Retired General Slams NY 'Mosque' Critics

The people of the book, Islam, Christianity and Judaism, have much more in common than say, Islam would have with a practicing pagan, or an atheist.

Islam is much more strict then Christianity or Judaism is at this time.

This website is based on the works of HARUN YAHYA, a prominent Muslim intellectual of our times.
www.islamdenouncesantisemitism.com...

www.islamdenouncesantisemitism.com...

Myself I thought his take on the subject was very interesting.

This deviant Nazi belief can be seen in many other fascist movements. Many neo-fascist groups today hold pagan beliefs which they consider the 'religion of the Aryan race,' and have a particular hatred of the revealed religions of Christianity, Judaism, and Islam, which they describe as the 'semitic myth.' And because of this distorted logic, fascist groups have grown up in the Islamic world which have tried to develop a new anti-semitism in the shape of "hatred of Arabs".

Whereas divine religions are not addressed solely to the Semitic races, but to everyone in the world, and the salvation of everyone lies in following the common call of these religions and believing in and submitting to God. Fascism, which denies the religion that God has revealed to mankind and reveres the deviant pagan religion of its ancestors, actually consists of a great imprudence. God mentions these imprudent people who turn to the 'religion of their ancestors' in the Qur'an :

When they are told, 'Follow what God has sent down to you,' They say, 'We are following what we found our fathers doing.' What, even though their fathers did not understand a thing and were not guided! (The Qur'an , 2:170)

[edit on 033131p://bSaturday2010 by Stormdancer777]

Originally posted by ImaginaryReality1984

Not all people who support the rights of the Muslims to build this community centre are liberals of course. I am not a liberal for example. I merely uphold the ideals of the constitution, even though i'm not american i understand the merits of the document and how it should be applied in this case.

Amendment 1 - Freedom of Religion, Press, Expression.

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

The Religious rights granted by the constitution to religion is a negative right. A right that congress will not interfere with the establishment or free exercise of religion.

It doesn't give religious bodies or individuals, Muslims included, the right to ride rough shod over everyone else's secular rights.

In the US, nowhere in the Constitution does it say that the right to establish a religion nullifies and supersedes non religious rights.

The constitution merely states that congress has no business prohibiting religious rights. Private citizens rights are neither discussed nor curtailed by the pledge by congress to keep its hands off of religious freedom.

Non religious people have rights too.

Many people mistakenly think that the constitution gives religious people's rights precedence over secular citizens' rights.

It does nothing of the sort. All citizens have equal rights - even the non religious ones.

retracted post ... wrong forefather Thomas.
meanwhile


[edit on 21 Aug 2010 by schrodingers dog]

This whole distraction is just plain foolish. If 9-11 was really an attack on the American People, then we darn well owe those victims, the respect of buying up their killing grounds, using Eminent Domain, and then parceling out whatever building permits we deem correct, to their memory. Didn't the Supreme Court rule that Eminent Domain could be used for redefining private as well as public uses, a few years ago? So what if we lease these grounds to some private business, or other, of our choosing. The U.S. Supreme Court has already ruled on this precise issue. The Royal Saudi House controls Mecca and Medina for the Islamic faithful, in just this way. In either case, it has nothing to do with the freedom or the lack of freedom to practice one's religion. It's just the necessary protection of National Historic battlefields. The fools who are befuddled by this, aren't worth the powder to blow them all to Hellee'. Even the little Greek Orthodox Church of St. Nicholas, which was flattened by the falling Towers, doesn't qualify for any special treatment under Eminent Domain law, as, fortunately, no one in there, perished on 9-11. But with all the charity monies garnered, they should certainly be given the funds to rebuild somewhere, across Manhattan Island. If the local muslims are already supporting over a hundred mosques in NYC, they probably don't have the funds to do this giant project anyway. And as for foreign interlopers, it would be scandalous to give this Cordoba Project, one thin dime, or one square inch of Manhattan Island's, real estate. IMHO.

Originally posted by ollncasino
Non religious people have rights too.

Many people mistakenly think that the constitution gives religious people's rights precedence over secular citizens' rights.

It does nothing of the sort. All citizens have equal rights - even the non religious ones.

Yes i know that, so why are you quoting it at me? In this case the private citizens don't have any recourse, the religious people can build the building and the only way to stop it would be to proclaim that this religion has less rights and so can be interferred with.

Unless there is some state or local law that enables citizens to prevent a building being constructed regardless of who owns the land. Here i must admit my ignorance regarding this states property laws.

Originally posted by name pending
I find your point disingenuous. It would be right time to remind that there were also Muslim victims among the 9/11 victims, how about their feelings?

Oh yeah how many were?

Their family members would get to vote too, on whether or not to build there, obviously.

The project's organizers have said that the center, called Park51, is modeled on Manhattan's 92nd Street Y, a community center open to all New Yorkers. Park51 is also intended to be open to the entire community, though there will be some restrictions based on Muslim traditions.

All PR.

And the "War on Terror" isn't about conquering or oil.

Right.

Oh, wait, what's that? "Restrictions"?

[edit on 21-8-2010 by IgnoranceIsntBlisss]

Originally posted by IgnoranceIsntBlisss
All PR.

And the "War on Terror" isn't about conquering or oil.

Right.

Oh, wait, what's that? "Restrictions"?

Well restrictions could mean absolutely anthing and i hate to speculate but lets use some basic examples.

As this is a Muslim centre (something which you and i appear to agree is stupid, not just because it's Muslim but any ethnic centre causes divison in society), then certain things would need to be taken into account. Like i imagine dogs would be banned from the building. That's not so terrible is it?

Originally posted by ImaginaryReality1984
Do i really have to go through the Bible and quote some of it's more hateful verses? The verses about killing witches, adulterers, where it defends rape, child abuse, slavery and all of the other stuff?

Could you? I would find that interesting.

I haven't even got into adulterers, rape, child abuse, slavery and all of the other stuff in the Koran but I am happy to if you like.

For instance, Muhammed when in his early 50s (late 40s?) had sex with his 9 year old wife.

But still, you are missing the point. The Koran and the passages I have cited are inciting Muslims to carry out Jihad in this life against non-Muslims. Its a religious duty.

Muhammad took this obligation pretty seriously. As did the boys who crashed into the Twin Towers.

By all means go through the Bible and post any passages that instruct followers to wage war on non Christians in this life. You will have to stick to the Old Testament and ignore the fact that Christ abrogated its violence by advocating 'turning the other cheek'.

Still, how many suicide bombers has Islam produced in the last 10 years?

How many suicide bombers has Christianity produced in the last decade?

reply to post by ollncasino


Well, I've seen just about all of the same sorts of disturbing stuff in the Bible... but it might not be in the same quantity. Actually I don't know, I've never seen quantity comparisons between the two, but I've seen the same sort of BLACK&WHITE genocidal hate mongering stuff in each.

Originally posted by ImaginaryReality1984
Unless there is some state or local law that enables citizens to prevent a building being constructed regardless of who owns the land. Here i must admit my ignorance regarding this states property laws.

I don't know NY local building control law either.

Still, the city can stop a house being built or a shop being renovated so the powers are almost certainly there to stop the mosque - all in a perfectly legal manner within the constitution.

reply to post by IgnoranceIsntBlisss

Originally posted by name pending
I find your point disingenuous. It would be right time to remind that there were also Muslim victims among the 9/11 victims, how about their feelings?


Oh yeah how many were?

Their family members would get to vote too, on whether or not to build there, obviously.

I had already posted one Muslims point on the mosque being built, whos mother was killed on 9/11

news.yahoo.com...

By contrast, Neda Bolourchi of Los Angeles, a native of Iran whose mother was on one of the planes that crashed into the World Trade Center, opposes the plan.

"I fear that over time, it will cultivate a fundamentalist version of the Muslim faith, embracing those who share such beliefs and hating those who do not," she wrote in a Washington Post op-ed. "To the supporters of this new Islamic cultural center, I must ask: Build your ideological monument somewhere else, far from my mother's grave, and let her rest."

what about her opinion?

Originally posted by ollncasino

Originally posted by ImaginaryReality1984
Unless there is some state or local law that enables citizens to prevent a building being constructed regardless of who owns the land. Here i must admit my ignorance regarding this states property laws.

I don't know NY local building control law either.

Still, the city can stop a house being built or a shop being renovated so the powers are almost certainly there to stop the mosque - all in a perfectly legal manner within the constitution.

Ahh but under what guidlines are they stopped from building? Many cities can stop construction but there has to be a good reason, like an endangered species being resident, the land being toxic, invasion of privacy etc. Does "i'm not happy these religious people are building something" count?

reply to post by ImaginaryReality1984


It could be Sharia Law. I've heard rhetoric about it but don't know how realistic it is and quite frankly I don't care too much to memorize all the details of this issue. I just felt like ranting about the ethics of the issue earlier.

en.wikipedia.org...

But if so I guess that would mean that women wouldn't be allowed to play shuffleboard there while having PMS.

Originally posted by ollncasino

Originally posted by ImaginaryReality1984
Do i really have to go through the Bible and quote some of it's more hateful verses? The verses about killing witches, adulterers, where it defends rape, child abuse, slavery and all of the other stuff?

Could you? I would find that interesting.

You know i was going to and i realised it would take up a huge part of this thread and be rather off topic, so instead i'll just throw a link at you

www.evilbible.com...

Take your time at that place and view with an unbiased eye. Verse after verse that allows all sorts of terrible behavior.

reply to post by IgnoranceIsntBlisss

But if so I guess that would mean that women wouldn't be allowed to play shuffleboard there while having PMS.

it is odd you mentioned that, but many ancient cultures kept women secluded away from men during this time,

maybe that was a smart move,
lol

Originally posted by ImaginaryReality1984
Ahh but under what guidlines are they stopped from building? Many cities can stop construction but there has to be a good reason, like an endangered species being resident, the land being toxic, invasion of privacy etc. Does "i'm not happy these religious people are building something" count?

I'm sure they could think of something prefectly legal if they wanted to.

reply to post by IgnoranceIsntBlisss


Sharia law does not negate a countries laws. To implement Sharia you would need to change the very constituion and local laws which people rely upon. Sharia law is a terror and something many western Muslims don't support.

so no you couldn't implement Sharia law within the community centre, at least not legally. If you tried then the police would raid the place, arrest everyone involved and they would be in prison for a long time.

Originally posted by ollncasino
I'm sure they could think of something prefectly legal if they wanted to.

If it's legal then what's the problem exactly? You no doubt obey the law and they would be within the law, i'm struggling to see the problem you have with that.

Originally posted by IgnoranceIsntBlisss
But if so I guess that would mean that women wouldn't be allowed to play shuffleboard there while having PMS.

Somewhere in the Bible is a rule about men not being allowed to sit where a menstrating woman has sat. So i guess the religions have some stuff in common huh

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
reply to post by Shark VA84

 

I'm thrilled to see the friendly, mature and truly inquisitive approach you and everyone else seems to be taking in this thread. Though demonized domestically in the media and thus our social circles, Arabic men and women have treated me with hospitality and friendship that rivals any on this planet.

You probably know what it is like to be adopted as and addressed as 'cousin'.

The truth is that once you are accepted as a friend, and friendships are typically here, as well as there based entirely upon mutual respect, Muslims are feircely loyal to their friends.

Does not matter if you are a Muslim or not, it just matters that they see you as a friend, and a friend who respects them. They will take the shirt off their back, give you their last dollar, and traipse along to the gates of hell with you and back if you ask.

They are very gracious hosts and have a fairly strict code regarding manners.

For instance the recent story that made the news of a Special Forces Commander in Iraq 'surrendering himself' to a greiving Muslim father, who had lost his entire family to an American Military action.

The Special Forces Commander had heard that he was considering becoming a suicide bomber, so as local Afghani Custom dictated he showed up to his home, to surrender himself to the man's justice carrying a lamb as a gift, that is part of this custom.

The custom dictates any man who has offended you who appologizes in such a way must be foregiven, and the man foregave the Special Forces Commander and extended foregiveness and changed his mind regarding taking retalitation against U.S. Forces, because he was bound by that custom.

Where was our lamb after 9/11? Did anyone anywhere bother, in behalf of Islam, to offer us a lamb and self to dry our thirst for vengence?