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What does Bare Arms really mean?

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posted on Aug, 18 2010 @ 09:26 PM
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So I happened to be watching a docu on the waco incident. At some point it showed pictures from teh scene and said "And just as his flock accepted his sexual doctrine, they accepted his order to stockpile illegal weapons..."

This got me thinking... What could be construed as an illegal weapon under the US Bill of rights. I thought, perhaps a stockpile would be ruled out...

So when I thought about the US Citizens guaranteed right "to bare arms", I considered "well what does that really mean?"

Well here is are the definitions of bare. It appears to me that this is meant as a verb, not an adjective. So with that in mind, which of the following definitions do you believe best describes the definition of bare as it is found in the Bill of Rights.






bare
/beə(r)/

verb 1

lay bare • bare your breasts • bare your feelings  
make public 
syn: publicize, publicise, air
lay bare 
syn: denude, denudate, strip
adjective

not having a protective covering • a bare blade  
syn: unsheathed
lacking its natural or customary covering • a bare hill • bare feet  
just barely adequate or within a lower limit • a bare majority
syn: marginal
apart from anything else; without additions or modifications • only the bare facts
syn: mere, simple
lacking a surface finish such as paint • bare wood
syn: unfinished
providing no shelter or sustenance • bare rocky hills
syn: barren, bleak, desolate, stark
having everything extraneous removed including contents • the bare walls • the cupboard was bare
syn: stripped
lacking in amplitude or quantity • a bare livelihood
syn: scanty, spare
lacking embellishment or ornamentation
syn: plain, spare, unembellished, unornamented
completely unclothed • bare bodies
syn: au naturel, naked, nude
1 Usage sample:
They bare the trees.
ORIGIN: Old English bær. Old English barian. Inflected forms.



Personally it almost appears as if the "to make public" is the closest I can find... which doesn't really seem to insinuate that stockpiling in secret is acceptable.

your thoughts?




posted on Aug, 18 2010 @ 09:34 PM
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reply to post by HunkaHunka
 


what constitutes an illegal weapon?

the ones the democrats made "illegal"


theres a long list of what qualfies as illegal ?

fully automatic to how many rounds to what it looks like.... to even switchblade knifes, explosives to how much gun powder you can legally have on your premises, to even how many rounds...


then its not only federal law but state and local laws- take a look at california gun laws.


the shear volume of laws when it comes to firearms is INSANE


it is one of the most regulated things in this country.

[edit on 18-8-2010 by neo96]



posted on Aug, 18 2010 @ 09:43 PM
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The word is "bear".
In context it means the right to have and keep weapons.



posted on Aug, 18 2010 @ 09:43 PM
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A little more than a month before the ATF raid, the sheriff had
determined there were no illegal weapons in the Branch Davidian church.
The sheriff, pursuant to a search warrant, had taken in all the arms and
then returned them after determining they were all legal weapons. The
BATF had stated that the presence of illegal weapons was the reason for
the massive assault on the church.

www.skepticfiles.org...
I think a lot of the story About the branch Davidians is confused



posted on Aug, 18 2010 @ 09:45 PM
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I believe they meant "carry and use"

I don't think the 2010 websters has all the same words and definitions as the 1776 version. If there even was a websters then, LOL.

We have to use common sense when interpreting the 2nd ammendment. Obviously they didn't mean nuclear arms. But I don't think they meant us to be as restricted as we are right now.


+1 more 
posted on Aug, 18 2010 @ 09:47 PM
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ITS BEAR NOT BARE FFS, i mean jeesus, wtf, and you wonder why people dont know whats actualy meant in the constitution.


Pronunciation:/bɛː/
verb (past bore /bɔː/; past participle borne /bɔːn/)
[with object]

*
1 (of a person) carry:he was bearing a tray of brimming glasses the warriors bore lances tipped with iron
*
(of a vehicle or boat) convey (passengers or cargo):steamboats bear the traveller out of Kerrerra Sound
*
have or display as a visible mark or feature:many of the papers bore his flamboyant signature
*
be called by (a name or title):he bore the surname Tiller
*
(bear oneself) carry or conduct oneself in a specified manner:she bore herself with dignity
*
2 support; carry the weight of:walls which cannot bear a stone vault
*
take responsibility for:no one likes to bear the responsibility for such decisions the expert's fee shall be borne by the tenant
*
be able to accept or stand up to:it is doubtful whether either of these distinctions would bear scrutiny
*
3 endure (an ordeal or difficulty):she bore the pain stoically
*
[with modal and negative] manage to tolerate (a situation or experience):she could hardly bear his sarcasm [with infinitive] :I cannot bear to see you hurt
*
(cannot bear someone/thing) strongly dislike:I can't bear caviar
*
4 give birth to (a child):she bore sixteen daughters [with two objects] :his wife had borne him a son
*
(of a tree or plant) produce (fruit or flowers)
*
5 [no object, with adverbial of direction] turn and proceed in a specified direction:bear left and follow the old drove road



posted on Aug, 18 2010 @ 09:48 PM
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"Bare Arms?" A naked 357?


I agree, my interpretation does not include secret stockpile either.
My dictionary says: unconcealed; without disguise; uncover (a part of the body or other thing) and expose it to view

So I take it as the right to either show/wear a gun, or even pull one from concealment, to then show it.

Perhaps back in those days owning 1 or 2 guns was average, whereas today's accessibility to guns, and the number of guns available, coupled with a society that can afford multiple(more than 2), has unintentionally expanded the original idea a bit.

spec



posted on Aug, 18 2010 @ 09:49 PM
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It's not "bare" as in expose. "Bear" as in carry sounds right too.



posted on Aug, 18 2010 @ 09:50 PM
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"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bare Arms, shall not be infringed."

All able-bodied freemen were part of the militia.

A freeman has the right (the duty) to appear in public displaying (bearing) his weapon (today we would call that 'open carry'). To conceal a weapon was thought beneath him. He bore his weapon openly.

Also, a freeman has the right to "keep" arms. There is no limit as to quantity or quality. Every freeman has the right to keep any weapon. Did the founders even envision nukes? Certainly not, but freemen did have cannons in the barn (well, the wealthy ones did).

The founders knew a freeman had the right to self defense against *ANY* threat, be it a highwayman, a bear, or a tyrannical government. To limit a freeman to defend himself with sub-par weapons of the day was not in their mindset. They did not limit the freeman to swords while the government had firearms. No. The freeman had a right to any & all weapons of the day. Else, how could he effectively defend himself against a tyrannical government?

Also, least we forget, our rights do not come from the founders, the Constitution, nor the government. They come from our creator &/or our humanity. The 2nd Am simply states that the government does not have the right to infringe (impede, hinder, trespass, alter, retard, regulate) this right. But we've seen how that worked out...



posted on Aug, 18 2010 @ 09:51 PM
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You have to realize the intent of the framers. They intended to give Americans a method to fight back government as a last resort. If all else failed with government and tyranny was the order of the day, the people could dislodge said tyranny with their weapons.

The 2nd Amendment wasn't meant for people wanting to hunt or collect weapons, rather it was to allow the public to match the firepower of government so that government could oppress.

This should mean that the people should have the right to arm themselves equal to government. However, in this day in age, the 2nd Amendment has been watered down so much, that the people now only have a right to hunting rifles and pea shooters. Because we are not allowed to arm ourselves on par with government, it completely negates the intent of the 2nd Amendment and our founding fathers are twisting in their graves.

--airspoon



posted on Aug, 18 2010 @ 09:51 PM
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"The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government."
Thomas Jefferson

I hope that says it as clearly as it needs to be said



posted on Aug, 18 2010 @ 09:52 PM
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reply to post by speculativeoptimist
 


You basicaly should not be allowed anywhere near a firearm. Screw going to a country where people such as yourself are legaly allowed to wander the streets with loaded weapons, #, that.



posted on Aug, 18 2010 @ 09:55 PM
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reply to post by Danbones
 


You mean, it was never intended for people to stock pile M16s for wandering into you local coffe shop??? and getting all confused by the fact everyone is basicaly freaking out?????

historical context?!?!

WHATS THAT?????



posted on Aug, 18 2010 @ 09:57 PM
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Originally posted by Johnze
ITS BEAR NOT BARE FFS, i mean jeesus, wtf, and you wonder why people dont know whats actualy meant in the constitution.


Pronunciation:/bɛː/
verb (past bore /bɔː/; past participle borne /bɔːn/)
[with object]

*
1 (of a person) carry:he was bearing a tray of brimming glasses the warriors bore lances tipped with iron
*
(of a vehicle or boat) convey (passengers or cargo):steamboats bear the traveller out of Kerrerra Sound
*
have or display as a visible mark or feature:many of the papers bore his flamboyant signature
*
be called by (a name or title):he bore the surname Tiller
*
(bear oneself) carry or conduct oneself in a specified manner:she bore herself with dignity
*
2 support; carry the weight of:walls which cannot bear a stone vault
*
take responsibility for:no one likes to bear the responsibility for such decisions the expert's fee shall be borne by the tenant
*
be able to accept or stand up to:it is doubtful whether either of these distinctions would bear scrutiny
*
3 endure (an ordeal or difficulty):she bore the pain stoically
*
[with modal and negative] manage to tolerate (a situation or experience):she could hardly bear his sarcasm [with infinitive] :I cannot bear to see you hurt
*
(cannot bear someone/thing) strongly dislike:I can't bear caviar
*
4 give birth to (a child):she bore sixteen daughters [with two objects] :his wife had borne him a son
*
(of a tree or plant) produce (fruit or flowers)
*
5 [no object, with adverbial of direction] turn and proceed in a specified direction:bear left and follow the old drove road






Ok, I don't seem to see any here which insuates that stockpiling is an intended interpretation, is that correct?



posted on Aug, 18 2010 @ 09:59 PM
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Originally posted by Danbones
"The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government."
Thomas Jefferson

I hope that says it as clearly as it needs to be said



Well that does give us TJ's perspective on the matter.

Thanks.



posted on Aug, 18 2010 @ 09:59 PM
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reply to post by airspoon
 


airspoon finally something we both agree on



posted on Aug, 18 2010 @ 10:02 PM
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We are all wrong!

What the Founding Fathers really meant is that we all have the right to Bear arms. How is that not so easily interpreted.

We can all kill bears and keep their arms. DUH!



posted on Aug, 18 2010 @ 10:03 PM
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reply to post by HunkaHunka
 


Are you high?, please tell me you understand the difference between bare, as in naked and bear, as in carry?. Which was the point of my deffinition, if you have a problem with that, well meh, email oxford an angry letter.



posted on Aug, 18 2010 @ 10:03 PM
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reply to post by Johnze
 



You basicaly should not be allowed anywhere near a firearm.


Well ookay then..
Don't worry, even though I grew up with guns and hunting, I was shot in a hunting accident. I was 20 and that event, coupled with some cosmic endeavors actually took my desire to have a gun away. I'm somewhat passive these days and I, nor most of my friends ,own guns. I don't have any problems with people having them, it is just a matter of personal choice for myself. Just for clarification....



people such as yourself

Not sure what you derived from my statement, I was merely responding to the OP's analogy.


spec

[edit on 18-8-2010 by speculativeoptimist]



posted on Aug, 18 2010 @ 10:07 PM
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reply to post by speculativeoptimist
 





Perhaps back in those days owning 1 or 2 guns was average, whereas today's accessibility to guns, and the number of guns available, coupled with a society that can afford multiple(more than 2), has unintentionally expanded the original idea a bit.


A good thought, however you are thinking in terms of modern manufacturing.
This was a time before assembly lines; no two guns or even two like parts for a gun were exactly the same. In a time when most men either made their own firearms or most commonly paid a gunsmith to fabricate a firearm or it's components for them.

Interchangeable parts didnt really become the "in thing" in these united States until about 1798 if i recall my history correctly, and even then it was mostly for the army.

I would argue that due to a lack of firing capacity and durability it would be more common to own as many firearms as one could have afforded.



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