Retired General Slams NY 'Mosque' Critics

Originally posted by the2ofusr1
Muslim Community Center
Keith Olbermann - Special Comment

Video A must watch .... peace www.informationclearinghouse.info...

Olbermann...."I could have been a actor but I wound up here".

Originally posted by Logarock
As if we havent done enough already thats what gets me.

And mosque supporters vow to move forward! On ward muslim soilders marching as to war, with the sword of Ali going on before!

If muslims are not satisfied at this point that we want peace with them and that we are not at war with this ever peacefull bunch then one must believe that our efforts are seen not as a williness to get along, but a certain capitulation and a bending toward the ways of Islam.

Can you list some of the things we have done besides dropping bombs on them that you feel is endearing.

What generous things do you feel we have done besides leaving depleted uranium shells and bullets all over two nations that are causing a rash of birth defects and cancers?

Or is it that spectacular new shopping mall in Afghanistan that only foreigners are allowed to shop in, that the people who make 14.00 a year couldn't afford to visit anyway that is to make them so happy?

Or is it the schools that teach them it's nice of us to drop bombs on them, and make up creative names to villify their own desire for independence and sovereignty in their own nations?

Or is it the hospitals we have built where they can get their limbs amputated after we bomb them?

Or is it the roads we build for their yaks that suspiciously accomodate our tanks and personnel carriers so much better.

Do tell.

How horrible it will be for those who call evil good and good evil, who turn darkness into light and light into darkness, who turn what is bitter into something sweet and what is sweet into something bitter.

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler



No thank. And if you have to ask you shouldnt be commenting about it.

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler


I got to respect him for atleast being cool enough to try and talk to the people he is representing. Its just amazing how much hatred exist from some of the ignorant Americans for the people of Islam. And it sickens me to see the ignorant Americanaz people automatically place all individuals who represent Islam in one basket. Basically breeding hatred for Americanaz that may effect the children of this nation. Can none who are doing all this racist behavior see they are damaging their American families younger generations who will eventually grow up and begin to interact with Islamic younger generations. CAN WE NOT FIX THIS HATEFULL PROBLEM FOR THE NEXT GENERATIONS OR IS IT EMBEDDED SO DEEP WITHIN SOME THAT THERE IS NO CARE FOR YOUNGER GENERATIONS. And the hardhats, WHAT A DISSAPOINTMENT 10x FOLD. Now you got this petty issue effecting the professional business mentality HOW LAME DO WE LOOK FOR THIS globally. Yet many years back those HARDHAT companies were being spawned from non AMERICANAZ immigrants WHO CAME HERE TO FIND A BETTER WAY OF LIFE THAT EXCEPTED DIVERSITY and look now SHOULD BE ASHAMED MANY SHOULD. So quickly some forget the INTEGRATION FACTOR OF THIS COUNTRY that allowed them to thrive in this country and become maga construction companies. I love what America is said to stand for, but many folx here are just again too high up mentally to care about any other then those who they can relate or click with gangstaz lol.

[edit on 8/20/10 by Ophiuchus 13]

I use to come here because it was a great News/Conspiracy website.
Got a chance to learn a lot and share with some great mind in every corner of the world about many
topics. Great minds here on ATS.

But lately I have overdosed with the hatred and intolerance directed towards Muslims. I've never felt it so much
concentrated in one place, and the comments are backed by so many other bigots,
it's just to overwhelming and impossible for dialogue, since you(the bigot) already made up your mind about
the subject.

Don't you understand it hurts us all to be falsely judged on a day to day basis ?

Don't you understand your REAL ENEMY is delighted his propaganda has been successful on you ?

Don't you understand being a bigot/racist is being SICK and DEFECTIVE ?

And if you want peace around you and in your heart, you will have to become more tolerant ,
if not, you will remain hateful, sick and defective. Sick people need healing and
help, really, lot's of help.

And yes, hate, prejudice towards any nation, race, people or religion(not just Muslims)
is just backwards and wrong. Great people of the past have done so much to fight prejudice, yet,
it seems we still have a lot to learn.

We have NO choice, we have to learn to live together and find a way. At least, for our children
and for future generation's sake.

PEACE PLEASE !

Originally posted by samsamm9
I use to come here because it was a great News/Conspiracy website.
Got a chance to learn a lot and share with some great mind in every corner of the world about many
topics. Great minds here on ATS.

But lately I have overdosed with the hatred and intolerance directed towards Muslims. I've never felt it so much
concentrated in one place, and the comments are backed by so many other bigots,
it's just to overwhelming and impossible for dialogue, since you(the bigot) already made up your mind about
the subject.

Don't you understand it hurts us all to be falsely judged on a day to day basis ?

Don't you understand your REAL ENEMY is delighted his propaganda has been successful on you ?

Don't you understand being a bigot/racist is being SICK and DEFECTIVE ?

And if you want peace around you and in your heart, you will have to become more tolerant ,
if not, you will remain hateful, sick and defective. Sick people need healing and
help, really, lot's of help.

And yes, hate, prejudice towards any nation, race, people or religion(not just Muslims)
is just backwards and wrong. Great people of the past have done so much to fight prejudice, yet,
it seems we still have a lot to learn.

We have NO choice, we have to learn to live together and find a way. At least, for our children
and for future generation's sake.

PEACE PLEASE !

I am quoting your entire post because it needs to be repeated. I was drawn to this site for the research, the curious minds, the alternative topics. What I see more and more every day is a crowd of bigots and narrow-minded, scared people.

It is so sad to read the hatred and intolerance. What is even sadder is these very people that spout such ignorant views also believe in things like government conspiracies to control the public and popular opinion via propaganda. How ironic, no?

Bigots exist everywhere. They exist in Christian towns in the middle of Texas, they exist in NYC, they exist in Mosul. These are the same people that are drawn to extremism. All religions have extremists as do all nations (extreme nationalism) because extremism and bigotry are both taking an ideal and running with it with no compromise.

I live in NYC and I work with, ride the subway with, eat with, play softball with, and enjoy sunsets with: Christians, Muslims, Jews, Hindus, Buddhists, Pagans, Agnostics and Atheists and more every single day. My life would be HELL if the hatred and intolerance many of you hold dear to your misguided hearts as some sort of perverted "patriotism" were more prevalent.

If you strongly oppose the mosque/cultural center, please do all of us a favor and think long and hard what exactly it is that upsets you about this. Do you believe all 1,600,000,000 Muslims in the world supported 9/11? Do you think the Muslims that live, work and raise families in NYC did? Are you just being sensitive to dead people? Do you think families of 9/11 victims would be hurt by walking past a positive religious center a few blocks away from WTC? HAVE YOU BEEN TO LOWER MANHATTAN???

If there was ever a "hot button" issue that really struck a nerve with me, it is this one. It bugs me to no end because for the life of me I cannot understand WHY THIS IS NEWS. We are all being manipulated and the minute I think people are catching on to the manipulation, something like this comes up and people bite onto it - hook, line and sinker.

[edit on 20-8-2010 by nydsdan]

reply to post by nydsdan


Thank you Brother(or Sister?) Thank you for understanding.



[edit on 20-8-2010 by samsamm9]

[edit on 20-8-2010 by samsamm9]

reply to post by samsamm9


Thank you for your excellent post, I am in full agreement with you, I don't live in New York but have many friends who do and am in close touch with them and they all feel as you do, it is sad what a few extremist and media has done to our country yet again.

Originally posted by Logarock
reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

 

No thank. And if you have to ask you shouldnt be commenting about it.

So in other words you couldn't come up with one reason either why the Islamic world should be appreciative of American actions and stances towards it?

Thanks for illustrating your position so well but do remember:



[edit on 20/8/10 by ProtoplasmicTraveler]

Thanks, Proto.

Not much to add other than every one of my friends in the military and former military who have been to the Middle East and Central Asia have no problem with the community center whatsoever. That should tell us a lot.

This story and the two videos ModernAcademia posted are also here: The War for Your Mind: "Ground Zero Mosque" in Deconstructing Disinformation, along with a lot of other information about this issue. Not a plug. Just in case someone should want to read more or has more to add with this collection.

[edit on 8/20/2010 by ~Lucidity]

reply to post by ~Lucidity


I think what your U.S. Soldier friends are displaying is something that those of us who know and interact normally here in America with Muslims already know, and that's that they are typical normal every day people like all of us.

I think so much of this comes from Americans that just don't interact with or know any Muslims and as a result have fallen prey to the stereo types mostly pushed by the Military Industrialists, and our own non-Muslim extremists of other faiths.

It's a pitty that people are afraid to reach out and get to know these people better who do contribute to the richness and fabric of American life.

Funny some editorial writers are saying that the Muslims should reach out and try to be more moderate, and in reality that's what they are doing as 16 stories of this building are an inter-faith non denominational community center for the community.

Of course the people who actually live there who know they can benefit from it are in favor of it, it's the people who don't live there who really don't care, who are just concerned how they can twist and misrepresent this for their own political agenda or religious agenda's benefit who seem to be causing most of the controversy.

Hopefully that will all change one day.

Thanks for posting.

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler

Here is yet another side to the coin in the very controversial mosque and community center project to be build blocks away from the site of the former World Trade Center.


www.military.com
(visit the link for the full news article)

Thanks for bringing this important news to us Proto, unfortunately this isn't what we're seeing on the news, it doesn't fit into the fear mongering that is going on. The very small extreme is getting all the coverage and of course main stream media wants us to think that this is how the majority feels which couldn't be further from the truth.

[edit on 20-8-2010 by Aquarius1]

reply to post by Aquarius1


With the economy still in the duldroms and many Americans concerned about the state of Washington D.C., this is the perfect kind of emotional hot button issue that encourages people to vent and rally around the flag.

It's amazing 4 years after Katrina half the city is still in ruins and a crime ridden ghost town, weeks after the Static Kill of the Oil Well in the Gulf the issue is all but forgotten as millions of Americans are still dealing with and reeling from the economic and ecological impact, unemployment continues to rise, and the nation continues to hemorage jobs, millions of struggling Americans who can't find work, and are out of unemployment benefits are scrambling just to eat, General Motors is about to go public AGAIN to get NEW stockholders to pay the Federal Government back the Bailout Money after defrauding all the OLD stockholders in their bankruptcy and Federal Government take over, and Americans are squabling about a Mosque and Community Center being built like Hitler just invaded Poland after promising Chamberlain he wouldn't!

No wonder the country is so screwed up.

I think Big Pharm needs to come out with a NEW DRUG for a NEW DISEASE called NATIONAL ATTENTION DEFICIT DISSORDER!

A retired general is

simply one voice

one vote


Anyway, the majority has spoken



Majority rule

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
reply to post by Aquarius1

 

I think Big Pharm needs to come out with a NEW DRUG for a NEW DISEASE called NATIONAL ATTENTION DEFICIT DISSORDER!

I never thought I would be a cheerleader for Big Pharma but in this case I am right there, if they could do that in some very small way they would be redeemed in my eyes.

Originally posted by Dock9
A retired general is

simply one voice

one vote


Anyway, the majority has spoken



Majority rule

Yeah just like the Majority ruled on Health Care???

Just like the Majority ruled on the Bail Outs???

Here is where the Majority ruled and it MATTERED the 1st Ammendment to the United States Constitution gauranteeing Americans religious freedom.

Contrary to public belief we do not live in a democracy.

We live in a representative republic.

You get to vote ONLY for a politician who will perhaps then but not likely represent you, in the process of voting democratly for laws introduced by corporate lobbyists!

Now is that fair? It's the system, and rather than railing against a Mosque and a Community Center, you might want to consider doing something productive like helping to fix a broken system.

Life isn't a team sport by the way.

Originally posted by Dock9

Majority rule

Thankfully not ... in this country, the whim of the majority cannot userp the constitutional rights of the minority (noting that it still happens all the time).

Ochlocracy (Greek: οχλοκρατία or okhlokratía; Latin: ochlocratia) or mob rule is government by mob or a mass of people, or the intimidation of constitutional authorities. As a pejorative for majoritarianism, it is akin to the Latin phrase mobile vulgus meaning "the fickle crowd", from which the English term "mob" was originally derived in the 1680s. en.wikipedia.org...

The phrase tyranny of the majority (also: tyranny of the masses), used in discussing systems of democracy and majority rule, is a criticism of the scenario in which decisions made by a majority under that system would place that majority's interests so far above a dissenting individual's interest that the individual would be actively oppressed, just like the oppression by tyrants and despots en.wikipedia.org...

(em)

Either all religions/faiths have the right to build where they wish and in accordance of local zoning laws, or none do.

We as a nation cannot and should not pick and choose who gets to build what according to the religion which is subject of the mass vilification du jour.

[edit on 20 Aug 2010 by schrodingers dog]

Originally posted by Aquarius1

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
reply to post by Aquarius1

 

I think Big Pharm needs to come out with a NEW DRUG for a NEW DISEASE called NATIONAL ATTENTION DEFICIT DISSORDER!

I never thought I would be a cheerleader for Big Pharma but in this case I am right there, if they could do that in some very small way they would be redeemed in my eyes.

The Nation certainly does seem to be suffering from this peculiar new ailment called National Attention Deficit Disorder where the people flitter about to the dancing ball of the big media and politicians landing their attention scantly long enough to forget what it was they were focused on yesterday.

Amazing all the real challenges facing us, people fall into this revolving cycle and haven't figured out yet how it's not really helping them.

I hope what ever pill they come up with makes people more pleasent too.

I thought the Thumper video extolling people "If you can't say something nice don't say nothing at all' was quite telling.

It seems we expect better behavior from our children than we do of our selves!

Thanks my friend.

reply to post by Aquarius1

One of the most ironic thing to me is how this "movement" against the building of the Islamic community center is made up of people who are "against" it for so very many different reasons.

Some may against it out of pure sadness for the 9/11 families, maybe not even realizing that not all the 9/11 families are opposed. Kind-hearted, well-intentioned people, without even realizing what else is going on here, are in many cases finding themselves on the same side of the argument with those who might truly or be bigoted or are doing this for political, opportunist, religions, and other reasons. People they might not normally want to ever be associated with.

In addition, anyone on the fence or simply unaware of the facts almost can't help but be swayed by the intensity of the media disinformation campaigns designed to prey on fears and emotions.



Majority? Depending how you slice this, those truly, truly vehemently opposed versus those who simply wish it was elsewhere (including the ADL) are not in the majority. No matter what the media is telling you.

[edit on 8/20/2010 by ~Lucidity]