Heliocentrism an Anti-Christian Hoax?

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posted on Aug, 22 2010 @ 06:14 AM
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Well technically, the Sun and Earth orbit each other - though of course, the Sun is so much more massive than the Earth, that the wobble Earth makes is basically invisible.




posted on Aug, 22 2010 @ 07:23 AM
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Originally posted by 19872012
Well technically, the Sun and Earth orbit each other - though of course, the Sun is so much more massive than the Earth, that the wobble Earth makes is basically invisible.
I think you mean the wobble the sun makes is basically invisible, right? And yes that's sort of true but more technically they orbit a common center of gravity called the barycenter. And the common center of gravity of the sun and the earth is well inside the sun.

Barycenter in astrophysics
The sun's radius is 696000km and the barycenter with Earth is only 449km from the sun's center.



posted on Aug, 26 2010 @ 10:21 PM
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I spent a few days making a video of a geocentric system.
I had to learn to use a 3D graphics program to do it so it may be a little rough, being new to this particular one, Art of Illusion and having previous experience only with Sketchup for making static buildings.
This video shows the Earth in the center with an orbiting Sun with Venus circling it. An outer orbit has the planet Mars which has an eccentric orbit that allows it to at one point get closer to Earth than the line the Sun takes.
This is rather simplistic of a simulation but I have to say that it is amazingly difficult to imagine something like this after being taught all your life that it is the other way around.

This is in HD 720 so click on the title in the video and you can watch it full-screen to see the detail, otherwise Mars looks like a dot. I went to a lot of trouble making this, so enjoy it.
(remember to click on the resolution button to get the full HD)
also, my writing style may seem at first glance to be gibberish, but trust me and it will eventually make sense.


[edit on 26-8-2010 by jmdewey60]



posted on Sep, 16 2010 @ 09:40 AM
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reply to post by jmdewey60
 


please explain why a " transit of mars " has never been observed



posted on Sep, 16 2010 @ 10:13 AM
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Originally posted by jmdewey60
This video shows the Earth in the center with an orbiting Sun with Venus circling it. An outer orbit has the planet Mars which has an eccentric orbit that allows it to at one point get closer to Earth than the line the Sun takes.
This is rather simplistic of a simulation but I have to say that it is amazingly difficult to imagine something like this after being taught all your life that it is the other way around.
So how long does it take Venus to circle the sun in your model, and does this model predict the observations we see? It looks to me like the view of Venus would be obscured by the sun frequently in your model, much more frequently than it actually happens, unless I am misunderstanding your model?



posted on Sep, 16 2010 @ 10:16 AM
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reply to post by jmdewey60
 

I'm sorry, but I don't see how the orbit for Mars that you're describing in your video would results in the observance of retrograde motion from Earth. Here'a link describing the type of orbit Mars would need to have in a geocentric system in order to exhibit retrograde motion and why it's untenable based on our observation of the remaining bodies in the solar system:
www.lasalle.edu...



posted on Sep, 16 2010 @ 10:17 AM
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Originally posted by jmdewey60ut all it proved was that the inner planets, Mercury and Venus, orbit the sun,


this , sir can only be described as geocenticism of the gaps




Mercury is a small rock, and the large Venus is gaseous, so no great mass is required to hold them.


venus is NOT gaseous - where did you get this notion ??????

how do you explain away the data from american and soviet probes that returned data on the composition of venus ?


The earth has a very dense core and is enough to hold the sun, which is not much more than a hollow plasma field, in orbit.


what is your evidence for this claim

the heliocentric model demonstrates that the sun has great mass and exerts a considerable gravitational effect on the earth via spring and neap tides

also comets orbit the sun , not the earth with huge eliptical orbits - how does geocentricism explain comets ?



posted on Sep, 16 2010 @ 04:38 PM
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reply to post by iterationzero
 

I'm sorry, but I don't see how the orbit for Mars that you're describing in your video would results in the observance of retrograde motion from Earth.
The epicycles of Mars are caused by the fact that as it gets to one end of its uneven elliptical orbit, it slows down, and has nothing to do with whether the Sun does or does not orbit Earth. The zodiac appears to move in a cycle because of the opposition between the Earth and Sun. Mars moves to beat the speed of the moving backdrop of stars until it slows down, then it falls behind. Later it picks up speed after making its way past what amounts to a corner in the track.



posted on Sep, 16 2010 @ 04:44 PM
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reply to post by Arbitrageur
 

So how long does it take Venus to circle the sun in your model
I set it to go around the sun at the given rate or, if I remember correctly now, four times a year. That is a proximate and it was there mainly to show that Venus does in fact orbit the sun. There probably is an adjustment necessary to fit this scheme but not something built into my model.
Really the idea of my model was to visualise how Mars can sometimes be closer to earth than the sun, without the two running into each other.



posted on Sep, 16 2010 @ 04:56 PM
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reply to post by ignorant_ape
 

please explain why a " transit of mars " has never been observed
Do you mean Mars coming between earth and the sun? I think that was what I intended to show in my video, that the sun could orbit earth at the same time that Mars does by the close part of the orbit being when the sun is opposite.
If I am wrong about this please let me know. It is hard for me to find that kind of data, at least in a format easy for the average person to understand.



posted on Sep, 16 2010 @ 05:47 PM
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reply to post by ignorant_ape
 

also comets orbit the sun , not the earth with huge eliptical orbits - how does geocentricism explain comets ?
If you know about comets that pass between the earth and the sun, let me know because I am not finding any. If they are way out somewhere it would be difficult to determine what they are orbiting exactly.



posted on Sep, 16 2010 @ 07:50 PM
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Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by iterationzero
 

I'm sorry, but I don't see how the orbit for Mars that you're describing in your video would results in the observance of retrograde motion from Earth.
The epicycles of Mars are caused by the fact that as it gets to one end of its uneven elliptical orbit, it slows down, and has nothing to do with whether the Sun does or does not orbit Earth. The zodiac appears to move in a cycle because of the opposition between the Earth and Sun. Mars moves to beat the speed of the moving backdrop of stars until it slows down, then it falls behind. Later it picks up speed after making its way past what amounts to a corner in the track.

Again, please demonstrate how one would observe retrograde motion of Mars from Earth based on your model. When you say "uneven elliptical orbit", that sounds like something egg-shaped to me. So while the relative speed of Mars would change when observed from a point inside of the orbit I think you're describing, it would not change direction, as is currently observed. If you looked at the link I posted, they show this very plainly by drawing a line between the observer and Mars and show the resulting apparent path of Mars based on its orbit. If you do the same, you could clearly show your case.



posted on Sep, 16 2010 @ 08:08 PM
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Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by ignorant_ape
 

please explain why a " transit of mars " has never been observed
Do you mean Mars coming between earth and the sun? I think that was what I intended to show in my video, that the sun could orbit earth at the same time that Mars does by the close part of the orbit being when the sun is opposite.
If I am wrong about this please let me know. It is hard for me to find that kind of data, at least in a format easy for the average person to understand.

I think I see what the confusion is - Mars has never been observed coming between the Earth and the Sun. Quite the opposite. What Mr. Ape is talking about is this: Transit of Earth from Mars. What I'm talking about is this: "As Mars approaches opposition it begins a period of retrograde motion, which means it will appear to move backwards in a looping motion with respect to the background stars. The duration of this retrograde motion lasts for about 72 days, and Mars reaches its peak luminosity in the middle of this motion." (from en.wikipedia.org...) Again, if you click on the link that I provided earlier, it explains the retrograde motion of Mars using both geo- and heliocentric models, and why the geocentric model is refutable based on the evidence gathered.



posted on Sep, 17 2010 @ 01:26 AM
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reply to post by iterationzero
 
If you had a big tube, or a really tall smokestack that was not being used, to where you could look straight up and see stars, regardless if was day or night, and you looked through it every exact revolution of the earth, the stars would stay pretty much in the same place all year. That is not so practical so over the ages people got into the habit of thinking of a rotation of the earth as when the sun went around in a circle, or to put it simply, a day.. Well, it isn't exactly, and because it varies slightly from one day to the next, over a year's time the zodiac goes around. It really is not moving, but only appears to because we are looking at whatever is opposite the sun and is easily observable.
If you were to check the position of the earth with your tube, then made your observation of Mars, and plotted it for real rotation time, and not sun time, you would never see the plot going backwards.



edit on 17-9-2010 by jmdewey60 because: spelling



posted on Sep, 17 2010 @ 04:21 AM
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reply to post by jmdewey60
 


ok - now you are claiming that venus orbits the sun 4 times a year - then please explain why a transit of venus across the sun is not observed 4 times a year also



posted on Sep, 17 2010 @ 04:24 AM
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reply to post by jmdewey60
 


sigh - you CANNOT see stars by looking up a tall smokestack during the day - that is a absurd belief - you see a collumm of the earths atmosphere in which dust and water vapor reflect light - all you see is a small portion of the atmosphere

edit on 17-9-2010 by ignorant_ape because: clarification



posted on Sep, 17 2010 @ 04:28 AM
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reply to post by iterationzero
 


no - i am asking him why there are no obervations of a transit of mars across the face of the sun

i ask this because he now claims that the sun orbits the earth , and mars has an eccentric orbit that brings it closer to earth than the orbit of the sun



posted on Sep, 17 2010 @ 04:32 AM
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reply to post by jmdewey60
 


sigh - all onserved comets orbit the sun - why do they do this if the sun has near zero mass as you claim

google " sun grazers "

it is your claim that the earth is at the centre of your alleged geo-system - so explain why comets dont orbit the earth - its a simple question

you claim every other body in your allehed geosystem orbits the earth - why not comets ?



posted on Sep, 17 2010 @ 04:33 AM
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Assuming the universe is infinite would that not mean that everything is at the exact centre of the universe?



posted on Sep, 17 2010 @ 06:00 AM
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Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by iterationzero
 
If you had a big tube, or a really tall smokestack that was not being used, to where you could look straight up and see stars, regardless if was day or night, and you looked through it every exact revolution of the earth, the stars would stay pretty much in the same place all year.

Have you actually ever tried this? Because, you know... it doesn't actually work. Again, if your model doesn't exhibit retrograde motion as it is currently observed, then your model is wrong. If the model doesn't fit the observable facts, you're back to the drawing board on the model. This is how science works, friend.






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