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TIME Poll: Majority Oppose Mosque, Many Distrust Muslims

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posted on Aug, 19 2010 @ 04:51 PM
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reply to post by centurion1211
 


From your source:



In a new question, the latest poll found that many New Yorkers believe the project is protected by the Constitution, even if they oppose the plan.

Nearly two-thirds of voters, 64 percent, say the developers have a constitutional right to build the mosque. Twenty-eight percent say they do not.


So, people don't approve, but agree that they have the Constitutional right.

centurion1211, do YOU think they have the Constitutional right?




posted on Aug, 19 2010 @ 04:56 PM
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So just move the damn thing further away. NYC is a big city and everyone has to play nice together in their sandbox. Just put it someplace that would be more sensitive to the fact that ground zero is just around the corner.

I'm sure those who live in Mecca wouldn't want a Catholic Cultural center built near that meteor that they worship there. I'm sure that Jews wouldn't want a Christian Church put next to the Nazi concentration camps where so many Jews (and Catholics and crippled and sick) were murdered. People in THIS country are told to be sensitive to others all the time ... no manger scenes in the town square at Christmas because the athiests would be upset; no 'christmas' break at school and no 'christmas' trees at school or in gov't buildings. It's all 'holiday' break and 'holiday' trees. etc etc

Geeeeze .. it's not that hard to figure out. Kindergarden rules. Just be sensitive and understanding and move the thing to another part of town. They'd get their 'culture center' and the New Yorkers who don't want it at ground zero would be happy too. Win/Win.



posted on Aug, 19 2010 @ 11:04 PM
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Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
reply to post by centurion1211
 


From your source:



In a new question, the latest poll found that many New Yorkers believe the project is protected by the Constitution, even if they oppose the plan.

Nearly two-thirds of voters, 64 percent, say the developers have a constitutional right to build the mosque. Twenty-eight percent say they do not.


So, people don't approve, but agree that they have the Constitutional right.

centurion1211, do YOU think they have the Constitutional right?


The Phelps clan at the Westboro Baptist Church has the constitutional right to picket and protest a military funeral with their crap. That doesn't make it a good idea as it's totally insensitive to those attending the funeral. Kind of like the Mosque near ground zero.



posted on Aug, 19 2010 @ 11:08 PM
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Yep...like it or not...a large majority of Americans are ignorant and bigots.

I kind of like freedom...freedom of religion and stuff like that...I also like diversity and tolerance...no...acceptance of those that different than me.

But hey...it takes all kinds.



posted on Aug, 19 2010 @ 11:12 PM
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reply to post by FlyersFan
 



So just move the damn thing further away. NYC is a big city and everyone has to play nice together in their sandbox. Just put it someplace that would be more sensitive to the fact that ground zero is just around the corner.


Ok...how big are we going to make this anti-Muslim zone? 2 blocks? 5 blocks? Maybe 20 blocks? Maybe anywhere in NYC is too close...heck...New York State??? Talk about eroding the freedoms of this country...I'd be willing to bet those that oppose this "mosque" (read Muslim Community Center) are also crying about Obama destroying the constitution....right??

I'm sure all of you hate free speech zones...right? But you are fine with having an anti-muslim zone?


And save the crap about Mecca...unless you are admitting that it is that type of rule that you look up to as an example.

I prefer that America stay the example of Religious Freedom for ALL FAITHS...not just go the route of "well they don't do it so why should we".

I guess you just have to decide if you want America to be a place of Freedom...or a place of anti-religion fanaticism.

[edit on 19-8-2010 by OutKast Searcher]



posted on Aug, 19 2010 @ 11:13 PM
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reply to post by FlyersFan
 



I'm sure those who live in Mecca wouldn't want a Catholic Cultural center built near that meteor that they worship there.

I'm sure that Jews wouldn't want a Christian Church put next to the Nazi concentration camps where so many Jews (and Catholics and crippled and sick) were murdered.

People in THIS country are told to be sensitive to others all the time ... no manger scenes in the town square at Christmas because the athiests would be upset;

no 'christmas' break at school and

no 'christmas' trees at school or in gov't buildings. It's all 'holiday' break and 'holiday' trees. etc etc




Exactly !



Flyers --- you deserve some kind of medal for that



And unlike MANY --- you're not being paid to post

You're not sucking up for the Saudi dollar


Hat's off to you for telling it as it is





.

[edit on 19-8-2010 by Dock9]



posted on Aug, 20 2010 @ 07:29 AM
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Originally posted by OutKast Searcher
Ok...how big are we going to make this anti-Muslim zone?

Having the Muslims voluntarily ... and with sensitivity to the issues ... move their 'cultural center' to another site isn't making anything an 'anti-Muslim zone'. It would just be them being a good neighbor and being sensitive to the fact that many people were murdered and the emotions are still very raw.

If the Muslims were really trying to get along with their fellow New Yorkers, they wouldn't have the opening date set for SEPTEMBER 11, 2011. The ten year anniversary of 9/11. That's very insensitive as well.


And save the crap about Mecca...

Not a chance. Read it and weep.
In Mecca it would be a rule of law not to have a Christian center.
In NYC the muslims can have their culture center, but the citizens are asking them to be sensitve and put it elsewhere. BIG DIFFERENCE.


I prefer that America stay the example of Religious Freedom for ALL FAITHS...

Excellent. Then you don't mind public schools using your tax money for CHRISTMAS trees, and calling them CHRISTMAS trees? You don't mind the town halls across this country putting up manger scenes using your tax money to support it?? Afterall .. if the majority of the people are Christian and they vote it in, then you just have to put up with it as an example of democracy in action and religious freedom, right?


I guess you just have to decide if you want America to be a place of Freedom...or a place of anti-religion fanaticism.

Asking the muslims to please move their 'culture center' to another location, and perhaps NOT to open it on the exact 10 year anniversary of 9/11 isn't 'anti-religious fanaticism'. It's just neighbors asking neighbors to be sensitive. (and they shouldn't have to ask .. it should be a given).

Examples of anti-religious fanaticism ... Islamic countries that won't allow bibles or rosary beads brought in by tourists. 'Honor' killings of former Muslims by those in their family who think they are 'dishonored' because one of their relatives left the Muslim cult.

Asking people in a very crowded city to be sensitive to what is still an open wound, and to just move a culture center, is not anti-religious fanaticism. It's something that the 'good neighbor' muslims should have done anyways without even being asked.


Ex

posted on Aug, 20 2010 @ 07:37 AM
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I would love to know WHO they polled!
Just people that have a time subscription,
the man on the street
random phone calls to........who??

These polls are such a joke,
yet we all think the media
is giving us a true glimpse into American opinion.

I can make a poll that says anything I want it to say.....
Just have to pick the right people to ask!



posted on Aug, 20 2010 @ 08:09 AM
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Originally posted by SPACEYstranger
I always get the feeling that the only people taking these polls are news-corporation addicted bible thumping bigots. I cannot believe that the majority of honest hardworking americans have these outspoken prejudices.


One should remember that the first surge of Islam in this country was clearly a counter culture revolution of sorts. A move by black muslims to form a separate identity, an opposition identity. It was race based and anti white establishment and white culture in general. American went as far a changing thier names to names that were not even african not only to identify with thier new masters but in a rejection of anything european in identity.

When Malcom X understood that Islam was really not the ansewer they killed him. He also died for exposing the truth.



"The white devil's day is over," Black Muslim leader Elijah Muhammad cried. "He was given six thousand years to rule ... He's already used up most trapping and murdering the black nations by the hundreds of thousands. Now he's worried, worried about the black man getting his revenge." Unless whites acceded to the Muslim demand for a separate territory for themselves, Muhammad said, "Your entire race will be destroyed and removed from this earth by Almighty God. And those black men who are still trying to integrate will inevitably be destroyed along with the whites."


White Devil

So yes its no shame at all and in fact wise to keep an eye on Muslims.



posted on Aug, 20 2010 @ 08:27 AM
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Originally posted by black cat
The Phelps clan at the Westboro Baptist Church has the constitutional right to picket and protest a military funeral with their crap. That doesn't make it a good idea as it's totally insensitive to those attending the funeral. Kind of like the Mosque near ground zero.


This is very true. And also why I support the Phelps clan's right to do what they do. I don't agree with it (as many people in the poll don't agree with the mosque), but I support their right.

I don't support bigotry in any form, though. So, I don't agree with Phelps and I don't agree with those trying to stop the cultural center. It's bigotry on both scores.



posted on Aug, 20 2010 @ 08:30 AM
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Nobody from TIME asked me how I felt?
How about you?
I wonder just how accurate this is.



posted on Aug, 20 2010 @ 11:30 AM
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Originally posted by FlyersFan

Having the Muslims voluntarily ... and with sensitivity to the issues ... move their 'cultural center' to another site isn't making anything an 'anti-Muslim zone'. It would just be them being a good neighbor and being sensitive to the fact that many people were murdered and the emotions are still very raw.


Telling them that they can't build on private land that they own not at the WTC site but blocks away is at least making the area an no-mosque zone.


If the Muslims were really trying to get along with their fellow New Yorkers, they wouldn't have the opening date set for SEPTEMBER 11, 2011. The ten year anniversary of 9/11. That's very insensitive as well.


Well, luckily they're not doing this. This is a false rumor that has spread through the internet. The opening date will be sometime in 2012 if they are actually able to build on schedule.



I prefer that America stay the example of Religious Freedom for ALL FAITHS...

Excellent. Then you don't mind public schools using your tax money for CHRISTMAS trees, and calling them CHRISTMAS trees? You don't mind the town halls across this country putting up manger scenes using your tax money to support it??


I don't want our tax money to go this project either



Asking the muslims to please move their 'culture center' to another location, and perhaps NOT to open it on the exact 10 year anniversary of 9/11 isn't 'anti-religious fanaticism'. It's just neighbors asking neighbors to be sensitive. (and they shouldn't have to ask .. it should be a given).


But the actual neighbors of this project -- the people who live where they are planning to build it in Lower Manhattan -- don't have a problem with the project. They support it. It's only when you poll people outside Manhattan that you start running into opposition, and the opposition seems to grow the further away you look.

And, again, it's not scheduled to be opened on 9/11/11, nor is that to be the groundbreaking date. Those are lies pushed to make people angry.


Examples of anti-religious fanaticism ... Islamic countries that won't allow bibles or rosary beads brought in by tourists. 'Honor' killings of former Muslims by those in their family who think they are 'dishonored' because one of their relatives left the Muslim cult.


Example of Islamic moderation: the imam of this particular mosque, who has condemned the 9/11 attacks as terrorism, who condemns all violence done in the name of religion, who has led (along with his educated, professional, non-burka-wearing wife) a non-profit that supports the rights of Muslim women for years.


Asking people in a very crowded city to be sensitive to what is still an open wound, and to just move a culture center, is not anti-religious fanaticism. It's something that the 'good neighbor' muslims should have done anyways without even being asked.


So why is it that most of the opposition is coming from people who don't live near where this will be built?

The proposal to move the cultural center is only reasonable if someone can suggest a location in the neighborhood where they plan to build as an alternative. So far I haven't seen anyone volunteering Lower Manhattan real estate to them. If the proposed location is not in Lower Manhattan (preferably in Tribeca), then it will no longer be a community center for the community where the imam has served a congregation for 27 years, where he has ties to the community and to other religious leaders (Jewish and Christian), and where they need the services that will be provided.


[edit on 8/20/2010 by americandingbat]



posted on Aug, 20 2010 @ 11:37 AM
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Originally posted by 19872012
How about moving some of that distrust to the elites? Stupid, stupid
sheeple.


How about you learn about the agenda of the Islamists before you critisize people for distrusting or being intolerant to this radical religion.



posted on Aug, 20 2010 @ 11:37 AM
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Originally posted by 19872012
How about moving some of that distrust to the elites? Stupid, stupid
sheeple.


How about you learn about the agenda of the Islamists before you critisize people for distrusting or being intolerant to this radical religion.



posted on Aug, 20 2010 @ 11:52 AM
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Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
It's sad to see that so many people oppose the free exercise of religion in this country... So sad...


Indeed it is, christians are sometimes just as oppressive as muslims, and Im a Christ follower. Yet the jails are full of non violent drug offenders because the populace of self rightious haters want not to see there streets soiled by people who excersize a natural freedom. And what these self rightious christ nazis dont realize is when the jails doors open one day, and the non-violents are released, the world will change for the paradigm of control freaks, and natural freedom will flourish. Not the contrived (man-made) freedom. I.E. money, taxes, spoonfed reality.



posted on Aug, 20 2010 @ 12:50 PM
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Originally posted by cluckerspud
Nobody from TIME asked me how I felt?
How about you?
I wonder just how accurate this is.




Another naive (about how polling works) person who thinks that EVERYONE has to be polled for the poll to be accurate. There is a little truth there in that everyone would have to be polled to make a poll 100% accurate. But a poll doesn't have to be 100% accurate. 95% accurate is also a very good indicator of how things will go and pollsters routinely achieve that accuracy by carefully selecting their sample groups and then adding the very small plus or minus error percentages you always see quoted in a scientific poll to account for the fact that 100% of the people were not able to be polled.

So, just like the weather right now in your location is not an accurate predictor of global warming, the pollsters didn't have to ask you personally for a poll to still be very accurate.

[edit on 8/20/2010 by centurion1211]



posted on Aug, 20 2010 @ 01:01 PM
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reply to post by centurion1211
 


Since you didn't answer my other question directed toward you, I don't expect an answer to this one. But... So, the majority of people in the state of New York and in the country of the USA don't want the mosque there. So what? What should be done? What's your point? It's not for them to decide. It's like our mayor taking a poll on what I should have for dinner tonight. It's none of their God damn business.

According to your source, only 55% of Americans said they wouldn't mind a mosque a few blocks from their home. People are bigots. So what? WHAT IS YOUR POINT??? Some people don't like it. So what?



posted on Aug, 20 2010 @ 01:26 PM
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Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
reply to post by centurion1211
 


Since you didn't answer my other question directed toward you, I don't expect an answer to this one. But... So, the majority of people in the state of New York and in the country of the USA don't want the mosque there. So what? What should be done? What's your point? It's not for them to decide. It's like our mayor taking a poll on what I should have for dinner tonight. It's none of their God damn business.

According to your source, only 55% of Americans said they wouldn't mind a mosque a few blocks from their home. People are bigots. So what? WHAT IS YOUR POINT??? Some people don't like it. So what?


What question didn't I answer?

And so what?

A pretty callous sounding question on your part since one thing people must do is find ways to get along - especially in areas like NYC where people are packed in together like sardines.

Let me make it personal for you. If you wanted to paint your house with zebra stripes and the law says you have every right to do it, but a majority your neighbors told you they wished you wouldn't due to how it might affect their property values, etc. What would you do - ram it down your neighbors throats just because you have the right? Now you seem like a decent, caring person who also has the ability to foresee what the future might be like surrounded by a bunch of pissed off neighbors. So I think you might be willing to take your neighbors feelings into consideration and look for some kind of compromise.

I see a very strong parallel here with the mosque. I also see a lot of people such as yourself that are suggesting the mosque issue be handled differently than they would likely handle a similar, personal situation. Is that from a lack of thinking the issue through, hypocrisy, or maybe other hidden agendas in play? Hard to say ...

So my question for you is stripes or no stripes?




posted on Aug, 20 2010 @ 01:32 PM
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Originally posted by centurion1211
If you wanted to paint your house with zebra stripes and the law says you have every right to do it, but a majority your neighbors told you they wished you wouldn't due to how it might affect their property values, etc.

That is not a real law. I think you should find a real example of law that is made by real people.
Besides if you don't like the law, you should change it. Isn't that the patriotic way?



posted on Aug, 20 2010 @ 01:37 PM
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Originally posted by Jazzyguy

Originally posted by centurion1211
If you wanted to paint your house with zebra stripes and the law says you have every right to do it, but a majority your neighbors told you they wished you wouldn't due to how it might affect their property values, etc.

That is not a real law. I think you should find a real example of law that is made by real people.
Besides if you don't like the law, you should change it. Isn't that the patriotic way?


You are incorrect. As chairman of a city planning commission, I presided over many real situations just as I outlined with the force of city ordinances (laws) behind them.

Perhaps you should try looking at the issue without any tunnel vision that is only single-focused on "freedom of religion" and thus leaving out the feelings of real people.



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