The American People have become Dishonorable & Unworthy

Originally posted by Hefficide

Originally posted by aching_knuckles

Originally posted by Hefficide

I think that your opinion fails to acknowledge the anti-American biases which permeate large sections of the world as well.

Are those nations any better about respecting the status of others?

Bias against a specific group of people is a horrible thing but it is only a symptom of the present and it will pass. Cultural biases always do.

Two wrongs dont make a right, in America we are supposed to be better than our enemies. At least, thats what they tell us.

You are using the same flawed argument as "The terrorists chop off heads, well we should start doing it too! That'll teach em!" Be better.

With all due respect here, I think you misunderstand the context or tone of what I said. I by NO means suggested that hate is correct.

What I meant was that you cannot call out the US for being anti Islamic without also calling out those Islamic entities which are anti American.

If two parties fight you cannot single out one and expect to resolve anything.

I think you misunderstand me. We are supposed to be better. They hate us? Throw flowers at them.

I am not a Christian, but did not Jesus say "Turn the other cheek"?

As the very term suggests, "calling out" anyone is a confrontational tactic meant to turn to violence.

[edit on 19-8-2010 by aching_knuckles]

Maybe much of it is media distortion.

But i think if it is not put in check by a lot of citizens raising hell with & objecting to it,

it tends to gain social acquiescence & implies acceptability.

I think that Americans need to stand up,
let media know they support the constitution along with its minor imperfections,
& they are not all meat puppet rabid reactionary dogs.

All that's needed for evil to triumph is for good people to stand aside & do nothing.

If you love life, America & decency, please, at least say something.

Originally posted by slank
Americans have become a dishonorable, unworthy people.

That’s a bigoted statement. There are both honorable and dishonorable Americans

Originally posted by slank
A people who through accident of history

America was no accident…. Many historical events were not accidental

Originally posted by slank
Granted they are being puppeted by scurrilous, unspeakable elements

What “elements” are you talking about…. Who are they… ?

Originally posted by slank
The fact that they would forget that Muslims…. You are unworthy of the quite amazing US constitution, You are untrustworthy in all terms of honor, intent, logic & even simple bean counting.

So all Americans hate Muslims and you hate all Americans….

Muslims exhibit more common sense towards Americans than you




[edit on 19-8-2010 by soleprobe]

I pray the genuine prayer of an atheist, that you prove me wrong.

I have serious fears that i am not.

reply to post by Hefficide


But really, does that matter, whether other countries are racist? I think to take that line of thought is to miss the point. If I am a murderer, can I abdicate responsibility for that by pointing to another murderer and saying 'He is also a murderer, so don't you criticise me'?

The question, surely, is whether there is any truth in what the OP says, irrespective of what may be the case in other parts of the world.

To justify ones own shortcomings by pointing out those of others is a dangerous slope, for it skirts the issues of personal reflection, self-critique and self-correction and takes us on the downard spiral towards the lowest common denominator....does that sound familiar?

There are countries where women are buried alive up to their shoulders, then stoned to death for adultery - to pursue the same logic would make it equally ok for that to occur in the US. Others do it, so that justifies us doing it too.

I don't think so.












[edit on 19-8-2010 by wcitizen]

[edit on 19-8-2010 by wcitizen]

reply to post by wcitizen


Again, my point is not justification of any behavior on behalf of any side of an issue.

My point is that if two parties disagree you cannot find resolution by only addressing one of those parties.

But we can play the word dissection game forever - it just gets us off topic and serves no other real purpose.

[edit on 8/19/10 by Hefficide]

reply to post by soleprobe



Quote:

Muslims exhibit more common sense towards Americans than you

Unquote:

Surely that contradicts your arguments in that it is a gross over-generalisaton and, dare I say it, also bigoted.

Our first president predicted this in his retirement speech from office.

The alternate domination of one faction over another, sharpened by the spirit of revenge, natural to party dissension, which in different ages and countries has perpetrated the most horrid enormities, is itself a frightful despotism. But this leads at length to a more formal and permanent despotism. The disorders and miseries which result gradually incline the minds of men to seek security and repose in the absolute power of an individual; and sooner or later the chief of some prevailing faction, more able or more fortunate than his competitors, turns this disposition to the purposes of his own elevation, on the ruins of public liberty.

How is that not exactly what is happening? Our system has failed and no one brings things like this up. It's no longer taught in schools....hell they don't make to many historical movies, as they might wake this sleeping population.

[edit on 8/19/2010 by LordBaskettIV]

reply to post by Hefficide


I have to disagree. The OP seems to be making points specifically about American people and how he/she believes they have allowed a wonderful opportunity and great benefits to be trashed, and they have lost the values which created that great opportunity in the first place, and also which protected it.

(OP - I'm paraphrasing here, hope I'm not getting it too wrong!)

So, the way I see it, that has nothing at all to do with what any other country does...it is an invitation for self-reflection and self-evaluation. There are not 'two sides' involved, he is talking about what Americans have allowed to happen in America.

Perhaps you think that there is nothing wrong with America. If that's the case, so be it.

Personally, that's not my belief, and I think it impinges on every single person to recognise the dire straights the country is now in and ask oneself how this was allowed to happen.

There is not some abstract, collective US population which has allowed these things to happen, a population is a collective of individuals and each one is a responsible part of the whole.

It seems to me there are incredibly important questions for each one to look at.

What I heard in the OP was a cry from the heart, a rallying call for people to examine the values and practices which now seem to prevail overall, and which facilitated the dire situation which now exists - which IMO is a significant step towards solving this terrible and terrifying mess.

If our world is to change for the better, I believe it will only happen if each individual asks themselves these kind of difficult questions, takes responsibility and makes the personal changes they deem necessary to create something better.

I personally passionately believe that the solution, if there is to be one, is not going to be done for us or to us by some external 'authority'. It is something we have to create, because the problem is not a political one but a moral one, or ethical one.

To repeat a well known saying:

"All it takes for evil to triumph is that good people do nothing."


I remember hearing Simone Weil interviewed about the rise of Naziism in per-war Germany, and she was asked how it could have been allowed to happen.

Her reply was: It happened drip by drip. People let one thing go, then another, then another, and in the end, before they realised it, the bucket was full. Then she quoted the above saying.

The OP is not hating or baiting, he/she is challenging people to think and ask vital questions, and to see the incredible value of the things they are currently losing at a terrifying speed.

reply to post by slank


Americans are a very great people. This country is one of the best in the world. Our consitution and bill of rights are the fairest of documents that outline how a country that focuses on freedom should carry itself.

Unfortunately there are people and organizations trying to take control of this government that do not agree with the founding fathers values. One such group is the Cordoba Project. This article that I found shows many details of how the imam sides with Radical Muslims. I am sure as time goes on more and more information will begin to appear as to how the Cordoba Project and many other radical muslim groups have alterior motives and are working towards bringing Sharia Law to the U.S.

We as Freedom loving Americans must always stay vigilante and never bow to those that want to take away our freedom.

The very name Cordoba Project clearly alludes to the intentions of this organization. Please read up people on what happened in Cordoba Spain and prevent that from happening in our beautiful America.

Cordoba Project exposed

[edit on 19-8-2010 by Staben]

Originally posted by wcitizen
reply to post by soleprobe

 

Quote:

Muslims exhibit more common sense towards Americans than you

Unquote:

Surely that contradicts your arguments in that it is a gross over-generalisaton and, dare I say it, also bigoted.

Not all Muslims hate all Americans... it's not an over generalization.... it's common sense ... and towards what group am I bigoted?

Originally posted by aching_knuckles

Originally posted by Hefficide

Originally posted by aching_knuckles

Originally posted by Hefficide

I think that your opinion fails to acknowledge the anti-American biases which permeate large sections of the world as well.

Are those nations any better about respecting the status of others?

Bias against a specific group of people is a horrible thing but it is only a symptom of the present and it will pass. Cultural biases always do.

Two wrongs dont make a right, in America we are supposed to be better than our enemies. At least, thats what they tell us.

You are using the same flawed argument as "The terrorists chop off heads, well we should start doing it too! That'll teach em!" Be better.

With all due respect here, I think you misunderstand the context or tone of what I said. I by NO means suggested that hate is correct.

What I meant was that you cannot call out the US for being anti Islamic without also calling out those Islamic entities which are anti American.

If two parties fight you cannot single out one and expect to resolve anything.

I think you misunderstand me. We are supposed to be better. They hate us? Throw flowers at them.

I am not a Christian, but did not Jesus say "Turn the other cheek"?

As the very term suggests, "calling out" anyone is a confrontational tactic meant to turn to violence.

[edit on 19-8-2010 by aching_knuckles]

Remember when the Pharisees were deceiving the worshipers by selling maimed animals? Jesus over turned the tables and stopped the deceivers, he preached about it and shined a light on exactly what they were doing. He never acted as if it was not going on, he never ignored the deceitfulness of the pharisees.

Never fall asleep, and always stand up for equal justice for all. Intent of heart is very important.

Oh what a surprise, another America Bashing thread.

I am American I am trustworthy and I am honorable.

Most of the Americans I know are too.

Was there a point to the thread? And any proof? Specifically, names and offences of the said Americans who are dishonorable and untrustworthy? Every country has its clowns, US no different. But certainly no worse.

[edit on 19-8-2010 by hotbakedtater]

reply to post by slank


It's a test of character. I hope we pass. Just give us some time to work it out. Also, the US is not alone in their behavior. I don't know where you're from, but...a lot of countries have some work to do. Peace.

reply to post by slank


I have to disagree with you. The American people are quite honorable and certainly worthy of our existence as it is. You sound like a very bitter person. Your post read like a jilted lover's insane rant...

Your trollish attempt at baiting Americans will certainly work, but you earn no points and no merit. You have only achieved in presenting yourself as childishly indignant.

Your words are but a stain on the ATS message boards...

Cheers.

I see a lot of Americans claiming that they are "trustworthy" or honourable".

It's a shame that none of that matters.

It doesn't matter what your intentions are, or if you think what you do is good and just.

What matters to the vast majority of the world is how your government ACTS.

It's one of the greatest tragedies of modern times, people, under the belief of freedom and just rights and noble causes, ALLOWING their government to run rampant around the world.

You, as Americans, may not see it as bad, you may not even know that it happens, but to an outsider it's blatantly clear.

I have the good fortune of living close enough to meet Americans myself, so I know that the majority are good people. For many, your government, and the atrocities they commit, are the only form of America that they will ever know.

And after decades of having "Americanism" shoved down your throat by the barrel of a gun, you wouldn't think too highly of the US either.

reply to post by slank


Hi slank-

Please remember not all Americans are the same and the things you said are very negative statements directed at all americans.

I agree there are many problems in the United States but to say all Americans are the same is not true.

reply to post by slank


All Americans.

You must judge each and every soul as you meet and talk with them vs lumping a group of people together.

You do not know me.

You do not know my experiences nor my life history.

Making a general hateful statement like you did shows you to be small minded.

I do not judge a person by their skin color, religion, gender, sexual preference, looks or weight.

I do judge a person by whether or not they are kind, gentle and service to others vs cruel, agressive, and service to self.

fyi: We are all drops of water and "god' is the ocean.

If you hate or harm another you hate and harm yourself.

We are that interconnected. Most people that are trapped in this 3 dimensional "reality" just don't see the big picture.

One soul, one consciousness that splintered in order to experience multiple 3d physical realities.

Most have forgotten the source from whence they came from.

But we all carry that ache, that longing to return.

Love is the answer, everything else is an illusion.

[edit on 19-8-2010 by ofhumandescent]

reply to post by Staben


How about taking away the freedoms of other peoples to run their own country and their lives without US interference? America's foreign policy and iron will to control everywhere is also part of the picture.