Troops Punished After Refusing to Attend Evangelical Concert

Originally posted by ViperMX-USAF


Well if you would like to see an outdoor Pagan area come and join the Air Force.

I know about the outdoor Pagan area at the Air Force Academy because of the news reports of it being desecrated.

I'm not sure where your ideas about the military come from, but in reality, if you haven't lived it you probably don't understand it.

What do I need to understand? A general planned a Christian concert. That's very plain and simple.

He did NOT plan a multi-belief concert.

I am a Spiritual Humanist. However - I believe people who are putting their life on the line benefit from uplifting events.

What if this general put on an all Islamic concert? You'd be reading a lot of angry posts in this thread. It would not be accepted as OK.

reply to post by arcnaver

Explanation: Uhmmm?

You also do not know that a significant amount of your perceived constitutional rights are suppressed during your enlistment in the Military. You are governed by the UCMJ then the Constitution.

And yet... US Constitution (specifically Article 6) [wiki]

From source linked directly above...

Article Six: Federal power
Article Six establishes the Constitution, and the laws and treaties of the United States made according to it, to be the supreme law of the land, and that "the judges in every state shall be bound thereby, any thing in the laws or constitutions of any state notwithstanding." It also validates national debt created under the Articles of Confederation and requires that all federal and state legislators, officers, and judges take oaths or affirmations to support the Constitution. This means that the states' constitutions and laws should not conflict with the laws of the federal constitution and that in case of a conflict, state judges are legally bound to honor the federal laws and constitution over those of any state.

Article Six also states "no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States."

And the UCMJ gets its authority from where?....

Uniform Code of Military Conduct (specifically history) [wiki]

On 30 June 1775, the Second Continental Congress established 69 Articles of War to govern the conduct of the Continental Army.

Effective upon its ratification in 1789, Article I, Section 8 of the United States Constitution provided that Congress has the power to regulate the land and naval forces.[1] On 10 April 1806, the United States Congress enacted 101 Articles of War (which applied to both the Army and the Navy), which were not significantly revised until over a century later. The military justice system continued to operate under the Articles of War until 31 May 1951, when the Uniform Code of Military Justice went into effect.

The UCMJ was passed by Congress on 5 May 1950, signed into law by President Harry S. Truman, and became effective on 31 May 1951. The word Uniform in the Code's title refers to the congressional intent to make military justice uniform or consistent among the armed services.

The current version of the UCMJ is printed in the latest edition of the Manual for Courts-Martial (2008), incorporating changes made by the President (executive orders) and National Defense Authorization Acts of 2006 and 2007.

It's the Constitution of course!

Personal Disclosure: Care to refute with some evidence to the contrary so as to back up that unfounded claim promoted in your post?

If this concert had been Islam focused -- the discussion on this thread would be vastly different.

There would be no excuses allowed because of military rules and discipline.

Or what the Constitution says.

Originally posted by Kernoonos
G'day all,

This guy did the right thing, you should not be made to attend christine evangelist brain washing concerts, and that’s what they are.

:

They didn't attend. They chose to work instead of attending a concert.

Guranteed, if your boss threw a birthday party for the owner of the company you would be there lock step with the rest. Singing happy birthday to a person you don't even know. Especially small business. Which makes up 70% of all hiring.

Originally posted by Annee
If this concert had been Islam focused -- the discussion on this thread would be vastly different.

There would be no excuses allowed because of military rules and discipline.

Or what the Constitution says.

Maybe....

But I highly doubt the military would put on a muslim concert. but you do have a point.

Explantion: Seriously poor form from most of the members posting to this thread! Here is why...

6 freaking pages in and still members are refering to some anonymous General... complete failure to research!

Here is the CO in question...

www.af.mil...

LIEUTENANT GENERAL JAMES E. CHAMBERS

Retired Dec. 1, 1994.

Lieutenant General James E. Chambers is commander, 17th Air Force; commander, ATOC-3; and commander, SOC-3, Sembach Air Base, Germany.

General Chambers was born in Havana, Ill., in 1936, where he graduated from Havana High School in 1954. He earned a bachelor of science degree in economics from Bradley University in 1959. He completed Squadron Officer School in 1964, Air Command and Staff College in 1971, the National War College in 1979, and attended Harvard's School of Government Senior Manager Program in 1988.

After graduating from Bradley University, he was commissioned as a second lieutenant through the Air Force Reserve Officer Training Corps program. He began flight training in July 1959 at Malden Air Force Base, Mo., and received his wings at Laredo Air Force Base, Texas. General Chambers remained there and served as an instructor pilot with the 3640th Fighter Training Wing from July 1960 to October 1964. He then was assigned as a faculty member of the Squadron Officer School, Maxwell Air Force Base, Ala., until July 1966, when he was transferred to McConnell Air Force Base, Kan., for F-105 training.

In December 1966 General Chambers was assigned to the 44th Tactical Fighter Squadron, 388th Tactical Fighter Wing, Korat Royal Thai Air Force Base, Thailand, as an F-105D combat pilot and flew 108 missions over North Vietnam. He returned to the United States in October 1967 and was assigned to the 23rd Tactical Fighter Wing, 563rd Tactical Fighter Squadron, McConnell Air Force Base, as an F-105D flight commander. After completing Air Command and Staff College, Maxwell Air Force Base, in June 1971, the general was assigned to Hurlburt Field, Fla., as a fighter operations instructor at the U.S. Air Force Air Ground Operations School.

Returning to Southeast Asia in November 1972, General Chambers served as an F-4 combat flight commander with the 497th Tactical Fighter Squadron Night Owls and as chief of the 8th Tactical Fighter Wing's Standardization and Evaluation Division, Ubon Royal Thai Air Force Base, Thailand. There he flew combat missions over Vietnam, Laos and Cambodia.

In June 1974 General Chambers became an F-4E operations officer with the 31st Tactical Fighter Wing, 307th Tactical Fighter Squadron, Homestead Air Force Base, Fla. From September 1975 to November 1977 he was commander of the 70th Tactical Fighter Squadron, Moody Air Force Base, Ga. He then was transferred to Headquarters U.S. Air Force, Washington, D.C., as assistant director for force development.

After completing National War College, Fort Lesley J. McNair, Washington, D.C., in June 1979, General Chambers returned to Air Force headquarters as deputy assistant for Joint and National Security Council matters, Directorate of Plans, Office of the Deputy Chief of Staff, Plans and Readiness. In August 1980 he was assigned to the 479th Tactical Training Wing, Holloman Air Force Base, N.M., serving successively as the wing's deputy commander for operations, vice commander and commander.

From October 1982 to March 1984 he commanded the 49th Tactical Fighter Wing, also at Holloman Air Force Base. He then served as assistant deputy chief of staff for plans, Headquarters Tactical Air Command, Langley Air Force Base, Va., and became assistant deputy chief of staff for operations In August 1984. In July 1985 he was assigned as deputy director for operations, Headquarters U.S. Pacific Command, Camp H.M. Smith, Hawaii. In September 1987 he became deputy chief of staff for operations, Headquarters Pacific Air Forces, Hickam Air Force Base, Hawaii. He assumed his present duties in October 1989.

The general is a command pilot with more than 5,500 flying hours in the F-105, F-4 and F-15. His military awards and decorations include the Defense Superior Service Medal, Legion of Merit, Distinguished Flying Cross with three oak leaf clusters, Meritorious Service Medal with three oak leaf clusters, Air Medal with 21 oak leaf clusters, Air Force Commendation Medal with oak leaf cluster, Presidential Unit Citation and Combat Readiness Medal with three oak leaf clusters.

(Current as of March 1993)

His current picture...



And the article OL sourced his picture from...

Maj. Gen. James E. Chambers Hazes Soldiers in his Command (August 20, 2010 by ylooshi) [breakingspells.net]

From Source article linked directly above...

Harsh words, but that’s the way it seems to pan out.

Hazing, under Army Regulation 600-20 (4-20):

“is defined as any conduct whereby one military member or employee, regardless of Service or rank, unnecessarily causes another military member or employee, regardless of Service or rank, to suffer or be exposed to an activity that is cruel, abusive, oppressive, or harmful.“

And that’s what the Major General, former commander of the Combined Arms Support Command at Fort Lee, VA, did when he created the Commander’s Spiritual Fitness Concerts and pressured his commanding officers and non commissioned officers to mandate that soldiers either attend or be punished. “Soliciting or coercing another to participate in any such activity is also considered hazing.”

[Note please refer to link for full story OK!]

Now also from the original article linked in the 1st post of this thread...

[linked again here for convienience] www.truth-out.org...

The concert was part of a series of "spiritual fitness" music events at Fort Eustis and nearby Fort Lee instituted by born-again Christian Gen. James E. Chambers, according to an article on the Army's website.

The article link to the Army's website revealed...

Fort Lee Commanding General Reaches Out to Soldiers (Jul 09, 2008 by T. Anthony Bell, Fort Lee Public Affairs) [army.mil]

"The easiest way to get to Soldiers today is through a phone or music," he noted. "Through those means, you can change behavior, and that's what I'm looking forward to more than anything else."

Chambers said that his Family was not much of a church-going one, but his friends did attend and so did he. At 16, he was reborn as a Christian.

"That had a big influence on changing my lifestyle," he recalled.

At Fort Eustis, he promoted a series of concerts, featuring Christian performers, aimed at awakening Soldiers' spiritual awareness.

A concert series at Fort Lee, to be held quarterly, is a continuation of that outreach.

"The idea is not to be a proponent for any one religion," he said. "It's to have a mix of different performers with different religious backgrounds."

Personal Disclosure: OL is typing this with a broken right hand [go on laugh it up as I have already paid for it! ] and is sick and tired of quoting the US Constitution to US ATS members [some who claim to have been or are currently enlisted] when OL is an Australian! WTFH?

Originally posted by OmegaLogos
Explantion: Seriously poor form from most of the members posting to this thread!

Here is why...

6 freaking pages in and still members are refering to some anonymous General... complete failure to research!

Here is the CO in question...

www.af.mil...

Seriously poor form? Dude, that's the wrong General Officer!!

You have posted the bio of an US Air Force Lieutenant General (three stars) and the person who's chops are being busted over this is a US Army Major General (two stars). Not to mention the AF General is retired.

Complete failure to research.

reply to post by Parallex


No this is a fantastic trend. I like militant evangelism. This country is lost and going to hell. It needs a revival and it has to start with the youth. The only problem would be if they actually attempted to force conversions or a specific denomination on the youths.

The fact is all of the public government education camps do nothing but promote their state religion, namely atheism. Look what thats' done for America, destroyed it.


I believe the Taliban's America born spokesman, who went to school with my younger brother, was forced to attend Islamic camp by some insane liberal multi-culturalists. That started his conversion process to the devils religion, and his terrorist career. These liberals are the same ones who are now screaming the loudest about this non-event.

lol christian rawk

Second line.

Originally posted by SevenThunders
reply to post by Parallex

 

No this is a fantastic trend. I like militant evangelism. This country is lost and going to hell. It needs a revival and it has to start with the youth. The only problem would be if they actually attempted to force conversions or a specific denomination on the youths.

The fact is all of the public government education camps do nothing but promote their state religion, namely atheism. Look what thats' done for America, destroyed it.


I believe the Taliban's America born spokesman, who went to school with my younger brother, was forced to attend Islamic camp by some insane liberal multi-culturalists. That started his conversion process to the devils religion, and his terrorist career. These liberals are the same ones who are now screaming the loudest about this non-event.

Dang, have you listened to yourself lately?

Good on him!

He's already putting his life on the line, why does he have to be forced into listening to #ty Christian rock bands?

Originally posted by Violater1
Time and time again, various posters will state the the founding fathers are Christian men, and that they desired the perpetuation of this belief to ascend through the future of America. Opposing posters always provide bogus websites that smear this American dogma.

Then perhaps the Founders shouldn't have put this at the very beginning of the Bill of Rights:

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof

.

Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by badgerprints
I remember basic training.

25 years ago.

Those who wanted to go see "The Goonies" were marched off to the post theater.

The Goonies - - - has nothing to do with forcing a specific religious belief.

Once again......in the army, especially basic training, you get one choice in entertainment. That choice is whatever they offer or kp/police call/cleaning or something else to keep you busy.

If it had been anything but a faith based concert then nobody would have a thing to say.

Their choice was to go to a concert or to stay on base and work.

What has everyone's knickers in a twist is the fact that it was a Christian concert.

Don't want to go? Then don't freaking go.

Back to my example. The ones who didn't want to see a lousy movie weren't being "punished" for not seeing the movie. They were given busy work because they made a choice between a concert and busy work.

They were not coerced. They made a choice.

Same goes for the poor "Victims" of Christian opression that are being mourned here.

If yo have never served then you have no business commenting on this thread. If and that's a big if you are offered an entertainment opion while in training, you may attend that or you clean. THat's it. The faith of the band is not televant. It's is universally applicable. Nobody was forced into going.

Did anyone complain about Kool and the Gang? Half the band is Muslim. The Delfonics. The Blue Notes. ohn Coltrane. Cat Stevenes. Or when Bernard Hopkins and Ali came to see the troops? When David Chappelle did his show? Everlasts show? Jimmy Cliff? Kareem Abdhul Jabaar visiting the troops? Snoop Dogg? All of those are Muslims or members of the Nation Of Islam(snoop) who have entertained our troops in events where if you were in training you could attend or be the latraine queen for the evening.

Mos Def did a show, devout atheist. Madonna-whatever the hell she is. Tribe called quest. Ghostface Killah. John Mellancamp. Jodeci. Fantasia. Dixie Chicks-Anti us and military. Slayer has performed for the troops,, christians and satanists in the same band. Black Sabbath is catholoic but had several antichristian sngs. THe Four Seasons. Argh Bon Jovi is Catholic.


The US military allows protestants, catholics, jews, muslims,devil wroshipers. etc to play thes shows. The recuiements were the same, attend the contert or go back to your menial lablor, cleaning the latraine, the barracks or policing te grounds.

And someone said only protestant churches are on bases. LIES. There is a mosque in the pentaon. There are chaplains which are members of almost every religion.The Chapel's are dedigned to accommadate any religion.

The fact is muslims, jews, catholics, protestants, atheist, agnostics are allowed to perform for he troops.There are no religous events that the militaryrequires attendance at, any branch. Th MP's have actually arrested someone in BOQ for saying Halleluja loud enough for thier neighbor to hear.

THe US armed services isn' forcing anyone to support or convert to a religion.As a matter of fact is frowned upon

If yo have never served then you have no business commenting on this thread. If and that's a big if you are offered an entertainment opion while in training, you may attend that or you clean. THat's it. The faith of the band is not televant. It's is universally applicable. Nobody was forced into going.

Did anyone complain about Kool and the Gang? Half the band is Muslim. The Delfonics. The Blue Notes. ohn Coltrane. Cat Stevenes. Or when Bernard Hopkins and Ali came to see the troops? When David Chappelle did his show? Everlasts show? Jimmy Cliff? Kareem Abdhul Jabaar visiting the troops? Snoop Dogg? All of those are Muslims or members of the Nation Of Islam(snoop) who have entertained our troops in events where if you were in training you could attend or be the latraine queen for the evening.

Mos Def did a show, devout atheist. Madonna-whatever the hell she is. Tribe called quest. Ghostface Killah. John Mellancamp. Jodeci. Fantasia. Dixie Chicks-Anti us and military. Slayer has performed for the troops,, christians and satanists in the same band. Black Sabbath is catholoic but had several antichristian sngs. THe Four Seasons. Argh Bon Jovi is Catholic.


The US military allows protestants, catholics, jews, muslims,devil wroshipers. etc to play thes shows. The recuiements were the same, attend the contert or go back to your menial lablor, cleaning the latraine, the barracks or policing te grounds.

And someone said only protestant churches are on bases. LIES. There is a mosque in the pentaon. There are chaplains which are members of almost every religion.The Chapel's are dedigned to accommadate any religion.

The fact is muslims, jews, catholics, protestants, atheist, agnostics are allowed to perform for he troops.There are no religous events that the militaryrequires attendance at, any branch. Th MP's have actually arrested someone in BOQ for saying Halleluja loud enough for thier neighbor to hear.

THe US armed services isn' forcing anyone to support or convert to a religion.As a matter of fact is frowned upon

Originally posted by badgerprints

Once again......in the army, especially basic training, you get one choice in entertainment. That choice is whatever they offer or kp/police call/cleaning or something else to keep you busy.

Oh - and that makes it right?

Thankfully we are progressing in this world that we no longer have to accept something - - just because its always been done that way.

You know Damn Well - - if this had been a full on Islam concert - - you would object

Forced Christianity (or other) has no business in any government assignment. EVER!

Forcing Christianity has been an on going problem in the military. It is not just this one concert.

Originally posted by DrJay1975
If yo have never served then you have no business commenting on this thread. If and that's a big if you are offered an entertainment opion while in training, you may attend that or you clean. THat's it. The faith of the band is not televant. It's is universally applicable. Nobody was forced into going.

Bull Pucky. Who do you think pays your salary?

Forced Christianity has been an ongoing problem in the military.

As a supporter of NO Religion in government - - I'm been interested in these kinds of stories for years. This is hardly the first or only offense.

However - - any person putting their life on the line should have a right to feel close to their god. Diversity is the key.

Originally posted by Whine Flu

Dang, have you listened to yourself lately?

I'm starting to get pissed off and I'm ranting more these days it's true.
Although I know it's part of the plan to create confusion and agitation among the people, aka Saul Alinsky's 4th rule

randomthots.org...

Nevertheless I'm going to continue to vent, because the outcome of our current path is rather obvious and destructive.

The hullabaloo about a little evangelical concert is really a distraction and a non-event. The fact that someone is making a stink about it falls again under the communist Alinsky's 4th rule. The soldiers were in fact under no compulsion to attend, but the communists desire to make it appear to be a violation of the 1rst amendment. An amendment they themselves wish to abolish at the earliest convenience. Typical tactics, but we should be wise to this by now.

wow im surprised that i would ever see this getting media attention. i was there while all of this happend at yes it was pretty rediculous how they punished us for not going to this concert.smith was actully in my class and is a good friend of mine.im glad that this is getting attention. its rediculous how all of our cadre there supported eachother and tryed to save them selfs while punishing us for soemthing that they couldt of done anyway