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Ron Paul: Left and the Right Demagogue Mosque, Islam

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posted on Aug, 21 2010 @ 12:31 AM

“Is the controversy over building a mosque near ground zero a grand distraction or a grand opportunity? Or is it, once again, grandiose demagoguery?

“It has been said, “Nero fiddled while Rome burned.” Are we not overly preoccupied with this controversy, now being used in various ways by grandstanding politicians? It looks to me like the politicians are “fiddling while the economy burns.”

“The debate should have provided the conservative defenders of property rights with a perfect example of how the right to own property also protects the 1st Amendment rights of assembly and religion by supporting the building of the mosque.

“Instead, we hear lip service given to the property rights position while demanding that the need to be “sensitive” requires an all-out assault on the building of a mosque, several blocks from “ground zero.”

Well he is absolutely correct here!
Doesn't anyone else find it odd HOW MUCH coverage this stupid topic has gotten over the last several days?

“The claim is that we are in the Middle East to protect our liberties is misleading. To continue this charade, millions of Muslims are indicted and we are obligated to rescue them from their religious and political leaders. And, we’re supposed to believe that abusing our liberties here at home and pursuing unconstitutional wars overseas will solve our problems.

“The nineteen suicide bombers didn’t come from Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan or Iran. Fifteen came from our ally Saudi Arabia, a country that harbors strong American resentment, yet we invade and occupy Iraq where no al Qaeda existed prior to 9/11.

How come Ron Paul is the only one saying this in Washington?
Is everyone scared?

“Many fellow conservatives say they understand the property rights and 1st Amendment issues and don’t want a legal ban on building the mosque. They just want everybody to be “sensitive” and force, through public pressure, cancellation of the mosque construction.

“This sentiment seems to confirm that Islam itself is to be made the issue, and radical religious Islamic views were the only reasons for 9/11. If it became known that 9/11 resulted in part from a desire to retaliate against what many Muslims saw as American aggression and occupation, the need to demonize Islam would be difficult if not impossible.

Ya I understand people's emotion, but i'm just not with all the "feelings" argument.
It's a fairly bland argument with little or no substance.
I still see where they are coming from though.

“If Islam is further discredited by making the building of the mosque the issue, then the false justification for our wars in the Middle East will continue to be acceptable.

“The justification to ban the mosque is no more rational than banning a soccer field in the same place because all the suicide bombers loved to play soccer.


Spot on!

“Conservatives are once again, unfortunately, failing to defend private property rights, a policy we claim to cherish. In addition conservatives missed a chance to challenge the hypocrisy of the left which now claims they defend property rights of Muslims, yet rarely if ever, the property rights of American private businesses.

I think this is VERY important, neither side is your friend and both of them are allies.
This is all a HOAX!

This is a very important statement here everyone should realize!

“It is repeatedly said that 64% of the people, after listening to the political demagogues, don’t want the mosque to be built. What would we do if 75% of the people insist that no more Catholic churches be built in New York City? The point being is that majorities can become oppressors of minority rights as well as individual dictators. Statistics of support is irrelevant when it comes to the purpose of government in a free society—protecting liberty.

“The outcry over the building of the mosque, near ground zero, implies that Islam alone was responsible for the 9/11 attacks. According to those who are condemning the building of the mosque, the nineteen suicide terrorists on 9/11 spoke for all Muslims. This is like blaming all Christians for the wars of aggression and occupation because some Christians supported the neo-conservative’s aggressive wars.

Right on again!

I don't get why people don't think like this, why can't people think like:
"if the situation was reversed how would I feel, this should help me gauge if I am right or wrong".

“The House Speaker is now treading on a slippery slope by demanding a Congressional investigation to find out just who is funding the mosque—a bold rejection of property rights, 1st Amendment rights, and the Rule of Law—in order to look tough against Islam.

“This is all about hate and Islamaphobia.

“We now have an epidemic of “sunshine patriots” on both the right and the left who are all for freedom, as long as there’s no controversy and nobody is offended.

“Political demagoguery rules when truth and liberty are ignored.”

Ya sunshine patriots.

This all sucks and both the left AND the right are in on it!

posted on Aug, 21 2010 @ 12:55 AM
reply to post by ModernAcademia

Yep yep yep! And as I attempt to communicate this message to my friends, they tell me to stop reading newspapers and watching liberal news shows.

Yeah, like I should only watch Fox News like them.

It's really sad how so many people are getting so caught up in this obvious, to me, distraction.

This issue, I believe, is really accomplishing its purpose. At least that is how I perceive it.

And just what is that purpose? I'm not sure, but when the magician waves his right hand, if you want to know what else he is doing, try watching his left hand.

posted on Aug, 21 2010 @ 02:16 AM
RP is absolutety right on this one. However is himself part of the conspiracy or not? Meaning whoever the president will be 2012, he'll be the one to lead the war against Islam. Since things seem going toward that direction.

posted on Aug, 21 2010 @ 10:21 AM
reply to post by ModernAcademia

How come Ron Paul is the only one saying this in Washington?
Is everyone scared?

The outcry was orchestrated by a well funded PR firm. Accuracy, of course, was not the aim. "Ground Zero Mosque" left many people with the impression that the memorial planned for ground zero was to be a mosque, quite intentional. And by the way, It was planned blocks away

Election year. So every demagogue and politician HAS to make some kind of statement. This is America where pandering to ignorance and fear gets you farther faster.

I heard a Republican congressman(up for re-election) on the radio say "putting a mosque there is like painting a swastika on a synagogue." What??? Building a cultural center that includes a house of prayer is the same as defacing a house of prayer???

Tolerance and understanding are truly dead in America, and well funded PR is behind it. They hate us for our freedom, the PR people that is.

Here are the names folks: underline mine

SIOA Rally Calls for Halt to Plans for Ground Zero Mosque

NEW YORK, May 11 /PRNewswire-USNewswire/ -- The human rights group Stop Islamization of America (SIOA) is hosting a rally at Ground Zero to protest the construction of a mosque at the site of the Islamic terror attack that brought down the Twin Towers on September 11, 2001. SIOA is one of America's foremost organizations defending human rights, religious liberty, and the freedom of speech against Islamic supremacist intimidation and attempts to bring elements of Sharia to the United States.

Victims of 9/11 ­ those who lost family or friends, or who were injured on that day ­ are especially invited to attend the rally.

The SIOA No 9/11 Mosque Rally will be at

Ground Zero on June 6 at 12 noon.

Supporting groups (partial list): ACT for America (ACT Manhattan chapter); Z Street; Freedom Defense Initiative; No Mosque at Ground Zero; Faith Freedom International; Stuart Kaufman; American Bulldogs; VAST; and the Center for Security Policy.

[sorry, having trouble with that link]
I hope people know the difference between hate mongering and defending religious liberty and freedom of speech.

[edit on 21-8-2010 by pthena]

posted on Aug, 21 2010 @ 10:37 AM
Of course it's a cleverly orchestrated hoax based on nothing but post hoc, vaporous arguments and outright lies to present or drum up some sort of faux unity behind the Zionist neocons in politics and the media who HAVE no allegiances but to their own ends in the Middle East and Central Asia. It reeks of their style. They continue their tricks of preying upon peoples' fears, emotions, politics, and religions to get them to clump together behind a cause that in the end benefits only them. It was pretty obvious from the start who the originating culprits were.

Came back to add, not a hoax, actually, but a scam and a sham and just more of the same from this unrelenting bunch. They see the writing on the wall in that this administration isn't going to pander to them in the Middle East. This is a battle between them and the CFR. They'll play as dirty as they need to too.

[edit on 8/21/2010 by ~Lucidity]

posted on Aug, 21 2010 @ 11:08 AM
reply to post by ~Lucidity

What I find rather strange is, the muslims seem to play along with it, like there's already some sort of cosmic arrangement to it, the zionists and the jihadists ultimately are just pawn, too.

posted on Aug, 21 2010 @ 11:14 AM
reply to post by Jazzyguy
If you were muslim in America, and polls indicated that 65% of people in America would like you dead, how outspoken would you be?

On the otherhand, there are agents provocateur posing as muslim in America.

posted on Aug, 21 2010 @ 11:24 AM

Originally posted by pthena
reply to post by Jazzyguy
If you were muslim in America, and polls indicated that 65% of people in America would like you dead, how outspoken would you be?

Not just in america, in some other places there are skirmishis between christians and muslims, among other things. Like the israel "spy network" and the muslim extremist cells all over the world. Like a three way war between three organisms. I believe in the end the neocons will betray the zionists.

On the otherhand, there are agents provocateur posing as muslim in America.

I actually suspect this, they maybe even behind this "mosque" controversy, deep agents.

posted on Aug, 21 2010 @ 11:48 AM
reply to post by Jazzyguy
I used propaganda myself on you. No such poll has been taken in the US. The intimidation factor is real however.

There are some compelling reasons to believe Al Qaeda was created by the CIA, to cause trouble for Russia and Serbia. Whether CIA has lost control or not is debatable. They would probably like to regain control to use them against the "Shia heretics" in Iran.

The Neocons are the smart think-tank Zionist agents.

The Christian Zionists are a volatile group, that have caused some not small embarrassment in Israel, proselytizing and such (not welcome in Israel)

The Zionists are soon going to make their own version of Christianity that doesn't have any urge to proselytize. Oh wait, that's already underway.

[edit on 21-8-2010 by pthena]

posted on Aug, 21 2010 @ 11:49 AM
Finally a voice of reason in american politics regarding this distraction.

posted on Aug, 21 2010 @ 11:51 AM
reply to post by Jazzyguy

Some do, I suppose. From some reading I did a while back, it appears there are Muslim Zionists as well.

And an ex-Muslim, Walid Shoebat, now a Christian is a key neocon shill and was ground zero for many of the rumors about the community center project.

posted on Aug, 21 2010 @ 12:07 PM
Ron Paul is so amazing on issues like this. The irony gets more and more everyday as Americans sell out the idea of liberty and freedom a little bit at a time.

Freedom, Free Markets, Liberties.. these are what set us apart from the world. From a certain perspective it makes us unique and something that should be treasured and protected.

But Americans don't want freedom, they want to get in everyones business and manipulate eachother even politically to the point of social hell, political correctness, etc.

If they build the mosque my OPINION of Islam will go down a few notches, but I don't pretend that my opinion holds any influence on what another free citizen can or cannot do.

Next up in this charade: A Muslim American group that is against the mosque and gets on the news and radio. Watch the wheels keep turning.

[edit on 21-8-2010 by Novise]

posted on Aug, 21 2010 @ 12:20 PM
Sorry OP, I've been demagogue-ing. It's just so easy to fall into. I'll stop now.

posted on Aug, 21 2010 @ 12:32 PM

Originally posted by pthena
reply to post by Jazzyguy
I used propaganda myself on you. No such poll has been taken in the US. The intimidation factor is real however.

When I said not just in america, I mean not just the muslims in america who seem to play along with this. The muslims attack the christian first I believe in this case, I don't think it has anything to do with the global elite at all. More like, orchestrated by an invisible hand, more spontaneous.

Regarding polls, fake or not, I don't put too much weight into it, since I have my own sources and reasoning to come to a decision.

reply to post by ~Lucidity

How about RP, Lucidity? Do you trust him? People think the guy might be clean, but I just don't trust him.

posted on Aug, 21 2010 @ 01:41 PM
reply to post by Jazzyguy

Well...I voted for him three times, but I guess I'd have to say I trust him as much as I trust anyone in government...which is not at all. I do think we need to start implementing some of the policies he stands for, and ASAP, if we're going to make it. Especially in the areas of the Fed, foreign policy and global economics. Trouble is, even if we do that we're in for some even tougher times.

posted on Aug, 21 2010 @ 07:36 PM
reply to post by Jazzyguy

When I said not just in america, I mean not just the muslims in america who seem to play along with this. The muslims attack the christian first I believe in this case, I don't think it has anything to do with the global elite at all. More like, orchestrated by an invisible hand, more spontaneous.

I don't know what you mean by Muslims playing along, or attacking Christians first. Is it Faithfreedom group? "ex-Muslims" who love religious freedom and love the apartheid State of Israel too? Who love Persian people and therefore want Iran attacked to "liberate the Persians"?

Muslims fear backlash as festival falls near Sept. 11
For nearly a decade, the Islamic Cultural Center of Fresno has held a carnival on the Saturday following the end of Ramadan, during a festival that has been called the Muslim equivalent of Christmas. With pony rides, carnival attractions, games and Middle Eastern food, it's a popular event for the community's children.

This year, the center's leaders had a sense of foreboding when they noticed the date on which the carnival would fall: Sept. 11.

This week, after listening to escalating rhetoric over plans for an Islamic community center within blocks of the destroyed World Trade Center site in New York, the Fresno center canceled the carnival.

As for elites, you don't have to control world elites if you control the world hyper power (USA)

Here's a list of prominent neo-cons:
Elliott Abrams
Richard L. Armitage
Gary Bauer
John Bolton
Eliot Cohen
David Frum
Frank F. Gaffney, Jr.
Frederick Kagan
Robert Kagan
William Kristol
Richard Perle
Donald Rumsfeld
Gary Schmitt
Paul Wolfowitz
R. James Woolsey
Robert B. Zoellick

These are big time movers and shakers in US military and foreign policy making. Former or present Presidential speech writers, Intellectual magazine editors, UN ambassadors, top Pentagon officials, military strategic planners.
The Project for the New American Century (PNAC) was an American think tank based in Washington, D.C. that lasted from early 1997 to 2006. It was co-founded as a non-profit educational organization by neoconservatives William Kristol and Robert Kagan. The PNAC's stated goal was "to promote American global leadership." Fundamental to the PNAC were the view that "American leadership is both good for America and good for the world" and support for "a Reaganite policy of military strength and moral clarity."[2] The PNAC exerted influence on high-level U.S. government officials in the administration of U.S. President George W. Bush and affected the Bush Administration's development of military and foreign policies, especially involving national security and the Iraq War.

For these people Israel and the US are simply two heads of the same power.

But being a Neocon means never having to say you are sorry, or that you were wrong, and it means never giving up on the dressing up of illegal and aggressive wars as Necessary and Right and Bright Shining Cities on a Hill that will Make the World Safe for “Democracy” and more importantly for Apartheid Israel.
. . .
They have more assets than is visible on the surface. They have perhaps half of America’s 400 billionaires on their side. They have the enormous military-industrial complex on their side. They have the Yahoo complex of besieged lower middle class White America on their side. They have the Israel lobbies on their side. They have important segments of the Oil and Gas lobbies on their side. They have the whole American tradition of permanent war on their side. They should not be underestimated
Juan Cole

Ron Paul is a Libertarian, which means he puts civil rights of US citizens above all else, including the special interests of Israel.

Some US civil rights: Speech, Religion, Press, freedom from prison without trial, freedom from government surveillance search and seizure without a warrant, freedom from extrajudicial execution, freedom from forced self-incrimination including torture.

The Neo-cons really don't care about those rights, and neither do many Americans today. Some Americans think they're in some special class of people who can easily violate the civil rights of others without endangering their own civil rights. Those people are very dangerous fools.

I wish I could also assemble a list of notable Liberal Democrats afflicted with the same malady of sacrificing civil liberties on the alter of US military projection of power and unconditional support for the Israeli ethnocracy.

Oh yeah, Barak Obama and Hillary Clinton. That's a start. It's a very general American malady built upon hubris and a flawed sense of privilege. I think 65% sounds about right.

One further note: The cultural center planned in the general vicinity of so-called ground zero, was by a Sufi group. The terrorist attacks against civilians in Pakistan have been primarily against Sufi and Shia. Are they not our brothers then in being victims of extremist terror? Shame on America!

On the invisible hand: see this post
in the religion section.

[edit on 22-8-2010 by pthena]

posted on Aug, 21 2010 @ 08:23 PM
Holy #! I actually agree with RP on something!

It's true that the mosque issue is nothing but a grand distraction.

posted on Aug, 21 2010 @ 08:55 PM
I said it before and I will say it again.


Did anyone see the new jobs figures? We are going into a double dip recession without any recovery and all they are worried about is this damn Islamic community center!

No one cares if you are for or against it, this is a local issue. If the people of NYC don't want it there they can protest, but this doesn't have the number one story in the news for weeks.

Our economy is collapsing, the unemployment numbers are growing, our trade deficit is expanding, a bloated military budget of over $700 billion, troops are dying every day and our deficit is ballooning out of control. All this and our number one issue is a #ing 'Mosque'!?

Why don't the Republicans try talking about the key issues at hand and not tax cuts for the rich and deregulating the market and the freaking 14th amendment!? Why don't the Democrats quit bitching and start working for once, you talk about many of the things that need to be talked about but you won't act!

We have one party that has no answers and another party that refuses to do anything useful. At this point I just want to cover my eyes while we fall.


[edit on 8/21/2010 by Misoir]

posted on Aug, 22 2010 @ 05:48 AM

Originally posted by pthena
reply to post by Jazzyguy
I don't know what you mean by Muslims playing along

Yeah, I guess that's a little bit confusing. Let's forget that part.

or attacking Christians first.

There are some clashes between the muslims and christians outside the US. In that skirmishes AFAIK the muslims attack first, and the churches were closed down by the government for safety reason. There's that general overtone that it's not gonna work, muslims and christians are bound to clash.

reply to post by Misoir

The NY mosque is a local issue, but the muslims vs christians are not. This is history, christians have been fighting muslims for a long time, recession or not.

[edit on Sun, 22 Aug 10 by Jazzyguy]

posted on Aug, 22 2010 @ 10:48 AM
reply to post by Jazzyguy

There are some clashes between the muslims and christians outside the US. In that skirmishes AFAIK the muslims attack first, and the churches were closed down by the government for safety reason. There's that general overtone that it's not gonna work, muslims and christians are bound to clash.

What that brings to my mind is the Jos, Nigeria raids, reprisals, and attacks.
North-South, Muslim-Christian, Nomad-Farmer. The news reporter puts it as a land issue. I read a more detailed analysis a few months ago that identified it as a border issue. The Southern state that Jos is located in has schools, medical clinics and other state services that are totally lacking in the Northern state where the Nomad tribe is located. Plus the Northern state is drying up.

Makes it start to seem like the US-Mexico border and immigration issue which isn't about religion but about access to services and birth-rite citizenship.

There are very big issues in the world that kind of put religious disputes in a minor position. I think some one already wrote that a couple of posts back. The solutions are way beyond me. I think that many smart caring people must work together to solve problems and give up the idea of being the winners with big fat bank accounts. IMHO

As for plain Muslim vs Christian clashes I can't find any justification for it. If Christianity is able to free people from fear, then the fearful ones have a flawed understanding. I'm at a loss, really. I failed to start a war one time, but I've never been able to stop one.

[edit on 22-8-2010 by pthena]

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