Send Tamil migrants home: Poll

To both juniperberry and FreeSpeaker.

Gangs have NO relationship to immigration.

They may occasionally use (or abuse) immigration policies to get other gang members here, but that wouldn't change even if we stopped all legal immigration.

Gangs are here for one purpose and one purpose only.

TO MAKE MONEY!

Most of the drug gangs in BC and Alberta TRADE marijuana for other drugs (coc aine, heroine, etc.) and weapons. If our government legalized marijuana it would reduce gangs in western Canada by a far larger margin than any other political or police action.

CannaBiz

This is a documentary CBC did on the marijuana business, I highly recommend it.

Now back to the topic at hand.

Freespeaker, you do realize that these refugees won't be sent directly into the population right?

They are in the process of screening and removing non-refugee compliant people now, so where is the big problem in the system?

Originally posted by peck420
To both juniperberry and FreeSpeaker.

Gangs have NO relationship to immigration.

They may occasionally use (or abuse) immigration policies to get other gang members here, but that wouldn't change even if we stopped all legal immigration.

Gangs are here for one purpose and one purpose only.

TO MAKE MONEY!

Most of the drug gangs in BC and Alberta TRADE marijuana for other drugs (coc aine, heroine, etc.) and weapons. If our government legalized marijuana it would reduce gangs in western Canada by a far larger margin than any other political or police action.

CannaBiz

This is a documentary CBC did on the marijuana business, I highly recommend it.

Now back to the topic at hand.

Freespeaker, you do realize that these refugees won't be sent directly into the population right?

They are in the process of screening and removing non-refugee compliant people now, so where is the big problem in the system?

First off I have a friend who is a police officer in the street crime and gang unit. You cannot tell me gangs have no relationship to immigration when he says they cannot even press charges on some of these gang members because they are here illegally and have no ID or records of any kind. Cases like that tie up the system so badly the cops have been forced to set many free. And you say there is no problem.

As for the topic at hand, my problem is not with the system but with how its abused. I will not now and never will condone refugees showing up at the door uninvited. We have laws and procedures for refugees to follow for a reason and any time I see those laws and procedures being bypassed I will voice my opposition as is my right as a Canadian citizen.

reply to post by FreeSpeaker


I can see that I'm not going to get anywhere arguing with you. Refugee claims are a part of immigration law, and if these people have been received as prospective refugees, then they are within the law. There is no way to make this more clear to you, and you are obviously rejecting it because you want to characterize them as illegal persons to make it easier to reject them from the country.

Your ignorance of the history and development of Canadian government and the sources of its legal power is too great to be dealt with in a single post, and I don't think I will bother going into great detail over it. I suspect that you're an Americanized Canadian that likes republicanism and thinks that the Crown is negligible or anachronistic.

The short version is; parliament makes recommendations to the Sovereign, who is free to accept, adjust, or deny those recommendations. By custom the sovereign interferes very little in the affairs of the House of Commons. Her Majesty interacts with her government at the highest levels; her first minister (Rt. Hon. Stephen Harper) and her Privy Council for Canada advise her on state matters. All legal power resides with her majesty and emanates from her, and the ultimate reason for Canada's appearance as a democratic state is that the Sovereign volulntarily folows the advice of elected officials. It is entirely within her legal right to do otherwise.

[edit on 24-8-2010 by SmedleyBurlap]

Originally posted by FreeSpeaker

First off I have a friend who is a police officer in the street crime and gang unit. You cannot tell me gangs have no relationship to immigration when he says they cannot even press charges on some of these gang members because they are here illegally and have no ID or records of any kind. Cases like that tie up the system so badly the cops have been forced to set many free. And you say there is no problem.

Hey look you made my point for me...and, incase you missed it, I will bold it for you.

Note the word "illegally", that isn't because of a bad "refugee system", that is because criminals will find a way in...as long as there is a profit to be made.

Maybe you should go ask your police officer friend if what gangs fight for?

I'll give you a quick list:
1) Territory - the bigger your territory the bigger your client base

Originally posted by SmedleyBurlap
reply to post by FreeSpeaker

 

I can see that I'm not going to get anywhere arguing with you. Refugee claims are a part of immigration law, and if these people have been received as prospective refugees, then they are within the law. There is no way to make this more clear to you, and you are obviously rejecting it because you want to characterize them as illegal persons to make it easier to reject them from the country.
[edit on 24-8-2010 by SmedleyBurlap]

These people forced us to accept them as refugees by bypassing our laws but that means nothing to you because you belive they should have right irreguardless of our laws apparently.

Originally posted by SmedleyBurlapYour ignorance of the history and development of Canadian government and the sources of its legal power is too great to be dealt with in a single post, and I don't think I will bother going into great detail over it. I suspect that you're an Americanized Canadian that likes republicanism and thinks that the Crown is negligible or anachronistic.
[edit on 24-8-2010 by SmedleyBurlap]

Do you get out much? Book smarts will only get you so far. The crown is a leftover and has no real power other than on paper. Do you really believe Canadians would accept the Queen of England overruling our collective will? Find 10 Canadians to agree with you and I will acknowledge your greater understanding of Canadian governance.

Originally posted by peck420
Hey look you made my point for me...and, incase you missed it, I will bold it for you.

Note the word "illegally", that isn't because of a bad "refugee system", that is because criminals will find a way in...as long as there is a profit to be made.

Can you prove its not because of a bad refugee or immigration system or is this just your opinion because I don't see any links to any supporting material?

Obviously we have a bad system when people can enter our country without ID or papers of any kind.

reply to post by FreeSpeaker


Thank you for confirming that I am right.

They did not 'force' anybody to accept them as refugees. They applied through the normal channel for refugees. They have rights under our laws because Canada recognizes the UN declaration of human rights; all human beings have equal rights regardless (note the spelling) of their citizenship status. The laws in this country permit anybody to seek refuge or sanctuary in Canada, although for practical purposes they must have their claims assessed by the state, as is happening right now. They are not doing anything outside of the law, and the state has effectively invited them by permitting their boat to land at a Canadian port.

Now I know for certain that you are a republican who thinks that popularity equates to legal right. Maybe if you had more book smarts you would understand that power in this country radiates from the top down.

[edit on 24-8-2010 by SmedleyBurlap]

reply to post by peck420


Sorry dude, not true. We have quite the jail population that are from Sri Lanka. They may be here but they have brought their war over here with them. That's a fact. I could Google the stats for you but I work in Canada's largest correctional facility.

reply to post by FreeSpeaker


If the gangs are made up of mostly illegal immigrants, then they bypassed the immigration system altogether.

The refugees that 63% of Canadians want to send home have been received by the immigration system and would only be illegal immigrants if they snuck away before being processed.

reply to post by FreeSpeaker


Sure, look south.

The United States is a PERFECT example.

Criminals will find away in regardless, as long as there is profit.

Do you think the leaders of these "gangs" arrive and setup their operations through refugee status?

Or do you think the come on private jets?

reply to post by intrepid


So, by that logic we should stop all refugee's from Sri Lanka?

How about all refugees from Africa...I can tell you that they don't all get along either.

But, it is our job as Canadians to show them a better life, how to live peacefully.

I think that any area we recieve refugees from will have problems at the beginning, that goes without saying. They won't drop all grudges and hatred overnight.

Maybe you can find me stats on how many Canadian citizens born to Sri Lankan refugees are in jail, that would be far more interesting.

Originally posted by SmedleyBurlap

Thank you for confirming that I am right.

They applied through the normal channel for refugees.

[edit on 24-8-2010 by SmedleyBurlap]

Your right in your own head. So showing up by boat is the normal channel for refugees. Care to show me where in our laws it says that?

Please show me if your right and I'm wrong.

I'm betting you have nothing to show.

reply to post by FreeSpeaker


Showing up and DECLARING yourself a refugee is the normal pracitce.

They could have jumped ship and disappeared, but they didn't.

"Canada offers refugee protection to people in Canada who fear persecution or whose removal from Canada would subject them to a danger of torture, a risk to their life or a risk of cruel and unusual treatment or punishment."

Source

All you need to do to start your refugee claim, is literally, declare yourself a refugee.

This doesn't mean you will be granted status, but you will be assesed by Immigration Canada.

Edit to add sources.

[edit on 24-8-2010 by peck420]

Originally posted by intrepid
reply to post by peck420

 

Sorry dude, not true. We have quite the jail population that are from Sri Lanka. They may be here but they have brought their war over here with them. That's a fact. I could Google the stats for you but I work in Canada's largest correctional facility.

Doesn't matter if they hear the truth from the horses mouth because they are unwilling to listen. Its like arguing with my deaf cousin but without the excuse of him being deaf.

reply to post by FreeSpeaker


Actually I can see their point. We are a tolerant nation that has been successful because of immigration. I've worked with western Europeans, eastern Europeans, people from the Caribe. South America. ALL OVER ASIA. Hell if the Chinese that are different from the other Chinese can get along here, we're talking 2 distinct languages and a multitude of dialects, anyone can. They are a proud people. The Sri Lankans don't seem to have the same wherewithall. Their hate is still present here. Not good for our society.

Originally posted by peck420
reply to post by FreeSpeaker

 

Showing up and DECLARING yourself a refugee is the normal pracitce.

They could have jumped ship and disappeared, but they didn't.

"Canada offers refugee protection to people in Canada who fear persecution or whose removal from Canada would subject them to a danger of torture, a risk to their life or a risk of cruel and unusual treatment or punishment."

Source

All you need to do to start your refugee claim, is literally, declare yourself a refugee.

This doesn't mean you will be granted status, but you will be assesed by Immigration Canada.

Edit to add sources.

[edit on 24-8-2010 by peck420]

Trying to display the facts in a untruthful manner to support your argument is pretty weak.

Depending on where you live, and the reason for your visit, you will need to meet certain entry requirements. In some cases, if you plan to stay in Canada for a certain period of time, you will need a Temporary Resident Visa.

One has to follow the steps even to visit here so how does one show up without doing so to claim refugee status without breaking our laws. Sorry folks you cannot show up uninvited and if you do so you have bypassed our immigration laws which is ILLEGAL.

reply to post by FreeSpeaker


Haha, I grabbed this link before I read down to peck420's post.
www.cic.gc.ca...

There are two ways to apply for refugee protection in Canada:

* You can make a claim when you arrive in Canada, at the port of entry. This could be at an airport, a seaport or a Canada-United States border crossing. At ports of entry, claims are received by officers of the Canada Border Services Agency.
* You can also make a claim from within Canada at a Citizenship and Immigration Canada office.

Check and mate


edit: emphasis added

[edit on 24-8-2010 by SmedleyBurlap]

reply to post by FreeSpeaker


By saying that there is lots of Sri lankans in prison means nothing.

To what percentage of the population, to what percentage of the Sri Lankan population.

And I'm the one that's the deaf cousin...

reply to post by intrepid


Interpid,

I don't want a Sri Lankan - Tamil war in Canada either.

But, to judge these people before they even make landfall is ridiculous.

If our government does the job that they are supposed to do, only the "honest" refugee claimants will be let in and the rest can go home.

I just choose to reserve judgement on them until more than just "Tamil Tigers" is known.

Originally posted by intrepid
reply to post by FreeSpeaker

 

Actually I can see their point. We are a tolerant nation that has been successful because of immigration. I've worked with western Europeans, eastern Europeans, people from the Caribe. South America. ALL OVER ASIA. Hell if the Chinese that are different from the other Chinese can get along here, we're talking 2 distinct languages and a multitude of dialects, anyone can.

I do see their point also but I also see the melting pot that has been created by poor immigration policies. People need time to adjust to their new way of life when they get here and we need time to adjust to them. We are moving to fast though. Immigration is growing every year without allowing for the time it takes for people to intergrate into our society. Its like a succession of waves that get larger and larger every year erroding the solidarity of our nation.