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2nd American Civil War theory

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posted on Aug, 21 2010 @ 06:15 AM
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reply to post by AlreadyGone
 


The people that want a civil war in America again don't actually want to fight in it, that's why they don't go out and do anything, what they really want is to try and egg someone on to do it for them.

See, they don't actually have the guts to go and start a civil war themselves, they never will have the guts to do it, so instead, safe in their homes they come online and plead their case to the internet in the hope that someone who is more susceptible to suggestion, will actually take up arms and start the whole thing, that way they don't actually have to get their hands dirty.

Unfortunately sometimes their rhetoric does get through to a mouth breather and those morons go and do something stupid...

www.mercurynews.com...


Oakland police said Williams told them he did not want to get arrested and was willing to kill officers to escape. Williams also told police, according to a probable cause statement, that he wanted to "start a revolution" by killing leaders of the two advocacy organizations.

Please visit the link provided for the complete story.


I wonder, would internet revolutionaries feel any guilt at all if they knew their words online could set someone off like this? Maybe right now, some idiot is reading this thread and has it in their heads that a civil war is coming and so they "lock and load" and head out to do some damage. Would the authors of these revolution threads feel any remorse whatsoever? Or would they just not see the connection? Or would they be happy that someone got injured or killed in the name of revolution?




posted on Aug, 21 2010 @ 06:29 AM
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I dont care Im in PA our militias and those of Michigan are tightly interwoven, thats all I need to know I'll be living under the flag of the United States of Michivania



posted on Aug, 21 2010 @ 08:14 AM
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These threads kill me.

As if you loads actually would leave your lounge chairs to go get a beer during commercial.

Believe me, you don't have any idea what sits all around you right now, watching you and prepping for the first idiot to poke his head up with a bad intent. This government is full of 9 to 5 clock-punchers, and over the last decade, they've served the whole world to you meats on a silver platter. Now you have to get back in line for things and it's "We want our country back!!!"

Well, there have always been a lot of us watching you and waiting patiently for our chance to do things our way. And we went about it all legally and properly, and if you think you're going to be able to yank things back with these kinds of idiotic threats, then you really haven't been doing your research. There are tens of millions of us that have spent the last number of years in the trenches, and we've been locked and loaded long before you folks ever suspected that there was a problem.

Give the progs a chance to make things better. It's advice that you can take or reject, but believe me, you really don't want to find out how terrible it can get. Someone is going to make a bad mistake if this foolishness keeps up, and if that happens, then nothing will ever be good again for any of you. Seriously. Find a baseball team you can hate. Get in a war with your neighbor. Have an affair with a cocktail waitress. This is extremely dangerous stuff, and it's been building since the Iraq invasion.

Don't screw yourselves.



posted on Aug, 21 2010 @ 10:46 AM
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In the last presidential election there were 8 different candidates running and on the ballot here in Michigan, not just the GOP and Democrats. But you don't want to hear about those people. Why? Because it's a solution. Yes it's a solution that doesn't involve you deciding to start blowing away your fellow Americans.


More wild false accusations and irrational behavior. Manipulating people's words into your own emotional fabricated argument.



Poor Me: They passed health care reform and I was against it, so I will assume that everyone else is against it too and that's my justification for starting a revolution.


There you go again. I never said EVERYONE was against it. 80% is not everyone. But I think it made my point clear. You're the type that spins peoples words to best fit you're argument and then insults them to try to belittle them into submission.


Poor Me: They gave banks huge bailouts (that the banks actually are paying back by the way) so I am justified in wanting to destroy the United States through a civil war.


Again with lies and provocation. (sigh)
No one said anything about wanting to destroy the US. Just correct wrongs that need to be right. And the American people are angry and violence MAY result.

Secondly, its irrelevant to my point that the banks are paying back the bail outs. They never should have been authorized. These banks, such as Goldman Sachs, had insurance to protect them against bad or failed assets. Instead of cutting their losses and make claims to these insurances to avoid financial loss, they had the American people pay for these losses. In which they have ADMITTED a lot of these funds went overseas to FOREIGN banks!! How does that serve American interests?


You have decided there is no other option, and I doubt that you will listen to any other option, so there is no real point in trying to debate with you over the fact that you do have other options. (have I said Options enough? No? OPTIONS!)


No there is always a peaceful option. Whether it produces results or not is the question. I would hope many Americans would try to exhaust every peaceful means possible to influence American politics but I am not sure, as many here have agreed, that the American people have that much patience.


I love how you completely ignored the Article V solution I offered, I wonder why? Could it be, that you really don't want to see any solution to the problems facing this country but instead want to paint yourself in a corner and blame someone else for your ignorance?


Yes yes. I know of the Article V. The convention to propose amendments. That'll never happen because for one, you have "career" judges on the supreme court who "interpret" the constitution who in which are appointed for life. They "interpret" (or what i like to call "selectively ignore")parts of the constitution. And THAT is why your Article V is not an option.

You are one naive fellow and have much troll like symptoms. For one I love how you come into this thread bashing everyone who agrees civil war or violence may break out with current trends. Then you categorize these people into extremists, provocateurs, and blood thirsty neanderthals who want nothing but carnage.

However you seem to be the only one trying to provoke people into admitting or stating they claimed to encourage violence and wish to cause destruction to society. Do you work for the Pentagon cybersecurity? Because it seems you're quick to label even when myself and others have EXPLICITLY explained there is no ulterior motive.

The only subject people here are trying to discuss is to not "justify" violence and civil war, but to make a point the American people have good cause to be angry. nothing more. You are the provocateur, sh!t stirrer, troll. Or maybe perhaps you need to take up some reading comprehension classes because most of the people here could stick to the original topic...

[edit on 21-8-2010 by AzoriaCorp]



posted on Aug, 21 2010 @ 11:23 AM
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reply to post by AzoriaCorp
 


Your OP was:


I speculate that a second American revolution will not take place. I believe that a 2nd American civil war is very possible and may be imminent. I speculate that it will be the midwestern central states (anti Fed) against the East and West coastal states(Pro Fed) based off of their current political affiliations and policies. My question is which states will be on which side? Who and why?


You believe that a 2nd Civil War is very possible and may be imminent, odd for someone who is claiming to not be wanting such a thing, then you go on as far as to pick out the battle lines. Hmm, sounds to me like someone who actually advocates such an event taking place.

You even go so far as to generalize everyone into these groups who is pro fed and who is anti fed based solely on their geography and for some reason think that if the central US stopped paying taxes that it would incite war.

Sounds to me like not only do you not want to see a peaceful solution, you want to make sure that a non peaceful solution comes about.

Have you taken a poll of the people in your "anti fed" states and asked them if they wanted to start a civil war? Doesn't sound to me like you have, sounds to me like you are putting words into a lot of people's mouths and speculating on their wishes. Which doesn't bode well for your newly adopted pacifist stance in your debating with me.

In my opinion it's absolutely fine to be angry with the federal government, it's perfectly acceptable, but when you continuously and blatantly ignore or reject any ideas for a non violent solution it makes your position quite clear even without you saying so.

Of course I do love it when a member thinks because I disagree with them that I am some sort of government plant or some other idiocy, sorry but I just don't buy into what your selling. It's an amazing thing that I can have an opinion of my own and don't have to agree with you, especially when you are so wrong.

I don't believe that a civil war is imminent, I do believe that there are people that wish it was, they wish it so hard that they imagine every way possible to make it happen. I believe that there are people who purposely want to make it happen, but they don't want to actually go do it, they want to incite others to do it for them, so they come to sites like this, make posts like yours, and get offended when someone like me calls them on it.

The proof is in the various solutions I have given you already that you have rejected outright, you reject them because you don't want them to work, you don't even want to think of the possibility of this country going forward and bettering itself without bloodshed. That means that you and people like you won't get the chance to see people die, well, there is a solution for your blood lust too, maybe you can join the military and ask to go over to Afghanistan and slate your blood lust.

Again, no I don't believe this country is on the brink of a Civil War, I believe that some people do wish it was, I believe these same people want to antagonize others into doing their dirty work for them, I believe that the people that do this are the true agent provocateurs, but they aren't government plants, they are just bored children who have played way too many violent video games and have lost sight of reality.

[edit on 8/21/2010 by whatukno]



posted on Aug, 21 2010 @ 11:42 AM
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I've said it before in other posts, and I'll say it here...again.

I believe that it will be some random, unfortunate series of events that are unforeseen that might spark a Civil War...aka V is for Vendetta.

Last month there was a stand off between nevada Sheriff SWAT team and Fed FBI and FDA agents...what would have happened if someone had shot?

Or what happens when the FDA and Fed agents raid the wrong farm for selling raw milk and get fired upon..? maybe a 10 year old child...innocent is killed. Local farmers arm theirselves and another raid follows...bungled this time and more deaths...locally, vandalism on Fed buildings rises, ambusheson Fed employees and buildings and parking lots...local martial law is imposed...suddenly, guns are rounded up...agents shot and killed...local seiges happen ..dozens at a time...NG is mobilized. Suspects are rounded up, some aren't found...armed citizens confront Army troops...someone fires...aka Boston massacre.

News goes national....suddenly, via internet..YouTube footage is viral

Raids on NG Posts occur...arms stolen... NG troops captured.

What if?



posted on Aug, 21 2010 @ 01:03 PM
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Originally posted by AzoriaCorp

Originally posted by whatukno
I believe there are people that desperately want a war in the United States to the point they will justify it with any reason they can make up.

Again you have to seriously question the motives of people who think that shooting other Americans is a good idea. To me it doesn't sound like a good idea at all, frankly it sounds counterproductive to freedom and liberty.

Basically these people are telling you that it's their version of freedom or you die. Well that sounds more like tyranny to me than liberty.

Just my opinion.

"Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent." - Issac Asimov


Well for one I almost cant take your statement seriously as your avatar is laughable. Being a clip of the show "House" which is becoming a large part of main stream TV Americana. Which to me, and a lot of Americans, is as much nonsense as Jersey Shore and American Idol. So its quite difficult to see your perspective here.

Also, based off your initial stance on violence by lumping it all into one category, that being a bad and unacceptable category, I will assume you're a pacifist. Meaning you believe violence never solves anything, yadda yadda, yadda, the only way to peace is peace itself and all that nonsense other pacifists preach. Well your wrong. Sometimes in many cases, violence IS the only answer. Even Jesus himself condoned owning weapons for defense and for justice.

He said to them, "But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one. (Luke 22:36)

I myself, believe that violence must be avoided at all costs to avoid bloodshed and catastrophe BUT when a diplomatic democratic process fails, what then? Just keep begging for a change? Well I'll tell you what, many Americans have just about exhausted all their political resources and processes they have. The historic Health care law that was recently passed was a HUGE failure in American political justice. People attended town hall meetings, sent letters, emails, phone calls, and more. 80% of the American people were ignored and tyranny prevailed. So what then? Or just try it your way? Just try and try again?

Well here's a quote for you my pacifistic friend.

“Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.” -Albert Einstein

By the way Isaac is spelled I S A A C. So make sure you get your spelling correct when you speak of incompetence again.

Plus Isaac was born of Soviet Socialistic Russia. I highly doubt most Americans could really care a less of what a Socialistic Russian born science fiction writer has to say about American values and politics.


The man whom is so insulted by us getting off topic starts railing against the good doctor House, television entertainment in general, health care reform, pacifism, spelling, and the birth place of post-modern philosophers/science fiction authors.

Seriously mate? You're starting to sound a lot more like a pompous hack than the "visionary" you claimed yourself to be. I hardly think anything move of value will come from this thread, I'm done with it.

Whatyouknow: Love the new profile pic mate! Remember, it's never Lupus!



posted on Aug, 21 2010 @ 05:15 PM
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Originally posted by AlreadyGone
I've said it before in other posts, and I'll say it here...again.

I believe that it will be some random, unfortunate series of events that are unforeseen that might spark a Civil War...aka V is for Vendetta.

Last month there was a stand off between nevada Sheriff SWAT team and Fed FBI and FDA agents...what would have happened if someone had shot?

Or what happens when the FDA and Fed agents raid the wrong farm for selling raw milk and get fired upon..? maybe a 10 year old child...innocent is killed. Local farmers arm theirselves and another raid follows...bungled this time and more deaths...locally, vandalism on Fed buildings rises, ambusheson Fed employees and buildings and parking lots...local martial law is imposed...suddenly, guns are rounded up...agents shot and killed...local seiges happen ..dozens at a time...NG is mobilized. Suspects are rounded up, some aren't found...armed citizens confront Army troops...someone fires...aka Boston massacre.

News goes national....suddenly, via internet..YouTube footage is viral

Raids on NG Posts occur...arms stolen... NG troops captured.

What if?


This is more or less what I was trying to say. But others just complicate it and turn it into a d!ck measuring contest and love to categorize/label people. Then manipulate others words to demonize anyone with an opinion on reality that may not be in line with theirs.



posted on Aug, 21 2010 @ 05:33 PM
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You believe that a 2nd Civil War is very possible and may be imminent, odd for someone who is claiming to not be wanting such a thing, then you go on as far as to pick out the battle lines. Hmm, sounds to me like someone who actually advocates such an event taking place.


wow you are thick headed. i don't know how else to drill this into you. "sounds" like a heap of misguided misinterpreted manipulated accusations that you conjured up yourself. Just because I believe violence is a likely scenario for the anger and fear many have for the fed, whether its true or not, DOESNT mean I condone the violence that may occur, you manipulative fool.


You even go so far as to generalize everyone into these groups who is pro fed and who is anti fed based solely on their geography and for some reason think that if the central US stopped paying taxes that it would incite war.


Its a theory, meaning its speculative. also meaning it isnt necessarily going to be correct. How else can I define this for you??? Is the arrogance of your ego constricting the blood flow to that big head of yours?


Sounds to me like not only do you not want to see a peaceful solution, you want to make sure that a non peaceful solution comes about.


More lies, baseless opinion, irrational thought. I am beginning to wonder if you even read my posts...


Have you taken a poll of the people in your "anti fed" states and asked them if they wanted to start a civil war? Doesn't sound to me like you have, sounds to me like you are putting words into a lot of people's mouths and speculating on their wishes. Which doesn't bode well for your newly adopted pacifist stance in your debating with me.


Reread your own posts and you'll realize who's putting words in who's mouth.


In my opinion it's absolutely fine to be angry with the federal government, it's perfectly acceptable


Doesn't seem like it. You've been arguing it this entire time.


but when you continuously and blatantly ignore or reject any ideas for a non violent solution it makes your position quite clear even without you saying so.


thanks for speaking for me. I am glad you're so confident to do so.

refer to your above quote you hypocrite.


you are putting words into a lot of people's mouths




Of course I do love it when a member thinks because I disagree with them that I am some sort of government plant or some other idiocy, sorry but I just don't buy into what your selling. It's an amazing thing that I can have an opinion of my own and don't have to agree with you, especially when you are so wrong.


I never said you couldn't disagree and that i wouldn't respect it. However I don't appreciate the outlandish accusations you have made with your disagreements. Notice, others DID disagree with my theory and i respected them. Because they stuck with the discussion and didn't make irrational and ludicrous accusations about my intentions.



The proof is in the various solutions I have given you already that you have rejected outright, you reject them because you don't want them to work, you don't even want to think of the possibility of this country going forward and bettering itself without bloodshed. That means that you and people like you won't get the chance to see people die, well, there is a solution for your blood lust too, maybe you can join the military and ask to go over to Afghanistan and slate your blood lust.


(sigh) more of your empty accusations with a dash of self righteousness.





[edit on 21-8-2010 by AzoriaCorp]



posted on Aug, 21 2010 @ 08:39 PM
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What is needed is a civil war executed civilly. State nullification is the best method, but it will take governors and state legislatures with some intestinal fortitude to initiate and see it through.

My fear is that there really isn't that level of strength in state leadership. As an example, the EPA or Corp of Engineers prevented or hindered Louisiana from building the protective berms. Why didn't Bobby Jindal just tell them to stuff it and build them anyway? What were the Feds going to do, arrest him? Jan Brewer of AZ, should ignore the Fed judge, who doesn't know the constitution from Das Kapital and inforce the law as written.

All we need is one leader with some guts to get this rolling and I believe 22 to 30 states will form a united front to begin the process of shifting power back to the states where it is supposed to be.



posted on Aug, 22 2010 @ 01:02 AM
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Originally posted by Jazzyguy

Originally posted by AzoriaCorp
I am merely SPECULATING the facts, the trends, and the general American public's perception of the Federal government in which its policies have undermined the American people's interests.


That's what I thought at first what the trend will be, but I realize that Sestias is indeed right.. in the last instance americans will not accept a civil war, they will go another route.


There were riots in LA over Rodney King getting beat up.

What happens if a much more respected man is killed ?

Some bad event will kick it off, and then good luck getting
the Genie back in the bottle.

In regards to a 2nd civil war in the US it is being arranged by internal
and external forces.

Why fight the US when you can have the US fight itself ?

A Russian scientist already made this prediction.

A former KGB agent got on US TV and tried to warn the ppl of
the US about it, and most don't even know about it, Yuri Bezmenov.

The ppl are buying guns by the millions, and ammo by the billions.

If it can happen once it can happen twice.

The odds of it happening I do not know, but consider all it takes
is less than 1% to start shooting and then you get other ppl
shooting back in defense and the next thing you know you got
yourself a war.

1% of 300 million is 3 million ppl and that is bigger than the
US standing armed forces.

That is why my plan is to get the hell out of dodge when it all goes bonkers.

Good Luck to all the good ppl !



[edit on 22-8-2010 by Ex_MislTech]



posted on Aug, 22 2010 @ 01:33 AM
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Originally posted by NewlyAwakened
reply to post by AzoriaCorp
 


And truth be told, it sure beats general economic collapse followed by autocratic rule and involving genocide when the rulers realize they can't feed everybody (if they even care).



I think the real rulers have made their intentions painfully clear.

www.radioliberty.com...


1. Maintain humanity under 500,000,000 in perpetual balance with nature.
2. Guide reproduction wisely - improving fitness and diversity.
3. Unite humanity with a living new language.
4. Rule passion - faith - tradition - and all things with tempered reason.
5. Protect people and nations with fair laws and just courts.
6. Let all nations rule internally resolving external disputes in a world court.
7. Avoid petty laws and useless officials.
8. Balance personal rights with social duties.
9. Prize truth - beauty - love - seeking harmony with the infinite.
10.Be not a cancer on the earth - Leave room for nature - Leave room for nature.


Some of the 10 make sense, but some are WAY off base.

For those who say it is a one off, I'd have you check out Eco-science
the book by our current Neo-Malthusian Science Czar.

zombietime.com...

You could also look into a speech given by professor Pianka at UT.

en.wikipedia.org...


Mims states in the Society for Amateur Scientists Ezine The Citizen Scientist that Pianka had "endorsed the elimination of 90 percent of the human population" through a disease such as an airborne strain of the Ebola virus.


Also the book that was paid to be written by the Club of Rome
called Limits to Growth is one of their reference documents.

It is like writing a book and using it as a reference for proof
of a scientific argument.



[edit on 22-8-2010 by Ex_MislTech]



posted on Aug, 22 2010 @ 05:53 AM
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Originally posted by Ex_MislTech
There were riots in LA over Rodney King getting beat up.

What happens if a much more respected man is killed ?

Riots and civil war are completely two different thing. A civil war is massive, the consequence is very severe. If that happens, you can kiss your standard of living goodbye.



posted on Aug, 22 2010 @ 02:19 PM
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Originally posted by justacitizen
What is needed is a civil war executed civilly. State nullification is the best method, but it will take governors and state legislatures with some intestinal fortitude to initiate and see it through.

My fear is that there really isn't that level of strength in state leadership. As an example, the EPA or Corp of Engineers prevented or hindered Louisiana from building the protective berms. Why didn't Bobby Jindal just tell them to stuff it and build them anyway? What were the Feds going to do, arrest him? Jan Brewer of AZ, should ignore the Fed judge, who doesn't know the constitution from Das Kapital and inforce the law as written.

All we need is one leader with some guts to get this rolling and I believe 22 to 30 states will form a united front to begin the process of shifting power back to the states where it is supposed to be.


This is exactly what i thought. Why dont states governments, if they really do truly disagree with the Fed and are unhappy with the performance, just ignore the fed's decisions/authority?

What are they going to do? arrest entire state governments? These questions alone really make me wonder if the state govs really are working for the people or its just another rerun of wrestlemania.



posted on Aug, 22 2010 @ 02:40 PM
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Originally posted by Jazzyguy

Originally posted by Ex_MislTech
There were riots in LA over Rodney King getting beat up.

What happens if a much more respected man is killed ?

Riots and civil war are completely two different thing. A civil war is massive, the consequence is very severe. If that happens, you can kiss your standard of living goodbye.


I think you need to read up on how the French Revolution started.

After you do that yo will see that large scale nationwide riots can
turn into a civil war.



posted on Aug, 22 2010 @ 10:28 PM
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reply to post by Ex_MislTech
 

Riots don't cause a civil war. Riots are chaotic, it has no leadership. What causes a civil war is a rebellion, a revolt. That of course will cause riots, you got it backward.

Besides the French revolution is not a full blown civil war like the US or English or Chinese civil war. That is why it is called the french revolution rather than the french civil war.



posted on Aug, 22 2010 @ 10:59 PM
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I believe eventually this country will fragment, but it will be nothing similar to the first Civil War. Economic destabilization would be the only thing that could bring this about, and by that point and time, state lines would be a moot point. Federal gov't would in effect be powerless, decentralization would occur, and geographical regions would split off and band together.

As if who fought who in the 1860's would have anything to do with it.




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