How come I can't drink a beer or two on the ride home?? *Please read entire OP before posting*

reply to post by maybereal11


Thank you again and in yet another attempt to drive this thread back on topic I would like to ask you:

If they are not impairing or interfering with the drivers ability to control the vehicle and the operater is completely sober, do you think it should be illegal for a passenger in an automobile to consume an alcoholic beverage?

Respectfully ,

~meathead

Originally posted by Alethea
No. A passenger should not have the right to drink in the vehicle even if it is being operated by someone else.

Some people get testy or violent when drinking and could become argumentative. This in turn could cause distraction of the driver.

Some people puke when drinking. This also could cause a distraction to driver.

Should driver get pulled over for any reason, it could be questionable as to whether he is guilty by association. A "friend" would not put a "friend" in this kind of jeopardy.

A drinking passenger could become unruly and exhibit behavior that could cause harm to others or to self.

Wait till you get home to drink.

What the heck is the difference between DDing a person drinking or DDing a person that is already drunk that needs a ride home from the bar?

Nothing!

wow

Stupid law. As a passenger, I have put back quite a few beers while on long
trips or tour. I'm a risk taker. No need to remind me of my crime, so don't
bother telling me I'm an idiot.

Originally posted by Mike Stivic

If they are not impairing or interfering with the drivers ability to control the vehicle and the operater is completely sober, do you think it should be illegal for a passenger in an automobile to consume an alcoholic beverage?

(1) Thier are states in the USA that allow for open alchohol in vehicles...it's a state by state thing. I am not sure, but I think Lousiana and Texas permit both, but maybe other posters can clear it up.

(2) The most obvious challenge for law enforcement is the idea it is far to easy for a Driver to drink and then simply pass the drink to the passenger and claim he was not drinking. Simplest solution...no open alchohol in the vehicle.

When a cop pulls over a car load of bar hoppers at 1am and the car is littered with beer cans, and reeks of booze, it's easy for the driver to simply say, hey I wasn't drinking in the car, they were...my breath only smells because I had a beer at the last bar etc. etc.

(3) I don't agree that a drunk passenger is enough of a danger to the driver that this is a logical basis for prohibiting open alchohol in the vehicle, primarily because if this was true...then Designated Drivers would be illegal.

I lost a childhood friend to a drunk driver...so I am sympathetic to the law enforcement challenge. You don't need to get drunk in the car and is virtually impossible for a cop to sort out who is drinking and who isn't in a car. People lie...especially when drinking.

Lastly from a legal perspective...i think it is called "Constructive Possesion"..if it is your car, it is your problem. I once was arrested because the girl I was driving home had pot in her purse (I am a man BTW). I remember telling the cop..do you think that is my purse???

Just my 2 cents.

Looked it up...As of 2000 the fed tied Highway Funding to Open Alcholol laws and the remaining states that permitted passed laws to prohibit it.

So at present, no states permit it.

reply to post by maybereal11



"1) Thier are states in the USA that allow for open alchohol in vehicles...it's a state by state thing. I am not sure, but I think Lousiana and Texas permit both, but maybe other posters can clear it up."

-
--- Yes you are correct, which as I stated earlier when confronted with this seems to point out the hypocrisy of it.
_________________________________________________________
"(2) The most obvious challenge for law enforcement is the idea it is far to easy for a Driver to drink and then simply pass the drink to the passenger and claim he was not drinking. Simplest solution...no open alchohol in the vehicle. "

"When a cop pulls over a car load of bar hoppers at 1am and the car is littered with beer cans, and reeks of booze, it's easy for the driver to simply say, hey I wasn't drinking in the car, they were...my breath only smells because I had a beer at the last bar etc. etc. "

-
---In the instance I supplied in the OP, and in the question I repeated to you, the Driver is Sober..It is an integral part of the idea behind this thread. I do not condone drinking and driving.
_________________________________________________________
"(3) I don't agree that a drunk passenger is enough of a danger to the driver that this is a logical basis for prohibiting open alchohol in the vehicle, primarily because if this was true...then Designated Drivers would be illegal. "

-
---That is again part of my point and I appreciate the fact you can see both sides of the debate.
_________________________________________________________

"I lost a childhood friend to a drunk driver...so I am sympathetic to the law enforcement challenge. You don't need to get drunk in the car and is virtually impossible for a cop to sort out who is drinking and who isn't in a car. People lie...especially when drinking. "

-
---I to have lost people to the selfishness and idiocy of drunk drivers.As far as not "Needing to" you are correct, but as an adult who is not hindering the sober driver's ability to control the vehicle, I would like to have the option to do so.
As far as the police sorting out who is drinking,I have addressed this before as well, Any police officer worth his badge (Both of my grandfathers were policemen way before breathalyzers came out) will tell you that spotting someone who has been drinking is not as difficult as you would make it seem, and if there is any doubt, nowadays,there is always a breathalyzer.

_________________________________________________________

"Lastly from a legal perspective...I think it is called "Constructive Possesion"..if it is your car, it is your problem. I once was arrested because the girl I was driving home had pot in her purse (I am a man BTW). I remember telling the cop..do you think that is my purse???

Just my 2 cents. "

-
--- Yes that is why I offered to pay any fines if we were pulled over. I would not stick that on my friend.Luckily it never came to that. The idea here, is that there should not be a fine to pay in the first place.
_________________________________________________________

maybereal11,Thank you very much for your thoughts. And I am sorry for your loss, I too have felt that pain and it really never goes away even after almost 2 decades it has only dulled but not ceased. I offer you a cyber hug -----> /hugs.

Respectfully,

~meathead

reply to post by maybereal11


good digging,



Still I am of the opinion it should not be illegal.

~meathead

Originally posted by Mike Stivic

"When a cop pulls over a car load of bar hoppers at 1am and the car is littered with beer cans, and reeks of booze, it's easy for the driver to simply say, hey I wasn't drinking in the car, they were...my breath only smells because I had a beer at the last bar etc. etc. "

-
---In the instance I supplied in the OP, and in the question I repeated to you, the Driver is Sober..It is an integral part of the idea behind this thread. I do not condone drinking and driving.

~meathead

"in this instance"....

Your premise asks too much of law enforcement..

Is the driver sober? OK, he is...Has he been drinking...maybe, maybe not, lets say he has, but is still sober. That is legal, he only had two beers at the last stop...but there are beer cans on the floor of the vehicle and an open beer in the cup holder...if the cop lets this "Sober" driver go will he cross the line into intoxicated somewhere on the freeway ten minutes from now?..

What you are asking is for every cop to take the drivers word for it...that open beer is my buddys, I am not going to drink it.

Scouts honor

It's just too much risk for a cop that is trying to save lives.

Again, just my 2 cents.

Also, if you see my last post, there are no longer any states (that I am aware of) that permit open alchohol in the vehicle.

"Your premise asks too much of law enforcement..

Is the driver sober? OK, he is...Has he been drinking...maybe, maybe not, lets say he has, but is still sober. That is legal, he only had two beers at the last stop...but there are beer cans on the floor of the vehicle and an open beer in the cup holder...if the cop lets this "Sober" driver go will he cross the line into intoxicated somewhere on the freeway ten minutes from now?..

What you are asking is for every cop to take the drivers word for it...that open beer is my buddys, I am not going to drink it.

Scouts honor
It's just too much risk for a cop that is trying to save lives"


-
---Again I would not drive with anyone who has consumed ANY alcohol or drive myself even after one beer, no matter your tolerance level you will still have the same blood alcohol content in your blood as someone who only drinks occasionally. The legal limit here is .08 BAL (Blood Alcohol Level). One beer can easily put people of smaller stature over that.

As for your point about law enforcement: If a policemen pulls over a vehicle and the Driver is found to be SOBER,after a field test or a breathalyzer, It is a Dark precedent to set to arrest them for something they MIGHT do in the future.
_________________________________________________________
"Again, just my 2 cents.

Also, if you see my last post, there are no longer any states (that I am aware of) that permit open alchohol in the vehicle."

-
---Yes I acknowledged that, good investigating there
I am running out of ways to rephrase retorts to previously explored debate topics in this thread

Respectfully,

~meathead

Also I would like to point out that this was not my premise it was yours:
____________________________________________________
"When a cop pulls over a car load of bar hoppers at 1am and the car is littered with beer cans, and reeks of booze, it's easy for the driver to simply say, hey I wasn't drinking in the car, they were...my breath only smells because I had a beer at the last bar etc. etc. "
______________________________________________________

Just for clarification

~meathead

Originally posted by Mike Stivic
---Again I would not drive with anyone who has consumed ANY alcohol or drive myself even after one beer, no matter your tolerance level you will still have the same blood alcohol content in your blood as someone who only drinks occasionally. The legal limit here is .08 BAL (Blood Alcohol Level). One beer can easily put people of smaller stature over that.

You are discussing you...what you would do. Not a standard for enforcing a law.

Are you advocating allowing open containers in the car, but to arrest anyone that has had ANY alchohol at all before driving? Otherwise you are just explaining that YOU don't ride with someone that has had any amount of alchohol.

The law avoids slippery slopes. It has to by it's neccessity to be uniformly enforced.





[edit on 27-8-2010 by maybereal11]

reply to post by maybereal11


I dont think i implied anyone SHOULD be arrested for anything.

I take responsibility for Choosing not to ride with anyone who has been drinking.

I am simply saying I would also like to as an adult have the Responsibility of choosing whether i would like to enjoy a beer or two while riding as a passenger on the way home from work given back to me.


Respectfully,

~meathead

Originally posted by Mike Stivic
reply to post by maybereal11

 

I I am simply saying I would also like to as an adult have the Responsibility of choosing whether i would like to enjoy a beer or two while riding as a passenger on the way home from work given back to me.
~meathead

Yep. And you are doing just that. Take responsibility for it..if or when you get fined or arrested for it. The cops have a responsibility too and those responsibilities don't involve evaulating and assesing the drinking policy or moral foundation of everyone they pull over.

Honestly they don't have that luxury, nor do I think we should demand that of them.

reply to post by maybereal11


" The cops have a responsibility too and those responsibilities don't involve evaulating and assesing the drinking policy or moral foundation of everyone they pull over. "

_____________________________________________

Correct!

In My Opinion the police should only be concerned with evaluating and assessing whether or not the operater of the vehicle is Intoxicated or Impaired..they can keep there moral judgements to themselves. this is another dark road to go down.

As I said earlier I do not expect to argue anyone into agreeing with me, well perhaps we could agree to disagree.


Respectfully,

~meathead

Originally posted by maybereal11
(2) The most obvious challenge for law enforcement is the idea it is far to easy for a Driver to drink and then simply pass the drink to the passenger and claim he was not drinking. Simplest solution...no open alchohol in the vehicle.

When a cop pulls over a car load of bar hoppers at 1am and the car is littered with beer cans, and reeks of booze, it's easy for the driver to simply say, hey I wasn't drinking in the car, they were...my breath only smells because I had a beer at the last bar etc. etc.

Sobriety tests, including a breathalyzer test, will determine if the driver had too much to drink. If there's any question regarding the amount consumed the tests will be given. In my state the legal limit is .08, which for sake of argument is one drink per hour for an average person. One thing I never understood is what's the difference whether the driver just had a drink prior to driving and is still under the legal limit or if the driver consumes a drink within an hour while driving and still stays under the legal limit? I understand that it's illegal to do so but I'm asking what the difference is. The driver still has to be responsible either way. It's not what Meathead's saying specifically although it ties in and is something I've been curious about.

I'm with you Mike (only read the first page of this thread).

When I was visiting an old friend in Australia, we bought some beer that I'd never heard of at a supermarket, he was driving, and to my great surprise, he handed me a bottle and told me to try it.

What followed was a discussion on open container laws, which apparently they don't have in Australia (or at least in Victoria). After I explained it to him, he said it kind of makes sense, because a common thing to do in Australia if you're pulled over while drinking and driving is to hand the drink to the passenger next to you.

Nevertheless, he also said that the "road toll" (Aussie term for the yearly traffic fatalities per State) in Victoria was something like 300, and this was considered a huge problem there. I gave him an out-of-the-rear-end estimate of what it is here in Florida and he was shocked (a few thousand, which as it turns out isn't too far off the mark).

So I'm not sure how big a problem drunk driving is over there. They also drive better over there (I noticed instead of the middle finger which I see frequently in the college town where I still unfortunately live, I saw drivers mutually giving each other thumbs-ups for courtesies like pulling over on a two-laner when there are people behind you - tell you what I want to move there).

I'm not sure what this ramble of mine is about honestly. I would love to be allowed to drink in the passenger seat. All the "what-if" scenarios on the first page of this thread go against the spirit of responsibility. "What if", sure, but I'm not. Judge the guilty; don't nanny the innocent.

Political nannyism is one of my biggest pet peeves these days. We are not nearly as free as we pretend to be. In that vein, I think you'd enjoy this article: www.fredoneverything.net...

Good luck on kicking the habit (assuming you're still trying). I'm right there with ya



[edit on 27-8-2010 by NewlyAwakened]

reply to post by spikey


well i think i can answer the limo thing

I used to own a 75 caddy limo(partioned the important part)
i drove it to pick up my firends and take them too the bars in the town i grew up in and because it had a partition(the area that seperates the driver from those in the back the little roll down window thingy)and they could get legaly roaring drunk in the back as long as there are no open containers in the front drivers area and the partition remains locked and closed your in the clear but thats in california i also belive its legal to drink in an rv while your driving it as long as your not in the captians chairs but on that i may be wrong

reply to post by NewlyAwakened


" I'm not sure what this ramble of mine is about honestly. I would love to be allowed to drink in the passenger seat. All the "what-if" scenarios on the first page of this thread go against the spirit of responsibility. "What if", sure, but I'm not. Judge the guilty; don't nanny the innocent. "
_______________________________________________________
I think you summed up pretty well what this thread was meant to be about right there.

respectfully.

~meathead

[edit on 27-8-2010 by Mike Stivic]

Originally posted by vkey08
I have always found the law in that respect a little odd, if the driver is not Under the Influence it should not matter if the passenger is drinking or not, as long as it poses no threat to other motorists and the driver.

That said, I don't drink much (once a year maybe) so I'm not sure of why you'd want to other than to quench thirst which many other non alcoholic beverages could do.

Because a drunk passenger could spill a drink or be drunk and alter the drivers wheel and cause an accident.


what they don't tell you is that , that can also happen when their is no alcohol in the car.

as a recovering addict,,, i know your pain,,,

in fact i would bet it's safer for you to drive on a couple beers than heaving in withdraw

as i waited for my heroin dealer,,,, i saw a tart cart bus pull up,,,, then my dealer, and the lady bus driver run to his car and score

i was shocked,,,,,, at first,,,,

i know when i ran out,,, i became violently ill,,, and certainly was a road hazard as i shook, threw up,,, and
well,, i just can't explain the pain that is withdraw

then it hit me,,,,, that bus driver was actually safer riding around on drugs,,, than not on them,,, if she were to begin withdrawing

i know that from experience,,,, and i know it sounds crazy but ask someone who has sderiously withdrawed and i bet they'd agree

thank god 5 years sober that monkey is off my back


ps...... it cracks me up,,, people think heroin is so bad,,, but oxy and percocet use is ok because a doctor prescribed it,,,,,,,,, it's all heroin or opiates and how many people with back injuries or such are driving down the road all pilled up right now,,,, but it's legal, it's ok