ignorant"...so...okay...I'll bite.
What are your symptoms?
How does this affliction affect you from your point of view?


And...to whichever douchebag who asked...no...I'm not some guy who "pushes the x-ray button"...I was a nutrition science major, then I switched to nursing and I've worked in the mental health system for several years (which I've said before...if you cared to read it...oh wait...I guess you just weren't paying attention.)

Originally posted by Matthew Dark
reply to post by Jay-morris

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Look, honestly...I don't care how I came off.
I agree with the OP, and that's that.
However, I'm reading a whole lot of whinging from people saying things like "well I have it and you don't and you don't understand" and "if that's what you think it is then you're ignorant"...so...okay...I'll bite.
What are your symptoms?
How does this affliction affect you from your point of view?


And...to whichever douchebag who asked...no...I'm not some guy who "pushes the x-ray button"...I was a nutrition science major, then I switched to nursing and I've worked in the mental health system for several years (which I've said before...if you cared to read it...oh wait...I guess you just weren't paying attention.)

well said matt.

reply to post by alysha.angel

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Thank you, punkin.
I just want to get to the bottom of this.

reply to post by Matthew Dark

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No, i am not ignorant, and if you look at your past posts, you will see that you were being ignorant by thinking you know how i feel. What is the point of me telling you my symptoms? and how before i started taling ritalin, i struggled. Do you think this will change your mind on ADD, no, i don't think so.

You see, all i have read on this board are people who think they know how i, and other ADD people feel. That we are looking for sympathy, that we think we are misunderstood Geniuses, that we always think poor me, and that we have failed lives.

All this is not from our months, but from the mouths of the people who think its BS. So, what does that tell me. Well, it tells me that alot of people on this thread are ignorant, arragont, and a little bit jealous because what other reason would you say this stuff?

Originally posted by Jay-morris
reply to post by Matthew Dark

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No, i am not ignorant...

I never said you were. You're more than welcome to quote me exactly where I had said that to you.

...and if you look at your past posts...

Which I have.

you will see that you were being ignorant by thinking you know how i feel.

At which point exactly did I profess to know how you feel? Not only have I not ever done that, I don't care how you "feel", I care about how the symptoms manifest.

What is the point of me telling you my symptoms?

There are two points.
First, I asked.
Second, I asked politely.
Besides, if I'm not mistaken (which...I'm not)...you're the one whinging and telling everyone else how ignorant they are because they don't know how you "feel". Well...I don't know about anyone else (although I'm fairly sure most of them don't really care how you "feel" either) but I'm rather interested as to how these "symptoms" manifest in a clinical manner. Especially from someone as...vocal...as yourself.

and how before i started taling ritalin, i struggled.

Struggled how?
What symptoms were you trying to suppress?
What effects and side effects did the meds produce in you?
Was there a significant change in your daily rituals, perception or behavior?

Do you think this will change your mind on ADD...

It's absolutely possible.
New conditions require a healthy amount of skepticism until proven plausible.
However, I'm always willing to change my stance on a particular subject when presented with new clinical data.
That's how medical science works.

...no, i don't think so.

Now who's being ignorant?

You see, all i have read on this board are people who think they know how i, and other ADD people feel.

Again, not once did I profess to know how you "feel", I was merely offering commentary regarding typical symptoms. When it comes to medicine and science, I love being wrong. Being wrong helps me to get to be right. Besides...I'm not other people. I am one guy who happens to have some experience in the field. You don't like what I have to say, fine. But you keep calling everyone who doesn't agree with you ignorant, and hold fast to your "you don't know how I feel" straw man argument. So, I asked about your symptoms, and you still continued to bitch. How is that progress?

That we are looking for sympathy,

Well, you certainly won't get any of that from me, I assure you.

that we think we are misunderstood Geniuses,

Heh, nope. I never claimed that you were.

that we always think poor me,

I never said "always"...besides...your posts and obnoxious attitude led me to that conclusion.

and that we have failed lives.

Dude, you're using a whole lot of "we's" in this part of your post.
Are you somehow qualified to speak on behalf of everyone that shares your particular diagnosis? I sincerely doubt you are. And on that note, you seemed to take my "fail" comment to heart when if you actually go read what I said, it was not directed towards you. So, I'm wondering if your "condition" has given you some kind of inferiority complex. You seemed pretty quick to jump in and talk about all of your accomplishments (which I don't know exactly why you felt that need because you #1 don't know me; #2 don't have anything to prove to me and #3 assume I care) as though I had slighted you personally. This is an internet forum. You'll meet lots of people who not only disagree with you, but call you out on your whinging and attitude. Deal with it.

All this is not from our months, but from the mouths of the people who think its BS.

*nods and listens*

So, what does that tell me.

Um, that perhaps you should use a "?" when asking a question. Or were you just not paying attention in elementary school?
Dude, look...seriously...you're wearing your heart on your sleeve in this thread which is fine, but it seriously opens you up to criticism when people with medical backgrounds ask you for concrete information and all you do is try to turn it around and complain.

Well, it tells me that alot of people on this thread are ignorant,

Do you mean other people, or me in particular?
Because if you want to take a shot at me in particular, go for it. It's the internet, I don't really care. No need to be passive/aggressive about it...just come out and say it.

arragont,

You mean "arrogant"? Well, I can't speak for anyone else, but yeah, I'm arrogant. And you're whinny. So what of it?

and a little bit jealous

Jealous? Of?

because what other reason would you say this stuff?

Because hard science has yet to prove any of it in a clinical setting.
Because drug companies prey on the scared and foolish.
Because medicine requires lots of wrongs before it can be right.
Because the APA has discredited much (if not all) of what's been designated "add".
Because psychologists aren't as medically trained as psychiatrists.
Because I, along with several other skeptical minds up here, don't take peoples' opinions on faith without some kid of science to back it up.
And...
Because...
I just don't like your attitude.

reply to post by Matthew Dark

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At which point exactly did I profess to know how you feel? Not only have I not ever done that, I don't care how you "feel", I care about how the symptoms manifest.

This is what you wrote.

ADD is like the Valentine's day of disorders...made up by corporations to sell sh#t to gullible people that they don't need.

so, you think i am gulible? is that because my condition is not real! Read my mind can you?

So, you have issues concentrating. Good for you...I do too.

You're fidgety.Good for you...so am I. Exercise some self control and perhaps the need to blame your issues on some imaginary learning disorder might diminish

Now, what does that sound like to you? Well, it sure sound like you know whats going on in my mind, doen't it!

There are two points. First, I asked. Second, I asked politely.Besides, if I'm not mistaken (which...I'm not)...you're the one whinging and telling everyone else how ignorant they are because they don't know how you "feel". Well...I don't know about anyone else (although I'm fairly sure most of them don't really care how you "feel" either) but I'm rather interested as to how these "symptoms" manifest in a clinical manner. Especially from someone as...vocal...as yourself.

I have stated the problems i have had on this thread. Go back and read them if you want to know. I am saying that people are ignorant because they think they know how i feel, and they think they know whats going through my head, just like you!

Well, this is the thing. When i go and see a person about my ADD, i know they care about my well being. You have made it pretty much clear that you don't give a crap, as with many people who have been against this on this board. Again, what does that tell you?

Struggled how? What symptoms were you trying to suppress?What effects and side effects did the meds produce in you? Was there a significant change in your daily rituals, perception or behavior?

I could not concentrate at all. When i tried to concentrate, i always have about five things going through my mind. Zoning out, i would zone out all the time, if it was at school,work, or driving. I had to stop my driving because i kept on doing this. Even when i would be talking to something, i would zone out, while they were talking to me, while still nodding my head, but not listening to them. My head was always noisy. I could not concentrate on one thing at a time, never.

I would overlook details, leading to errors or incomplete work. Say for instance, i could only do one thing ata time at work, even then, i would struggle. I would look at a code, say b523a. I would have to write this code down. I would have to look at the code about five times because to me, it just looks messed up. I would always get the code mixed up because even with something as small as that, i found it hard becuase my mind would always be thinking of many other things.

When i used to read, i had the same problem, and it really effected me when i started to study for IT web design. I would start reading, and before i knew it, i would have finished the page, and not taken anything in because my mind would be thinking of other stuff. I used to sit there and tell myself to concentrate. I would start reading, and after a couple of lines, i would do the same thing again.

My wife saw how this all was effecting me. And i thought it was something that i would have to live with because i did not know what it was, or how to go about getting it sorted. And there is nothing worse than having that feeling.

It did make me depressed and make me feel alone. Even when my wife would try and talk to me about it, i would zone out. I just could not help it.

So, its easy for people to say "i can't concentrate sometimes" or "i zone out too sometimes" They don't know what its like to have this, and they never will. I wish people could get into my head and see what its like, i really do. But that is not going to happen.

When i started taking ritalin, there was no change at first, but after a while, i started to see that i could concentrate better, that my mind was clearer. I could hold things in my mind better, as my mind was clearer. I could read and actually remember what i just read. This was the best part for me, and i started to read many books.

I got through my course pretty quick after that, and now im a web designer. My mind is more clear than its ever been, and i can do things i could never do before.

I got so cinfident that i decided to come off ritalin. It was good at first, but my mind started to get messy again, and i found myself not being able to concentrate and my mind was just full of noise again. So, i decided to go back on ritalin.

The side effects i have from ritalin are sometimes headaches. Thats all really.

Thats all i have to say. I am not going to go through the rest of your post. I have said what i have to say, and thats it.

I may be stepping in it, but I agree with the OP 100%.

There is two sides of the brain.
Left and right.
Left is linear step by step thinking, text and organizing.
Right is intuitive, multiprocessing, graphical.

web-us.com...

borntoexplore.org...

www.funderstanding.com...

Depending on genetic and environmental variables. One side of the brain usually takes dominance. There is some where both sides are evenly developed, but they are few and far between. The degree in which the dominant side dominates your brain will vary from person to person.

So the general question is “Are you a left brain or right brain?”

Each type generally generates associated attributes.

What they call ADHD is symptoms of having a right brain dominance.
Our educational system is built about educating left brain people. It doesn’t know how to educate right brain people. So they classify them as defective.

Our education system is so entrenched that when a heavily right brain person is subjected to it, they literally appear dysfunctional (the person that is).

They can learn, and they can learn at a far faster rate than any left brain person, but they can not learn in any modern institutions. Their rate of information consumption far exceeds that of a left brain type. That is why they easily get bored.

If I was in school today, they would of had me on Ritalin so fast your head would spin. I found all that social studies stuff plain ass boring. I found my calling in technology and how things worked. That field provided me with enough information to keep my brain occupied. And occupy my mind, I did.

I was tearing apart lawn mower engines when I was 5.

When I graduated high school, I couldn’t write worth crap. But… I could read faster than almost anyone in the school, and I could apply that information almost instantly on anything. I was the one that did maintenance on the school’s computer network. It was an odd thing. Walking into a classroom to change out their computers with ones I had personally assembled and programmed, but I was kicked out of that class not three years earlier for being developmentally disabled.

At any time in the day, I could walk to any part of the school and start ripping electronic stuff out of the walls, and it wouldn’t so much as lift an eyebrow of anyone walking by. I knew more about the networking system than the people that run it.

The thing to learn when you are right brain is thinking about multiple things at once is perfectly normal. That is the basis of how the intuitive right brain works. It doesn’t stand out on left brain people because their left brain keeps the process subordinate. The key is training those lines of thought on different things about the same subject you are working on.

When I am looking at a piece of malfunctioning equipment, part of my brain is contemplating the mechanical side, part is working on the hydraulic side, part is working the electrical side. And I bridge those lines of though together to see how they interact. When one of the thought process starts running into a conflict, I divert attention to that line of thinking and spread it out into more detail.

I start from a broad macro view, and slowly peal back the systems in my mind until I isolate the possible problem in my mind then I go in physically to see if I am right. Usually I am.

To keep your entire mind occupied, you need to feed the beast(your mine). You need to give it information about everything relating to every subject you deal with. When I deal with a piece of mechanical equipment, I go through all the documentation on it. I want to know how the complete system works as a whole. When something goes wrong, I can compare the mental model in my mind against what it is doing and draw conclusions on what my be wrong.

My comprehension of the inner workings of a piece of equipment is far deeper than any left brain person could have. I can actually build a complete replica in my mind and run it.

And the fun part is, I can throw all my thoughts back in the back of my mind and switch to another subject entirely, then when I am done, jump right back,

You have to give your mind a better understanding of the world around you. Think on the macro level, not thread by thread basis. The global picture is what I look for.

The interesting thing I have found about that in the technological world is once you have dug through a couple different (fill in the blank) then you can pretty much walk up to any brand of (fill in the blank) and you know how to fix it. That is because design practices carry though the entire industry. When you see how it’s built on the outside, you pretty much know how they built it on the inside.

I dig into every detail of the world around me. Nuclear, electronics, power, hydraulics, mechanics, radio, political, social, and any other subject that could be named. It all gives me a better, more complete mental modeled of the world around me.

MY mind is a beast that needs knowledge. I feed it.

Just because they look at something for a few seconds, then jump to something else, does not mean they are not paying attention, and have not learned anything from it. With a right brain person, everything you see is integrated into you concept of reality. You could see something, and 5 years later, see something else that relates to the first thing, and an image of what you seen 5 years ago will pop into you mind like it was 1 hour ago, and your mind will integrate what you seen then, with what you see now, and draw conclusions from it.

When you see anything new, it serves as the mental building blocks for everything else relating to that subject for the rest of your life. Everything you see is woven into the fabric of your mind, and how you think.

Any description of the monumental effect on my understanding of the world that that old Briggs and Stratton engine had (that I tore apart when I was 5) would be a colossal understatement.

I was one of the lucky ones in this world that normally has a heavily controlled access and flow of information to young people. My parents allowed my to dig in to and learn about anything I wanted any time I wanted to. When I wanted to see how something worked (as long as it was already junk) they let me. They encouraged me to apply what I learned. For that I am forever grateful.

*cont*

[edit on 2-9-2010 by Mr Tranny]

reply to post by Mr Tranny

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Well, okay, but simply being different isn't ADHD. Having those differences significantly impair you is required for a diagnosis of ADHD:

...D. There must be clear evidence of clinically significant impairment in social, academic, or occupational functioning....

Source

Like the people on this thread who say that can't concentrate even on things they really want to concentrate on. That's not 'multitasking', it's impairment (which I readily admit is a potentially subjective distinction).

Originally posted by Ian McLean
reply to post by Mr Tranny

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Well, okay, but simply being different isn't ADHD. Having those differences significantly impair you is required for a diagnosis of ADHD:

...D. There must be clear evidence of clinically significant impairment in social, academic, or occupational functioning....

Source

Like the people on this thread who say that can't concentrate even on things they really want to concentrate on. That's not 'multitasking', it's impairment (which I readily admit is a potentially subjective distinction).

I will allow myself one follow up, because the shear irony of that statement demands a reply.
See what I mean.
Someone that is not grasping multilevel interactive forces.
The reason they have problems isn’t because of them, it is because of the way they was educated in school.

The educational institution tries to teach them to think in a way that their brain isn’t wire for. That naturally leads to problems.

If I would have listened to my teachers, I would have had the same problem. I learned enough to know they was full of @$*@$*
Se ya….

reply to post by Jay-morris

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So, its easy for people to say "i can't concentrate sometimes" or "i zone out too sometimes" They don't know what its like to have this, and they never will. I wish people could get into my head and see what its like, i really do. But that is not going to happen.

exactly

it's one of the reasons I bowed out of this thread - it's almost impossible to demonstrate this - how do you prove your own experience?

I admire the way you've held your ground - you're a better man than I

reply to post by Mr Tranny

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So you're basically saying that ADHD isn't the person's problem, it's caused by society having certain requirements that some individuals aren't able to meet.

I agree with that.

Societies, and human interaction in general, seems to require some level of consistent predictability, and some ability for consistent application of effort, within a societally-defined framework.

It seems that's a necessary evil. I can't think of any structure of a society that stably functions, that would not make some level of those demand from the majority of its members.

As Skyfloating pointed out, the requirements in our society for attention are appallingly low -- most people have no real need to focus on complex issues, and skate by without really ever doing so.

So your point is well taken -- always look first to the larger assumed context when attempting to label 'problems'. But, truthfully accepting that, is it always wrong to attempt to help individuals who want to function within that context, do so?

reply to post by Adillin2012

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Your post was quite intellegent.

However, My 33 year old son never grew out of ADHD. He still has it, but has learned to compensate for it.

He's better than when a child, but still has this disorder.

[edit on 2-9-2010 by ofhumandescent]

reply to post by OurManInGlasgow

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I must have missed the incidences of sickening abuse the OP had heaped upon himself.

Some examples and clarification on this point would be nice.

I saw a thread, in which both sides were presented. That is normally called a debate, not sickening abuse.

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