First Hand account: Florida Beaches Are Polluted With Oil (I was wrong)

Originally posted by earthdude
Overfishing and other pollutants are killing the oceans much faster than all the oil spills. We are worried about the wrong thing. I'm having gulf shrimp for dinner, and some said there would be none.

it's just like: we're sh@tting because you're sh@tting more

reply to post by Come Clean

The Georgia Sea Grant College Program, housed at the University of Georgia, has taken a leading role in working with state legislators toward the development of a monitoring system to check the presence of oil in Georgia's waters and coastal ecosystem."

Businesses like BP have hired college professors to work for them on conducting scientific studies in the Gulf of Mexico so why do you have a problem with State Legislators crafting legislation to ensure the citizens of Georgia aren't adversely impacted by oil and chemicals spilled into the Gulf?

The Government's job is actually to protect and serve, and this case they appear to be focused on both aspects.

Not monitoring these things after millions of gallons of oil and chemicals have been dumped INTO THE FOOD CHAIN, would be completely irresponsible.

Nor does it specify what party the Legislators are.

So your contention that this is a Republican led effort to protect and serve people, is still without founding based on what you have presented.

If there was no oil then there would be no grant money and monitoring systems. Do you agree with that?

You are absolutely right if BP the company who's negligence in not following safety procedures shortly before YOU joined ATS had not released millions of gallons of oil and millions of gallons of toxic chemicals into the Gulf through that negligence then no there would be no need to monitor those things.

The truth is monitoring like the clean up requires money to perform, equipment has to be purchased, workers have to be paid. That's how capitilism works, if you need a product or a service it requires money.

The Universities aiding local, state, and federal governments interested in PROTECTING and SERVING the people will need their budgets to be augmented when taking on that extra expense.

Ultimately this should be charged back to BP and not the Taxpayers, so who are you more worried about, the citizens you don't government to protect and serve, or BP's Check Book?

Again, I think it's irresponsible to spread fear during these economic hard times. If the beach is bad then don't go. Have the Governor of Florida declare it bad to go too the beach. But to spread internet fear is irresponsible at best.

So once again we get back to your central theme of money. What amount of money do you feel is worth a human life, or the quality of a human life that degrades through exposure to harmful chemicals that leads to a disease that robs the quality of one's health and longevity.

Why not just open up a Russian Roulette stand to make money if you feel making money means taking a chance with people's lives, health and safety.

Back in the day before corporations gained absolute hedgemoney "Safety First" was the operating mode of the day, now it's profit firsts.

I didn't read anywhere in Georgia's study that took into account rising sea temperatures. Did you? Would rising sea temperatures affect the evaporation rate? Their entire debunking relied on outdated models, wild speculation and gross assumptions. What about hurricanes? Nowhere in their report did it take into account a hurricane picking up the oil and dispersing it. Basically spreading it out over the entire Gulf of Mexico.

Outstanding, arguing using psuedo science to encourage others not to use actual science.

There have been no hurricanes in the Gulf this year, so that is a mute point, and Temperatures are no warmer than normal in most of the Gulf this year. Your study didn't say the Gulf of Mexico Temperatures had risen but oceans on average.

Meaning some ocean temperatures could have actually gone down, while others went up by a larger margin, that the average then is applied to across the board instead of body of water by body of water.

So on one hand you are desparaging environmental concerns, then using out of context scientific data regarding global warming that scientists have not reached a consensus on to begin with, and much evidence suggest global warming trend figures are being manipulated for the purpose of introducing a carbons emission's tax, which by the way the Oil Companies would get the initial float on that tax.

Other man made events will cause more problems than this spill ever did. Those nutrients they speak of comes from us. Farmers and consumers that dump pollutants into the Mississippi River. It's time to start blaming ourselves also. All we do is blame others and refuse to look inward at ourselves. Our greed and selfishness will kill us all

So it would seem then since so much man made activity is impacting the oceans that monitoring them better would be a wise idea to ensure a healthy food supply, and recreational areas.

However NO once again, the full impact of the Gulf Oil Disaster is years if not decades away from being known, nor has the well been permanently sealed either. So it's not a past tense situation that is over, it is an ongoing situation in a highly populated area that depends on the ocean for both food and tourism.

Your reasons for encouraging governments NOT to protect their citizens through responsible ongoing studies on the impact all boil down to money, and since it's BP on the hook for that money, it doesn't take much to then consider why someone would be motivated to approach this unprecedented ecological disaster in that manner.

Thanks.

Originally posted by earthdude
Overfishing and other pollutants are killing the oceans much faster than all the oil spills. We are worried about the wrong thing. I'm having gulf shrimp for dinner, and some said there would be none.

Really can you post the following:

The reciept and packaging identifying your shrimp as Gulf Shrimp.

A continuous video of you taking that Gulf Shrimp directly out of the package, straight to the pot, straight from the pot, straight to a plate, and straight to your mouth?

The Original Poster actually took the time to video document their claims, will you meet the same standard?

If you won't why not?

In aviation oil, disperants are used to keep foreign matter, carbon, etc. SUSPENDED in solution so that they can be filtered. These disperants are no different. The oil has simply been broken up, but it is still suspended in the water.

That means that the coastal areas are going to act like a giant filter for all of it.

Thanks BP!

Originally posted by earthdude
Overfishing and other pollutants are killing the oceans much faster than all the oil spills. We are worried about the wrong thing. I'm having gulf shrimp for dinner, and some said there would be none.

My brother was teaching an economics class at the University here in town. I was talking to him about the supposed oily shrimp catch in south Florida. It was pertinent to his class, so he brought it up. One of the girls in the class comes from a family business of seafood import/export. She said her family could not sell Gulf Shrimp! There was not just one oily catch, but many! They were happening all over the Gulf from TX to Miami.

Also, it is common knowledge to those in the industry that Shrimp is especially easy to take from contaminated areas and then wash and bleach. It happens all the time, despite laws against it.

Enjoy your shrimp, my coast needs your money, but I sure hope you don't regret it later.

I was eating Oysters up to about 2 weeks ago, but I won't be doing it anymore for a couple of years at least!

I can feel your sense of loss & disappointment in what has transpired in your posts. It's like the vulnerability one feels after a home invasion. Only you won't be getting your stuff back when an arrest is made. BP can't give you that day back.

It's to the point I just tune out the damage control reports. How many times can they say 'it's fixed'?

We all want this to be over, 'made right' as they keep saying. I think some where in the heads of those responsible they believe we will all just forget. How can anyone forget the devastation? I'm now deeply concerned for the air we breathe. BP can't make it right.

I will say again, this crisis has just begun. I don't expect to see any level of resolution in my life time.

reply to post by kno22


That is a great analogy. It feels exactly like something has been taken from me, or I have been violated in some way. Something that I used to drive 10-15 hours to experience. Something that I moved to Florida for, something that I looked forward to for days or weeks. Something that has been almost an addiction over the years. I don't feel quite right if I fail to visit for too long of a time. Something that gave me constant comfort and eased my stress and put life in perspective for me, has been taken away.

A trip to the beach has never failed to make me feel better until yesterday. The beach got me through my divorce, it got me through losing prized pets, it got me through hard times when my baby was struggling to survive. It was a sort of last request and visit by my grandmother before she passed away. The beach has always calmed my soul and reminded me of the cyclical nature of life. Now, we are responsible for murdering the very thing that has always provided comfort and sustenance.

Someone is lying!

Now I ask this. Why would Obama take a dip in contaminated water? Or give the illusion he took a dip in contaminated water? With his daughter none less?

Why would he do this? To kill everyone? To give everyone cancer?

Doesn't make sense! Not one Governor has come out to dispute the governments claim that the water is safe. Not one! Not one has come out to support the Joye's claim. Not one!

It's their responsibility but what you guys are saying is they'd rather play with your lives than debunk the government. Is that about right?

You guys can side step this all day but facts are facts. What the OP presented is not a fact. What Georgia is trying to do is justify their research.

Close the beach if it's contaminated.

Originally posted by bikeshedding
reply to post by IgnoranceIsntBlisss

 

Let's see if I can do this too.

If you could cite your source, that would be just super-duper.

Haha I love that word. The only place I ever hear it anymore is on South Park...

40% of the gushing was methane. 'Everyone' knows this.
www.earthfiles.com...

The oil is light sweet crude.
75% of the remaining 60% will be totally evaporated. (VOC's)
20% of that remaining 60% was wax.
3% of that remaining 60% was actual tar & asphalt.
www.mms.gov...

reply to post by CaptChaos


And I've been a charter boat captain for 26 years.

Nothing disputes what the government has said. You show me a independent researcher (that never received grant money for services rendered) then I might listen.

It is very sad state of affairs. I lived in the Tampa bay area for 4 years- returned to NY in oct 2007. I can't imagine seeing oil, discolored water in the areas I use to fish. the gulf beaches are just beautiful. It is hard to take. I venture a guess, that the tampa area/ st pete will really feel it when the fall season comes. A friend of mine living there, says there is a certain smell in the air that just is not normal. BP says they got 75% of the oil- that's crap. It seems to be so sinister. I am afraid that it is.

Originally posted by patriot jim
I venture a guess, that the tampa area/ st pete will really feel it when the fall season comes.

What if it doesn't? Will you come on here and retract this statement?

I'm really gutted to hear this, it makes me want to weep, especially as you were so 'up' about the situation there just the other day.

God knows how much damage is being done below the surface.

This insanity has got to stop?

Originally posted by getreadyalready
reply to post by Rich Z

 

Thanks for your response, and I agree that these beaches are much more "natural." They don't have the beachcombers coming through every morning like Panama City and Destin. They are not lined with Condos and million dollar homes, so they are not taken care of quite as well. That is exactly why I frequent these beaches with my kids. I leave St. George, and Panama City for the tourists.

All that said, there have never been this many conch shells on this beach before. Yes many of the did contain hermit crabs, but the conch still had to die. Also, many of them still contained rotting conch. There were some very disoriented and dying horshoe crabs acting erratically along the waters edge. I have never witnessed that before. There were also many horshoe crab shells lying around. That is somewhat normal, except for the volume of them.

I plan to get a water sample from this site, and visit another of my favorite sites this afternoon.

[edit on 18-8-2010 by getreadyalready]

Originally posted by getreadyalready

Second, let me say that I have lived in this area for 10 years. I am familiar with the normal way the beach looks, the water looks, the wildlife reacts. I am familiar with the seasonal changes. I have ridden out storms, I know what Red Tide and storm damage looks like. I have swam at closed beaches, I have surfed in storm surges, etc., etc.

Normally.......Our beaches are sugary white. The quartz is unique to this area. It leaves the Appalachian Mountains and it is pinkish. It is sun bleached and it is so pure it squeeks when you walk on it. Of all the beaches I have experienced in Cancun, Cozumel, Jamaica, Hawaii, the West Coast, of all of the beaches, the Florida Panhandle is by far the prettiest. It has sugar white, squeeky sand, and beautiful emerald green water, visibility for snorkelers and scuba divers is typically almost 100 ft. There is no place better.

I'm sorry, but I am having trouble reconciling these two apparent quotes from you that appear to be in conflict. No, the beaches of Alligator Point and Bald Point are NOT white sugary sand at all. Matter of fact, at best the beaches are dingy looking. And the water is seldom crystal clear at all. My wife and I have been there enough times to know that. How could you be going to them for 10 years without knowing that fact? You want sugar white sandy beaches, then you need to go to further west or south, as the beaches close to the "arm pit" of Florida are heavily influenced by the runoff from the swamps in this area. The water often has a lot of sediment in it because of this location. That is why my wife and I don't like to go to those beaches. Maybe you consider us "tourists" because we prefer clean white sand and clear water over what is NORMAL for Alligator Point and Bald Point, but truth of the matter is, at least some parts of your description HAVE to be false.

Further, hermit crabs are VERY common on those beaches, and what I saw in your video was not at all unusual. And many times in the past I have seen dead horseshoe crabs washed up on the beach, obviously unrelated to any oil spill issue.

Granted I have never dug into the beach to see what the fill-in water looks like, but quite honestly, just from the muddy content of the water itself, brownish looking water like you have indicated would not surprise me in the least, but as a NATURAL phenomenon, and completely unrelated to any unnatural contamination.

And yeah, I realize that most folks here greatly prefer gloom and doom posts over reality, but I think FACTS need to be considered somewhere in the equation of what your mind should be willing to accept.

Originally posted by Come Clean
reply to post by CaptChaos

 

And I've been a charter boat captain for 26 years.

Nothing disputes what the government has said. You show me a independent researcher (that never received grant money for services rendered) then I might listen.

FOR THE LOVE OF GOD....THE GEORGIA SEA GRANT PROJECT DOES NOT ACCEPT GRANT MONEY AND THEY JUST DISPUTED THE GOV NUMBERS.

Hit the "thread" button on my post.

I have provided LINKS. THEY DONT RUN ON GRANTS..THEY ARE PART OF NOAA - National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration -

I have posted in response to your rubbish claim three times and you keep claiming it again pretending you can't read.

Originally posted by Come Clean
reply to post by CaptChaos

 

And I've been a charter boat captain for 26 years.

Nothing disputes what the government has said. You show me a independent researcher (that never received grant money for services rendered) then I might listen.

Most Charter Boat Captains working in the Gulf are now working for BP.

Are you a Charter Boat Captain in the Gulf of Mexico?

If you ae and it's a commercial enterprise, is there a reason why you can't post videos of the Gulf out on your boat to back up your claims.

Basically you are saying, that you consider no source credible, other than your own opinion, but you are providing no information that makes your opinion any more valued or credible than any other removed third party's opinion.

The OP stepped up to the plate and even showed off pictures of his bare feet!

How about you step up to the plate too.

Go for an ankle!

Out do him!

reply to post by Come Clean



Comeclean, have you been dowon there to see the beach for yourself?

reply to post by Rich Z


That is not true. The "sand" is exactly the same from Bald Point to St. George to Panama City.

There are 2 differences.
1. Bald Point has very little wave action, and it is one of the few "growing" beaches in Florida. Instead of beach erosion, we get beach deposition in this area due to the parallel current along the beach here. On the day I took the video, the current was quite strong!

2. Due to it being a State Park and a Wildlife Refuge area, the beaches are left untainted, which means they don't come through with motorized equipment and rake up seaweed and sea shells.

So, you are correct that these beaches are often a little dirtier looking than the tourist beaches, but you are incorrect about the water quality. Alligator Point and Bald Point typically have crystal clear water and several dozen feet of visibility, sometimes as high as 100 feet of visibility. I have snorkeled along this beach many times.

If you and your wife are somewhat familiar with the beaches there, then I suggest you take a Saturday trip down and see for yourself. There has been a significant change over just the last couple of weeks, and I am sure you will recognize it if you go there and wade around for a few minutes. You won't notice it at first glance, it is only slightly different from a distance, but as you spend some time, you will see that this is not silt and seaweed in the water. This is definitely oil.
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
As for doom and gloom. As Wcitizen mentioned, I have been on the other side of this argument all summer. I have visited Pensacola, FWB, Destin, and Bald Point many times over the summer. I have had Oysters from Apalachicola Bay sitting at the beachside bars. I was devasted to see HookWreck Henry's close (in your town, Crawfordville).

Believe me, I did not want to be pushing Doom and Gloom. I work for the State Government. Loss in Sales Tax, means a likely pay cut or job loss for me! I want to paint the best picture of Florida's beaches as possible, and I have been doing that very thing all summer until now!

[edit on 18-8-2010 by getreadyalready]

reply to post by getreadyalready


Oh stop! Look at this water from August of 2009. It is not crystal clear.

Pay particular attention to the part where the birds are frolicking in th water. Take a look at the discoloration. Take a look at all the seaweed present.

Bald Point has never been a pristine beach.

Tell me, who the heck is going to lay out on that beach?