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How come I can't drink a beer or two on the ride home?? *Please read entire OP before posting*

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posted on Aug, 21 2010 @ 10:49 AM
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If you can't figure out why it's illegal to have an open container in a vehicle while it's being driven by someone else, both you and they don't deserve to have a driving license.

If you can't take a drive without having a drink, STAY HOME.

The reason behind this law is that the driver could easily be drinking from a beer, then when the cop pulls them over simply hand off to a passenger, saying that they weren't drinking at all.

Alcoholic fumes can also affect judgement (although probably not to the point were someone would be impaired), but can still affect decision making and reaction times.

Anyone who drinks and drives or allows their passengers to drink while they're driving should have their licensed revoked for life.

Driving is a PRIVILEDGE, NOT A RIGHT.

You can't drink while driving, pretty soon you won't be able to text while driving nationally (not just in individual states). Anyone that does is putting their own and others' lives at risk and doesn't deserve to be on the road.

If you can't figure it out, go back to driver's ed school while SOBER.




posted on Aug, 21 2010 @ 10:55 AM
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reply to post by Hefficide
 


Thank you for your post,

I see the point you are making about the hassle it might become for the police.

so in the spirit of conversation:

we should consider that IF it was LEGAL for the passenger to drink, and the driver IS SOBER and driving correctly, makes no swerving motions, remembers to use blinkers, wears seatbelt,doesnt speed or tailgate, in other words made no infractions,what would be the probable cause to make the stop?

Respectfully,

~meathead



posted on Aug, 21 2010 @ 11:10 AM
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reply to post by Mike Stivic
 


As you said, in the spirit of conversation:

If open containers were allowed there would still be the standard things we deal with now. I can't speak for the rest of the country, or, for that matter even for the rest of the metropolitan area that I live in. But in my county roadblocks / DUI "checkpoints" are very common. Those would bottleneck.

You mentioned your friend drinking Gatorade as you drink your beer. There is no way for law enforcement to know if the Gatorade is truly Gatorade, or if it's spiked.

Just as is done now, anything can be used as an excuse. And since law enforcement, whether people admit it or not, generates revenue and is "for profit" you can bet it would happen as often as possible. Again, just as it's done now.

I agree with the spirit of what you are saying. But this is much easier to think of as illegal, for me, than say the laws against using a phone while you're driving. Yet these laws do exist. At least with the open container laws I can understand the why of it.



posted on Aug, 21 2010 @ 11:13 AM
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reply to post by babybunnies
 


"If you can't figure out why it's illegal to have an open container in a vehicle while it's being driven by someone else, both you and they don't deserve to have a driving license. "

---I was only asking a question.
_______
"If you can't take a drive without having a drink, STAY HOME. "

---Good advice, thank you.
________
"The reason behind this law is that the driver could easily be drinking from a beer, then when the cop pulls them over simply hand off to a passenger, saying that they weren't drinking at all. "

---Any cop worthy of a badge will tell you that it is very easy to tell if someone has been drinking or not, and if they have any doubts, breathalyzer..
__________
"Alcoholic fumes can also affect judgement (although probably not to the point were someone would be impaired), but can still affect decision making and reaction times."

--- I have never heard of a contact high from a bottle of beer, I hate to do it but I am going to ask you for a link of that one.
__________
"Anyone who drinks and drives or allows their passengers to drink while they're driving should have their licensed revoked for life."

-That is what makes ATS great, we all get to voice our opinions.
__________
"Driving is a PRIVILEDGE, NOT A RIGHT. "

---Agreed, I cannot argue that.
____________
"You can't drink while driving, pretty soon you won't be able to text while driving nationally (not just in individual states). Anyone that does is putting their own and others' lives at risk and doesn't deserve to be on the road. "

---I am not talking about drinking and driving so I do not understand your analogy.
____________
"If you can't figure it out, go back to driver's ed school while SOBER. "

---Hopefully this thread will help me "figure it out"

Thanks alot for your input, I am sure you did not mean to come across as hostile as you did, You really dont even know me..
I understand this thread is a touchy subject, when people have had dealings with a nasty alcoholic or lost people to DWI's as I have, it can bring out some very strong emotions. I offer you a cyber hug my friend /Hugs.


Respectfully,

~meathead



posted on Aug, 21 2010 @ 12:03 PM
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post removed because the user has no concept of manners

Click here for more information.



posted on Aug, 21 2010 @ 12:10 PM
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reply to post by Hefficide
 


"As you said, in the spirit of conversation:

If open containers were allowed there would still be the standard things we deal with now. I can't speak for the rest of the country, or, for that matter even for the rest of the metropolitan area that I live in. But in my county roadblocks / DUI "checkpoints" are very common. Those would bottleneck. "

---I think that those sort of things would run alot smoother than you suggest, On my frequent trips back and forth to Vermont there is a Spot check set up by border patrol Not going to give exact location, (i dont want to be considered a "security breach" lol, But It is ON the highway , they close down both lanes, and do a "Look about" your interior ,ask for L and R and sometimes Passenger ID's, They would occasionally wave one car to the side for a "closer look" but for the most part the stops took about 20 seconds or so and there was never a huge bottleneck, when done right a check like that can be run rather efficiently.
_________________________________
"You mentioned your friend drinking Gatorade as you drink your beer. There is no way for law enforcement to know if the Gatorade is truly Gatorade, or if it's spiked.

Just as is done now, anything can be used as an excuse. "

--- This line of arguement takes us down a very differant road, I agree a "Bad" cop can literally pull any excuse out of his arse to pull someone over. But if the passenger was drinking and it was legal what would be his motivation if he was unable to levy a fine?
_____________________________
"And since law enforcement, whether people admit it or not, generates revenue and is "for profit" you can bet it would happen as often as possible. Again, just as it's done now. "

---So am I to understand that the crux of your reasoning why it is illegal is that it generates money for the state? thats another Dark precident.
_________________________
"I agree with the spirit of what you are saying. But this is much easier to think of as illegal, for me, than say the laws against using a phone while you're driving. Yet these laws do exist. At least with the open container laws I can understand the why of it."

---It is not illegal for a passenger to text or use a cell phone, I am not going to get into what the driver is doing because the entire Idea of the thread pretty much revolves around the point that The driver IS NOT intoxicated, distracted, or driving erratically.

Thanks for you input, your well thought out posts are always welcome in my threads


Respectfully,

~meathead



posted on Aug, 21 2010 @ 12:11 PM
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reply to post by 2weird2live2rare2die
 


I have nothing to say to that, except, I apologize if I came across as rude it was not my intent.

Respectfully,

~meathead



posted on Aug, 21 2010 @ 12:15 PM
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reply to post by Mike Stivic
 


And thank you for this debate. I have enjoyed it, as well as your class, civility, and courtesy! You have been a gracious host.

I look forward to discussions, such as this, in the future!



posted on Aug, 21 2010 @ 12:20 PM
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reply to post by Alethea
 


What about the DD picking up drunk friends from a bar wouldnt they have the same suseptibility to the same kind of behavior? It is already ok to have drunk people in a vehicle as long as they are not driving/ operating it.

IMO I think the open container law is just another BS law created to skew the statistics just so MADD and the rest of those special interest can say how bad alcohol is. Its just another alcohol related incident.



posted on Aug, 21 2010 @ 12:33 PM
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i guess i'm sorry too. anyway, you're right i don't see the problem with someone drinking in a car as long as they aren't driving. personally i hate the police with a firey passion but if passengers were allowed to drink it would certainly complicate the officers ability to detect drunk drivers by smell alone like they usually do (i assume). i want to add that drinking alcohol is completely retarded, ever see someone die from liver disease? ever see someone in severe almost fatal withdrawal who is puking up their stomach lining and having severe hallucinations? i could think of something much better, safe, and pleasant to do after work to relax and unwind, but we can't talk about that here.



posted on Aug, 21 2010 @ 01:12 PM
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reply to post by 2weird2live2rare2die
 


i guess i'm sorry too. anyway, you're right i don't see the problem with someone drinking in a car as long as they aren't driving. personally i hate the police with a firey passion but if passengers were allowed to drink it would certainly complicate the officers ability to detect drunk drivers by smell alone like they usually do (i assume). i want to add that drinking alcohol is completely retarded, ever see someone die from liver disease? ever see someone in severe almost fatal withdrawal who is puking up their stomach lining and having severe hallucinations? i could think of something much better, safe, and pleasant to do after work to relax and unwind, but we can't talk about that here.
________________________________________

Your input is appreciated, I understand and know full well the dangers of alcoholism. I respect your strong feelings on the subject, and am happy to hear your point of view. And I agree there are indeed less self-destructive means to achieve a "relaxed state" available, but alas those are illegal and off topic.

oh, and, Apology accepted my friend,

Respectfully,

~meathead



posted on Aug, 21 2010 @ 01:37 PM
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reply to post by babybunnies
 


Before I respond to you in specific I'd like to mention that each night in Keene, New Hampshire there is a group of Free State Project members who protest the open container laws by openly drinking in the city center park where doing so is illegal. They call it the "night cap" event and it goes very well 99% of the time with the only trouble being the occasional police man who comes in a causes trouble.

If the reasoning behind the law is to adjust people's lifestyles in a way to make it easier for police work, as you suggest, so they don't have to rule out alternative explanations like passenger drinking, then its a stupid law with no point.

First of all, just because a given act is illegal doesn't mean it didn't happen. The driver still may simply report that he does not drink and a passenger must have been drinking. The excuse still works just as well as it did prior to the law, thereby defeating the entire point of helping police rule out explanations. Also, contrary to what complete jerks may tell me(hopefully not you), I am not my passengers keeper and cannot accept responsibility for their actions unless I am their legal guardian.

Secondly, all the driver needs to do is put the cap back on and throw their liquor in a bag if pulled over. You really think people can't figure that out? If they are pulled over and are not drunk, they'll think of it right away I'd bet.

Lastly, a driver should never say "it was the passenger who was drinking" even if that actually was the case. Rather, they should say, "My lawyer has advised me not to speak to law enforcement about any topic at all without his presence. Allow me to call him over and he'll be happy to speak to you on my behalf."

Your comment that people who don't know the reasoning behind nonsensical laws deserve to have their license revoked is Nazi-ish and draconian. If you like that idea, perhaps you should quiz random trivia questions to people on the street, and if they fail the quiz you can take away their license at gun point. Oh, you don't know the capital of Paraguay? You don't deserve a drivers license, hand it over. Tragically there are a lot of people in government who think just like you.

While you may be right about the reasoning, I believe you are just guessing as to the point of the laws, and I think your guess is wrong. The point of most laws in the modern age in the USA is profit, seeing how our laws are apparently authored mostly by for-profit corporations. Therefore, its a much better guess that the law was put in place to collect additional revenue for the government, and/or justify additional employees to further expand the power of the person responsible for the new positions so they can quote a bigger number of employees as being "under them" while getting a bigger budget for their department. Perhaps you deserve to have your driver's license taken away for not knowing this. Nevermind, I'd be a Nazi brute to do that, so no, keep your license.

Your idea that Alcoholic fumes can effect judgment sounds like you are just making things up now as you go along. I challenge you to come up with any evidence at all showing you are right.

Driving is actually a right in the USA because we often need a car in this country to get from point A to point B. The only valid reason to stop someone from driving is if they are recklessly endangering others on a regular basis or have actually harmed others by driving due to recklessness. Remember that the US constitution does not grant any rights nor claim to list all of them, but rather lists off important rights that people naturally have with or without a paper declaration, that the government is obligated to protect.

I'd strongly advise Mike that, with the permission of the driver, to go ahead and drink his booze if the driver does not mind the risk. Risk-return decisions are people's own decision, so perhaps you should stop trying to force your nonsensical laws down other people's throat.

It would quite seriously be much more accurate to say you deserve to have your right to speak revoked for life (on account of advocating people being harmed by taking away their driver's license), than it would be to say that people who cannot figure out the reasoning behind draconian laws deserve their drivers license revoked for life.

Mike, you are welcome to drink in my car. Just bring along bottle caps and a bag... we'll be fine. It takes all of three seconds to pop caps on a bottle and throw them in a grocery bag.



posted on Aug, 21 2010 @ 01:38 PM
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The majority of the replies to this thread have been ridiculous and border line insulting.

At the end of the day, a passenger in a vehicle consuming alcohol has no bearing on how the driver reacts to the road. For all those of you that say someone being drunk may affect the drivers judgement? Well fair enough, but what if I want to whistle dixy on the way home, are you going to argue that affected the drivers driving and thus was the reason he crashed?!?!

For the rest of you who have asked "what if the driver becomes incapacitated?" implying that the passenger (drunk) would need to drive the vehicle? Well, legally he wouldn't be allowed to do that anyway, drunk or not because he/she would have to be insured and have valid tax for that vehicle.

If a passenger enters a vehicle doesn't put his seat belt on then the driver is at fault, why do the majority of you people think it's any difference when a passenger has consumed alcohol?

Test the driver, test the passenger, as long as the driver hasn't drank anything then no law has been broken.

Finally, to all the people who are saying "drink when you get home. wait" Well what if he doesn't want too?!?! He isn't driving the car, he's not getting wankered, simply having one or two beers on a drive home.

I've drank in plenty of cars and never had a problem but if the police acted the way some of you people are expecting then I'd be placing a serious, professional complaint.

[edit on 21/8/10 by Death_Kron]



posted on Aug, 21 2010 @ 01:39 PM
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reply to post by Mike Stivic
 


What about limo's? Many times passengers (in the back) are drinking. From what I understand it is legal because of the divider window, but the second a passenger steps out with drink in hand, the driver can be charged with an open container. The laws vary state to state. I'm sure there's some other kind of loop hole (there usually is).



posted on Aug, 21 2010 @ 01:55 PM
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The only problem I see with that is the smell but why not just have the police officer breathalyze the driver when he/she smells alcohol in the vehicle?

It would be awful hard to reverse the law.



posted on Aug, 21 2010 @ 02:00 PM
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reply to post by Mike Stivic
 


you're alright man i guess i just have strong personal feelings on the subject. but the bottom line is we all engage in some sort of self destructive behaviors so no one should really preach about it especially me haha. if it was me i would just order a cup of ice from a fast food place and get a lid and straw, then just pour the ice out (or maybe not if it's liquor), fill it up with alcohol and discreetly get f'd up. maybe pack a few breath mints in case your friend gets stopped by the popos.



posted on Aug, 21 2010 @ 02:08 PM
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I know in Texas passengers could drink in the car up until 5 or so years ago. Hell, in Texas you can walk down the street drinking a beer with a loaded (not chambered) shotgun on your shoulder and it is perfectly legal - sure, they're gonna ask questions, but it is legal. We still hang cattle rustlers here!!!

I'm with the OP on this one, I drink often (and am out of work due to back/neck problems) and usually throughout the day, rarely exceeding a 6-pack in an 18hr period - I have a high tolerance and rarely get "drunk". I'm not an alcoholic, alcoholics go to meetings. My dad and I used to pick up a 6er on the way home from a long days work, he would drink one and I would usually kill two, saving the rest for the house.

I have a question for everyone - will you blow drunk if you have just finished drinking one 16oz beer? I know one person who blew drunk after using mouthwash, he hadn't touched a drop for 5yrs......

ETA: I love how people respond without reading the OP, and if they did read it they completely misconstrued what you were saying - for instance, the posters who think you were driving.....

[edit on 8/21/10 by I.C. Weiner]



posted on Aug, 21 2010 @ 02:44 PM
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reply to post by truthquest
 


I owe you a beer, root beer or Guiness Stout its your choice!

I wish my OP would have been so well worded.


Respectfully,

~meathead



posted on Aug, 21 2010 @ 02:48 PM
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You can drink as much as you want in a limo or other rented vehicle, and you can drink on the commuter trains on the way home.



posted on Aug, 21 2010 @ 03:14 PM
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Originally posted by kyred

I find it interesting that if I chose to do so, I could hire a limo to drive me around town and they sometimes come supplied with alcoholic beverages that the custumers/riders can consume.



A Limo has a hired professional driver and has the front seat separated from the rear. Kind of like when you fly the pilot is separated from the passengers and the passengers can drink.

Being a retired Firefighter I can tell you first hand that distraction at the wrong time creates accidents. Its all good if no incidents happen, but you get two or more outside incidents (someone cuts you off, at the same time someone else is entering the road from a parking lot) and you are at the some time distracted form your inebriated passenger and you then have an accident. Same reason why you should not use you phone while you drive.

People do not take driving seriously because for the most part its damn easy. Its when TSHTF is when its not so easy. Most people unless they race vehicles will never have that skill tested. Test that skill when there are no distractions and you will still more than likely (your average dumbass) will have an accident. add a distraction at the right time and its assured to happen.

Take driving very seriously and don't drink in someones vehicle.

[edit on 21-8-2010 by LoneGunMan]





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