Almost Arrested For Obeying The Law! Need Advice.

First, let me say that I am almost always a supporter of our law enforcement officers. With that being said, I almost was arrested last night for doing exactly what I was told.

I ride a motorcycle every day that there isn’t rain her in Kentucky and I also have my CCDW so I carry my firearm on me pretty much everywhere. I was cruising down the interstate on my bike, just enjoying the ride on a sunny day. I noticed that cars behind me were backing off really quick so I assumed my shirt had flapped up exposing my gun. I adjusted so it was hidden again, but someone apparently called the cops because it wasn’t 15 minutes later that I say the blue lights in my mirror.

I don’t mind this, I would rather the cops check this out and be sure I was legal. When I stopped I got off my bike and put my hands on my head until I could inform him I was armed. The officer immediately drew down on me and ordered me on the ground. I was held at gunpoint until the second cop relieved me of my gun and handcuffed me, never once asking me a question. Once they had me patted down, THEN they started asking questions and finally got my wallet to verify my CCDW. The first officer tried to tell me that I couldn’t ride with my gun in the back of my pants (which I know is false) and they were going to impound my gun. Now I was pissed. I demanded the watch commander and sat on the side of road for almost an hour while waiting for him to get there. He initially tried to take up for his officers, but once he realized that I knew the gun laws better than them, they agreed to give me my gun back with a citation for brandishing a weapon in public.

Now, I’m outside of my head mad about this. I took the ticket and am going to court over it, but they threatened to arrest me for disturbing the peace, we were still on an interstate, what peace am I disturbing? Anyway, I’ve never had to get a lawyer for a court appearance and am not sure I even need one for this. What do you folks think I should do? Lawyer, no lawyer, lawsuit, etc. I’m looking for some understanding of what my rights are here because I truly don’t believe that a flapping shirt showing my holstered weapon can be construed as brandishing. Thanks in advance.



P.S. Before all you anti-gun folks start up, you’re not going to change my mind about carrying concealed. I have drawn my weapon only once in defense of my wife and child. Didn’t have to shoot thank god, but if I hadn’t had it, the man with the knife could have hurt all of us. So save your cowboy, gangster, blah, blah, blah comments because I carry to protect my family and nothing anyone can say will ever change my mind on that.


[edit on 19-8-2010 by KILL_DOGG]

I think the best thing you can do is just pay the ticket or pay for a lawyer. Either way your going to loose money. Like I can see from a cops perspective that it's safer to detain then ask questions, but handcuffs is too far. I don't know police protocol what they should have done is asked you to remove your weapon and put your hands where they are visible then ask if you have a license. All these terror scares are just going too far.

I am defiantly pro-gun and I would love to be able to carry a concealed. Walking home from the university at night where there have been rapes I would feel 100 times safer.

Thank God for the 2nd amendment. Sorry you got a couple of douches. More and more I feel lucky for living where I do. In my almost 25 years of driving I've only had one encounter with a police officer in which he was a complete jerk. If you want to fight it go ahead, but it's unlikely you'll win anything significant.

All I can say is good luck. Sincerely.

As it is you never have to break a law to become the target of this 'systems' noise and nonsense.

If you can afford it I'd get a lawyer. At least find a local one who you can discuss your situation with for free.

I've had numerous no law broken troubles with the system and they always run over me with a truck and drag things out to take up as much time and money as possible before saying "oh, nevermind all this you're free to go."

The most recent instance I was so PO'd that I went ahead and got a lawyer. I stopped talking to the cops and let the lawyer talk for me. In less that 24 hours all my troubles were gone.

Well worth the price for me. Even if all it did was show the cops I wasnt going to a "fun" target for them anymore.

call your nearest NRA rep now they have all the info you need, if you walk in with out rep a lawyer your up s creek with out a paddle.

You could loose your ccwp, for they do not like being told of there job and that, you can/will and do have the right to ccw, and yes, this could get ugly.

I do not know were you live but back east in KY TN FL they the LEA's, law enforcement agency's, are do there best to give law abiding citizens crap.

Just a NRA member given you the heads up.

reply to post by KILL_DOGG


Definitely fight it, because a "brandishing" charge will likely cost you your permit, and could impact you down the road when applying for certain jobs.

Accidentally exposing your weapon is not "brandishing" your weapon.

bran·dish (brndsh)
tr.v. bran·dished, bran·dish·ing, bran·dish·es
1. To wave or flourish (a weapon, for example) menacingly.
2. To display ostentatiously. See Synonyms at flourish.
n.
A menacing or defiant wave or flourish.

www.thefreedictionary.com...

I can't see this site, it is blocked, but it sounds like what you need:
What does and does not constitute brandishing?

reply to post by bekod

I do not know were you live but back east in KY TN FL they the LEA's, law enforcement agency's, are do there best to give law abiding citizens crap.

I disagree with this.

I have had the occasional eyes rolled or concerned LEO, but I have never been given much of a hard time. I always hand my Concealed Permit with my Driver's License. They ask me if I am carrying, I say yes, they ask if it is within my reach, if I say yes, they ask me to put it out in plain site and away from my person. If I say know, then they ask where it is, and they ask me to please not reach into that area.

One time, I was pulled over in Georgia, doing 95 in a 55, had my AK47 behind the seat, my 1911, chambered and in the truck door, and 1 beer out of a six pack left on the center console. I had a truck full of Mexicans, only 1 spoke English. The Georgia Trooper was totally overwhelmed. We laid everything out on the hood of his car, he asked for some explanations, I told him we had just finished a construction job in Albany, and were on our way back to Florida. He asked if there were any more weapons on my person. I gave up my pocket knife and a utility knife. The hood of his car looked like an episode from Cops! After running some registrations he asked me to please not reload my weapons until he was out of sight, and he asked me to please take my time getting back to Florida. He didn't even write a speeding ticket!

"Most" LEOs are very cool and understanding.

Originally posted by bekod
call your nearest NRA rep now they have all the info you need, if you walk in with out rep a lawyer your up s creek with out a paddle.

This is the exact reason I posted this on here. I would never have even thought about contacting the NRA. Excellent suggestion and thank you.

Originally posted by getreadyalready

Definitely fight it, because a "brandishing" charge will likely cost you your permit, and could impact you down the road when applying for certain jobs.

I just got done reading that being found guilty of a brandishing charge is grounds for permanent loss of my CCDW. This is going to suck a lot worse than I thought.

Absolutely 100% do NOT just pay the ticket. As others have said, it can and WILL cost you your conceal permit.

Get a lawyer.. if you can't afford one, get a court appointed one. At the very least fight the ticket. Accidental exposure of a concealed weapon is not "brandishing".

Originally posted by getreadyalready
reply to post by KILL_DOGG

 

Definitely fight it, because a "brandishing" charge will likely cost you your permit, and could impact you down the road when applying for certain jobs.

Accidentally exposing your weapon is not "brandishing" your weapon.

bran·dish (brndsh)
tr.v. bran·dished, bran·dish·ing, bran·dish·es
1. To wave or flourish (a weapon, for example) menacingly.
2. To display ostentatiously. See Synonyms at flourish.
n.
A menacing or defiant wave or flourish.

www.thefreedictionary.com...

I can't see this site, it is blocked, but it sounds like what you need:
What does and does not constitute brandishing?

Somebody is BSing the Original Poster. Kentucky does not have any law prohibiting "brandishing." Kentucky Revised Statutes Chapter 527 contains Kentucky's laws regarding firearms.
Now, if you pull it out and aim it at someone that could be either terroristic threatening or wanton endangerment.
And the cops have another problem. They issued a citation for something that did not occur in their presence. They were acting on hearsay - actually, multiple hearsay. The dispatcher saying that whoever answered the telephone said that whoever called said that someone was carrying a gun.
You do need a lawyer. The cops and county attorney (prosecuter) are going to know they have a bad arrest and prosecution. And there is a particular way you have to win in order to set up a lawsuit against the cops. You must win "on the merits." That means if you win because the cop doesn't show up for court, your lawsuit probably goes away.

reply to post by KILL_DOGG


Edit: 4nis beat me to it! Here is my post anyway:

Another thing to consider.

The caller was more than likely anonymous. They won't show up in coart, the officer did not see your weapon exposed. There is no evidence for a conviction.

Just showing up in court is probably enough to get the charges dismissed.

In my opinion though, I would get a lawyer, pay $150, get a letter written to the prosecutor, and get this dropped before the court date.

The prosecutor is going to know everything we are discussing. It was not "brandishing," and there is probably not a reliable witness, so this is a waste of a prosecutors time.

Don't settle for some diversion, or nolo contendere either. You need this dropped completely.


[edit on 19-8-2010 by getreadyalready]

reply to post by 4nsicphd


Nice and thank you. I'm not so much concerned about a lawsuit, really just wanting to draw attention to this BS. If I was in one of the surrounding counties that have Mayberry sheriff, I could almost understand this, but I was two miles outside of downtown Louisville. Still pissed about this, can't concentrate here at work.

Man all I have to say is something is out of control these days, trust me when I tell you man your not the only one I got arrested and jailed on friday the 13th for trying to assist someone that I thought was being mugged or worse, turns out it was a plain clothed cop I thought it was a criminal with a gun I got brought in because all I did was wanted to see his badge and photo ID he didnt like that, neither did his buddies when they arrived and was then locked down in full restraints and a 4x4x10 room chained to the floor and issued a disorderly conduct that is going to cost if i choose to plead guilty 337.00 USD...
Something is out of control

Check your U2U, I sent you a link to a better forum to ask advice of this nature.
Good luck, 'DOGG, and thank you for carrying.

First off, no need for an attorney immediately. The initial appearance is only that, initial. You either plead guilty or not guilty. If you want to cause THEM a headache, do not plead to either. Ask for a jurisdictional hearing on the case. This is to make them first prove they actually have jurisdiction.

Now, if they further push it, plead not guilty and ask for a preliminary hearing with the DA or I am sure assistant DA. You still have no need for an attorney. Go to the preliminary hearing and the DA will go over the case and at THAT time ask for a COMPLETE copy of ALL their evidence. They may or may not give it to you. If the DA starts blathering on about threats and possible further punishment, tell them at that time you will be retaining an attorney to defend you, but also to look into the possibility of filing civil rights infringement against the officers and the court.

What another member stated is a VERY good idea. The NRA has attorneys exactly for cases like these.

If it was me, I would take this all the way to a jury trial if the courts attempt to continue on their mission to remove your rights.

All above advice is not in anyway legal advice. This is all between members on an internet site. I am NOT a lawyer and this is just what I would do.

I myself open carry. I need no stinking license to do something lawful. And actually hope for the day that something that has happened to you to happen to me. I would sue the living bejusus out of them.

That is another option. File a small claims case against the officers, the court and the DA's office for any and all costs incurred due to them infringing on your rights.

No JURY in the world would ever convict you, and I am sure this will be tossed out.

Keep carrying and remember, DON'T TREAD ON ME!

reply to post by KILL_DOGG


In all fairness, the cops may have overreacted, but in today's climate, you have to take some personal responsibility. Seeing a biker headed into Louisville with a gun in the back of his pants does raise some concern for many people. As you said yourself, the cops needed to at least check you out.

Don't steam at work for too long. They overreacted some, but you did get to walk away, with your gun, and you are now at work. It could have gone, much, much worse! Hell, you could have been tazed or shot!

It depends on the laws in your state. Here, on a motorcycle, you'd be OK, but standing on the sidewalk could be a problem. In some states they have a charge of "accidental brandishing". If the people in the car who reported you can convince the court that they feared for their lives, you might have a problem on your hands.

I hope you don't lose your permit, but learn the lesson. Concealed is concealed.

[edit on 8/19/2010 by Benevolent Heretic]

Originally posted by getreadyalready
reply to post by KILL_DOGG

 

In all fairness, the cops may have overreacted, but in today's climate, you have to take some personal responsibility. Seeing a biker headed into Louisville with a gun in the back of his pants does raise some concern for many people. As you said yourself, the cops needed to at least check you out.

Oh, don't get me wrong; the cops pulling me over was perfectly fine with me. It's happened more than once. Even on a cruiser, my shirt will hike up sometimes if I don't have the tail trapped under my butt. It was all about the fact that even though I had my hands on my head, they felt the need to hold me at gun point while they handcuffed me. If the officer wants to have his firearm out of the holster and pointed at the ground just to be safe, again I have no problem with that. This jackhole had his finger on the trigger and pointed center mass. I've lost more than a little sleep over this.

reply to post by getreadyalready
so the NRA emails i get are wrong? or was this just a one time thing? i now the NRA does pull some fluff and puff now and then but i do like getting the hole story and seeing over the fence.