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Baha'i fulfills prophecy of the return of christ

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posted on Aug, 22 2010 @ 02:47 AM
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reply to post by JR MacBeth
 


I don't want to subvert this thread with the Mormon connection. With that said, I'm going to add you, Jr Mac, to my friends list. Thanks for your insights. I am going to research this for sure.




posted on Aug, 24 2010 @ 11:46 PM
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As a long-time Baha'i I'd like to clarify a few things. The Baha'i Faith has no connection to Joseph Smith or the Mormon Church. I know. I became a Baha'i in Salt Lake City. The Baha'i Faith originated in the Middle East in 1844, the year that the telegraph sent the first message at the speed of light, "What hath God wrought?". In fact the Baha'i Faith began on the same day in May, 1844. Just a coincidence I'm sure. At that time there was little contact between Persia and the West. The history and drama of those early years of Baha'i is recorded and available in English.

Baha'i may not be agreeable to everybody, but it should be interesting to most people. When I first encountered Baha'i while living in Utah I was an agnostic and was interested in ascertaining the truth of religion, whatever it was. No one pressured me in any way to believe anything. I found that attractive and refreshing. This is the Baha'i attitude: investigate for yourself, don't just follow your ancestoral belief and respect the right of others to do the same.

There is no clergy in Baha'i and Baha'is believe that faith should be based on knowledge and understanding. This is a process of growing spiritually and mentally until the day you die. On that day only your material body dies and the "real" you moves to the spiritual worlds of God for whatever comes next. While living on this earth we should work together as one human race to improve our living conditions and quality of life. We have progressed during the past thousands of years from working in family groups, to tribal groups, to city state groups and now we are nation states. We progressively learned how to live in larger and larger units and that brought great benefits. Now Baha'is believe that we need to make that last planetary step and learn to live peacefully with even greater prosperity as one human family. This is the teaching of Baha'u'llah Who had no formal education and who claimed that His teachings were not from Himself but were from God. He asked everyone to investigate to determine the truth of this claim. He wrote 100 books, many of which are now translated into English and are available on-line. I have been actively involved with the Baha'i Faith for almost 50 years, met Baha'is all over the world and visited the World Center of the Faith which is located in Israel because that's where Baha'u'llah was imprisoned in an attempt to destroy Him and His Faith. Baha'u'llah teaches that what was good enough in the past is not necessarily good enough for today's world. In His writings he outlined how we should live together as a human race and the kind of morality and ethics we should strive for. Baha'i communities are established everywhere in the world except maybe North Korea, and Baha'is consist of people from all races, nationalities and professions. And as the title of this thread states, Baha'u'llah does claim to be the Return of Christ. That's a wild claim, but so was the claim of Jesus, Moses, Buddha and Muhammed. They were all opposed in Their Day and called vile names. That's the pattern.

Harlan



posted on Aug, 25 2010 @ 09:37 AM
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reply to post by harlan
 




The Baha'i Faith has no connection to Joseph Smith or the Mormon Church. I know. I became a Baha'i in Salt Lake City. The Baha'i Faith originated in the Middle East in 1844, the year that the telegraph sent the first message at the speed of light, "What hath God wrought?". In fact the Baha'i Faith began on the same day in May, 1844. Just a coincidence I'm sure. At that time there was little contact between Persia and the West.


HI Harlan, not sure to believe what you're saying. Surely you know that Joseph Smith is officially considered a "Seer" by Baha'i (a step down from full-blown "prophet"). When you say "no connection", I'm guessing you're making the statement in an almost legalistic sense, perhaps arguing that there is little real "evidence" of a connection left, other than dates that match-up, and things that were said by the leaders of these religions.

I don't have any desire to help promote the Baha'i Faith, but for those interested, they can go to bci.org, and find a whole page, from the Baha'i perspective, on exactly how "connected" Mormonism and Baha'i are.

If the person reading this doesn't know it yet, Baha'i is the most wildly syncretistic "religion" of all time, which basically means that they try hard to "connect" to ALL major religions, essentially saying they THEY are the answer to Buddhists, and Christians, Jews and Muslims. A tall order ya think?

Baha'i looks very much like an intentional creation of the elite. Of course, this might be hard to absolutely "prove", like so many things the elite are up to, they cover their tracks. But they also make mistakes, and sometimes inconvenient details are left, that at least "point" us in the right direction.

Let's look briefly at the genesis of Baha'i, and the constant turmoil that surrounds this cult, through their violent history.

In 1844, a guy named Mirza Ali Muhammed announced that he was the "Gate" (Bab) of God. Yes, same year Joseph Smith died, but let's keep going.

Six years later, the Bab is dead. Before he died, he tapped a Persian NOBLE (imagine that?) named Mirza Yahya. Of course, today's "official" rewritten history sweeps that under the rug, since Yahya's half-brother Mirza Ali Hussein ended up winning the duel for power.

The "winner" (after mutual attempts to assassinate each other) renames himself Baha'u'llah. He is really the guy who gave Baha'i it's legs, writing 100 books, etc. Not surprising a "noble" background is played down, but come on, he was an able writer, an excellent leader. Let's face it, he was one of "them", and was well-equipped for his job.

Predictably, this incredible "Manifestation of God" dies, and still no peaceful transition! It was 1892. He had designated his son, Abdul Baha, to succeed him, but his brother (yet another "Mizra") challenged him, and of course, more violence, but this time, lots of money was involved too, the religion had grown.

So, Abdul came out on top, but sure enough, when he died in 1921, more trouble! This is when another big leader arose, the famous Shoghi Effendi, but if the reader gets a chance to look into it, go ahead and marvel at the man's absolute "power". Certainly more power than the average dictator, and sort of reminiscent of the power the popes of old had centuries ago, at least within their group. But more than that, as Baha'i began sprouting it's "globalist agenda" wings.

Today, Baha'i's are actually quite proud of their efforts to bring a One World Government, and One World Religion (theirs), and have bragging rights when it comes to how the United Nations puts the most promotion behind their religion.

Hmmm. Interesting how Baha'i goals seem to be largely the same as those of our masters. Could it be that Baha'i was intentionally created to help bring about an eventual "merger" of all religions, under one preposterous big tent, that no one, not even "god" would have the chutzpah to imagine? Oh, but our masters, they COULD imagine such a monstrosity!

The elite are still working this plan, and I wouldn't want to underestimate Baha'i just because they're so "out there", or because of their very "human" history, etc. Forget all that. The real problem is that the UN is pushing them TODAY. Yes, they are based in Israel, a supposedly sound historical reason is conveniently provided, but it sure looks as if they are in a good position to one day play a more critical role than they have so far. Excellent strategic placement.

How many know that Baha'i's are taught that a man could come among us, and that that man could properly be called "God"? Their theology talks about a pure "reflection", etc., but the upshot is that they're already well-primed for an "anti-christ" figure to be welcomed, and no doubt they will call him "God". Danger, Will Robinson!

SO, back to Harlan's claims, and his attempt to shove the "Mormon connection" under the rug. Sure sounds like you would prefer some distance on this one, at least for this thread. But it also sounds like exactly what Baha'i has always done. Whether it's rewriting history, or distorting the truth, or mostly just trying to have your cake and eat it too, it's actually a disgusting attitude, in my book. I mean no offense personally here, of course, but Harlan, your "faith" doesn't have a good track record when it comes to a whole lot of things.

Of course, this statement could apply to most religions, which is fine, but when it comes to Baha'i, I do see something building, growing, it's on the horizon, and it seems very dangerous for humankind. Worse, it's in "stealth" mode, the danger is literally sneaking up on us.

I'm not a religionist myself, but in this case, I am almost tempted to say, "god help us" if this detestable elite plan should one day succeed.

Certainly, we should worry about our grandchildren having this "religion" forced upon them, because when this one plays all the way out, this diabolical prison, carefully forged for their minds, will be complete. If this happens this "slave religion" could persist for a millennia, as humankind groans under it's oppressive weight.

Our masters will laugh at their pathetic slaves, who have all the fight bred out of them, and who no longer can think for themselves anymore. Plantation, Forever...

YES, Baha'i is THAT dangerous.

JR



posted on Aug, 26 2010 @ 03:04 AM
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I don't buy into the popular illusion that there is a group of "elite" who are behind the scenes controlling the events of the world. It perhaps makes the world seem more exciting, but I don't think that the leaders of the world are that erudite to be able to do this. But I also know that people who hold to this view of reality are not able to see things otherwise.

One of the similarities of the Baha'i Faith and the Mormon Church is that both are highly organized with institutions with the authority to state what are and are not the facts concerning their faith. Neither the Mormon Church nor the Baha'i FAith recognizes the divine origin of the other. Individual Baha'is or Mormons may have web sites in which they speculate otherwise, but that's just their individual opinions and not the official stand of the religion. The Baha'i Faith and the Mormon Church both have official web sites to explain their beliefs. That's where to go for the facts. The Baha'i site is www.bahai.org. There are no secret Baha'i writings or teachings. Everything is above board and open to the public to read and question.

The alternative to the unity of mankind is a continuation of the 20th century, only in the 21st century wars are likely to include atomic bombs which can be made by more and more countries. The alternative to the unity of mankind is racism and nationalism.

The Baha'i FAith has been opposed and persecuted from the beginning in Iran. Seven Baha'i leaders in Iran have just been sentenced to 20 years in prison on trumped up charges, a part of a campaign to destroy the Faith. Baha'is cannot attend universities and are not given basic civil rights. The laws of Iran do not protect the Baha'is. It's not against the law to murder a Baha'i.

The Baha'i International Community is a Non-governmental member of the United Nations and is involved in social and economic issues. The U.N. is not promoting the Baha'i Faith, but they are becoming familiar with the insights of the Baha'i teachings into how to promote peace and understanding, which is the mission of the UN.

All religions have been faced with a crisis of leadership after the passing of their Founders. Various leaders have contended for leadership which inevitably lead to schisms in the Faith. Baha'u'llah left a written Covenant ito deal with the issue of succession. It's something unique in the history of religion.

As to the the issue of Baha'i being syncretic, that's not true. Just because Baha'u'llah recognised the Divine origins of the great world religions such as Christianity, Islam, Buddhism or Hinduism doesn't mean that He cherry picked teachings from all these religions. He stated that the Baha'i teachings, laws and principles came from God as a Revelation for our own era. All religions teach certain basic things such as loving others, being humble, being compassionate, etc. It doesn't mean that one Prophet borrowed from another. One would expect that many teaching would be the same or similar if these teachings came from the same Divine Source. The difference is that each Prophet tailors the teachings to the needs of the age in which He appears. Teachers in schools do the same thing. They teach kids according to their developmental levels, and each teacher builds on the skills and knowledge which previous teachers taught. Prophets are also like Divine Physicians who diagnose the spiritual condition of mankind and then prescribe the Divine Remedy.

If you travel to Israel, you can visit the prison where Baha'u'llah was kept and the houses he lived in afterward. You can see His original writings. He was always in danger of being executed during His 40 years of exile and imprisonment. The idea that the "elite" leaders of the world could somehow bring about the Baha'i Faith in the Turkish Empire is insane.

Harlan



posted on Aug, 26 2010 @ 04:19 AM
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I read up a bit on Bahai a few years back and liked the sound of it. Not enough to join or pursue any further though.

I first heard about Bahai when David Kelly died. He was a dedicated follower. Now reading this post I am wondering if his beliefs may have caused any adverse reactions to him considering that Bahai is not a welcomed religion in Iran? Just a thought.

news.bbc.co.uk...

Dr Kelly seems to have been well suited to Bahai, which emphasises the unity of science and religion, and strongly supports the work of the United Nations. Dr Kelly's widow Janice has told the inquiry that Bahai "really was a spiritual revelation for him".



posted on Aug, 26 2010 @ 01:49 PM
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here is another prophecy fulfilled by the bahais

Daneil 7:8
I considered the horns, and, behold, there came up among them another little horn, before whom there were three of the first horns plucked up by the roots: and, behold, in this horn were eyes like the eyes of man, and a mouth speaking great things

for those who don't understand what a 'horn' is, it is the symbolic metaphor for a king and kingdoms.

www.green-agenda.com...

In a statement to the World Summit on Sustainable Development in August 2002, the Baha’i Community wrote,

The UN must work untiringly to exorcise religious bigotry and superstition from within their faith traditions and renounce claims to religious exclusivity and finality.” In other words Christianity, Judaism and Islam are forms of religious bigotry that must be exorcised from the world system



posted on Aug, 26 2010 @ 02:08 PM
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reply to post by iamnot
 




"...The UN must work untiringly to exorcise religious bigotry and superstition from within their faith traditions and renounce claims to religious exclusivity and finality.”



Thank you, excellent. Sadly, this is not at all an unusual statement from the Baha'i, as alarming as it is.

If they have their way, they will come out on top, and there will be no Christianity, or Judaism, or Islam when they're done. And then, they will proceed to rewrite history, and our grandchildren will learn that these other "early" historical religions were all outdated pre-Baha'i forms, that do not apply in the modern world (or something like that).

Personally, as a nonreligious person, I can easily see problems with each of these major religions, but to replace them with something so obviously at the service of the elite agenda? Insanity.

No. Whatever the problems with these old religious traditions, I would prefer the devil I know, to the the seemingly big devil that we don't, which is starting to look like Baha'i.

JR



posted on Aug, 29 2010 @ 12:49 AM
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Baha'u'llah teaches that there is, and has always been, one Religion of God which has been progressively revealed down through the ages. The Prophets, or Manifestations of God, all reflected the Divine Will of the one God to the people of the various eras associated with the Prophets. So in this sense Judaism, Christianity, Islam, Buddhism, Baha'i, etc. are all expressions of the Will of the one true God. The social teachings may vary according to the needs of each age, but the spiritual teachings are the same. The followers of religion often misunderstand their own teachings. Baha'u'llah used the analogy of God being like the sun and the Prophets are like perfect Mirrors reflecting the Light of God to mankind. Mirrors may be square, round, triangular, but they reflect the same Light. Over time dust accumulates on each mirror symbolizing the superstitions and misunderstandings which intrude in each religion. Thus the need for a new Revelation from age to age, the need for a clear Mirror to once again reflect God's will to the human race.

Baha'u'llah addressed letters, called Tablets, to the kings and rulers of 1867 and 1868 announcing to them Who He was and inviting them to investigate His claims as well as establishing justice in their kingdoms. He addressed Pope Pius IX thusly: "O Pope! Rend the veils asunder. He Who is the Lord of Lords is come overshadowed with clouds, and the decree hath been fulfilled by God, the Almighty, the Unrestrained. Dispel the mists through the power of thy Lord, and ascend unto the Kingdom of His names and attributes. Thus hath the Pen of the Most High commanded thee at the behest of thy Lord, the Almighty, the All-Compelling. He, verily, hath again come down from Heaven even as He came down from it the first time........." Queen Victoria, Kaiser Wilhelm, the Shah of Iran and the Sultan of the Ottoman Turks were among the other monarchs who received such Tablets. At the time Baha'u'llah wrote these Tablets He was a prisoner of the Sultan of Turkey who exiled Baha'u'llah to the prison city of Akka in Palestine in an attempt to isolate and stop this new religious movement.

Why was Baha'u'llah so bitterly opposed by the governments and religious authorities in Turkey and Iran? Actually in Iran there were many religious leaders who accepted him, but the opposition was based on ignorance and the desire to maintain their power and wealth. Baha'u'llah teaches that in this age all people must be educated so that there is no need for a clergy. The Sultan of Turkey was the spiritual head of the largest group of Muslims, the Sunnis. Baha'u'llah also raised the status of women to be equal to that of men, and even gave preference to the education of women because they are the first teachers of children. It's the age old story of the religious establishment opposing any new Messiah, whether it's Jesus, Muhammed or Buddha. In every case they fail. If something is of God, then it can't be destroyed.

The Baha'i Scripture is based upon the writings of Baha'u'llah and not on stories of what people heard Him say. This is the first time in religious history that a Manifestation of God actually put His words into writing so that there can be no doubt as to what He taught. All of His Tablets are preserved at the Baha'i World Center in Haifa, Israel and translations into the languages of the world are a constant process. English is usually the first language to be translated into. And this is available in several languages on-line. So even though the Baha'i Faith may be persecuted in Iran or some Arab countries, the people of those countries have access to Baha'u'llah's writings in their own languages.



posted on Aug, 29 2010 @ 08:19 PM
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One of the expectations of the Return of Christ is that He will judge among the nations and establish the Kingdom of God on earth. I've already mentioned the "Tablets" written by Baha'u'llah (the Glory of God) in which He judged the Kings and rulers of the earth in 1867. I'd now like to give a glimpse of the nature of the "Kingdom of God" which He has come to establish.

Baha'u'llah abolished the institution of clergy and established a unique form of social organization based on the establishment of institutions He called "Houses of Justice". Each village, town and city will elect such institutions as the decision-making bodies for society. Elections are by secret ballot with no campaigning, no nominating and no volunteering. Thus such negative aspects of elections do not exist. Instead, each voter prayerfully votes for the 9 adults in the jurisdiction which he/she lives who most closely embody the spiritual qualifications to serve the community. The 9 people with the most votes are elected and will serve as a member of the House of Justice abiding by his/her own conscience and the Holy Writings, but giving no regard to what the people want. There will be no openings for lobbiests. As the name implies, the primary purpose of these institutions is justice.

Every nation will also have such a House of Justice to handle matters on the national level. There is also an international body elected called the Universal House of Justice which looks after the affairs of the world as a whole and in addition has the authority to legislate on matters not expressly mentioned in the Holy Writings. The Universal House of Justice was first elected in 1963 and its seat is in Haifa Israel. Local and National Houses of Justice have been elected in an embrionic form and are at present called "Local Spiritual Assemblies" and "National Spiritual Assemblies". This World Order of Baha'u'llah is growing organically and the Baha'is are still learning how to properly function. One of the principles given by Baha'u'llah which is vital in the function of these institutions is consultation in which all members are encouraged to contribute their viewpoints on the metter being deliberated. Members are not to see their contributions as belonging to them, but rather once it is contributed, then it no longer belongs to them. No one should have a personal stake in forwarding a particular idea, but rather the entire membership is focused on coming up with the best solution to the matter. The result is the decision of the institution and not of one or more members. So this is democracy with a very different slant to what we're accustomed to seeing in government today where conflict, egotism and contention are the rule.

This system of course applies only to Baha'is. When and if whole villages, cities or countries become Baha'i, then it will expand its sphere of concern to all aspects of social needs. This will take centuries. People not only have to become convinced of the truth of Baha'u'llah, but will need to become educated as to the Baha'i principles and how these are to be applied. So the Baha'i Faith is more than just a community of people who believe in a Prophet and gather for prayers and community events. It is a blueprint for a new society, a new civilization for the world. It is completely voluntary and Baha'u'llah makes it clear that there should be no coersion of any form. The Universal House of Justice oversees this whole development and makes certain that Baha'i principles are followed.

Harlan



posted on Aug, 30 2010 @ 10:45 AM
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reply to post by harlan
 





I don't buy into the popular illusion that there is a group of "elite" who are behind the scenes controlling the events of the world. It perhaps makes the world seem more exciting, but I don't think that the leaders of the world are that erudite to be able to do this. But I also know that people who hold to this view of reality are not able to see things otherwise.


Harlan, until you can see that "conspiracies" are in fact realities, you will remain blind to what should be obvious to anyone else who comes along, and independently takes a look at Baha'i.

You have shut a door here my friend.

There is hardly a family in the world, that doesn't have little "conspiracies" going on, let alone nations, and the world. Wherever you look, you "should" see conspiracies, if you have eyes to see.

And it's not a matter of being a "conspiracy nut", although that is getting to be part of the programming of the masses, to think that way. It is actually common sense, and the way the world is, whether we like it, or not.

Most people have heard of the ugly issue of child molestation. Actually quite common. Why? Not merely because the world is filled with perverts, but apparently, if you look into it, in most cases, there are plenty of "enablers" that ensure that such a thing continues, and goes in to the following generation too.

People may not think about such a thing as a "conspiracy", and yet, let's look at it. A wife perhaps "knows" her husband has molested a daughter. There are many ways she might know, even if she had not witnessed anything. A child's behavior changes, etc. Anyway, it seems that more often than not, instead of outrage, there is silence. And so, a mini-"conspiracy", right in the midst of many small families. And it continues when no one will speak of it, or if Grandma should shush any talk "like that", and on and on.

If such a thing happens in families, then why not at a higher level?

Continuing with the example, does there seem like there may have been a "conspiracy" of silence concerning Catholic priests molesting children? I'm not picking a religion to bash, but regardless of where one stands, at least allow the hypothetical application to this issue. Some are now saying that even the Pope was likely involved in covering up this vile embarrassment.

Are conspiracies only for "nuts", or do they happen?

How about JFK? Lone gunmen, right?

I hope you see my point.

I'm going through this not just to show that the statement you made is quite obviously a door shut too tight, but I believe that you are not so unlike most Baha'i s.

"If" you are deceived, how will you ever know, with such an attitude?

Again, I don't want this to sound personal at all, I'm simply pointing out something that should be important to anyone, regardless of their particular beliefs.

JR



posted on Aug, 30 2010 @ 11:21 AM
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I wonder, will god only "save" those who are of the Baha'i faith?



posted on Aug, 31 2010 @ 12:33 AM
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JR,

My question to you is: How do you distinguish between a conspiracy and something which is what it appears to be? From what you say, you must think that everything is a conspiracy.

My own conclusion concerning determining what is real and what is not is that everything must be investigated with an open mind to ascertain the facts. I good background in science, history and logic helps. I do not accept anything as fact just because it is in writing. I listen regularly to a radio program called Coast to Coast which I find interesting, but there are a lot of conspiracy theories presented which I listen to but don't accept as reality just because I heard it on the radio. I also enjoy science fiction and these conspiracy theories I enjoy just like I enjoy science fiction. A lifetime of experience has given me a balance to distinguish between reality and make-believe.

After investigating the Baha'i Faith over these many years, I find it to be the closest thing to reality that I've ever seen. On top of that it is beautiful and overflowing with love.

Harlan



posted on Aug, 31 2010 @ 01:36 AM
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reply to post by colloredbrothers
 


There is still no real proof that Jesus was ever here so why should anyone believe that he is coming back? All religions are merely a sales pitch to people who need something in their lives to give their lives a purpose/meaning/blah blah freaking blah. This baha'i stuff is no different, they may seem peaceful but so does every other religion, in theory. They have the same goal as every other made up religion - convert the world! Sounds like a nice religion for tree hugging commie hippies to belong to, not that there is anything wrong with that.



posted on Aug, 31 2010 @ 07:18 PM
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Originally posted by harlan
JR,

My question to you is: How do you distinguish between a conspiracy and something which is what it appears to be? From what you say, you must think that everything is a conspiracy.

My own conclusion concerning determining what is real and what is not is that everything must be investigated with an open mind to ascertain the facts. I good background in science, history and logic helps. I do not accept anything as fact just because it is in writing. I listen regularly to a radio program called Coast to Coast which I find interesting, but there are a lot of conspiracy theories presented which I listen to but don't accept as reality just because I heard it on the radio. I also enjoy science fiction and these conspiracy theories I enjoy just like I enjoy science fiction. A lifetime of experience has given me a balance to distinguish between reality and make-believe.

After investigating the Baha'i Faith over these many years, I find it to be the closest thing to reality that I've ever seen. On top of that it is beautiful and overflowing with love.

Harlan



I appreciate you taking that small step back from your first statement, which was rather sweeping. While you didn't mention my example of the JFK assassination, I hope I can assume that you do in fact allow for some conspiracy after all. I think that's a start.

Of course, it's really a paradigm issue ultimately. Because even if you make allowances for "rare" cases of conspiracy, or perhaps the more mundane ones, if your outlook tends to classify "conspiracy" in the same way you do "science fiction", you may still be pretty far off the mark.

You wonder if perhaps I imagine "everything" is a conspiracy? Well, perhaps there are characters like that, such as the one Mel Gibson played in the movie "Conspiracy Theory", but really, THAT was fiction.

The reality is that the truth probably lies somewhere in the middle. Sure, even there I have made a choice, because if things were as bad as "The Matrix", then there would be no middle, it would be either the Blue pill, or the Red.

OK, so you say you have an "open mind". From what you've said, you are also probably versed in science, history, and logic. You also do not casually "accept" a thing, merely because it is in writing. And finally, you cite your "lifetime" of experience, to top it all off.

And yet, your question was:

"How do you distinguish between a conspiracy and something which is what it appears to be?"

Yes, appearances are deceiving. For example, you are a member of ATS, you post replies, you engage others in discourse, argument perhaps, etc. But by your own statement, it is mere entertainment for you, when it comes to "conspiracies" at least.

Open mind? Well, the other way to look at it is that you are in fact here. Perhaps your search continues after all.

But back to your question. I think that lots of people here on ATS can answer that, in their own ways, and in most cases, what they would share would be their own story. The story of perhaps an "awakening", their awakening.

For some of us, there will be an "event" in our personal histories, and the scales fall from our eyes, and afterward, we see as never before. In this case, the experience is normally "not" business as usual, often it can involve trauma, and tragedy, not always our own, but it still hits us in a personal way.

Other times, it might be much as you seem to insinuate has been the norm for you. There may be a period of study, things learned might be weighed against a "lifetime" of experience, etc. If you are lucky, your personal orientation will not squelch a message that would otherwise never dawn on you. Yes, there's that open mind again.

For most of us, life serves up a combination of the above, sometimes there is more emphasis on the path of "pain", as our attention turns away from our routines, other times we may be inspired by "beauty" (as you mention you seem to have been with Baha'i).

And so, it is all very personal, as we are on different paths.

AND YET, there are things that all of us "should" take into account, regardless of our current outlook, or our personal experiences. What might some of those be?

Historical Context. Many of us have heard the term before, perhaps as applied to translated words found in ancient scripture, etc. A variant of this would be...

Cultural Context. Most of us do not fall so far from the tree, and "who" we are (or who we think we are) unmistakably colors our outlook.

There are plenty of others, but these might be enough for keeping it short in this thread. A key aspect of these is that they are distinct from things more "personal", that we naturally tend to focus on when it comes to the evolution of our thoughts, and attitudes.

And yet, these certainly cannot be ignored. In fact, due to their higher-level nature, they perhaps "should" be given even more weight, as we go about the business of "discernment".

And that's the word to use, as we look out upon what can be a very confusing landscape.

Culture. Western Culture alone could take up pages! Materialist assumptions, a culture that dominates other cultures. Really, the world's "super-culture". Here is where the term "Matrix" is popularly applied often (and with good reason).

Your question was short, and yet, we've just begun!

Perhaps next time, we should get more into the historical part as well, which might be even more important, depending upon the time in which we find ourselves considering these issues.

Speaking of issues, this issue of "conspiracy", especially here on ATS, is indeed a serious matter. It is far from science-fiction!

JR



posted on Sep, 1 2010 @ 01:35 AM
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jr,

I suppose we have to get down to how we see the nature of reality. We live in a culture which sees reality as material. The Baha'i view, which is mine, is that reality is spiritual, or non-material, that we are spiritual beings and not just mammals with big brains. In other words our mammalian body is not who we are. This is probably closer to the view of human cultures outside of our present day Western culture. We are born into this material existence for a purpose. The world of atoms is for our education and growth. There is a lot of mystery involved in this journey, much pain and joy as we struggle to figure it all out. But look at history. Certain majestic Figures in history have been spiritual Guides who have given insights and laws to guide souls in their journey. We know of Moses, Krishna, Buddha, Zoroaster, Jesus, and Muhammed who have generated enduring cultures and stimulated people to lead fruitful lives and find their true purpose in life. There were others who have been lost to history. And Baha'is now recognize Baha'u'llah as the latest of these Divine Luminaries. I suppose you could think of this as a Divine Conspiracy to guide mankind towards a historical goal as well as providing individual souls with enlightenment. All of these Luminaries have had one purpose and are inspired by the same mysterious Divine Source.

All of these Prophets have been accused of being the enemies of true religion because they were upsetting the apple cart of the entrenched religious authorities. This has been done in an attempt to belittle them in the eyes of the people. The same has been, and continues to be done to the Baha'i Faith. At one time the Iranian religious authorities accused the British of being behind the Baha'i Faith. At another time they accused the Russians, and the latest accusation is that Baha'i is a Zionist creation. Whoever is the boogyman at the moment is behind the Baha'is. They don't want to admit that one person, Baha'u'llah, could have the power to bring about the large number of enthusiastic followers who are willing to die rather than surrender their faith. On top of this, these Baha'is are in the forefront of progressive culture in Iran encouraging education, especially for women.

You mention the death of John Kennedy. I only know what I see on T.V. If new knowledge becomes available about, then that's great. I don't have any particular "belief" about this. It's always difficult to believe that one nut can change history by killing a prominent leader, but it can happen. History really doesn't become clear until the passing of a considerable time. Not only new facts sometimes appear, but how the facts are interpreted change with time. All history is someone's interpretation. The victors write the history. It's all very interesting, but from a Baha'i perspective everything is leading to the eventual unity of mankind in a Federation of Nations, with people seeing themselves as one humanity with the need to live together in harmony for the benefit and prosperity of mankind. The Divine Conspiracy.

Determining reality also involves deciding on the likelihood of things happening. Some things have a small likelihood of happening or being real. Other things are highly likely. In the time of Baha'u'llah, the 19th century, it was highly unlikely that the Kings of the world would ever unite, and His enemies laughted at this. Today it is very likely that this will happen. Somehow the world was changed during this time to cause people to consider new possibilities or new necessities for the kind of world needed for civilization to progress. It was also hightly unlikely in Baha'u'llah's time that women would be treated equally with men. Even in western countries women had few rights. Today it is not even debated that women should have equal rights to education, work, etc.



posted on Sep, 1 2010 @ 05:29 AM
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there are those who say religion is the antichrist, religion is your enemy and in the end it turns out those people are bahai, which is the most religious institution I have ever heard about yet. It touts the strictest of guidelines, rules, laws and ordinances, it really is a step back all the way to the 10th century.

on top of that, it made the glory of an uncorruptible god to a thing like corruptible man.

the bahai is the rebellious house of Adonikam, the risen lord. what torment to not believe in a ressurrection and an end to all former things but to keep reincarnating into a system of world beliefs, just to worship another man. no thankyou

there are people of all faiths that would die for their faith, that is not something unique to bahais alone. the unique thing about Jesus Christ is the end of sins. In the end that's what it boils down to too.



posted on Sep, 1 2010 @ 05:35 AM
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reply to post by colloredbrothers
 


Hi! You are young, you are so right!

I am awe-inspired at your research!

And you are so right! Christ is here!



posted on Sep, 1 2010 @ 06:47 AM
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Why are you searching for a religion that fits your way of how a religion should be like...?

Why can't you just belief in the one God and everything good as it should suppose to be good...

The katholic church has been invested by evil and so has most other world religions..

Take all the good and worship the God that is responsible for all that good....I am sure He will listen to you and help you on your way....



posted on Sep, 1 2010 @ 08:51 PM
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reply to post by harlan
 




...from a Baha'i perspective everything is leading to the eventual unity of mankind in a Federation of Nations, with people seeing themselves as one humanity with the need to live together in harmony for the benefit and prosperity of mankind. The Divine Conspiracy.


Harlan,

In my opinion, our masters might even laugh, if they saw someone referring to their conspiracy as "Divine".

Sorry, I don't want to be disrespectful, you are clearly a person who enjoys the serenity that religion can give.

Frankly, the Baha'i message undoubtedly has appeal, for many. I quoted you above, not only to underscore the "divine conspiracy" comment, but because you waxed so eloquent as you began talking about the coming Brotherhood of Man, the federation of nations, harmony, etc.

If I was to guess, a lot of people might "want" that. Nothing wrong with a world that has (finally) recognized harmony as a virtue.

And then, we woke up!

Sadly, this isn't the humanity that I know. It's not reality, although I would like to say that it is attractive enough, for many to chase after it ardently. Most especially after yet another war, perhaps people will want peace and security so much, they will gladly give up their freedom.

And then, we will have our Utopia. And ALL will be Baha'i!

Except for that "we"...

Our masters plan on remaining firmly in charge. They have no intention of giving up their immense power, and wealth, for peace and harmony. Not something they want really.

But they may one day allow for some "Security", as long as it is on their terms. And those terms are really not acceptable, at least not to those of us who understand that "those who would trade freedom for security, deserve neither."

So, you only know what you have heard on TV about Kennedy? You have little reason to doubt anything, all is well?

9/11...all is well!

"NWO"?? YES, Baha'u'llah said it first! It is indeed a "Divine Conspiracy"!!

Listen to yourself Harlan.

And then be afraid. Very afraid, that you are among the first, who have fallen, apparently hook, line and sinker, for this "Divine Conspiracy" as you have called it.

Honestly, I wouldn't even care, if you, and the United Nations, etc., weren't determined to one day have my grandchildren laboring under your delusions.

Let's imagine that world:
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

It's the year 2100 (no, they don't go by "the old calendar" anymore, but for our purposes, it's not so far in the future).

It's a beautiful world! The Final War ended generations ago, and in the aftermath, a demoralized humankind found itself quite happy to just be able to eat, work, and live.

Briefly, there was the World Federation of Nations, but not long ago, it voluntarily dissolved, in favor of the Supreme Planetary Authority.

All have work to do. There is no hunger. All are equal!

"To each according to his needs, from each according to his abilities..."

What a wonderful slogan! It adorns banners everywhere, lest we forget.

Best of all, there is no more of the old divisions. "Christians?" Oh yes, there used to be some in the Old Days. "Muslims"? Praise GadAllah, there are none anymore! Jews? Double-praises to Gadallah!!

"Mum...I saw a picture of a very "white" person this morning...were some people really that white in the Old Days?"

"Father...Tell me of the Old Days..."

"And it came to pass..."

Here, you can pretty much put in what ever you want. History can literally be rewritten. Buddha? Of course he had Baha'i in mind! Jesus? Just another "Reflection of God"!

All Roads Lead to...Baha'i.

"Divine" conspiracy indeed.

JR



posted on Sep, 2 2010 @ 09:46 AM
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Originally posted by harlan
I suppose we have to get down to how we see the nature of reality. We live in a culture which sees reality as material. The Baha'i view, which is mine, is that reality is spiritual, or non-material, that we are spiritual beings and not just mammals with big brains...

We are born into this material existence for a purpose...

Certain majestic Figures in history have been spiritual Guides who have given insights and laws to guide souls in their journey. We know of Moses, Krishna, Buddha, Zoroaster, Jesus, and Muhammed...

And Baha'is now recognize Baha'u'llah as the latest of these Divine Luminaries. I suppose you could think of this as a Divine Conspiracy to guide mankind towards a historical goal as well as providing individual souls with enlightenment. All of these Luminaries have had one purpose and are inspired by the same mysterious Divine Source.

...History really doesn't become clear until the passing of a considerable time. Not only new facts sometimes appear, but how the facts are interpreted change with time. All history is someone's interpretation. The victors write the history...

Determining reality also involves deciding on the likelihood of things happening.


I personally agree with much of what you have shared, and no doubt the majority would feel similarly.

Of course mere Materialism is rather limited.

Yes, most of us would prefer to think there is Purpose, else why care about anything?

Your short list of "Divine Luminaries" reads like the Who is Who of spiritual history. Baha'i claims all these Greats as theirs. Maybe we should review that a bit...

The Baha'i conclusion is that all these figures are part of divine guidance, and that there is indeed a "historical goal" (as you put it) for humankind.

We could think of Baha'i as having formulated something of a "grand unified theory" of religion, reinterpreting these great figures, attempting the impossible task of literally "harmonizing" the very different teachings of these figures.

And yet, the Baha'i actually imagine they have done it! They think that Muhammed can be reconciled with Jesus. The message of Jesus? SAME basic one as Krishna's. Any differences in their messages (that we think we see), are only due to the reasonable application of the message within the context of the peoples, and times that the message was delivered.

It can sort of "sound" reasonable, in a way...

In one of my previous posts, I mentioned Historical Context, which seems relevant, considering it is one of Baha'i's blanket excuses to sweep aside obvious major differences in religious teachings.

Here is OUR historical context:

The Post-War World

Two unprecedented gigantic wars were fought, practically back-to-back in the previous century.

As most know, the Old World fell away as a result. Sure, a few royals were left over, but the old system was dead.

As a replacement, "international" structures were proposed, leading to our present, with a United Nations (or whatever body replaces it), set to increase, even as all nations decrease.

In this post-war period, few in the West have known war. While war indeed rages all around, there is Korea, Vietnam, etc., and behind these, the "Cold War", the media does it's part to create a "new" world, where very few within the Western matrix personally experience war.

AS A RESULT, there was a huge paradigm shift in the West that has left most of us in this "new world", with little more than an academic understanding of war. Sure, there are those who actually went to some recent "war", but they are few, and mostly left confused, and out-of-step with the dominant culture, that really has no place for these old "vets", with their problems, etc. Besides, most volunteered for their pain!

Anyway, the average person today is dangerously disconnected with the huge potential reality of war, in spite of the fact that two mega-wars were fought in relatively recent history.

Naturally, people might tend to underestimate the possibility that war could yet again engulf the globe. They might underestimate the potential for yet another "Hitler" rising again.

In short, a very dangerous thing called tyranny, is not even on the radar anymore.

NO WONDER "milk and water" religions can prosper in this environment!

Of course, a better world is just around the corner!

"Fear" a One-World Government?? No!! On the contrary, let's embrace it! What is there to fear?

"Fear" a Nostradamasesque mega-dictator? Yeah right! Why would anyone worry about "dictators"?? That's SO 20th Century!!

This is the historical context for where we find ourselves today, and explains a lot about the many things we may choose to "accept" as "reality", based on our experiences.

And yet, what skewed experience it is.

Taking a bigger step back, we find that perhaps we really should remain vigilant. Humankind has perhaps NOT "evolved" so much in the past 50 years!!

You say:



..History really doesn't become clear until the passing of a considerable time. Not only new facts sometimes appear, but how the facts are interpreted change with time. All history is someone's interpretation. The victors write the history...


Yes, the victors write the history. Yes, things are interpreted. Certainly, the passing of time can help clarify certain chapters.

OR NOT. In this case, if we find that we are no longer on our guard, that we no longer fear "communism" (or fascism, etc.), that we now consider war a "thing of the past". That the term "dictator" feels a bit too "sci-fi", as you put it. That we really do "believe" things can only get better, etc...

THEN, I would suggest taking a closer look at the whole again.

QUESTION your version of reality. Factor in the sobering realities I mention above. Resist the temptation to cast them aside, or minimize them.

Harlan, you mention "likelihood". Such a thing is very colored by our context of course, but I don't think it's a stretch to finally invoke the ancients here: There is nothing new under the sun.

Got war in the past? You're still going to have it in the future.

Got greed in the past? Ain't going away.

Lust? Here to stay.

It's about who we are, who we have always been. If we blindly reject these facts, and we fail to learn from history...

WE ARE DOOMED TO REPEAT IT.

JR





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