ADHD doesnt exist

reply to post by OurManInGlasgow


So if psychiatry is a fraud, does that mean that schizophrenics are just quirky? People with depression are just sad for no reason? People with social anxiety disorder are just shy? There are many people out there whose lives have been saved by this so called fraud science and to deny that denies the work of many good hearted men and women who seek to their fellow Man.

Originally posted by grey580

However if a kid doesn't use up that energy they are going to be unsufferably agitated.

I'm wondering if there's a link between adhd and not enough excersize.

I would say NO - - to authentic ADD/ADHD. But exercise is good therapy.

However - - I think it does apply to mis-diagnosed ADD/ADHD. Most kids in this modern world definitely do not get enough physical activity.

reply to post by Maybe...maybe not


My brother has severe ADHD and we were raised by wonderful parents. For the OP to say it doesn't exist is ignorant. My brother happens to be the type who NEEDS medication. It is truly amazing to see the difference. Now that he is older, he stopped taking his meds. He is 22, lives with my mother, doesn't work, and weighs nearly 350 lbs. He has gotten fired from every job since he quit taking his meds. I do believe that they are overprescribed however my brother definitely needs them to function.

I agree with you, very much.

Especially about the school statement. Teachers are ridiculous and full of themselves. Sure, there are teachers that are different, but I'm talking about the other ones. Like, what? 99.9% of them are as described, above.

Its not healthy to sit in a chair for several hours. I doubt the human body was designed for that. They tell them to go and have fun, and work out but again, they make them sit there for that long.

Of course they are gonna be the way they are, because they are kids.

Actually, the same goes for the older group of students.

Yes, the video games and sugar can definitely have an impact on this so called "A.D.H.D.". No humor in class, not anything except brainwashing kids.

Not trying to get off-topic, but I'm supposed to be going into my senior year, for high school, after this summer. Because the way school is, I don't actually go to a building. I do distance learning, so I take exams home, and submit them online for my diploma.

All the energy I have, now, doesn't have to be held in, since I'm in my own house. Really relaxing way of school, by the way.

This is a good thread, and i hope it will wake up some parents about some stuff.

Thank You !

reply to
post by mjleonid12


If a teacher wanted to rearrange their classroom - - say bring in bean bag chairs and decorative rugs - - - and have a casual environment for learning.

Would teacher be allowed to do that?

Originally posted by stephanies-chase
reply to post by Maybe...maybe not

 

My brother has severe ADHD and we were raised by wonderful parents. For the OP to say it doesn't exist is ignorant. My brother happens to be the type who NEEDS medication. It is truly amazing to see the difference. Now that he is older, he stopped taking his meds. He is 22, lives with my mother, doesn't work, and weighs nearly 350 lbs. He has gotten fired from every job since he quit taking his meds. I do believe that they are overprescribed however my brother definitely needs them to function.

Without wishing to be mean, nothing you have described is a symptom for ADHD.
Not as mainstream medicine describes it. I honestly think your brother has other issues.

It is even possible his current state was caused by incorrectly prescribed medication. Many medications are highly addictive and can cause a multitude of secondary conditions. I'd say get another doctor.

deleted duplicate post

[edit on 23-8-2010 by Noncompatible]

Originally posted by nixie_nox
reply to post by LooseLipsSinkShips

 

Restless leg is a very real disorder. I love how people pick and choose what diseases are real or not. Based on no scientific evidence whatsoever.

It is caused by low iron, low potassium, low vit D, or too much caffeine late at night.

How sad and ignoran that people put so much stock into the medical community and think they have the answer to everything(they are not demi-gods) and there are plenty of things that they don't know about.

New diseases are being discovered all the time. Things mutate, chemicals affect the body and wrack the brain.

But because you have never personally experienced, you base on no scientific or medical experience whatsoever, that it doesn't exist.

How sad.

[edit on 22-8-2010 by nixie_nox]

Yeah...you must be filled with these cancer pills. I don't endorse that myself.

Anyone can create any kind of "disorder" or "disease" by hand picking certain traits. These pills are just for weak willed people who can't cope with life (parents of ADHD or people who have RLS). Some people are just so willing to do anything and say anything that it takes in order to get the pills that they desire. Are you one of them?

reply to post by LooseLipsSinkShips


Are you quite done bullying people and playing "internet tough guy"?

Look, if any of you are neurologists or nutrition science majors or endocrinologists, I'd be more than willing to listen to your arguments.
But since most of you aren't, and you're just regurgitating what other people have told you, then...meh.
I still stand by my statement.

reply to post by Annee


I could not agree more. When I was growing up, we have 3 times a day we got to get outside for 15 mins and be physical.

Now, at least here in Alabama...in the elementary schools, there are NO recesses. They get PE time only ONCE a week. When they start 5th grade, they get a full hour of Physical education. But I find it very important that elementary kids get several times a day to stretch and be physical.

If families are not active in the home, this too can cause problems. Kids are not meant to sit around all day.

One punishment I never use is grounding them from going outside. I might restrict them to playing in the yard, but I never use the rights to outside activity as a punishment. Instead of give them physical chores, like tending to the yard work, picking up the yard and liter.

As a family, we go down to the river and pick up trash that others leave there. This again, is a physical activity and shows them that if others can not be respectable to the Earth and the water....then there is nothing wrong with us taking on that responsibility ourselves. If is a river we visit weekly because its right by our home...and we have picked up trash there as a family many times.

I worry that many kids now days...come home from school...and get to just sit around without responsibilities in the home.

Plus if you buy junk food dont expect your kids to not eat it. Sometimes that means the whole family needs to be willing to be the example.

Video games are such a big thing for my oldest son. I have to set times for him to play the games. No more then a hour a day. I feel as long as homework is done, this is a good way for him to relax from school....but then after that hour is up....he can either go out and play or read books. TV time is saved for a hour before bed....and we observe what they can and cant watch. After they have their hour, the TV gets turned onto history channel or animal planet.

There are plenty of ways to structure a home to keep kids from just wondering around the home after school.

reply to post by Skyfloating


Nobody said it was a MENTAL ILLNESS. ADHD is classified as a learning disorder. (Of course, that new category was made up especially for ADD/ADHD.)

Still, there are inherit struggles that people with ADD / ADHD face.

So many times I've been on ATS and read threads that start out bashing the pharmaceutical industry then going on to say there is some "magic cure." This thread is different in that is denies ADHD is a problem at all.

Anyway, when new drugs come out or new uses for drugs are "discovered," then new disorders are coined. What is just a common, everyday fact of life today will be tomorrow's next major "problem" to be capitalized on by drug companies. But, that's how it is. Whining about the rich guy profiting off of treatments only makes you look jealous or bitter.

reply to post by Skyfloating

If you're thinking"how can he REALLY believe that?

oh, yes indeedy - I surely am :-)

...I thought he was better than that"...

let's just say this thread seems to be an anomaly when compared to the many, many other threads you've authored

this one feels like a speed trap

and I feel a little pissed at myself for having been caught - it's not like I didn't see you sitting there :-)

I believe what I said in the OP and continue to do so despite all the "evidence" that Millions of kids are ill.

I don't think they're ill either Sky

and you said you read every single post :-)

most of us have been saying this all along - it's not an illness

but it has to be an illness in order for you not to believe in it - so, there you go

P.S. I don't believe you believe your own OP

so sue me

:-)

reply to post by Skyfloating


I understand what you're saying. As the parent of a 4th grader diagnosed with ADD and possibly Aspbergers, I wish the school system would separate children according to the way they learn, but I'm not sure how practical that would be. Although I was never diagnosed as a child, I know I have it as well. No matter how hard I tried in school, my mind would wander. I would try my hardest to pay attention, but the moment one stray thought about something I was interested in entered my head, next thing I know I spaced out on ten minutes of the lesson, and would be lost. I still have trouble paying attention to training updates at work, and usually have to just do it myself to learn it.

I don't want my son to suffer the way I did. I'm torn because I also don't want to give him meds, but I feel there's little choice at this point. As others have said, society has changed from the times when it wasn't necessary to switch gears as much. Now, kids with this learning style, as much as they are little geniuses, will be left behind because not all lessons cater to their need to be interested, and hyper-stimulated by a lesson or task at all times. It also does affect the way other kids see them, and you often see them playing by themselves, either because they are cast out, or other kids don't want to play what THEY want to play, and again, they can't switch gears and compromise. As much as we all want to say we don't care what others think, we're a social animal, and our psychological well being does depend on some level of acceptance.

Sky, I have read several of your threads and I can't really think of too many that didn't hold my interest for like five pages at least. For me, that doesn't happen often on here. You punch people in the mouth with mountains of evidence, sources and information to support every facet of your thread topic and I had actually come to expect that of you. I can't say that this thread fits into that description, though.

People are getting so angry with you not because you are presenting an alternative viewpoint, but because you are presenting it as fact without even a single source or shred of evidence. You say ADHD doesn't exist and don't seem to care much about any differing opinion. It's like you're just looking for people to agree with you.

So far, I've seen people post books on Amazon of people who agree with you and you say "Wow, it's nice to see professionals agreeing with me." When a mother says she agrees with you, you say "I'm glad mothers agree with me on this too." However, when people (as I and many others did) tell a little of their story and experience with ADHD, you say things like "You're normal, that's nothing" and "That happens to everyone." When a mother says she disagrees with you, you say things like "That's just how a kid is, there's nothing wrong with him." People show sources in support of ADHD and you say things like "Oh it was just something talking about smaller brains or something", yet you were all excited about a couple books on Amazon? No sources, no evidence, just claims and you feel it's okay to just tell people nothing is wrong with them even though you don't know these people nor have you walked a day in their shoes.

It's your condescending tone that people are taking issue with and your seemingly arrogant approach to this topic. It's like you are talking down to people. I would also be curious to know what other disorders you don't think are real. How would you feel if you had some kind of medical disorder that you've suffered with all your life and some know-it-all on the internet insisted that it wasn't real and that you were fine. It happens to everyone, it's just the man trying to give you medicine. I think your response would be quite emotional as well just like others have replied to you in this thread. I am not a fan of big pharma just as you and many others on this thread, but I'm not about to go around telling people whom I don't know that their suffering isn't real and it's just one giant conspiracy to shove pills down your throat in every one of these situations. Over-diagnosed? Absolutely. Kids are on too much medication? Absolutely. That makes every case of ADD/ADHD ridiculous and based on nothing? Absolutely NOT! There are kids who had ADHD as a child still have the ADD as an adult and have been around long enough to know that most other people don't function the way they do.

By the way, I haven't taken any medication in almost 15 years and refuse to go on any again. I just deal with ADD the best I can on my own, but it's certainly there and I certainly know that how I am is not how most people are as far as the ADD is concerned. I hope to see more of your high quality threads in the future, but you really went about this one all wrong IMO.

[edit on 24-8-2010 by Kratos1220]

Originally posted by glitchinmymatrix
Nobody said it was a MENTAL ILLNESS. ADHD is classified as a learning disorder. (Of course, that new category was made up especially for ADD/ADHD.)

That would be an interesting twist of things. Isnt the DSM the Manual of Mental Disorders?

So many times I've been on ATS and read threads that start out bashing the pharmaceutical industry then going on to say there is some "magic cure."

Yes, but Im OK with limited drug use and Im not offering the magic cure.

Originally posted by Spiramirabilis
I don't believe you believe your own OP

Right, I spend hours and hours in thread, subjecting myself to anger for something I dont believe in.

reply to post by LooseLipsSinkShips


What the hell are you talking about. RLS is a real condition. It seems like some people get to a point, and they believe nothing at all and make up stuff about what people are feeling, as if they know them. Go check it out! no one is saying that RLS is not real, only you!

Originally posted by Kratos1220
People are getting so angry with you not because you are presenting an alternative viewpoint, but because you are presenting it as fact without even a single source or shred of evidence. You say ADHD doesn't exist and don't seem to care much about any differing opinion. It's like you're just looking for people to agree with you.

If I were looking for people to agree with me Id have created another thread topic. Im not looking for agreement, Im looking to have an alternative view and the counter-arguments to it heard and saved on Google-Search. That has been achieved.

I get in "trouble" with almost any thread I make, including the well-researched ones, for the simple reason that there are a lot of angry people around. If they are not angry at this opinion, they`ll be angry at something else.

It's your condescending tone that people are taking issue with and your seemingly arrogant approach to this topic.

Im staying with my view that ADHD does not exist. Somebody showing me brain-scans of how a child that is unconcentrated has different things happening in her brain does not make "evidence that he has a mental disorder". Id EXPECT his brain to behave differently while unconcentrated.

That can be seen as arrogant but its only challenging the status quo.
I have already gone softer on the original statement in conceding to some cases really being worthy of treatment.

It's like you are talking down to people. I would also be curious to know what other disorders you don't think are real. How would you feel if you had some kind of medical disorder that you've suffered with all your life and some know-it-all on the internet insisted that it wasn't real and that you were fine. It happens to everyone, it's just the man trying to give you medicine. I think your response would be quite emotional as well just like others have replied to you in this thread

My view on "mental disorders" and differs from that of mainstream society.

I will give a brief summary of that view: If some toxin or some problem in life or some negative influence causing my state to be low or "abnormal", I should not be drugged or counseled in order to "feel good". Popping a pill and "Feeling good" in face of, say, crime in my family or dental fillings is not solving the root cause of my feeling bad. Removing the root cause would be reason to "feel good".

But we have been conditioned at "feel good QUICKLY" and INSTANT RELIEF instead of researching deeper causes.

This has nothing to do with not emphasizing with peoples suffering, its merely a different approach to their suffering.

With ADHD the case is even worse because it is not conclusively proven that all of these children are suffering.

I am not a fan of big pharma just as you and many others on this thread, but I'm not about to go around telling people whom I don't know that their suffering isn't real

Throughout this thread my stance is continually being misrepresented as "suffering is not real".

This is big-pharma talking. They say: "If you dont take our pills you are a coldhearted and have no feelings for other peoples suffering". What nonsense.

NOWHERE did I say suffering is not real.

[edit on 24-8-2010 by Skyfloating]

I've read through about 13 pages of this thread so far but wanted to post before reading the rest. Several issues I'd like to point out, and I hope like hell I can remember most of them. This is going to be a long post, so all you who don't suffer from ADD/ADHD, it should be a breeze to read.

When I was a kid in school there was no such thing as ADD/ADHD, I was labeled a 'daydreamer'. I could not focus or concentrate on anything for more than a minute or two. Even if I was very interested in the subject, and really wanted to listen and understand what was being said, I just could not concentrate. I'd hear the words coming out of the teachers mouth and understand the first few sentences, but after that, all I heard was " bla bla bla bla. No amount of pinching myself, head shaking, or eye blinking would get me to focus on what was being said. I stared at the teacher, trying desperately to get her words into my head and stay there long enough for me to comprehend, but staring only lead to my spacing out and not hearing a single word.

I knew my brain wasn't working like everyone else's. I tried very hard to hid my problem from everyone and was terrified someone would find out. No, there was no label back then. I labeled myself as stupid, even thinking I might be slightly retarded. My grades were awful, and looking back, I have no idea how I passed from one grade to the next.

As an adult with add, it is still very humiliating to me and it has gotten harder and harder to hide. My lack of attention, focus, concentration, and extreme forgetfulness has hindered me in life. I know all this information is in my brain somewhere, but I just can't bring it to the surface to where it needs to be. I am not able to do simple tasks because I can not remember what those tasks are. I am only able to hold jobs where I am doing something in repetition and any slight variation will totally screw me up. Do you have any idea how humiliating it is to have a job that almost any teenager can do quite easily as a first job, have a teenager for a boss, and have that teenage boss rip you to shreds because you screw up so much? Let me tell you, working at Subway was such a challenge for me. Go ahead and laugh. I went home crying many times because I felt so bad. When a customer would tell me what they wanted on their sub, the minute it left their mouth and entered my ears, I had already forgotten the order. I pretended I was hard of hearing so asking them to repeat the order several times became the only option I had. This was not just occasional, this was constant.

Taking my child to the Dr. was extremely difficult for me. As the Dr. is telling me what I needed to do for my child, I could not focus, nor remember a word the Dr. said. Asking them to repeat it over and over again, or to tell me in short 1. 2. 3. sentences and my writing it down is the only way I could remember--and hope to high heaven I would not lose the written reminder.

Those are just two examples of what I struggle with on a day to day basis. For me, it is a combination of severe forgetfulness with total lack of concentration and inability to focus. It is a minute by minute struggle every single day. It takes me much longer to complete any task, even house cleaning because I walk from room to room forgetting what I came in there for or getting distracted some other way.

There are so many topics on this board that I find extremely interesting,and most times I'm afraid to reply because I can not put my thoughts together well enough and am afraid I won't be able to write a paragraph that makes sense and most times I dare not reply to an interesting topic because I would never be able to debate anyone. The information is all scattered in my brain and will not come together to form a complete thought.

At the age of 42, I finally talked it over with my dr. She diagnosed me with add and prescribed me adderall. I am not one for taking medicine period, ( in fact, from age 13 -42, I had not had any medicine except for an occasional aspirin) but when you get to a certain point, trying something that might help you, can't hurt.

Adderall has helped me immensly. I don't take it every day, but I do take it when I need to be able to listen, focus, understand and remember things. It is like the fog has been lifted and all the files in my brain are in the correct folders and when I need access to a file, I am able to quickly find it, bring it to the surface and use that file correctly. I do not get a high from it, and I do not feel medicated. I feel clear headed for the first time in my life. I still don't have the confidence to take on certain tasks ( i.e. jobs) because having add my entire life has lead to my having zero confidence in myself.

Whether or not you want to label it add, this is a very real problem for people. For someone to say it doesn't exist, all I can say is if you could walk a day in my shoes you might change your mind.


Edited to add that had I been prescribed adderall as a child, it would have made a world of difference in my ability to learn and would have given me the confidence I've lacked since childhood.

Oh, and my daughter has adhd and I've mentioned that on another thread, but will not repeat it in this one.

[edit on 24-8-2010 by virraszto]